The SBC will kill our program...

[rjmunthe]

And eventually shove us back to the FCS. Students and alumni don't want to see the freaking Hilltoppers come play. When your opposing team brings five fans total, your opposing team lives too far away. The SBC is just slaughtering our program, and has since we left Southland. This is completely ridiculous. I mean, there's no rivalries with these schools, and ALL the students laugh/joke around about the schools we play because no one's ever heard of them. Furthermore, unless we start tearing it up in the Sun Belt for years, attendance won't rise. People laugh and put us down when we play WKU or FIU or ULL. There are only two schools that are well known nationally. Us, as NTSU, and Troy. I could care less if we went to the WAC or even went back down to Southland. At least I'd care about who we're playing.

Edited November 20, 2011 by rjmunthe

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

Dumpsalot's protege?

[emmitt01]

And eventually shove us back to the FCS. Students and alumni don't want to see the freaking Hilltoppers come play. When your opposing team brings five fans total, your opposing team lives too far away. The SBC is just slaughtering our program, and has since we left Southland. This is completely ridiculous. I mean, there's no rivalries with these schools, and ALL the students laugh/joke around about the schools we play because no one's ever heard of them. Furthermore, unless we start tearing it up in the Sun Belt for years, attendance won't rise. People laugh and put us down when we play WKU or FIU or ULL. There are only two schools that are well known nationally. Us, as NTSU, and Troy. I could care less if we went to the WAC or even went back down to Southland. At least I'd care about who we're playing.

The Sun Belt has killed us since the SLC? Wow...a bit unfair to blame the Belt for the years we were in the Big West. Then again, I guess historical accuracy shouldn't stand in the way of histrionics though.

[rjmunthe]

The Sun Belt has killed us since the SLC? Wow...a bit unfair to blame the Belt for the years we were in the Big West. Then again, I guess historical accuracy shouldn't stand in the way of histrionics though.

Were we not in the SLC before the Belt? The Sun Belt is making people apathetic and our program a joke.

[Green Mean]

Were we not in the SLC before the Belt? The Sun Belt is making people apathetic and our program a joke.

I've never been the biggest fan of the Sunbelt but don't blame the conference for our 7 years of god awful suckdom. It's like blaming SMU for our historical track record of sucking and not advancing our athletic programs. Get real.

[Green P1]

Wrong. Losing in the Belt is killing us.

[rjmunthe]

Completely not wrong. Go take a poll of people's opinions of the schools we play. Bringing ten fans along? Completely ridiculous. Why was the attendance so good at Houston and Indiana, then? Because people know these schools. I'd put $50 on a bet that if we played Texas State, UTEP, UTSA, or even U of H again we'd break 25K again. A decent football team versus teams people know=recipe for good attendance.

Edited November 20, 2011 by rjmunthe

[Harry]

Wrong. Losing in the Belt is killing us.

Bingo!

[rjmunthe]

I get what you are saying. I agree with the fact that people are not interested in seeing us play the likes of FAU and ULM. I get it. But the Sun Belt is not our problem.

Our problem is us.

UNT should not have to rely on others schools' fans to fill our stadium. We have a very small stadium, especially considering our student population, size of local alumni base, and number of residents in Denton. Apogee should be the toughest ticket in town. Our students and alumni base alone should be clamoring for seats. And it should not matter who we play.

The regional team argument is losing steam for me. We opened one of the nicest stadiums in the country with a regional, highly-regarded opponent as still didn't hit a sellout. I think it was only the 3rd largest crowd for an on-campus game. That is pretty sad. We no longer have the "Fouts is holding us back" argument to fall back upon. We hired an experienced coach, built a palace of a stadium, and brought in a regional opponent. Still can't fill a game.

This tells me the problem isn't our conference. We get solid crowds for more well-known opponents, to be sure. But if we get into CUSA or MWC, what will those crowds look like in November and December when the novelty of playing better opponents has worn off?

Maybe winning is the final step. Winning in another conference? I don't know. I do know that winning the SBC four years in a row didn't do it. The new stadium and winning? Probably a good combination.

