Article On Canales And The Coaching Search

[Cerebus]

I have to disagree on the 4 bowl trips not building anything.

I believe the reason that we have been able to maintain decent attendance despite the HORRIBLE record of the last 6 years is because a generation or two of NT students experienced NT Football having some success. How many of the "young gun alums" like TTG, Quoner, Eagle1855, etc come to games despite our subpar performance? The kids who had at least a memory of this success. if not some first hand experience, are the ones who passed an athletic fee.

It is my firm belief that if we deleted those years, right now we would not have a shiny new stadium going up, our attendance for the year would be sub 10k, and with the budget cuts coming to NT, real pressure from some groups on campus to drop football to a lower level or eliminate it completely.

No, those four winning years did not produce sellout crowds, a fawning local media, or an invite to the Big 12, but let me let you in a dirty little secret. If we do make the right hire and that coach leads us to four straight bowl games, that wont happen immediately either.

What that will do for us is solidify out base so well that the eventual rise of North Texas football to levels never reached before is almost assured.

There, that's my HSO of the week.

[TheTastyGreek]

I have to disagree on the 4 bowl trips not building anything.

I believe the reason that we have been able to maintain decent attendance despite the HORRIBLE record of the last 6 years is because a generation or two of NT students experienced NT Football having some success. How many of the "young gun alums" like TTG, Quoner, Eagle1855, etc come to games despite our subpar performance?

I'll go ahead and tell you for sure that I never, EVER would have come to a North Texas sporting event if it weren't for Darrell Dickey and the Sun Belt win streak.

I definitely wouldn't have engaged with the school and the community if it weren't for MeanMag and GoMeanGreen.

And I might not still be around if it weren't for Johnny Jones.

[SilverEagle]

I have to disagree on the 4 bowl trips not building anything.

I believe the reason that we have been able to maintain decent attendance despite the HORRIBLE record of the last 6 years is because a generation or two of NT students experienced NT Football having some success. How many of the "young gun alums" like TTG, Quoner, Eagle1855, etc come to games despite our subpar performance? The kids who had at least a memory of this success. if not some first hand experience, are the ones who passed an athletic fee.

It is my firm belief that if we deleted those years, right now we would not have a shiny new stadium going up, our attendance for the year would be sub 10k, and with the budget cuts coming to NT, real pressure from some groups on campus to drop football to a lower level or eliminate it completely.

No, those four winning years did not produce sellout crowds, a fawning local media, or an invite to the Big 12, but let me let you in a dirty little secret. If we do make the right hire and that coach leads us to four straight bowl games, that wont happen immediately either.

What that will do for us is solidify out base so well that the eventual rise of North Texas football to levels never reached before is almost assured.

There, that's my HSO of the week.

But imagine where we would be (fan wise) if DD had actually tried to engage the fan base and community. Instead of digging in to his bunker.

The coach I have in mind would be practically going up into the stands and shaking the hand of every person that showed up for the game.

Edited November 22, 2010 by SilverEagle

[UNT90]

You mean like how those four straight bowls trips got their attention? For North Texas alumni/students and community fans (few as there are) it takes more than just wins. It takes getting out into the community and telling those people that you REALLY want to be their college team. THAT creates buzz just as much as wins.

For the highlighted part, no, it doesn't. Leach didn't do that at Tech, and look how that program exploded when he started beating top 20 competition.

But let me clarify. By winning, I am not talking about Sun Belt Conference teams. By winning, I am talking about knocking off Clemson, Kansas St., Georgia. I am talking about winning in big OOC games. That was the downfall of the Dickey era.

Cultures change. We are witnessing a culture change at UNT. A well attended conference game in the Dickey era was, wha, 10,000? Now we are disappointed if there are not at least 17K in the stands. We had 24K for opening day this year for a team that was 5-33 the previous 3 years. That is why this hire is so important. That is why we need someone that has done it before and is not feeling his way through a first time head coaching gig. We can't afford to take that risk.,

[ColoradoEagle]

And I might not still be around if it weren't for Johnny Jones.

Same here. Baylor in '03 was my first game, and I had fun going to the games while we were winning. I bought season tickets this year and made it to a couple games, but found it hard to drag myself up to watch the beatdowns.

Basketball, on the other hand, I would drive to watch a team coming off a 1-27 year. That isn't to say I want to get rid of JJ and bring back Trilli, however.

