Our Guard Situation

[chrisfisher]

I want to make clear that this is NOT an attack on individual players, the team, or JJ. Obviously, JJ has done a lot right given our 3-0 record with several nice OOC wins. It is simply an analysis of our guard situation based on the past 4 games.

First, I do not understand why Triston Thompson earned the starting role but only plays 15 minutes per game. Thompson shoots 52%/2's, 43%/3's, and 100%/free throws. Dennis' super hot shooting racks up impressive numbers too: 48%/2's, 60%/3's, and 86%/free throws. Yet Triston averages only 15 minutes per game (and still manages to put up 7 ppg), and Dennis only 19 minutes (and average 15 ppg). And of course White is playing extremely good ball, but gets adequate minutes (32 min avg.). Meanwhile, McCoy, Willingham, and Bell have miserable shooting averages (below 30% on 2's and even worse on 3's), though Willingham is clutch on free throws and Bell is our assist leader.

We are very fortunate to be 3-0 with half our guards shooting so poorly. Thanks to White, Wooden, and Dennis’ big points, as well as Williams’ (and Wooden and Stewart to a smaller degree) rebounding we have won each game.

I believe the Thompson and Dennis should get extended playing time based on their performance thus far. The starting line should be Williams, Woodson, White, Dennis, and Thompson based on their performance in the first 4 games. I realize that Bell is a senior and has done a lot for our program, but this is not charity basketball. You either make your shots or get limited play until you do.

[MeanGreenBuzz]

Nobody can run the offense like Ben Bell. Last year and so far this year when he has been out of the game the offense slows down and we don't score as well and usually give up more turnovers. Yes White has been playing well but he has 11 turnovers to 3 assists. He can drive and score, but as a freshman he has yet to learn how to orchestrate a D1 offense. Had Bell been injured for the OSU game OSU would have won. He brings a lot more to the table than just his scoring. Actually come to think of it I don't think he was signed for his scoring at all. He was signed as a pure guard that can run an offense.

[Censored by Laurie]

I want to make clear that this is NOT an attack on individual players, the team, or JJ. Obviously, JJ has done a lot right given our 3-0 record with several nice OOC wins. It is simply an analysis of our guard situation based on the past 4 games.

First, I do not understand why Triston Thompson earned the starting role but only plays 15 minutes per game. Thompson shoots 52%/2's, 43%/3's, and 100%/free throws. Dennis' super hot shooting racks up impressive numbers too: 48%/2's, 60%/3's, and 86%/free throws. Yet Triston averages only 15 minutes per game (and still manages to put up 7 ppg), and Dennis only 19 minutes (and average 15 ppg). And of course White is playing extremely good ball, but gets adequate minutes (32 min avg.). Meanwhile, McCoy, Willingham, and Bell have miserable shooting averages (below 30% on 2's and even worse on 3's), though Willingham is clutch on free throws and Bell is our assist leader.

We are very fortunate to be 3-0 with half our guards shooting so poorly. Thanks to White, Wooden, and Dennis’ big points, as well as Williams’ (and Wooden and Stewart to a smaller degree) rebounding we have won each game.

I believe the Thompson and Dennis should get extended playing time based on their performance thus far. The starting line should be Williams, Woodson, White, Dennis, and Thompson based on their performance in the first 4 games. I realize that Bell is a senior and has done a lot for our program, but this is not charity basketball. You either make your shots or get limited play until you do.

A couple of things:

1. Shooters need shots to find their stroke...give McCoy and Willingham some time, they're both accomplished shooters and experienced players and they will find their range

2. Starters are no where near as important as who finishes and/or who is playing while the other team is making a run.

3. You can have too many shooters and scorers on the floor at the same time...in line-ups you're looking for balance.

4. With the starting line-up you proposed you have a TOTAL of 12 assists.

5. Bell is your floor leader and best perimeter defender.

6. Dennis is thriving as our Jet Terry...hes a pure scorer and this role off the bench fits him perfectly

[greenminer]

I want to make clear that this is NOT an attack on individual players, the team, or JJ. Obviously, JJ has done a lot right given our 3-0 record with several nice OOC wins. It is simply an analysis of our guard situation based on the past 4 games.

First, I do not understand why Triston Thompson earned the starting role but only plays 15 minutes per game. Thompson shoots 52%/2's, 43%/3's, and 100%/free throws. Dennis' super hot shooting racks up impressive numbers too: 48%/2's, 60%/3's, and 86%/free throws. Yet Triston averages only 15 minutes per game (and still manages to put up 7 ppg), and Dennis only 19 minutes (and average 15 ppg). And of course White is playing extremely good ball, but gets adequate minutes (32 min avg.). Meanwhile, McCoy, Willingham, and Bell have miserable shooting averages (below 30% on 2's and even worse on 3's), though Willingham is clutch on free throws and Bell is our assist leader.

