Head Coach Salary

[wardly]

i don't begrudge jj a dime, as he has built an excellent program the past 10 years. however, attendance still hovers at about 3500 per game. for the sake of discussion, assume that 1,500 are students, and 2,000 are paying customers[i realize there is a student athletic fee, but i'm talking about gate receipts]. how much can north texas afford to pay a head coach? should it matter? with all the cost cuts in higher education in Texas, should athletics be held to a different standard? bottom line:is it ok to pay big bucks to a head coach whose program appears to loose money? just asking.

[drex]

Yes....I'll get back to you later with details.

[SUMG]

i don't begrudge jj a dime, as he has built an excellent program the past 10 years. however, attendance still hovers at about 3500 per game. for the sake of discussion, assume that 1,500 are students, and 2,000 are paying customers[i realize there is a student athletic fee, but i'm talking about gate receipts]. how much can north texas afford to pay a head coach? should it matter? with all the cost cuts in higher education in Texas, should athletics be held to a different standard? bottom line:is it ok to pay big bucks to a head coach whose program appears to loose money? just asking.

Can I just throw this in: How can anyone quantify the amount of national publicity that JJ has gotten the school (twice). When you get into the NCAA tourney, your school's name is in papers and on millions of NCAA brackets that people fill out. So how much is that worth? Lots.

So all in all, I don't think you could say our program costs the school money. It probably makes the school money....but once again there's no way to quantify it. (I do know of students who've chosen NT because they saw us in a bowl game or in the NCAA tourney, for example).

Edited February 27, 2011 by SUMG

[greenminer]

Didn't someone say we made more money off one NCAA bid than all 4 bowl trips combined? Maybe I'm wrong.

[Mean Green Matt]

When I saw the title of this thread I was almost positive it would be about Shanice Stephens...

[Maduro]

just as long as we are not giving out half million dollar bonuses while attendance is drastically falling like Tech. apparently, tuberville had a clause that earned him that much to simply "not leave".

didnt we have the highest average attendance in the conference this year?

[Mean Green Matt]

didnt we have the highest average attendance in the conference this year?

No. We had a shot at it but other schools had some big crowds late in the year.

We came in fourth overall (all home games), and in third if you only count Sun Belt Conference Games.

Overall:

1. ULL - 3919

2. WKU - 3821

3. MTSU - 3640

4. UNT - 3552

Conference Games:

1. ULL - 4742

2. ASU - 3832

3. UNT - 3716

[BonfireBrian]

Can I just throw this in: How can anyone quantify the amount of national publicity that JJ has gotten the school (twice). When you get into the NCAA tourney, your school's name is in papers and on millions of NCAA brackets that people fill out. So how much is that worth? Lots.

So all in all, I don't think you could say our program costs the school money. It probably makes the school money....but once again there's no way to quantify it. (I do know of students who've chosen NT because they saw us in a bowl game or in the NCAA tourney, for example).

Very well said. I remember watching the 2001 New Orleans Bowl game on ESPN my senior year of high school. I decided about one month later to attend UNT. I'm not sure that I went to UNT only because of that bowl game, but it sure did help.

[foutsrouts]

Personally, based on next year's recruiting class, I think loose money in regard to JJ is a good thing.

[wardly]

Didn't someone say we made more money off one NCAA bid than all 4 bowl trips combined? Maybe I'm wrong.

probably very true, but that doesn't mean that the bb program turned a profit that year. it probably just lost less.

[MDH]

Very well said. I remember watching the 2001 New Orleans Bowl game on ESPN my senior year of high school. I decided about one month later to attend UNT. I'm not sure that I went to UNT only because of that bowl game, but it sure did help.

I transferred to UNT from a school in Canada. I had only heard of UNT because I was a huge college football fan and I had remembered their long streak of success and trips to the NO bowl. I had to chose between Texas St, UNT and TTU and look where I ended up. Best decision of my life!

[wardly]

No. We had a shot at it but other schools had some big crowds late in the year.

We came in fourth overall (all home games), and in third if you only count Sun Belt Conference Games.

Overall:

1. ULL - 3919

2. WKU - 3821

3. MTSU - 3640

4. UNT - 3552

Conference Games:

1. ULL - 4742

2. ASU - 3832

3. UNT - 3716

which bodes another question; who should the 4th largest university in texas with 36,000 students compair their bb attendance to? the belt? tt,uh, sfa,utsa,uta?

[Maduro]

ULL must have invited the elementary dribbling team from lewisville along with their families a few times.

[untjim1995]

which bodes another question; who should the 4th largest university in texas with 36,000 students compair their bb attendance to? the belt? tt,uh, sfa,utsa,uta?

Well, lets see how Tech's attendance would be if they got to play SBC schools instead of Big XII schools, especially big schools in Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas. Then, look at UH and see how they do with SBC scheduling versus CUSA scheduling. BTW, UH doesn't do that great, either in attendance when you factor in their enrollment, too. Finally, how would our attendance look if we were in CUSA, since we know that the Big XII is obvious? I contend that we would average more, but it wouldn't be 6000 or something, but we would average between 4k and 5k in CUSA.

[Mean Green Matt]

Well, lets see how Tech's attendance would be if they got to play SBC schools instead of Big XII schools, especially big schools in Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas. Then, look at UH and see how they do with SBC scheduling versus CUSA scheduling. BTW, UH doesn't do that great, either in attendance when you factor in their enrollment, too. Finally, how would our attendance look if we were in CUSA, since we know that the Big XII is obvious? I contend that we would average more, but it wouldn't be 6000 or something, but we would average between 4k and 5k in CUSA.

