BYU Begging for the Big XII

[wardly]

B.Y.U. wants to keep its T.V. contract as part of it's overall religious outreach, which is only allowed in the Big 12.If the conference were to add 2, they would be wise to look at Houston, as the Big 12 lost it's foothold when A&M moved to S.E.C. That's a huge market with no presence, and the Cougars are on the upswing with a new football stadium and good teams.

[untjim1995]

A few things on this thread that I want to comment on.

1.) Baylor--they have been financing their new stadium and new facilities to improve their program, but also as a way to sue the hell out of anyone who causes the big XII to lose AQ status (see Texas and/or Oklahoma) for breach of contract--"We only built these facilites up because we were in an AQ conference. Not being in one now will cause great financial stress to our institution. We will see you in court."

2.) BYU--their network would be just fine in the Big XII as long as the LHN is around in its current form. I still think they'll find their way into the conference before too long. They'd be a great addition, something the Big XII desperately needs right now. The Big XII in football is currently looked at as the worst AQ conference, since only Texas and OU have any national attraction in football. Add Kansas in for basketball, and that's basically it. The ACC has Notre Dame (basically), FSU and Miami in football, and UNC, Duke, Syracuse, and Louisville in hoops as national programs. The B1G has national programs in Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Nebraska, and Wisconsin in football and Michigan State and Indiana in hoops. The SEC has A&M, LSU, Arkansas, Auburn, Alabama, Tennessee, Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina as national brands in football and then Kentucky in basketball. The Pac-12 has Oregon, USC, and Stanford right now as national names in football, with UCLA and Arizona in hoops. Getting BYu would giuve the Big XII a great program to grab national attention in football. Then I'd get Cincinatti, so that they can be a travel partner for WVU in the east and get a salty hoops program, as well. They will need to do that to get their league back up to par with the others in the AQ setup.

3.) Houston will never get an invite to the Big XII as long as UT is in it. Texas will never cede over that area to help UH ever again--they learned from the SWC days that this was not in their best interests. Sure, the Aggies have even more control in that city, but UT ain't far behind. UH is basically stuck in the non-AQ leagues, just like almost everyone else unless UT leaves and the conference got to stay AQ (not a chance in hell of that happening--see Big East/AAC). The non-AQ teams that have a chance to get into the AQ conferences are BYU, UConn, Cincinnati, and then maybe one of the USF/UCF programs. The Big XII has room, whereas the others really don't. the Pac-12 will only expand if they can get some Big XII teams to come over, otherwise, no other non-AQ will get consideration out west. The SEC will only look at adding teams from the ACC at this point that aren't in their states already (see North Carolina or Virginia schools like NC State and Va Tech), so no non-AQs there. The B1G only goes after AAU schools and TV markets now, so they might change things to get UConn, who isn't an AAU school, but would bring in some NE markets. The ACC might go hard after UConn or Cincinatti if anyone ever leaves their league to go to the SEC or the B1G. Otherwise, its up to the Big XII to look at some other non-AQs, which is why I could see a combo of BYU, Cincy, USF, and UCF getting added.

[Ben Gooding]

So when is North Texas getting an invite? Also the SEC has UK and Fla as their elite basketball programs. Lastly, when is North Texas getting an invite?

[wardly]

If Texas blocks Houston,then Cincy makes more sense to me than a 2nd tier Florida school.

[UNTexas]

If Texas blocks Houston,then Cincy makes more sense to me than a 2nd tier Florida school.

Why would Texas not want Houston? It would be damn near a home game for them because tons of their fans would show up in Houston and it's not like they don't have history playing each other. Cincinnati? Who wants to travel to Cincinnati? Texas shouldn't want Cincinnati.

That being said, BYU would be competitive immediately in the Big 12 and would be a fine addition to any conference. I'm no fanboy of their way of life because I love alcohol and debauchery but this is sports y'all! I know some people don't like them for whatever their reasons but they have fielded some really good sports teams in the past. I grew up watching them in football and basketball and they can hang with anyone. I do believe in playing regional opponents though and they are pretty far out west.

[forevereagle]

Why would Texas not want Houston? It would be damn near a home game for them because tons of their fans would show up in Houston and it's not like they don't have history playing each other. Cincinnati? Who wants to travel to Cincinnati? Texas shouldn't want Cincinnati.

That being said, BYU would be competitive immediately in the Big 12 and would be a fine addition to any conference. I'm no fanboy of their way of life because I love alcohol and debauchery but this is sports y'all! I know some people don't like them for whatever their reasons but they have fielded some really good sports teams in the past. I grew up watching them in football and basketball and they can hang with anyone. I do believe in playing regional opponents though and they are pretty far out west.

Will they be competitive in the Big 12 the same way that TCU was immediately competitive in the Big 12?

Edited June 13, 2014 by forevereagle

[UNTexas]

Will they be competitive in the Big 12 the same way that TCU was immediately competitive in the Big 12?