But I do know this. It all starts with changing the culture of UNT. We have to reconnect with those alumni that haven't thought twice about UNT since graduating. Send them all a free ticket or a 2 for 1 coupon for football and/or basketball. We are making the right steps with our new students, but frankly I don't know that we have the time to wait for them to graduate and start earning. We need some immediate alumni support from those that have forgotten about UNT. Things are headed in the right direction. But I just hope that 30 years of neglect and apathy towards athletics has not left us with too large of a hole to dig ourselves out of. The Dr. Hurleys of the world have put us in a dark place.

Sorry for the Plumm-like rant. The bottom line is this: UNT students and alumni should come to UNT game because it is their school, not because of the name on the other teams jersy.

Winning + Playing regional opponents + not playing WKUs and FAUs = good attendance. None of which we have accomplished. Look at UH as a good example. Historically terrible attendance. Move to CUSA...little jump...around 22/23K...they start winning...sell out.

You can neg me all you want. These are facts. This is simple and proven. Look, accept it or not, we don't have a strong enough fan base for alumni on the fence to go to the game when they look at the ticket and see "Middle Tennessee State University" as our opponent. They just look at the ticket and go "WTF LOL". My pitch to some of my girlfriend's friends to get them in the gate was "We're not half bad..." Their response: "Who are we playing?" My response: "Western Kentucky." Their response: "Who?"

Everyone keeps bringing up the Dickey years and the poor attendance. Well, let me tell you this..."DUH." This proves my argument.

Edited November 20, 2011 by rjmunthe

[FirefightnRick]

The SBC is just slaughtering our program, and has since we left Southland.

Says the person who missed the 10-15,000 Mean Green fans that gathered in New Orleans on a TUESDAY NIGHT, four years in a row.

Rick

Edited November 20, 2011 by FirefightnRick

[rjmunthe]

Says the person who missed the 10-15,000 Mean Green fans that gathered in New Orleans on a TUESDAY NIGHT, four years in a row.

Rick

What does that really have to do with anything? UNT has a core die-hard fan base of 13,000 who go to the game no matter what and would go to New Orleans to watch us at a bowl game.

Edited November 20, 2011 by rjmunthe

[MeanMag]

And eventually shove us back to the FCS. Students and alumni don't want to see the freaking Hilltoppers come play. When your opposing team brings five fans total, your opposing team lives too far away. The SBC is just slaughtering our program, and has since we left Southland. This is completely ridiculous. I mean, there's no rivalries with these schools, and ALL the students laugh/joke around about the schools we play because no one's ever heard of them. Furthermore, unless we start tearing it up in the Sun Belt for years, attendance won't rise. People laugh and put us down when we play WKU or FIU or ULL. There are only two schools that are well known nationally. Us, as NTSU, and Troy. I could care less if we went to the WAC or even went back down to Southland. At least I'd care about who we're playing.

The WAC and Southland are even more terrible. You're right, we need to get out of this conference. But we have to start beating the teams in it like they just slept with your sister. Especially the ULM, ULL, WKU, MTSU, FAU, FIU of the world. Ark St and Troy, for some reason are the only 2 other schools they seem to recognize.

[rjmunthe]

The WAC and Southland are even more terrible. You're right, we need to get out of this conference. But we have to start beating the teams in it like they just slept with your sister. Especially the ULM, ULL, WKU, MTSU, FAU, FIU of the world. Ark St and Troy, for some reason are the only 2 other schools they seem to recognize.

The WAC would have Texas State, UTSA and a few other well-known regional schools. Southland may be terrible but we drew when playing it. I'm not really for SLC. Just stating a point. I realize it's a down-step to the WAC. But moving down there to win better and dominate while bringing up attendance will work. Not to mention the WAC doesn't have to have as many money games as the damn Sun Belt. I don't see us moving to the MWC or CUSA.

Edited November 20, 2011 by rjmunthe

[FirefightnRick]

What does that really have to do with anything? UNT has a core die-hard fan base of 13,000 who go to the game no matter what and would go to New Orleans to watch us at a bowl game.

I assume that since your claiming the Sunbelt will be the end of our program that your new around here and missed out on what happens when we actually field a winning team.

But then you supported with facts against your own claim, so I guess you do get it.