We are very fortunate to be 3-0 with half our guards shooting so poorly. Thanks to White, Wooden, and Dennis’ big points, as well as Williams’ (and Wooden and Stewart to a smaller degree) rebounding we have won each game.

I believe the Thompson and Dennis should get extended playing time based on their performance thus far. The starting line should be Williams, Woodson, White, Dennis, and Thompson based on their performance in the first 4 games. I realize that Bell is a senior and has done a lot for our program, but this is not charity basketball. You either make your shots or get limited play until you do.

Maybe I'm by myself here, but I see Bell doing all the other things besides putting the ball in the hoop that gets you a start. I haven't really seen the stats, just - in person - that we have a lineup that has scorers across the board, and a different combination of players have stepped up each night to contribute to the point total.

It's actually quite impressive. My only requests:

1) Work on the half court offense better. ISU showed (and OSU for about 10 minutes in the 2nd half) that if you get in our face, put your hands in the passing lanes, and be physical you can disrupt our flow.

2) Better on-the-ball defense. Moreso on the perimeter. Ironic, because inside we aren't so tall but Stewart and Wooden have been playing lights out.

[CMJ]

Ben is filling the Rich Young "glue guy" role this year. He may not have stats, but it seems like he's always doing the little things to make us run.

[BleedGreen]

Ryan McCoy can shoot the ball well. He just needs to calm down. Having Thompson at the 3 is fitting due to his size of 6'5. When facing a bigger shooting guard or 3, we are going to need someone to shut them down.

Staring line-up is okay for now I suppose, but Collin Dennis is a player. He should be starting at 2 so JJ is going to have to decide between White and Bell at the 1. I say let's start Bell, Dennis, and Thompson with White for a speedy change of pace, and McCoy off bench. Bell can rotate back to 2 when Dennis needs a rest.

Just my 2 cents.

Truth be told - we are doing great and something is working right! Go Mean Green!

[untwillrise]

Just look at the New York knicks. There is only one ball.

[Travis]

I see Bell as the ultimate utility player. He will go after anybody and do anything to give us the advantage.

[NT80]

This is still a work in progress. I'm sure coaches are trying to see different combos together and how the new guys play in game situations vs practice. That's what pre-league games are for. The players will find their roles as the season goes on, just be glad we are so deep and can play 10-12 players. It's good not to have just one go-to guy and a different player getting hot each game.

[Censored by Laurie]

This is still a work in progress. I'm sure coaches are trying to see different combos together and how the new guys play in game situations vs practice. That's what pre-league games are for. The players will find their roles as the season goes on, just be glad we are so deep and can play 10-12 players. It's good not to have just one go-to guy and a different player getting hot each game.

Well put...I said at the beginning of the season that I didn't believe anyone on this team would average 15 points...but 5-6 would average double figures, with 2-3 just a step down from that. I love our balance so far and believe we'll be even deeper when McCoy and Willingham get comfortable and White matures through the season.

Every day I feel better and better about this being a very special team...and every day I feel more and more depressed that this was the year I chose to move 2000 miles away

[chrisfisher]

I want to make clear that this is NOT an attack on individual players, the team, or JJ. Obviously, JJ has done a lot right given our 3-0 record with several nice OOC wins. It is simply an analysis of our guard situation based on the past 4 games.

First, I do not understand why Triston Thompson earned the starting role but only plays 15 minutes per game. Thompson shoots 52%/2's, 43%/3's, and 100%/free throws. Dennis' super hot shooting racks up impressive numbers too: 48%/2's, 60%/3's, and 86%/free throws. Yet Triston averages only 15 minutes per game (and still manages to put up 7 ppg), and Dennis only 19 minutes (and average 15 ppg). And of course White is playing extremely good ball, but gets adequate minutes (32 min avg.). Meanwhile, McCoy, Willingham, and Bell have miserable shooting averages (below 30% on 2's and even worse on 3's), though Willingham is clutch on free throws and Bell is our assist leader.

We are very fortunate to be 3-0 with half our guards shooting so poorly. Thanks to White, Wooden, and Dennis’ big points, as well as Williams’ (and Wooden and Stewart to a smaller degree) rebounding we have won each game.

