Texas State

[KRAM1]

They want to do as little as possible in athletics to keep people like you and I connected to the school. If we win, great, but they damn sure will never go over budget to attempt to make that happen.

Our endowment shows that this strategy has worked brilliantly.

I can tell you how this can change, but it would take more than just constantly complaining on a message board.

[KRAM1]

Our low endownment is honestly one of our greatest weaknesses. It now takes 25K to start an endowed scholarship at UNT and you have 5 years to fill it. (My friends and I were lucky and got in just before it went up from 10K). If you have the means (or in combination with others) start an endowed scholarship. If you can't start one, give to one that already exists. I know most academic departments have endowments they are trying to complete. Seriously, give to them even if it is just few bucks.

True..but that means actually doing something positive and not continuing the UNT tradition of just letting someone else do it while continuing to gripe about everything that is UNT.

[DeepGreen]

Seems like a "Catch 22" situation at North Texas.

[DeepGreen]

Seriously, how would you like to have utsa's 2013 schedule in your 3rd year of football? And a member of CUSA.

Sat, Aug 31 New Mexico at Albuquerque, N.M.

Sat, Sep 07 Oklahoma State Alamodome (San Antonio, Texas)

Sat, Sep 14 Arizona at Tucson, Ariz.

Sat, Sep 21 UTEP * at El Paso, Texas

Sat, Sep 28 Houston Alamodome (San Antonio, Texas)

Sat, Oct 05 Marshall * at Huntington, W.Va.

Sat, Oct 12 Rice * Alamodome (San Antonio, Texas)

Sat, Oct 26 UAB * Alamodome (San Antonio, Texas)

Sat, Nov 02 Tulsa * at Tulsa, Okla.

Sat, Nov 09 Tulane * Alamodome (San Antonio, Texas)

Sat, Nov 23 North Texas * at Denton, Texas

Sat, Nov 30 Louisiana Tech * Alamodome (San Antonio, Texas)

I see utsa going 0-12.

Edited April 12, 2013 by DeepGreen

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Seriously, how would you like to have utsa's 2013 schedule in your 3rd year of football? And a member of CUSA.

Sat, Aug 31 New Mexico at Albuquerque, N.M.

Sat, Sep 07 Oklahoma State Alamodome (San Antonio, Texas)

Sat, Sep 14 Arizona at Tucson, Ariz.

Sat, Sep 21 UTEP * at El Paso, Texas

Sat, Sep 28 Houston Alamodome (San Antonio, Texas)

Sat, Oct 05 Marshall * at Huntington, W.Va.

Sat, Oct 12 Rice * Alamodome (San Antonio, Texas)

Sat, Oct 26 UAB * Alamodome (San Antonio, Texas)

Sat, Nov 02 Tulsa * at Tulsa, Okla.

Sat, Nov 09 Tulane * Alamodome (San Antonio, Texas)

Sat, Nov 23 North Texas * at Denton, Texas

Sat, Nov 30 Louisiana Tech * Alamodome (San Antonio, Texas)

I see utsa going 0-12.

Getting Oklahoma State at home is great for them. The Aggies have played in the Alamo Bowl a few times, so their fans are familiar with going to San Antonio. It also helps that Coker coached there back in the day. The guy never burned bridges.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Also, you have to accept that programs are going to pass us by. You just have to accept it.

I'm not even joking when I talk about Abilene Christian these days. They bump up to FCS this year and have many rich donors who are beginning to smell the reality of what type of money can come to a school through a good, visible athletic department. They've even got more players in the NFL than we do at this point. Sadly.

UTSA and Texas State...there will always be people here who pooh-pooh what they are doing. But, UTSA jumped right into our conference after a couple of years, and Texas State is aiming ever upward. I'm sure Banowsky will invite them into what someone here termed Sun Belt+. What other choice will he have?

We will sleep on all three as they become more competitive than us.

So...RELAX. You've thrown your support behind a school that is happy where it is. We had good times at the school when we attended it. We have the older old folk to depend on to tell us about the good ol' days when the football program was decent.

Let's just get out there tomorrow at the flag football game and be happy and content with what we've got: good memories of attending UNT. Just treat any athletic success we occassionally stumble into as temporary icing on the cake.

[Got5onIt]

Also, you have to accept that programs are going to pass us by. You just have to accept it.

I'm not even joking when I talk about Abilene Christian these days. They bump up to FCS this year and have many rich donors who are beginning to smell the reality of what type of money can come to a school through a good, visible athletic department. They've even got more players in the NFL than we do at this point. Sadly.