We do have a solid core of about 8 to 10,000 fans that turn out rain or shine, Tuesday or Saturday. We saw them there last night(No way in hell there was more than 10k there last night). If we want more we have to field a winning team.

Stop crying about the Belt. It's helped us get where we are now. New Stadium, more money in the program and a beautifully restored smoothbore, 6 pound cannon that the few who showed up in red last night won't soon forget.

Rick

Edited November 20, 2011 by FirefightnRick

[Rudy]

Why was the attendance so good at Houston and Indiana, then?

Houston is in CUSA, not the WAC, and currently, a perennial Top 25 program

Indiana, although bad this year, is in a BCS AQ conference.

You really think people will give a rat's ass for Idaho? We used to be in a conference with them. People didn't care then either.

AS other's have said, it's our sucking that is killing us. When we were winning in the early 2000's, people showed up for MTSU and NMSU (who was in our conference at the time) because we had a bit of a rivalry. Did we have 25K? No. Part of that was that the SBC had just started sponsoring football and we were in Fout's. If we still had the MTSU antics that they pulled in 2001-2003, were winning, and played them in Apogee, I say we got 20K at least.

If you want to say the Belt is "killing" us, take a look at the MAC crowds on ESPN or even some of the CUSA crowds.

[rjmunthe]

I assume that since your claiming the Sunbelt will be the end of our program that your new around here and missed out on what happens when we actually field a winning team.

But then you supported with facts against your own claim, so I guess you do get it.

We do have a solid core of about 8 to 10,000 fans that turn out rain or shine, Tuesday or Saturday. We saw them there last night(No way in hell there was more than 10k there last night). If we want more we have to field a winning team.

Stop crying about the Belt. It's helped us get where we are now. New Stadium, more money in the program and a beautifully restored smoothbore, 6 pound cannon that the few who showed up in red last night won't soon forget.

Rick

Fielding a winning team in the Sun Belt...15-18K attendance. Difference now? Nothing.

If you were at the game, then you'd realize there were about 17K at the game. A little less than homecoming.

The Belt hasn't helped us do anything other be disrespected and increase our irrelevance in the D/FW market. We will never move up because conferences go "UNT has the D/FW market" then see on all the websites us at the very bottom with one or two stories and any research will prove to you that we don't. Why? Because we play teams no one cares about. We play Indiana. Everyone knows Indiana. Even though we lost one game in typical UNT fashion and one in heartbreaking fashion, we still draw 20K+. Idaho, yeah, no one knows them or really cares. Texas State, UTSA, etc. people do know them. New Mexico? Yeah, they suck but people know them. Shall I go on?

Go ask people about the opponents we play. No one knows/cares. Even alumni. Those are the people we need to sway. Like it or not, WKU/MTSU aren't getting that done.

MAC crowds still have 20K+ in much smaller markets.

Edited November 20, 2011 by rjmunthe

[MeanMag]

Fielding a winning team in the Sun Belt...15-18K attendance. Difference now? Nothing.

If you were at the game, then you'd realize there were about 17K at the game. A little less than homecoming.

The Belt hasn't helped us do anything other be disrespected and increase our irrelevance in the D/FW market. We will never move up because conferences go "UNT has the D/FW market" then see on all the websites us at the very bottom with one or two stories and any research will prove to you that we don't. Why? Because we play teams no one cares about. We play Indiana. Everyone knows Indiana. Even though we lost one game in typical UNT fashion and one in heartbreaking fashion, we still draw 20K+. Idaho, yeah, no one knows them or really cares. Texas State, UTSA, etc. people do know them. New Mexico? Yeah, they suck but people know them. Shall I go on?

Go ask people about the opponents we play. No one knows/cares. Even alumni. Those are the people we need to sway. Like it or not, WKU/MTSU aren't getting that done.

MAC crowds still have 20K+ in much smaller markets.

MAC crowds are worse. But, I am on board with a move to the WAC with Texas State and UTSA, NMSU and LATech. We have got to change something. We are getting nowhere in this conference. But damnit, we have to win. Losing to these teams is TERRIBLE.

Edited November 20, 2011 by MeanMag

[untgeorge]

Were we not in the SLC before the Belt? The Sun Belt is making people apathetic and our program a joke.

Our people have been apathetic long before the Sun Belt.

