Interesting comment from Neinas

[LongJim]

Lots of chatter that BYU has accepted a Big 12 invite. Not confirmed though.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Don't worry we would sell out if we were in the Big 12, and they know potential when they see it. We are moving toward a student body of 45,000 in a very large MSA. At the end of the day neither TCU nor SMU can offer that.

We are that sleeping giant!

We Know How We See Us But How Does Everyone Else See Us...is the question?

Yet Tony, back in the 1940's we didn't play for a mythical national championship or have a Sammy Baugh or Doak Walker in our football program in Denton. No one even looked at us twice during our legacy building period when North Texas literally had one of the best teams in NCAA D1 the year we had Arkansas beat and then with that same Frank Broyle's Hogs football team only a few weeks later playing for a national championship in the Game of the Century versus Darrell Royal's UT Longhorns. Where was (and is) the love from the media powers from that era which featured Mean Joe Greene? I've never heard of such a quality NCAA football team being swept under the national sports scene carpet as that one North Texas Mean Green football from 1968 during the Joe Greene, Ron Shanklin, Cedric Hardman, Steve Ramsey, etc, Era.

Of course, during the Greene Era we were a Missouri Valley Conference team and the conference we were in even back then kicked us yet again in the butt--perception-wise. If any of you think a win over a lightly regarded Indiana U last Saturday night has done a whole lot for this young program this season with "bowl talk" only a few days after our Hoosier win, then many more will understand moreso the impact that our win over a respected Southeast Conference UT Vols football team did in 1975. That year, we didn't have a conference tie for the sport fans masses to roll their eyes back in their heads and say..........yeah, but look at that crappy conference those poor people play in. We were a Major Independent in 1975 and no, this is not any kind of suggestion saying we should go that route again, either.

As conference re-alighment talk rears its ugly (and always for us) untimely head, Lady Timing is still reserving the right to smile on us based on much of our last 7 years of not much happening; even worse, not much happening at the Sun Belt level. Apogee Stadium is a godsend and couldn't have happened at a better time (unless it had been built 10 or so years earlier). Coach Mac has said we shoulda' built it sooner but it is what it is..........we can do great things now at Apogee and get ready for the next re-alignment merry go round, but like every other school on the NCAA FBS block, we need to keep looking for something better.

TCU deserves Big 12 on what they have done lately (and did while spending the big money they actually should have been spending like former BU AD Grant Teaff & Baylor were spending pre-Southwest Conference breakup). TCU I think was the most surprised when the SWC imploded, but TCU did better than any of the non Big 12 Texas schools post SWC split, too.

Easy to predict that TCU is all but a sure thing for Big 12 as they rebuild ACS to become a 40,000 seat stadium cramped in on the TCU campus, but the jury could still be out on who the other would be albeit UH should get a strong look if they take more than 1 school from Texas. It really seems the Big 12 does not want to become another heavy Texas school-laden Southwest Conference'esque kind of league. This is what kills North Texas with our chances for CUSA quite frankly and others on this board have expessed the same opinion on that).

SENSE OF URGENCY SHOULD BE NOW! We need to make a bee line toward the Mountain West Conference like there is no tomorrow. It is our only chance to be in an ACQ in the future IMO.

GMG!

[Side Show Joe]

This is all well and good, but perception is reality sir.

As far as perception goes:

TCU is a football powerhouse school and may as well have 50K students enrolled, an entire metroplex area frothing at the mouth to watch them play, and money out the wazoo.

UNT is a football also-ran school and may as well have 4K students enrolled, a message board of die-hard fans and an apathetic remainder fan base, and $0.

Facts are not necessary when trying to reach the paying customers. This is where we are right now.

Now, if we win... perception changes!

I don't think most people perceive TCU as a team the metroplex is frothing at the mouth to go see. They are coming off a Rose Bowl win, and are only attracting 33,000 to their games. I think TCU reached a peek last season, at least for a year or two. They lost several players from last season, and lost to a good Baylor team already. Boise will probably take them down as well. Next season, in the Big East, it won't get any easier.

I don't think the Big 12 will add TCU. Small private schools are not the norm in the Big 12.

McCarney is going to be a winner at North Texas. Not just in Sun Belt games either. I truly believe North Texas will become a program that can compete with most teams on any Saturday. Just because on the field TCU has dominated the metroplex for the past decade, doesn't mean they will this decade.

[ColoradoEagle]

I don't think most people perceive TCU as a team the metroplex is frothing at the mouth to go see. They are coming off a Rose Bowl win, and are only attracting 33,000 to their games.