Well without laying the sarcasm in too much they are no TCU and it's a stupid comparison. Off the top of my head BYU beat the crap out of the University of Texas just last season in Football and TCU was stomped by Texas, BYU has a National Championship under their belt in Football, and BYU had a Heisman Trophy winner in Ty Detmer in the recent past. It's not a bad resume to get into a conference. So to answer your question, no, they are no TCU.

[forevereagle]

Well without laying the sarcasm in too much they are no TCU and it's a stupid comparison. Off the top of my head BYU beat the crap out of the University of Texas just last season in Football and TCU was stomped by Texas, BYU has a National Championship under their belt in Football, and BYU had a Heisman Trophy winner in Ty Detmer in the recent past. It's not a bad resume to get into a conference. So to answer your question, no, they are no TCU.

I think that a 1984 national championship is likely as relevant to the Big 12 as the two that TCU has from the 30s. And to say that a 1990 Heisman is recent past is probably misleading. TCU has had more finalists recently than BYU, the most recent in 2010. That is more relevant than one win almost 25 years ago. UT struggled last year, so a win over them is not as impressive as it sounds. Sure, BYU has an impressive resume, but they are pretty comparable with TCU. It is not easy to make the jump to the Big 12 and play the schedule that is required there. BYU might struggle some, but I do think that they could make the adjustment to the league.

[UNTexas]

I think that a 1984 national championship is likely as relevant to the Big 12 as the two that TCU has from the 30s. And to say that a 1990 Heisman is recent past is probably misleading. TCU has had more finalists recently than BYU, the most recent in 2010. That is more relevant than one win almost 25 years ago. UT struggled last year, so a win over them is not as impressive as it sounds. Sure, BYU has an impressive resume, but they are pretty comparable with TCU. It is not easy to make the jump to the Big 12 and play the schedule that is required there. BYU might struggle some, but I do think that they could make the adjustment to the league.

TCU and BYU are similar if National Championships don't matter. Most schools would kill for just one at any point. They'd flaunt it too. I promise my Aggie friends would be talking about any championship forever. UTEP dang sure talks about their basketball title.

To say beating Texas last year counts for nothing is absurd. Texas would destroy most college teams on an up or down year. Fact is this: BYU hung 40 on UT to win and TCU mustered 7 in a loss. Win versus loss. You can't really argue the facts. Are they ready to compete was your original question. Yes.

UT was 8-5 and 7-2 in conference and it's an off year? If that's the case then our season last year was crap too. It's laughable how people think they sucked because they weren't in the hunt for a national title.

Edited June 13, 2014 by UNTexas

[Ben Gooding]

TCU and BYU are similar if National Championships don't matter. Most schools would kill for just one at any point. They'd flaunt it too. I promise my Aggie friends would be talking about any championship forever. UTEP dang sure talks about their basketball title.

To say beating Texas last year counts for nothing is absurd. Texas would destroy most college teams on an up or down year. Fact is this: BYU hung 40 on UT to win and TCU mustered 7 in a loss. Win versus loss. You can't really argue the facts. Are they ready to compete was your original question. Yes.

UT was 8-5 and 7-2 in conference and it's an off year? If that's the case then our season last year was crap too. It's laughable how people think they sucked because they weren't in the hunt for a national title.

Texas did suck last year. They got trounced by BYU and then a week later get dominated in Austin against Ole Miss. Few weeks later they get dominated by OK St. They had to take WVU to OT to beat them. They had one good win this past season and most if not all of the people that pay close attention would agree that it was a surprise victory against Oklahoma. GMG

[forevereagle]

TCU and BYU are similar if National Championships don't matter. Most schools would kill for just one at any point. They'd flaunt it too. I promise my Aggie friends would be talking about any championship forever. UTEP dang sure talks about their basketball title.

To say beating Texas last year counts for nothing is absurd. Texas would destroy most college teams on an up or down year. Fact is this: BYU hung 40 on UT to win and TCU mustered 7 in a loss. Win versus loss. You can't really argue the facts. Are they ready to compete was your original question. Yes.

UT was 8-5 and 7-2 in conference and it's an off year? If that's the case then our season last year was crap too. It's laughable how people think they sucked because they weren't in the hunt for a national title.

Yes, I would argue that NCs from 30+ years ago are not really relevant to the discussion. Sure, you can claim that you have one, and rightfully so, but that doesn't make it relevant to today. Not to belabor the point, but TCU has two to BYU's one.

I didn't say that they sucked, but that Texas team was not the same one that it has been in the past. Their record is helped by a down year overall in the Big 12, though they did pull off a win over OU. ISU, KU, and WVU were all bad (so was TCU) and they drew TT at the end of the season when they fell apart.

Sure, BYU won at home, but early in the season, that Texas team was a disaster. They didn't pick up the pieces until they started conference play.

BYU was 8-5 last year and did not play the same kind of schedule that they would in the Big 12. They were beat by an awful Virginia (2-10) and Utah (5-7). Texas was, by far, their signature win and they didn't really get close to another win like that for the rest of the season.