UTSA and Texas State...there will always be people here who pooh-pooh what they are doing. But, UTSA jumped right into our conference after a couple of years, and Texas State is aiming ever upward. I'm sure Banowsky will invite them into what someone here termed Sun Belt+. What other choice will he have?

We will sleep on all three as they become more competitive than us.

So...RELAX. You've thrown your support behind a school that is happy where it is. We had good times at the school when we attended it. We have the older old folk to depend on to tell us about the good ol' days when the football program was decent.

Let's just get out there tomorrow at the flag football game and be happy and content with what we've got: good memories of attending UNT. Just treat any athletic success we occassionally stumble into as temporary icing on the cake.

This makes Baby Football Jesus cry. Probably because it's so freakin' true.

[meangreener]

This whole thing is frustrating enough to make one want to root for UT...good lord. Our problems will be solved if we can WIN this season. I think if we continue down this path, UTSA will pass us by. TxState, on the other hand, is like a mirror image of us (athletically, not academically)...as in they do just enough to make it seem like the administration really cares...poor attendance (especially basketball), but I don't see TSSM doing much to pass us by. Especially in the Sun Belt. The ACU thing just has no validity behind it...just annoying pessimism.

I'm not okay with us sitting by and letting this happen. I can't take much more of this. It's just painful and embarrassing, to root for us, around my friends.

The solution is to MAKE A SPLASH THIS SEASON...or schools like UTSA will continue to pass us by. Mac cannot remain if we suck this year. Period. Tired of potential and sleeping giant BS. Get it done. I totally can see how so many UNT students just follow where their job takes them and forget their school here...at this point, if I ended up back in Houston, I have no clue how many games I'd waste my money on, when UNT puts no effort back into it...ala Benford (and if we suck, and give Mac another year).

[Wag Tag]

Also, you have to accept that programs are going to pass us by. You just have to accept it.

I'm not even joking when I talk about Abilene Christian these days. They bump up to FCS this year and have many rich donors who are beginning to smell the reality of what type of money can come to a school through a good, visible athletic department. They've even got more players in the NFL than we do at this point. Sadly.

UTSA and Texas State...there will always be people here who pooh-pooh what they are doing. But, UTSA jumped right into our conference after a couple of years, and Texas State is aiming ever upward. I'm sure Banowsky will invite them into what someone here termed Sun Belt+. What other choice will he have?

We will sleep on all three as they become more competitive than us.

So...RELAX. You've thrown your support behind a school that is happy where it is. We had good times at the school when we attended it. We have the older old folk to depend on to tell us about the good ol' days when the football program was decent.

Let's just get out there tomorrow at the flag football game and be happy and content with what we've got: good memories of attending UNT. Just treat any athletic success we occassionally stumble into as temporary icing on the cake.

Congrats!!! U r dead on!

[VideoEagle]

I guess "pass you by" means you won that year.

How many conference championships does UTSA have? How many players in the NFL Hall of Fame? How many former players went onto the NFL. How many bowls have they been in? How many times have players set NCAA records? In football tradition UTSA hasn't caught Trinity yet!

Based on TFLF's standard, Baylor must have passed both UT and OU.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

I guess "pass you by" means you won that year.

How many conference championships does UTSA have? How many players in the NFL Hall of Fame? How many former players went onto the NFL. How many bowls have they been in? How many times have players set NCAA records? In football tradition UTSA hasn't caught Trinity yet!

Based on TFLF's standard, Baylor must have passed both UT and OU.

No Baylor rode in on political coattails and got richly paid for being in a conference they contributed nothing to competitively for well over a decade. TCU fought and scratched for what they now have. There is a difference.

The older old Mean Greeners have more persecptive on this than either you or I. They watched former MVC mates take their third national championship in men's basketball - a big money maker. They see schools from back then ahead of us in football and basketball.

We all see former BIg West Boise State - with no "state full of stud football prospects" become feared among college football to the point where they have a hard time getting the traditional powers to schedule them.

We see start ups like South Florida come from nowhere and earn a place among the well paid BCS conferences. They are not left out and are wanted after about a decade of existence.

UNT? Our wheels spin. And, those of us who are into our third (and more) decade of following who recognize that our wheels are spinning are called negative. That's fine. I can live with that. Sorry that we call it like we see it.

The point is, we lack, and have lacked for some time now, the real urgency to succeed.

No biggie. We just accept things as they are now.