[Cerebus]

But imagine where we would be (fan wise) if DD had actually tried to engage the fan base and community. Instead of digging in to his bunker.

The coach I have in mind would be practically going up into the stands and shaking the hand of every person that showed up for the game.

I agree Coach Dickey, and the environment created for him, did not take full advantage of the situation.

But some are saying it accomplished nothing and that is just crazy. Real talk of dropping football, or talk of leveraging the new stadium into a better conference, that is huge.

[UNT90]

I have to disagree on the 4 bowl trips not building anything.

I believe the reason that we have been able to maintain decent attendance despite the HORRIBLE record of the last 6 years is because a generation or two of NT students experienced NT Football having some success. How many of the "young gun alums" like TTG, Quoner, Eagle1855, etc come to games despite our subpar performance? The kids who had at least a memory of this success. if not some first hand experience, are the ones who passed an athletic fee.

It is my firm belief that if we deleted those years, right now we would not have a shiny new stadium going up, our attendance for the year would be sub 10k, and with the budget cuts coming to NT, real pressure from some groups on campus to drop football to a lower level or eliminate it completely.

No, those four winning years did not produce sellout crowds, a fawning local media, or an invite to the Big 12, but let me let you in a dirty little secret. If we do make the right hire and that coach leads us to four straight bowl games, that wont happen immediately either.

What that will do for us is solidify out base so well that the eventual rise of North Texas football to levels never reached before is almost assured.

There, that's my HSO of the week.

+1 for you, if I could.

The 4 bowls peaked my interest in the program again, and, sadly enough (after his demise), the Dodge hire brought me back on board.

What you say above is why this hire is so big to this university. It HAS to be the right hire this time.

[SilverEagle]

For the highlighted part, no, it doesn't. Leach didn't do that at Tech, and look how that program exploded when he started beating top 20 competition.

But let me clarify. By winning, I am not talking about Sun Belt Conference teams. By winning, I am talking about knocking off Clemson, Kansas St., Georgia. I am talking about winning in big OOC games. That was the downfall of the Dickey era.

Cultures change. We are witnessing a culture change at UNT. A well attended conference game in the Dickey era was, wha, 10,000? Now we are disappointed if there are not at least 17K in the stands. We had 24K for opening day this year for a team that was 5-33 the previous 3 years. That is why this hire is so important. That is why we need someone that has done it before and is not feeling his way through a first time head coaching gig. We can't afford to take that risk.,

Texas Tech already has a captive fan base that really doesn't have anywhere else to go but to Tech games. On a down year, they out "fan" us two (or three) to one. The big wins (IMHO) just brought in the fringe fans and jumped the numbers up.

I hope you are right about a culture change at North Texas. I hope our increase in attendance (modest as it might be) is not due solely to the jump in enrollment at North Texas.

[Cerebus]

For the highlighted part, no, it doesn't. Leach didn't do that at Tech, and look how that program exploded when he started beating top 20 competition.

But let me clarify. By winning, I am not talking about Sun Belt Conference teams. By winning, I am talking about knocking off Clemson, Kansas St., Georgia. I am talking about winning in big OOC games. That was the downfall of the Dickey era.

Cultures change.

Yeah, and out culture changed from just wanting a winning record to wanting to beat big OOC games BECAUSE of the success of Dickey's teams.

I have not been here a long time, but I was here before Dickey, and I do recall people just wanting to be a respectable lower level team, once the NO Bowl teams rolled through here, that was no longer enough.

A well attended conference game in the Dickey era was, wha, 10,000?

No need to re-write history. I don't have a media guide in front of me, but several of our highest attended games were in the Dickey era. There was a lot more than 10K for the Baylor game, or the NMSU bowl clinching win.

[Green Lantern]

I have to disagree on the 4 bowl trips not building anything.

I believe the reason that we have been able to maintain decent attendance despite the HORRIBLE record of the last 6 years is because a generation or two of NT students experienced NT Football having some success. How many of the "young gun alums" like TTG, Quoner, Eagle1855, etc come to games despite our subpar performance? The kids who had at least a memory of this success. if not some first hand experience, are the ones who passed an athletic fee.