[rcade]

I could care less if we went to the WAC or even went back down to Southland. At least I'd care about who we're playing.

The WAC has ridiculous travel times, TV starts late at night and may be worse than the Belt now. Going down to FCS is never going to happen, but if it did, bringing teams like McNeese, Central Arkansas and Stephen F. Austin to town is not going to excite anybody but you.

Staying in the Sun Belt makes the most sense until/unless we get a CUSA or MWC invite. It is what it is. When we were good in the Belt, fans showed up.

[UNTLifer]

You know, I am sick and tired of people laying our attendance issues on opposing teams fans. We have an enrollment of over 36,000 and over a million alumni in the area and we can't fill up a 31,000 seat stadium, because our people don't support the school that provided, or is providing them with an education and the training for a career. We need to stop pointing fingers and look in the freaking mirror. I would like to be in a more regional conference, but we're not and can't do a thing about it right now except support the young men and women that play on our teams, in the band, etc... I hope to see a day when visiting fans can't get tickets.

Sure, I want to be in a more regional conference, but that is not keeping me from coming to games, and I travel a hell of a lot farther than having to either walk across campus or drive across town. Support North Texas because they are your team!

[Green Mean]

Frankly speaking to hell with other schools bringing their fans into our stadium. I want 30K UNT fans at Apogee...not 22 or 25 and the rest the opponents fan. Rather than wanting to be affiliated with schools to help our attendance struggles lets really focus on fielding a consistently winning and dominant team and get OUR stadium 100% full with OUR own UNT fans.

That being said I'd love to be in the MWC or CUSA but that is because they are perceived higher and have had better and winning teams than our Sunbelt mates.

[FirefightnRick]

MAC crowds still have 20K+ in much smaller markets.

You don't watch much college football do you? There were 5 televised MAC games last week and three of them drew 12K or less. One of them in which they must have been using the SMU-NORTH TEXAS ticket counting system. Claimed 11k but there couldn't have been 50 people on one side of the stadium facing the camera.

Rick

Edited November 20, 2011 by FirefightnRick

[PlummMeanGreen]

I can say with all honesty that when I was a student at North Texas (early to mid 70's) I didn't know any of these SBC schools even existed except for Coach Larry Lacewell's Arkansas St football program and University of Louisiana.

North Texas (just out of the Mo' Valley) was pretty well one of the pioneering schools of getting on the schedule of many of the true Big Boys. It was truly a big deal in our state when UT's Darrell Royal scheduled some first time ever games with North Texas. We've heard alums from schools who have sinced passed us by even say that North Texas was their model for dramatically upgrading their own schedules (and thus their programs) as Fry was able to do with great consistency. They just kept advancing their football programs--we went back into our usual retreat mode.

I've heard UNT AD/Rick V even say Southern Miss at one time looked up to the North Texas of the 70's because they, too, at that time were beginning their march into unchartered waters of a more big time football program for themselves which they knew they'd have to upgrade their schedules for that to happen. Their ex football coach (Bobby Collins) in an old Southern Living magazine annual football edition even had a full page photo of Coach Collins standing in front of their newely expanded football stadium press box side when he said "we now have an impressive football stadium which will help in our recruiting." Those familiar with their program's history will know that it did just that. Folks, that was over 35 years ago and we all know which stadium we spent that same number of years in. Seems even back then that your stadium determined who your conference neighborhood would be.

Most of those years we did not have the leadership who would say: "We must have a new football stadum at North Texas--Fouts Field has out-lived its usefullness." (Fry sorta' put a strangle-hold of the importance of a new on campus stadium by his wanting to use Texas Stadium--but his plans were that we'd need that stadium for his program to grow with the schools he wanted to play). Also, I think some past leadership at North Texas thought football would eventually just be dropped so they certainly would never talk about the need of a new stadium. (Anyone else think Gretchen Bataile got canned because of her leading the way for a new stadium)?

GMG!

PS: Isn't it amazing the mood & attitude this board takes when we lose a football game?

GMG!

Edited November 20, 2011 by PlummMeanGreen

[greenminer]

Here I am, reading another new attendance thread on Sunday.

[Rudy]

Would you rather read another helmet sticker thread? We haven't had one of those in a while.