Edited April 12, 2013 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[UNT90]

Seriously, how would you like to have utsa's 2013 schedule in your 3rd year of football? And a member of CUSA.

Sat, Aug 31 New Mexico at Albuquerque, N.M.

Sat, Sep 07 Oklahoma State Alamodome (San Antonio, Texas)

Sat, Sep 14 Arizona at Tucson, Ariz.

Sat, Sep 21 UTEP * at El Paso, Texas

Sat, Sep 28 Houston Alamodome (San Antonio, Texas)

Sat, Oct 05 Marshall * at Huntington, W.Va.

Sat, Oct 12 Rice * Alamodome (San Antonio, Texas)

Sat, Oct 26 UAB * Alamodome (San Antonio, Texas)

Sat, Nov 02 Tulsa * at Tulsa, Okla.

Sat, Nov 09 Tulane * Alamodome (San Antonio, Texas)

Sat, Nov 23 North Texas * at Denton, Texas

Sat, Nov 30 Louisiana Tech * Alamodome (San Antonio, Texas)

I see utsa going 0-12.

I see them looking at Nov. 23rd as a winnable game.

[10Eagle10]

other than the following, I agree with the sentiments posted on here

This whole thing is frustrating enough to make one want to root for UT...

I will never root for the "flagship"

I've only been associated with our fine institution for about 7 years, but all of this is pretty depressing to think about. This guy's really hoping for a good 2013

[Runner]

I see them looking at Nov. 23rd as a winnable game.

I Think we can go 6-6 see you guys on Nov. 23rd.

[MeanGreenTexan]

I Think we can go 6-6 see you guys on Nov. 23rd.

You guys playing Bacon State 6 times before the season starts?

[PlummMeanGreen]

Also, you have to accept that programs are going to pass us by. You just have to accept it.

I'm not even joking when I talk about Abilene Christian these days. They bump up to FCS this year and have many rich donors who are beginning to smell the reality of what type of money can come to a school through a good, visible athletic department. They've even got more players in the NFL than we do at this point. Sadly.

UTSA and Texas State...there will always be people here who pooh-pooh what they are doing. But, UTSA jumped right into our conference after a couple of years, and Texas State is aiming ever upward. I'm sure Banowsky will invite them into what someone here termed Sun Belt+. What other choice will he have?

We will sleep on all three as they become more competitive than us.

So...RELAX. You've thrown your support behind a school that is happy where it is. We had good times at the school when we attended it. We have the older old folk to depend on to tell us about the good ol' days when the football program was decent.

Let's just get out there tomorrow at the flag football game and be happy and content with what we've got: good memories of attending UNT. Just treat any athletic success we occassionally stumble into as temporary icing on the cake.

TFLF has obviously been around the Mean Green scene long enough to know just how it's been. Sometimes being around something long enough

gives you a clearer perspective and the ability to see the trees for the forest. You who are emotionally bonded to those employed at North Texas will

most likely never be able to be objective about the very things that are keeping Mean Green athletics barefoot and pregnant (so to speak) and unsuccessful

as far as intercollegiate athletics on our alma mater's campus is concerned.

Spoke with another fellow UNT alum the other day and we remain amazed with how so many of you who post on this forum have in your entire lifetime

ever seen a Head Football Coach leave his North Texas career with an over .500 record and that sad fact leads to this............

..............why does there seem (as I read this forum) such a lock-step solidarity on some of your part to keep supporting that which has yet to work with trends indicating that we could very easily go another 5 to 10 years doing the same ol' thing?

Our membership in C-USA (albeit now a SBC 2.0 version) I think will be the necessary high powered microscope needed to show our future new leadership in the Hurley Admin Bldg that much of who and what we've had running the show will continue to not be effective. Also, I am talking more than just Dan McCarney's wins and losses for the next season or 2. That part is most strategic for us but just one slice of the pie of so many other things UNT must improve in to move this athletic program forward.

GMG!

PS: It also bothers me to read in an above post by an older UNT alum where even a Mean Green loss to UTSA this Fall will be an ender for him with this program and cost us one

of the best Mean Green fans and contributors we've had since the 1960's; in fact, his being a supporter before the Mean Joe Greene era. What bothers me even more is how I feel that

same attitude will snowball with many other alums if this initial CUSA football campaign is a bust or is not more than what we've seen the last 8 years. (Personally, I think we win 6 or 7 games this Fall but not sure what kind of national ranking this football program will have and if that is not on our radar of things to improve as a CUSA member then we will not have been considered a positive addition to this league).