It is my firm belief that if we deleted those years, right now we would not have a shiny new stadium going up, our attendance for the year would be sub 10k, and with the budget cuts coming to NT, real pressure from some groups on campus to drop football to a lower level or eliminate it completely.

No, those four winning years did not produce sellout crowds, a fawning local media, or an invite to the Big 12, but let me let you in a dirty little secret. If we do make the right hire and that coach leads us to four straight bowl games, that wont happen immediately either.

What that will do for us is solidify out base so well that the eventual rise of North Texas football to levels never reached before is almost assured.

There, that's my HSO of the week.

No question. The 4 NO Bowl trips and SBC winning streak engaged (or re-engaged) a good portion of this fanbase. The first time walking out onto Bourbon Street that year against CSU was the first "aha" North Texas experience I had here. Seeing that many North Texas fans out on Bourbon Street, almost an equivalent of a Fouts home crowd, was that true college experience that I'd been looking for. For that, I will forever be grateful to DD and Co. JJ has also done a great deal to keep the momentum from the DD era going, just with a different sport. He doesn't get enough credit for that, imo.

A number of my friends from this era (myself included) are now season ticket holders for football and basketball, MGC members, stadium and/or pavilion donors, UNTAA members and continue to make every football and basketball game possible. All this stemmed back to the success that we had during this era. I liken it to the number of older alums that still have such a strong connection to UNT because of the Fry era.

All that said, that's also an example of why the next head coaching hire is so important at NT. If we can re-engage old fans and engage a new portion of the fanbase with a successful football program, the dividends will be paid out ten fold in the next decade or so.

[TheColonyEagle]

I wonder if one of the quesitons RV would ask Canales in his interview is, "Who do you have in mind for defensive coordinator?"

Would be really curious to know that answer...

[PlummMeanGreen]

The best culture change that could happen to North Texas now almost has to come from Rawlins, Neinas and the athletic department itself and that is the long time/no see culture of us acting like the 3'rd largest university in Texas instead of a J.C. Matthews'esque teachers college attitude of "we po but we sho' proud at North Texas but we still like to think small no matter what--just like our founding fathers taught us to think."

One man changed the whole dynamics of a much smaller UNT (16,000 students around 1973) and with a Denton (rural) County pop. of 99,000 according to a Texas Almanac during that same era.

I cannot begin to imagine if we had a Hayden Fry type hire in 2010 now that we really have some impressive numbers in our entire UNT constituency compared to the diminutive numbers of the early 70's. Fry was not a commodity when NT Prez' Jitter Nolen single-handeldy hired him but he was a known commodity across the Southwest and that is IMHO what made him a success in Denton and later at Iowa (who hired him based on what he did in Denton--not SMU).

GMG!

Edited November 22, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[TheColonyEagle]

One man changed the whole dynamics of a much smaller UNT (16,000 students around 1973) and with a Denton (rural) County pop. of 99,000 according to a Texas Almanac during that same era.

I cannot begin to imagine if we had a Hayden Fry type hire in 2010 now that we really have some impressive numbers in our entire UNT constituency compared to the diminutive numbers of the early 70's.

What if Canales is that type of hire?

[UNT90]

Yeah, and out culture changed from just wanting a winning record to wanting to beat big OOC games BECAUSE of the success of Dickey's teams.

I have not been here a long time, but I was here before Dickey, and I do recall people just wanting to be a respectable lower level team, once the NO Bowl teams rolled through here, that was no longer enough.

No need to re-write history. I don't have a media guide in front of me, but several of our highest attended games were in the Dickey era. There was a lot more than 10K for the Baylor game, or the NMSU bowl clinching win.

Not trying to re-write history. Baylor and a conference championship game are kind of the exception, as should be the K St. game this year.. Lets just look at the average attendance, shall we?

I am not talking about the expectations of a loyal fan base, I am talking about the expectations of the grad the barely has an eye on the program. The grad that makes a game or two a year. That is the guy that will pony up for season tickets if the program excites him. That is the guy that you want to come back to the program. That is the guy the was waiting for the big OOC win in the Dickey era. That is the guy that would have been probably been excited by a close loss in any of those games. It never came. Winning those games will turn the heads of the 97k that have any interest in college athletics.

[Cerebus]

What if Canales is that type of hire?

If he is or he isn't, it is up to Neinas, RV and Rawlins to make what is going to be the most significant decision in NT athletics since we (moronically) decided to drop down 1-AA.

