FAU (1/28/24)

[NT80]

4 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

to the bolded part...yes. and we're doing that. as you mentioned, Allen played 3/4ths the available minutes at the 5. 

that doesn't necessarily mean that those top 5 players start. ideally it's way more important that they finish a game together.  that said...I don't get the value right now in not starting Allen, if for no other reason than maybe a change in roles could benefit Sissoko. 

the year TP was a 6th man, he started behind JJ Murray. Murray would help set a defensive tone, pick up the opponent's top scorer on one end...and usually then the early offense would flow through Abou and Bell to try to get them both squarely in the game before TP game in guns-blazing. more often than not the closing 5 was TP-Bell-Abou-Rubin-Drez. 

I think clearly the same thought process went into how Edwards role was being thought of before the injuries forced him into the starting 5. 

everyone being healthy and eligible all season, I think the ideal starting 5 would've been Rubin-Noland-Walker-Scott-Allen...enough scoring for 3-4 minutes early...tons of length and athleticism on defense...then Edwards and Buggs rotating in with that backcourt 3.

my hope for next season is that we do sign a Javion/Woolridge-ish true PG and Edwards is a dangerous catalyst off the bench

 

Sure, you want a good group on the floor to finish out a close game.  But that's not as important if it's not a close game. 

The start of the game, in my opinion, is the most important of the game.  It sets the tone of the game!  You can put doubt into your opponent, sometimes even takes them out of their game plan early if you build a significant enough advantage.  The starters should be your best players.  

[BigWillie]

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

Based on limited viewing, I agree with the announcers that Davis is the best player in the conference.

He is their TP

[greenminer]

15 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Lot of bitching for a team that has performed way above expected.

 

I've seen enough to expect this team to perform way above expected lol

Edited January 30 by greenminer

[Censored by Laurie]

11 hours ago, Matt from A700 said:

With us losing at least Allen, I want to see us bring in a big man (6'10" or taller) that can efficiently score in the paint. Someone that can force other teams to double him in the paint and get more open shots for our good 3-point shooters. Though admittedly I don't know how many guys like that we're available in the portal this year, and how many we could realistically land.

oh for sure priority number one needs to be replacing Allen. what a find he's been...A+ to the coaching/scouting staff. I don't recall a big man with better hands here in my 20+ years following UNT basketball.

Allen and Rubin are the only two players out of eligibility at the end of the year...but we're only on 12 scholarships so we'll have three to give assuming no transfers out (kinda hope we have one/two transfer out). Taylor and Mason are coming in...so if there is just the one to give, then I'm with you on it needs to go to a transfer portal big. gotta then hope either Taylor or Moore can slide into significant minutes at the point. 

[Censored by Laurie]

10 hours ago, NT80 said:

The starters should be your best players.  

I don't know what to tell you save that decades of basketball coaches disagree. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

10 hours ago, NT80 said:

Sure, you want a good group on the floor to finish out a close game.  But that's not as important if it's not a close game. 

The start of the game, in my opinion, is the most important of the game.  It sets the tone of the game!  You can put doubt into your opponent, sometimes even takes them out of their game plan early if you build a significant enough advantage.  The starters should be your best players.  

Like we've seen over the past few seasons with JJ Murray starting over Tylor Perry, the starters should be the ones who will best set the coach's desired tone for the early stages of the game.   In JJ/TP's case, obviously coach McCasland and coach Hodge wanted a defensive tone.   Then, when they feel the game is going as desired, or we're falling behind & need a sparkplug, sub JJ, and insert TP.

Likewise, at the end of the game, if NT is holding a lead & need stops, insert JJ to lock them down.
If NT is in a slugfest/shootout at the end of the game, keep TP in to hit clutch shots.

You're just using your personnel's strengths to accomplish the desired results.   "Best Players start", works most times, but not all the time.

[Censored by Laurie]

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Like we've seen over the past few seasons with JJ Murray starting over Tylor Perry, the starters should be the ones who will best set the coach's desired tone for the early stages of the game.   In JJ/TP's case, obviously coach McCasland and coach Hodge wanted a defensive tone.   Then, when they feel the game is going as desired, or we're falling behind & need a sparkplug, sub JJ, and insert TP.

Likewise, at the end of the game, if NT is holding a lead & need stops, insert JJ to lock them down.
If NT is in a slugfest/shootout at the end of the game, keep TP in to hit clutch shots.