I agree with the perspective of DFW not frothing at the mouth for TCU, but their stadium only holds 32k or 33k people right now while it's under construction.

[UNT90]

We Know How We See Us But How Does Everyone Else See Us...is the question?

Yep. For those crazy enough to think the Big 12 would even glance our way, run that idea by a friend or co-worker who graduated from a Big 12 school. Watch the reaction closely. Yes, that reaction does matter because that is how every single alum of Big 12 schools will react if our name even enters into the conversation (It won't). Don't be delusional, people. We should be doing everything we can to whore ourselves to the MWC right now, and that is a huge, huge reach for this AD right now.

Neinas knows the bad (alumni who have never been connected to the university, inability to sell out the 1st game in a brand new stadium, rancid on the field performance, poor student support) very, very, very well. It's not like he just looked past all that stuff. You could have a billion Alumni in the area and 200K undergrads, but if less than 30k give a crap about the athletics at that school, it doesn't make one hill of beans.

Edited September 29, 2011 by UNT90

[KingDL1]

Yep. For those crazy enough to think the Big 12 would even glance our way, run that idea by a friend or co-worker who graduated from a Big 12 school. Watch the reaction closely. Yes, that reaction does matter because that is how every single alum of Big 12 schools will react if our name even enters into the conversation (It won't). Don't be delusional, people. We should be doing everything we can to whore ourselves to the MWC right now, and that is a huge, huge reach for this AD right now.

Neinas knows the bad (alumni who have never been connected to the university, inability to sell out the 1st game in a brand new stadium, rancid on the field performance, poor student support) very, very, very well. It's not like he just looked past all that stuff. You could have a billion Alumni in the area and 200K undergrads, but if less than 30k give a crap about the athletics at that school, it doesn't make one hill of beans.

I actually heard it from some people at work that have no affiliation to North Texas. If you remember our attendance when a very bad Baylor came to town you might start to realize attendance would not be a problem. No one will ever get excited about most of the Belt coming through Denton they are just not relative. I see no reason to knock Neinas' intelligence or the big 12 if they can see the potential in a school our size. Next time I am drinking with you, I will explain it better.

[UNT90]

Not knocking Neinas at all. Just saying that he isn't going to say anything negative about UNT in public (the release of the public report). He may have had a whole list of things that needed improvement that he addressed in private with the President and BOR. I would just rather have him advocating for us, not having a hand in our fate.

I hope we get a seat at the big table, I just think we have a long way to go.

[DJstars21]

Yep. For those crazy enough to think the Big 12 would even glance our way, run that idea by a friend or co-worker who graduated from a Big 12 school. Watch the reaction closely. Yes, that reaction does matter because that is how every single alum of Big 12 schools will react if our name even enters into the conversation (It won't). Don't be delusional, people. We should be doing everything we can to whore ourselves to the MWC right now, and that is a huge, huge reach for this AD right now.

Neinas knows the bad (alumni who have never been connected to the university, inability to sell out the 1st game in a brand new stadium, rancid on the field performance, poor student support) very, very, very well. It's not like he just looked past all that stuff. You could have a billion Alumni in the area and 200K undergrads, but if less than 30k give a crap about the athletics at that school, it doesn't make one hill of beans.

Excellent post, clearly a number of us have a distorted view of were we stand in collegiate athletics. Im very sorry but the big 12 just isn't an option and anyone affiliated with the big 12 that would allow that to happen would be put on meds. At this time our primary focus should be recognition; winning games against well known teams and demolishing our competition in the Sunbelt. If we can acheive those goals, then and only then, will our true potential as a program become relevant in larger conference circles. It's only a matter of time.. A bowl ap. and a big ten win in DM's first season would be truly profound.

Moving forward, after we accomplish the previously mentioned goals the MWC and CUSA should top the list of potential candidates. When the program is stout and we beat some teams we should'nt have beat, eyebrows will raise and the transition will be effortless. Beating IU shows these guys are starting to take themselves seariously and coach Mac knows what hes doing. The ugly duckling eventually became a swan, UNT is set to do big things in the NCAA.

[PlummMeanGreen]

No school will most likely never leave a league like the SBC, WAC or MAC and catapult to a league like the Big 12.

Some school(s) from a league like the Mountain West Conference or even maybe CUSA most likely will, though.

[dentUNiTe]

if UNT has "no shot" at the Big 12, then please explain how South Florida made it into the Big East, and what circumstances were different...

[Green Otaku]

And as KingDL pointed out - we go Big 12 and you have instant Sell Outs to every home game. Not to mention our recruiting ship is righted and sailing full steam ahead overnight.