If we screw this up, it isn't the coming conference shuffles we should fear, its the looming classification changes that should keep us up at night.

However, like I said before, if we didn't have the Dickey NO Bowl teams, we would be having the FCS argument RIGHT NOW.

[UNT90]

Texas Tech already has a captive fan base that really doesn't have anywhere else to go but to Tech games. On a down year, they out "fan" us two (or three) to one. The big wins (IMHO) just brought in the fringe fans and jumped the numbers up.

I hope you are right about a culture change at North Texas. I hope our increase in attendance (modest as it might be) is not due solely to the jump in enrollment at North Texas.

You really should talk to some recent Tech grads and see how connected Leach made them to their university. I know of 2 Texas Tech bars in Ft. Worth alone. Tech didn't have that level of interest before Leach. They also didn't have a stadium expansion and consistent, every game sell outs. They also didn't have students getting in line on Thursdays to make sure they got a seat for a Saturday game.

All done without begging a local community to buy season tickets.

[Cerebus]

Not trying to re-write history. Baylor and a conference championship game are kind of the exception, as should be the K St. game this year.. Lets just look at the average attendance, shall we?

I am looking at the average attendance. I don't have the media guides in front of me, but those bowl years we average home attendance of 18k-20k, the Baylor year was higher than average, but the other years without that draw were well above 10K, they were well above the 15K that the NCAA was considering making the FBS cutoff line.

We may have had a game or two, like Dickeys last over the thanksgiving break, where we had less than 10K, but in no way where we "lucky" to draw 10K to most of the games. We drew well above that.

You can find a lot of things to point out as wrong in the Dickey era, attendance where we were "lucky to draw 10K" was not one of them.

I am not talking about the expectations of a loyal fan base, I am talking about the expectations of the grad the barely has an eye on the program. The grad that makes a game or two a year. That is the guy that will pony up for season tickets if the program excites him. That is the guy that you want to come back to the program. That is the guy the was waiting for the big OOC win in the Dickey era. That is the guy that would have been probably been excited by a close loss in any of those games. It never came. Winning those games will turn the heads of the 97k that have any interest in college athletics.

Did you ignore the three of four people who have already posted in this thread who were Dickey era grads who are now involved because of the Dickey era? TTG said he would have never come to a single game if it was not for the NO Bowl teams, how is that not someone who barely had an eye on the program?

Look, Dickey had plenty of warts. Given the political situation, it was probably time for him to go when he did, that did not mean the entire time was a failure. Nothing drives me nuts more than people who downplay those years, they were HUGE to us.

[Cerebus]

You really should talk to some recent Tech grads and see how connected Leach made them to their university. I know of 2 Texas Tech bars in Ft. Worth alone. Tech didn't have that level of interest before Leach. They also didn't have a stadium expansion and consistent, every game sell outs. They also didn't have students getting in line on Thursdays to make sure they got a seat for a Saturday game.

All done without begging a local community to buy season tickets.

Part of the reason Leach was fire, IMHO, was that he was the draw, not the University, and the AD and University couldn't stand that.

I know a handful of well funded TT alums in the area who donate to the athletics, who would switch their giving over to NT if Leach was hired here.

Now that may prove that the the AD was right in saying the cult of personality was a problem, but they handled it all wrong.

[TheTastyGreek]

Did you ignore the three of four people who have already posted in this thread who were Dickey era grads who are now involved because of the Dickey era? TTG said he would have never come to a single game if it was not for the NO Bowl teams, how is that not someone who barely had an eye on the program?

I was worse than "barely had an eye on the program".

I thought college sports was one of the dumbest things in all creation. I repeatedly turned down offers to attend games for free (my dad tried to take me to one of the Texas Tech games at Texas Stadium, gruu tried to get me to attend basketball games under Jankovich and Trilli). Generally, when someone would offer, I wasn't particularly polite in expressing why I didn't want to waste any time going to a game.

If I had bothered to vote in the student fee election the first time they tried to pass a stadium fee, I would have voted against it.

When we opened a season against Oklahoma, an alum was trying to convince me we'd be competitive. I bet him a dollar and a "loser has to shut the hell up about NT sports sucking/being awesome", even with (I think) a 30-something point line, I won and teased him mercilessly for daring to believe the team ever had a prayer of keeping things close. A few years later in 2008, I was in a hotel room in Manhattan, Kansas trying to convince FilmerJ that we had a shot at beating Kansas State.