Edited April 12, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[GL2Greatness]

This whole thing is frustrating enough to make one want to root for UT...good lord. Our problems will be solved if we can WIN this season. I think if we continue down this path, UTSA will pass us by. TxState, on the other hand, is like a mirror image of us (athletically, not academically)...as in they do just enough to make it seem like the administration really cares...poor attendance (especially basketball), but I don't see TSSM doing much to pass us by. Especially in the Sun Belt. The ACU thing just has no validity behind it...just annoying pessimism.

I'm not okay with us sitting by and letting this happen. I can't take much more of this. It's just painful and embarrassing, to root for us, around my friends.

The solution is to MAKE A SPLASH THIS SEASON...or schools like UTSA will continue to pass us by. Mac cannot remain if we suck this year. Period. Tired of potential and sleeping giant BS. Get it done. I totally can see how so many UNT students just follow where their job takes them and forget their school here...at this point, if I ended up back in Houston, I have no clue how many games I'd waste my money on, when UNT puts no effort back into it...ala Benford (and if we suck, and give Mac another year).

actually they are like a much younger much prettier version of north Texas

Texas State is in their first year od D1-A football, their stadium has already been expanded twice to over 30,000.....they sold it out for the first game.....they beat UH on the road for their first game at the D1-A level......they hired a name coach to start out.....they passed a student fee before any of that....they moved into a conference that is pretty much on the same level as the conference that north Texas worked nearly a decade to get into.....their average attendance was actually greater last year compared to north Texas and they had 6 home games VS 5.........they recruited better

http://247sports.com/Season/2013-Football/TeamRankings

http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=9&c=14&yr=2013

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/teamrank/2013/all/all;_ylt=Arxwujfd.JTyAPKcsPF4JndGPZB4

they had the exact same record 4-8 with the exact same level of competition and a win over a common opponent VS a loss to that opponent and they did all of that in their first year in D1-A not their 18th so the reality is they are making the moves right at the start of entering D1-A that north Texas waited a decade or more to try and make

they have hired a name basketball coach now with head coaching experience in the same state where he has strong ties.....they already have a baseball program and their athletics budget is just a few hundred dollars less and they still have a few more years of automatic 2 dollar increases to that student fee while north Texas has already not raised the fee the allowed 10% for one year and will probably not raise it again the next opportunity as well

so they are about 17 years ahead of the game as far as where they are VS north Texas

as for academics they successfully navigated a name change back in 2003 that has helped them greatly in recognition.....both are now emerging research universities.....endowments are pretty much identical.....their 4,5 and 6 year graduation rates are higher as is 6 years with persistance and they have a higher 1 and 2 year freshman retention rate

in the "critical" STEM fields they graduated 1 more CS major and 19 more engineering majors while north Texas graduated 22 more math majors and 19 more physical science majors and in nursing it was 82-0 Texas State

in passing the teacher certification exam in 2009 Texas State was 99% north Texas 98% in 2010 both were 97% and in 2011 it was 100% Texas State and north Texas 96%

in 2011 and 2012 they had significantly more research expenditures per full time faculty equivalent and in both years higher research expenditures overall and their 2015 "closing the gaps" target for research expenditures is $37,500 and they are at 97.8% of that while for north Texas it is $30,330 and north Texas is at 98.6% of that....so north texas is closer tot heir target goal, but the THECB has a much higher 2015 goal for TxState VS Denton "research university" and that is with TxState offering 10-12 total PhD programs while research university offers 35

TxState has a lower average class size and a lower median class size and they have a larger % of classes under students and a lower % of classes over 50 students and that is with a lower average tuition and fees

AUTOMATIC admission requirements are pretty much identical

http://www.admissions.txstate.edu/future/freshman/getting-accepted.html

http://apply.unt.edu/admissions

and Texas state has more dorm rooms on campus for fewer students which means they have a larger % of students living on campus

http://www.uh.edu/president/communications/university-community/fall-address-highlights/

so overall TxState and north Texas admit pretty much the exact same type of students and Texas State does a better job retaining them and graduationg them and helping them pass Teachers exams and even though they have just started to focus on research and offering a larger number of PhD programs they are doing more total research per faculty member, more total research overall and more restricted (competitively awarded) research and they have done a MUCH better job of obtaining accrediation for their new engineering programs and making sure that NO graduates of those programs were left with a degree that came from a program that was not properly accrediated (which makes it harder to obtain employment in engineering and means it takes you much longer to qualify to take the EIT and to become a PE) while north Texas has had at least one and possibly more mechanical engineering graduating classes graduate and not be included in a retroactive accrediation because north Texas did not do the things needed to obtain that ABET accrediation in a timely fashion and they are STILL working on it which means more graduates could be in danger of having the value of their degree lessoned