You're just using your personnel's strengths to accomplish the desired results.   "Best Players start", works most times, but not all the time.

and it's historically typically been a TP/Edwards type player...a player with a point guard frame/handle but a scorer's mentality. Jet Terry, Jamal Crawford, Sweet Lou Williams all leap to mind

[NT80]

2 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

I don't know what to tell you save that decades of basketball coaches disagree. 

Not sure what games you're watching.  The strategy is no different from football or soccer or any team sport playing the best players (starters) from the beginning of the game.  You don't sit Tom Brady, Luka, or Messi till the second quarter to bring them into the game.

[MeanGreenTexan]

10 minutes ago, NT80 said:

Not sure what games you're watching.  The strategy is no different from football or soccer or any team sport playing the best players (starters) from the beginning of the game.  You don't sit Tom Brady, Luka, or Messi till the second quarter to bring them into the game.

I don't think it ever took TP 10 minutes to come into the game... unless JJ was playing out of his mind & we were cruising, say, against weaker teams.  Even then, it would likely be time for JJ to have a breather anyway.

I think we can all agree (well, maybe?) that Coach Hodge's style is not common. 
He's not playing the fast-paced, high-scoring, transition ball like a lot of other schools.   So with different styles comes different needs. 
Not everything is cookie-cutter... and I'm glad it's not, because in NT b-ball's case, it's so fun to watch the frustration levels of opposing teams crank up throughout the games when the pace is not to their liking.

[Censored by Laurie]

25 minutes ago, NT80 said:

Not sure what games you're watching.  The strategy is no different from football or soccer or any team sport playing the best players (starters) from the beginning of the game.  You don't sit Tom Brady, Luka, or Messi till the second quarter to bring them into the game.

A. we're talking about basketball. it is different than those other sports, for a variety of reasons. 
B. no one is arguing that your "best" player shouldn't be starting. we're arguing that your "5 best" players need not be. 

Jet Terry started 10 games in the Mav's championship season. he was the team's second leading scorer. 
THJ has started 9 games this season. he's the Mav's third leading scorer. (though if ego didn't play a role, I'd make the case that Kai would be more an ideal 6th man)

my dude, there's a literal award for coming off the bench. doubt you can make a case for any of these players being only the 6th best player on the roster. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Sixth_Man_of_the_Year_Award

since I'm sensing just another double-down and probably another terrible analogy, I'm done after this post. 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

4 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

I don't know what to tell you save that decades of basketball coaches disagree. 

Yeah, you gotta have juice off the bench. Otherwise, you're going to war with 1 magazine. 

[NT80]

1 hour ago, Censored by Laurie said:

A. we're talking about basketball. it is different than those other sports, for a variety of reasons. 
B. no one is arguing that your "best" player shouldn't be starting. we're arguing that your "5 best" players need not be. 

Jet Terry started 10 games in the Mav's championship season. he was the team's second leading scorer. 
THJ has started 9 games this season. he's the Mav's third leading scorer. (though if ego didn't play a role, I'd make the case that Kai would be more an ideal 6th man)

my dude, there's a literal award for coming off the bench. doubt you can make a case for any of these players being only the 6th best player on the roster. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Sixth_Man_of_the_Year_Award

since I'm sensing just another double-down and probably another terrible analogy, I'm done after this post. 

Other sports have good backups too… but there is a reason they are backups and not starters.  Basketball is no different, unless a coach tries to make it different. But it’s certainly not the way a majority of the coaches do it.  There is a label for thirteenth player on a basketball team too. = bench warmer. 

[HoosMeanGreen]

4 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

In JJ/TP's case, obviously coach McCasland and coach Hodge wanted a defensive tone.   Then, when they feel the game is going as desired, or we're falling behind & need a sparkplug, sub JJ, and insert TP.

If it’s a lie, then “he” (Hoo is he?) told it - TP asked to come off the bench his first year. It had zero to do with McCasland setting a “defensive tone” to start a game.

Does that fun fact change any argument?

[CMJ]

There are numerous examples of bench players being as good, if not better, than some of the starters.  I remember about 30 years ago that Tulane had a team where they went ten deep and their second five outscored their starters on the season.

[NT80]

3 minutes ago, CMJ said:

There are numerous examples of bench players being as good, if not better, than some of the starters.  I remember about 30 years ago that Tulane had a team where they went ten deep and their second five outscored their starters on the season.

It’s not the normal strategy in any sport. 

[CMJ]

2 hours ago, NT80 said:

It’s not the normal strategy in any sport. 