Even as I watched the Idaho game back in 2001 on TV with a bunch of NT alum co-workers, I made jokes about the situation. Within a year and a half, I was completely bought in.

Now I'm a North Texas season ticket holder and I schedule most of my working life and my personal life around NT sports.

Wouldn't have happened if it weren't for Dickey.

[PlummMeanGreen]

What if Canales is that type of hire?

In many of our heart of hearts, I don't think UNT just re-signed Neinas last week to a $40,000 plus expenses consultant contract for him to fly into DFW Airport, rent a car, drive to Denton and hire someone presently living in Denton & coaching at North Texas. Now I may be wrong about that, but too many others I talk to said the same thing.

I like Coach Chico, have had PM's from some of his closest and they were class acts with apologies from prior things said by some not in the Chico Camp but I still defer to....."probably the right coach but at the wrong time in our entire varsity athletics history at North Texas." This hire is about:

(1) Public Relations We almost need a head-turner of hire to win over all our skeptics who with our illustrious past have more than 1 or 2 reasons to be skeptical--how about even "6" reasons as in our last 6 hires in Denton? This time it just can't be a "business as usual" hire at UNT--too much now at stake with our $78,000,000 stadium investment between those 2 Texas interstates.

(2) Luxury Suites Sales: We all but need the "not the usual" kind of hire in Denton to sell those out before next Fall and one alum who would know told me there were plenty left to sell.

(3) Season Ticket Sales: We never get told from UNT Athletics what those are so that plainly says we haven't sold too many of those of late. I have a fellow alum here in the West O'Plex who after he saw the stadium said "Plum, we both need to get back to buying season tickets and I don't (him talking) care if you have DJ gigs every Saturday or not next Fall, either." (He was quite convincing).

Coach Fran would be the closest to a coach known across the state of Texas that we might could hire but.....this is why they are paying Neinas the Big Bucks to come up with the right list of names for us to make a choice.

Strong rumor says there will be enough money approved by the BOR's for both the "known" HFC plus his assistants whatever that amount would need to be. Coach Fran was said to have been interested in a $400,000 per year job out West a year or 2 back.

Edited November 22, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[NT80]

Part of the reason Leach was fire, IMHO, was that he was the draw, not the University, and the AD and University couldn't stand that.

I know a handful of well funded TT alums in the area who donate to the athletics, who would switch their giving over to NT if Leach was hired here.

Now that may prove that the the AD was right in saying the cult of personality was a problem, but they handled it all wrong.

Yes, Leach the grouchy pirate was as much the draw as Tech football, fans came to see both. Much in the same mold as a Bo Schembechler or Woody Hayes type he is the anti-Dodge as far as doing PR work for a school.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Well, Kragthorpe did great at Tulsa, stunk at Louisville, but who knows what was up there? And McCarney had some success, but took a long time to get there; didn't he have an overall losing record?

I think Kragthorpe is a mystery because I'm not sure who he REALLY is. Is he the guy that took Tulsa out of the duldrums and into the upper-crust of CUSA? Or, is he the coach who lead a fantastic Louisville team to a tailspin?

McCarney had some great years at IASt and some terrible years. I'm just not sure if he's the right guy either.

Hopefully there are more options...

I'm beginning to lose hope in my Dennis/Brad Franchione dreams because I do not hear his name being leaked, rather some on here have said that he HAS NOT been contacted.

[football fan]

[quote name='SilverEagle' timestamp='1290405727' post=

I will say this over and over. Coach Canales is exactly the type of personality that would do best as the head football coach at North Texas.

[football fan]

.....not like this guy. I've seen the team respond very positively to him, and (you'll have to trust me on this one) I know an excellent Fry-like motivator when I see (and hear) one.

Ditto! Canales IS a great fit. He knows what needs to be done.

[football fan]

Canales will out work most if not all of the stated candidates I'm certain. I hear he is at the office from 6 am to 10-12 pm most days. Plus, I have heard that Herm Edwards, Jon Gruden and Jim Leavitt have put in a good word. There are probably others but I am not aware. Hope RV solicits input from the Team too. Canales is a great fit for UNT!