Your argument is that BYU is more prepared to compete in the Big 12 than TCU was in their first season. Prior to joining the Big 12 in 2012, TCU was 11-2. If one were to assume that BYU were joining for the upcoming season, their record was 8-5. That seems to be a better comparison than to compare what BYU did last season as an independent to what TCU did last season playing in the Big 12 and not one that favors their ability to compete immediately.

To further the more recent and relevant resumes, TCU played in two BCS bowls to BYU's none. I am just not convinced that BYU would be able to just step in and compete in the Big 12. They might be able to figure it out, but they may also just fall off as TCU has in the Big 12 (7-6 in year one and 4-8 in year two).

[UNT90]

Seems some are forgetting that perfect season, Rose Bowl championship (over a good Wisconsin team), and #2 final ranking TCU threw down 3 or 4 years ago.

Are they struggle with the competition adjustment? Yes, but they will eventually be fine. The City of Fort Worth is COMPLETELY behind them, as are many Fort Worth residence, some of whom attended UNT...

If only the City of Denton cared for UNT 1/150 the amount of what Fort Worth does for TCU...

Edited June 13, 2014 by UNT90

[Ben Gooding]

Seems some are forgetting that perfect season, Rose Bowl championship (over a good Wisconsin team), and #2 final ranking TCU threw down 3 or 4 years ago.

Are they struggle with the competition adjustment? Yes, but they will eventually be fine. The City of Fort Worth is COMPLETELY behind them, as are many Fort Worth residence, some of whom attended UNT...

If only the City of Denton cared for UNT 1/150 the amount of what Fort Worth does for TCU...

The culture in Fort Worth and Denton simply aren't the same. Priorities are in different places and it's a shame. A lot of UNT students and alum are not sports minded kind of people. Some/A lot of UNT students and Alum that are football or sports minded happen to be band-wagoners and that to me is just disgusting, but that's just the way it is. Have more than one winning season and make an honest marketing effort to bring those band-wagoners to Denton on Saturdays is the only thing we can really do. It's an absolute damn shame that TCU/UT and at times even SMU BS apparel is still being spotted regularly around campus. I make comments as fast as I can when I see that crap. If people want to rep other schools' crap, drop out of North Texas and go attend those schools. Otherwise burn that crap and get some green. The culture really needs a jolt to it. I hate to keep pushing the idea of us being an art/music school, but that is honest to God the thing that is hurting us. Most people that are art/music type of people simply are not into football or sports in general. Our largest 2 departments are art and music. So it's a trend that is a hindrance to our push forward into becoming a better athletic university. This isn't a bash on people that are or have been in pursuit towards an art/music degree. It's just the way it is. GMG

[greenminer]

Texas did suck last year. They got trounced by BYU and then a week later get dominated in Austin against Ole Miss. Few weeks later they get dominated by OK St. They had to take WVU to OT to beat them. They had one good win this past season and most if not all of the people that pay close attention would agree that it was a surprise victory against Oklahoma. GMG

Losses to Ole Miss, Okie State and BYU is your argument for Texas being terrible? I would contend that those teams were pretty freaking good, and some of their losses (BYU to UTAH/Virginia, Ole Miss to Miss State and OkieState to WVU) were surprises, too.

I think Texas had a down year, but saying they sucked seems like a reach. To me, "suck" means not only way below expectations but also 3 wins or less.

[greenminer]

The culture in Fort Worth and Denton simply aren't the same. Priorities are in different places and it's a shame. A lot of UNT students and alum are not sports minded kind of people. Some/A lot of UNT students and Alum that are football or sports minded happen to be band-wagoners and that to me is just disgusting, but that's just the way it is. Have more than one winning season and make an honest marketing effort to bring those band-wagoners to Denton on Saturdays is the only thing we can really do. It's an absolute damn shame that TCU/UT and at times even SMU BS apparel is still being spotted regularly around campus. I make comments as fast as I can when I see that crap. If people want to rep other schools' crap, drop out of North Texas and go attend those schools. Otherwise burn that crap and get some green. The culture really needs a jolt to it. I hate to keep pushing the idea of us being an art/music school, but that is honest to God the thing that is hurting us. Most people that are art/music type of people simply are not into football or sports in general. Our largest 2 departments are art and music. So it's a trend that is a hindrance to our push forward into becoming a better athletic university. This isn't a bash on people that are or have been in pursuit towards an art/music degree. It's just the way it is. GMG

fun (OT) read: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/11/fort-worth-letter-from-cowtown-hip-city/9962451/

Edited June 13, 2014 by greenminer

[wardly]

Baylor didn't keep us out of the SW Conference. We just didn't have a sponsor, similar to TCU being left behind when Big 12 was created.

[Ben Gooding]

fun (OT) read: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/11/fort-worth-letter-from-cowtown-hip-city/9962451/

OK. A scratch on the surface. Cultures are different, particularly at each university. Edited June 14, 2014 by Ben Gooding