It happens in basketball more than you'd think. Hell, in hockey sometimes your second line scores more than your first, or your third more than the second. 

 

Sure in football it isn't normal and in baseball it isn't either -- though with pitchers nowadays some teams have the best arms in the bullpen.

Edited January 30 by CMJ

[MeanGreenTexan]

2 minutes ago, HoosMeanGreen said:

If it’s a lie, then “he” (Hoo is he?) told it - TP asked to come off the bench his first year. It had zero to do with McCasland setting a “defensive tone” to start a game.

Does that fun fact change any argument?

I'm well aware of the circumstances around TP coming off the bench in '21-'22.  There are plenty of interviews about it (because it was so weird after TP showed how dominant he could be) where all 3 guys explained it.   
JJ was a returning Senior and team captain.   
TP had just got here & hadn't earned anything yet.
JJ started the season over TP.   It worked well in setting the defensive tone of the games.
McCasland approached Tylor about starting, because he had earned it after a few games. 
TP basically said, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.", McCasland agreed, and so he continued to come off the bench.  Sometimes that stint was for several minutes to start the games.   Sometimes, it wasn't but a couple times up & down the floor.

Every team is different.   That's what makes it so fun!

[HoosMeanGreen]

Well that clears up another myth. I was told that once a starting lineup is set, it only changes due to illness or injury - it’s the North Texas way. If McCasland approached Perry after a few games, because he earned the right to start, then the myth is just that - a myth. 
 

And here I was thinking that Allen wasn’t starting because of “The North Texas Way”. 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

4 minutes ago, HoosMeanGreen said:

Well that clears up another myth. I was told that once a starting lineup is set, it only changes due to illness or injury - it’s the North Texas way. If McCasland approached Perry after a few games, because he earned the right to start, then the myth is just that - a myth. 
 

And here I was thinking that Allen wasn’t starting because of “The North Texas Way”. 

Ladies and gentlemen, this is word soup. Lot's of statements with no verifiable meaning in hopes of providing rationale to the populace. A tactful approach used in politics. 

In short, bullshit. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

11 minutes ago, HoosMeanGreen said:

Well that clears up another myth. I was told that once a starting lineup is set, it only changes due to illness or injury - it’s the North Texas way. If McCasland approached Perry after a few games, because he earned the right to start, then the myth is just that - a myth. 
 

And here I was thinking that Allen wasn’t starting because of “The North Texas Way”. 

I don't get you dude.  Do you have an axe to grind w/Hodge?   
Maybe Hodge is starting Moulaye over Allen because it's "The North Texas Way" (I dunno where that came from).   It's his ship now. 
If it's working, why change it?  Allen is certainly still eating.   And obviously, he's out there in crunch time... at the end of the game (which is what this discussion was about, originally).

[Matt from A700]

My opinion, ideally my 6th man is no less than my third leading scorer, like Hardaway Jr.

If he's the #1 scorer, then someone else probably needs to take his spot on the bench.

[HoosMeanGreen]

7 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Ladies and gentlemen, this is word soup. Lot's of statements with no verifiable meaning in hopes of providing rationale to the populace. A tactful approach used in politics. 

In short, bullshit. 

Let me help you out Grandpa, I attend UNT today, not yesteryear! I know and you assume. 75% of your assumptions are 100% wrong. Stop having the need to be right and you could learn something. 
 

Your reply was that of a fool and it will be proven sooner than you know.

[HoosMeanGreen]

7 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I don't get you dude.  Do you have an axe to grind w/Hodge?   
Maybe Hodge is starting Moulaye over Allen because it's "The North Texas Way" (I dunno where that came from).   It's his ship now. 
If it's working, why change it?  Allen is certainly still eating.   And obviously, he's out there in crunch time... at the end of the game (which is what this discussion was about, originally).

No axe to grind with CRH. He is learning on the job. Listen to his pressers - he admits it. I admire that he does.

[DeepGreen]

1 hour ago, HoosMeanGreen said:

Let me help you out Grandpa, I attend UNT today, not yesteryear! I know and you assume. 75% of your assumptions are 100% wrong. Stop having the need to be right and you could learn something. 
 

Your reply was that of a fool and it will be proven sooner than you know.

Hey, that’s a pretty damn rude post.😒

[greenminer]

1 hour ago, HoosMeanGreen said:

Listen to his pressers - he admits it. I admire that he does.

Coach speak. I think he’s humble and learning, but that presser stuff is full of coach speak.