so while it is fun to pretend that a university is "shadowing" another or to pretend they are doing the same things (while ignoring that they are doing those things 17 years sooner) and it is fun to pretend that they are still Southwest Texas party school the reality is that comes at the detriment of understanding where north Texas is and it is all the worse when you don't even realize how similar (or how far ahead) the school you are trying to put down or ignore has become

[PlummMeanGreen]

In Living Color...........and just for TSU-SM enthusiasts GL2Greatness....

When I and most others critique our alma mater it is not with any degree of contempt whatsover (but maybe a little disappointment of our lack of success) or with the same (apparent) disdain that GL2Greatness seems to show in most of his or her's (do we really know? posts about most things concerning the University of North Texas.

What many of us who still care enough to do is post our concerns and just hope that UNT leaders will merely tweak or try a few things different from time to time if what we keep doing annually doesn't show any semblance of success or showing any such trends that what we do will be successful.
What's that definition of insanity once again?

I've been following TSU-SM's progress for about a decade now. Yes, they sold out their first game (which we did not albeit we would have had Texas Tech been our opponent) but TSU-SMU has had problems hitting the 20K attendance numbers for most of the last 10 years. Most Texas-based Go5 schools during their losing years (except UTSA)
most always draw less than stellar crowds.

Just like UNT will in my lifetime never catch SMU because of their history in NCAA D1.....it is still my belief that TSU-SM will never totally pass UNT long term. I will say that TSU-SM just hired 2 key mens varsity sports coaches this and last year who I think will pay off for them quickly but none of us on this board had any say with North Texas would interview and hire, now did we? Might have a few suggestions from this and Scotties's board have made our athletic department recovery quicker?

I also think TSU-SM will have problems in scheduling most Texas-based FBS football programs which is no stranger to North Texas. You think UT-Austin will ever schedule the those Fightin' Bobcats? I don't............and I remember when North Texas was the first Non BCS type school that did get on the Longhorn schedule back in the mid 70's and it seems the Longhorns still want to tee it up looking at our future football schedule.

Edited April 13, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[KRAM1]

No Baylor rode in on political coattails and got richly paid for being in a conference they contributed nothing to competitively for well over a decade. TCU fought and scratched for what they now have. There is a difference.

The older old Mean Greeners have more persecptive on this than either you or I. They watched former MVC mates take their third national championship in men's basketball - a big money maker. They see schools from back then ahead of us in football and basketball.

We all see former BIg West Boise State - with no "state full of stud football prospects" become feared among college football to the point where they have a hard time getting the traditional powers to schedule them.

We see start ups like South Florida come from nowhere and earn a place among the well paid BCS conferences. They are not left out and are wanted after about a decade of existence.

UNT? Our wheels spin. And, those of us who are into our third (and more) decade of following who recognize that our wheels are spinning are called negative. That's fine. I can live with that. Sorry that we call it like we see it.

The point is, we lack, and have lacked for some time now, the real urgency to succeed.

No biggie. We just accept things as they are now.

No, Lonnie...we lacked the resources and the support. That's changing, but it won't happen overnight because we have way too many who think support is bitching on some message board and finding whatever lame excuse they can for not supporting the program. Until the support "grows up and becomes bigger time" it will be a slow go...we'll get there, just very slowly. Some folks cannot see the forest for the trees it seems. It's really OK if they don't. We'll get there, just much more slowly...that can change too. And seems to be all over the campus. Some will not ever decide to actually see the positives around them...that's OK as well. Others will, and UNT will build with those others. Personal choice to make.

[DeepGreen]

Gl2Greatness said, ".they beat UH on the road for their first game at the D1-A level....."

And UNT beat PAC10 member Oregon State our first year back in D1A. Not on the road, and probably a weak Oregon State back in 1995, but they were still Pac 10 member, regardless.

Edited April 13, 2013 by DeepGreen

[KRAM1]

I was thinking, "why is there a 4 page thread on Texas State? No one gives a damn about them."

Right. 1 post on tx st and 4 pages of a "we suck" bitchfest and dealing with GLG. F'in brillant, folks.

So true, so very true! Alas it has come to this!