I believe the Thompson and Dennis should get extended playing time based on their performance thus far. The starting line should be Williams, Woodson, White, Dennis, and Thompson based on their performance in the first 4 games. I realize that Bell is a senior and has done a lot for our program, but this is not charity basketball. You either make your shots or get limited play until you do.

Re-read my concerns (especially the bolded one) given our poor shooting in our loss tonight.

[Talon90]

I want to make clear that this is NOT an attack on individual players, the team, or JJ. Obviously, JJ has done a lot right given our 3-0 record with several nice OOC wins. It is simply an analysis of our guard situation based on the past 4 games.

First, I do not understand why Triston Thompson earned the starting role but only plays 15 minutes per game. Thompson shoots 52%/2's, 43%/3's, and 100%/free throws. Dennis' super hot shooting racks up impressive numbers too: 48%/2's, 60%/3's, and 86%/free throws. Yet Triston averages only 15 minutes per game (and still manages to put up 7 ppg), and Dennis only 19 minutes (and average 15 ppg). And of course White is playing extremely good ball, but gets adequate minutes (32 min avg.). Meanwhile, McCoy, Willingham, and Bell have miserable shooting averages (below 30% on 2's and even worse on 3's), though Willingham is clutch on free throws and Bell is our assist leader.

We are very fortunate to be 3-0 with half our guards shooting so poorly. Thanks to White, Wooden, and Dennis’ big points, as well as Williams’ (and Wooden and Stewart to a smaller degree) rebounding we have won each game.

I believe the Thompson and Dennis should get extended playing time based on their performance thus far. The starting line should be Williams, Woodson, White, Dennis, and Thompson based on their performance in the first 4 games. I realize that Bell is a senior and has done a lot for our program, but this is not charity basketball. You either make your shots or get limited play until you do.

Chris I couldn't agree with you more. Ben has not played well this year and the younger guys have flat out played better. Ben has struggled in all aspects of his game and I hope he can turn it around. Maybe some time on the bench can help.

[TallGreen06]

You can't take completely different players and expect them to be interchangeable. I'm not going to go through the list because its been done, but Bell is a pure point guard. White is a scorer and a young guard trying to learn how to run a D1 offense. Past those two, we have a lot of guys filling different roles. Early season is always a see-saw until you find what works for your team. Guys may mature into roles later or drop out of them, but I don't think 4 games in is a time to start questioning. Starting doesn't mean a whole lot right now.

[chrisfisher]

You can't take completely different players and expect them to be interchangeable. I'm not going to go through the list because its been done, but Bell is a pure point guard. White is a scorer and a young guard trying to learn how to run a D1 offense. Past those two, we have a lot of guys filling different roles. Early season is always a see-saw until you find what works for your team. Guys may mature into roles later or drop out of them, but I don't think 4 games in is a time to start questioning. Starting doesn't mean a whole lot right now.

I was extremely concerned with the UTA game for a number of reasons I outlined when I initiated this thread. In addition, I posted in another thread after the Indiana State game that Dennis appeared to injure his ankle and may about out for upcoming games. Unfortunately all of my fears materialized for the UTA game where all of our guards, except White, shot extremely poorly. Free throws couldn't save us either because we abandoned the post game and jacked up missed 3's all night. Had Dennis played in this game, I have no doubt that we would have won. Our guards need to find their shot quickly especially with Dennis out, else we face more loses in the upcoming games. I really hope that Dennis recovers quickly..... we cannot win without him in our current situation.

Edited November 22, 2007 by chrisfisher

[mean green d]

If teams are going to make us shoot from the outside, we need to give more time to Thompson, McCoy and Dennis(when he gets back). I hope teams aren't just able to get in a zone and defeat us that easily. Development of the three players I mentioned is key to keeping the defense honest.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

Count me as another that agrees with Chris. I agree with his starting lineup and they should get the major PT. White and Bell have the most minutes and both are point guards. Bell can run the offense better but he is a liability as a scorer. White is a good scorer and his speed can ignite an offense but he hasn't learned to find the open man yet. He should in time; he just needs to gain experience. Play them both but not at the same time.

Wooden is our best player now and I hope that he maintains that pace. White needs to dish out more assists and reduce the turnovers. Williams needs to find last year's groove and lock in on that for the rest of the year. Thompson has good stats and needs to play more. Dennis has done well and just needs to stay healthy. Bell needs to play the point and shoot only when he is confident. McCoy and Willingham need to find their stroke and they can be just as effective as any of the starters. The rest of the bench is pulling their weight when called upon. Horne and Mantague may be the most talented walkons in our history.

This team should find its niche. When it does it will be something special.