Which is exactly why we would be kept out. You think these schools want to lose recruits to us? Being in a major recruiting area and being a large state school will keep the Big12 away from us. I don't know if your thinking its in these team's good hearts to help us out, but that isn't the case. They will protect their own interest, unless we add to that interest we will be blocked out. Be a realist.

[UNT90]

if UNT has "no shot" at the Big 12, then please explain how South Florida made it into the Big East, and what circumstances were different...

The Big East was in building mode, not survival mode.

S. Florida had won much more that 11 games in the previous 6+ years before entering the Big East.

S. Florida drew 31K for it's first home game as a FBS school and never drew under 20k as a CUSA school, often drawing well over 30k

And the biggest difference. S. Florida Alumni did not have a 50 plus year history of ignoring/not supporting the football program.

Sometimes being the new kid on the block gives you an advantage.

Edited September 30, 2011 by UNT90

[PlummMeanGreen]

The Big East was in building mode, not survival mode.

S. Florida had won much more that 11 games in the previous 6+ years before entering the Big East.

S. Florida drew 31K for it's first home game as a FBS school and never drew under 20k as a CUSA school, often drawing well over 30k

And the biggest difference. S. Florida Alumni did not have a 50 plus year history of ignoring/not supporting the football program.

Sometimes being the new kid on the block gives you an advantage.

One may wonder if UTSA will have the same success as USF albeit the NCAA climate is much different today than when South Florida was getting started. UTSA: Great City + Known Stadium With A Dome (which also serves as a bowl) + upstart program. Time will tell but they have started in a league with a name but after Boise is gone might the WAC be gone, too?

Guess some might say we of North Texas have done all this with our football program the "old fashioned way?"

Forward ho the wagons!

Beat Tulsa! It's Time...

[rcade]

That's what I'm thinking will happen. If anything happens to us- it will be because of the ripple effect to us. I don't think we'll be a primary player- but rather a secondary player.

UNT would be lucky to be a tertiary player. I can't believe there are fans who think we have a shot to get into the Big 12. Bartender, I'll have what they're drinking.

[rcade]

if UNT has "no shot" at the Big 12, then please explain how South Florida made it into the Big East, and what circumstances were different...

USF had started breaking in to the top 25 when it was invited and it won around 29 championships in all sports while in CUSA. It had all of UNT's positives *plus* on-field football success and no other college in Tampa competing with it for attention and resources.

[rcade]

Don't worry we would sell out if we were in the Big 12, and they know potential when they see it.

The argument WE WILL SELL OUT AFTER YOU INVITE US has never worked in conference realignment in the entire history of college football.

It's like walking up to the hottest girl in the bar and saying I WILL BE GOOD LOOKING IF YOU SLEEP WITH ME.

[GTWT]

If the Big-12 is smart, and I recognize that is a bad assumption, they will build within their current footprint - Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa. That means Houston & TCU ought to be at the top of the list. TCU would be the only private member so that's a strike against them leaving Houston as a top choice.

I hope the Big-12 survives, stays regional, and will be - in about 10 years - the home of UNT athletics.

God bless Texas!

[Green Mean]

The argument WE WILL SELL OUT AFTER YOU INVITE US has never worked in conference realignment in the entire history of college football.

It's like walking up to the hottest girl in the bar and saying I WILL BE GOOD LOOKING IF YOU SLEEP WITH ME.

Exactly. That is a terrible argument. We need to earn a look from the Big 12, SEC or any other BCS conference for them to look at us. They know we'll sell out if we're invited but we don't exactly have 60k seats to sell. Right now we just need to whore the hell out of our school and athletics program and we just need to win and advance our athletics in any way possible.

Realistically we should be lobbying getting in to the MWC. I think that is a perfect fit for us as it is the best overall conference after the AQ ones and their Texas footprint would still be in tact . Also keep in mind that their outreach would be great as it goes from Texas and all through the west.

[adman]

TCU would be the only private member so that's a strike against them leaving Houston as a top choice.

God bless Texas!

When did Baylor leave the Big 12?

[DeepGreen]

If the Big-12 is smart, and I recognize that is a bad assumption, they will build within their current footprint - Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa. That means Houston & TCU ought to be at the top of the list. TCU would be the only private member so that's a strike against them leaving Houston as a top choice.

I hope the Big-12 survives, stays regional, and will be - in about 10 years - the home of UNT athletics.

God bless Texas!

Not that I have a say in the matter, but I'd rather see Houston and/or TCU get into the Big 12 than Louisville or Cincinnati.