If we were in CUSA, playing the better "name recognition" teams consistently would definitely raise our attendance. I think the minimum we would average in a year in CUSA would be 5k. If we somehow got invited to the Big 12 tomorrow, we would never see less than 7k at the Super Pit, and that is conservative.

[wardly]

Well, lets see how Tech's attendance would be if they got to play SBC schools instead of Big XII schools, especially big schools in Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas. Then, look at UH and see how they do with SBC scheduling versus CUSA scheduling. BTW, UH doesn't do that great, either in attendance when you factor in their enrollment, too. Finally, how would our attendance look if we were in CUSA, since we know that the Big XII is obvious? I contend that we would average more, but it wouldn't be 6000 or something, but we would average between 4k and 5k in CUSA.

but we are not in cusa, and won't be as long as smu is. we are in the belt, and our real number is 3,500. if playing in the belt hurts bb attendance, what will it do to football in our new stadium? probably question for another day.

[untjim1995]

but we are not in cusa, and won't be as long as smu is. we are in the belt, and our real number is 3,500. if playing in the belt hurts bb attendance, what will it do to football in our new stadium? probably question for another day.

I agree on the CUSA/SMU deal, too. But the question was who should we compare ourselves against, but none of the schools listed were SBC schools. As far as football is concerned, we will draw ok in the SBC (average around 20-25k per year) in the new stadium just because football in Texas is always going to be king and we will not always be a bottom-dwellar of the SBC. But make no mistake about it, being in the SBC does affect attendance negatively in all sports. There's nothing we can do about it, but it is an albatross around the ADs neck. We really need the SBC to get back up again in men's hoops, as it was the only sport that helped our league get some respect in a revenue sport when we were having success in the Tournament.

[Mean Green Matt]

but we are not in cusa, and won't be as long as smu is. we are in the belt, and our real number is 3,500. if playing in the belt hurts bb attendance, what will it do to football in our new stadium? probably question for another day.

SMU does not by themselves have the power to keep us out of CUSA. They will need help. I'm not saying we will get invited, but when all the big time shifting goes down (if it does), there is a chance that SMU will not be able to do anything about it. As far as out football attendance, it is more about team success than who we play. Obviously it would help if we played in the Big 12, but if we put together a team that can win OOC games and go to bowl games, there is no reason we can't sell out every game...even in the Sun Belt.

Edited February 28, 2011 by Mean Green Matt

[Mean Green Matt]

I agree on the CUSA/SMU deal, too. But the question was who should we compare ourselves against, but none of the schools listed were SBC schools. As far as football is concerned, we will draw ok in the SBC (average around 20-25k per year) in the new stadium just because football in Texas is always going to be king and we will not always be a bottom-dwellar of the SBC. But make no mistake about it, being in the SBC does affect attendance negatively in all sports. There's nothing we can do about it, but it is an albatross around the ADs neck. We really need the SBC to get back up again in men's hoops, as it was the only sport that helped our league get some respect in a revenue sport when we were having success in the Tournament.

For football attendance this year I think we will average over 25,000. Houston and Indiana will likely both be sellouts (or close), and if we are winning some football games, the students and fans will all jump on the bandwagon. Keep in mind that Coach Mccarney is already out talking to students (greek life in particular), to get them on board.

Now for the important part. Football success is going to have an ENORMOUS spill over impact onto basketball attendance. Students are excited about the stadium, and new freshmen coming to UNT in particular are going to have fun at those football games (moreso than Fouts) and will immediately look to other UNT sports. That will happen even if the football team is losing. If we win 6 games this year, campus is going to go bonkers, and our fantasic incoming class of basketball players are going to be playing in front of the largest and rowdiest crowds UNT has seen in awhile. All of it is interconnected. This new "generation" of UNT students is going to spend their time at UNT in a different athletic climate than the rest of us, and that will show in attendance number and school spirit.

Right now we need to compare ourselves probably to the CUSA schools in the region. It is very important for perception that we can compete on the field with them, and in attendance.

[UNTMike81]

UNT's BB attendance was hurt because a 16-2 went to sleep at the wheel and drove the sports car in the ditch. Record gets attendance. Only true die hard fans will go watch a good team run out of gas, throw games, or just plain not show up, and play way under their potential. Simply put, if we'd have kept to our winning ways our attendance would have ended up much better!!!

[wardly]

UNT's BB attendance was hurt because a 16-2 went to sleep at the wheel and drove the sports car in the ditch. Record gets attendance. Only true die hard fans will go watch a good team run out of gas, throw games, or just plain not show up, and play way under their potential. Simply put, if we'd have kept to our winning ways our attendance would have ended up much better!!!

we averaged same the 2 years when we went to ncaa's, so i tend to discount our recent slump as reason for poor attendance. also, when we won 4 belt football championships in a row i don't remember a spike in basketball attendance ,so i tend to discount that logic also. it just appears to me that the 4th largest university in the state should be compaired to other large state schools, such as houston and tech. susprisingly we do about as well as houston, but not in ballpark when it comes to tech or utep. perhaps our benchmark should be utsa and uta. those schools are of simular size, either are or were commuter schools,play in a conference simular to ours in basketball,and are in large metropolitian markets. it would make us look good, but certainly is not where we want to be.again, just an old mans opinion.

[NT03]

UNT's BB attendance was hurt because a 16-2 went to sleep at the wheel and drove the sports car in the ditch. Record gets attendance. Only true die hard fans will go watch a good team run out of gas, throw games, or just plain not show up, and play way under their potential. Simply put, if we'd have kept to our winning ways our attendance would have ended up much better!!!

We were never 16 - 2 nor did we pull a Toldeo on any games.

Way under potential ? No. Maybe the bar was set too high for those who thought after we beat Tech we'd somehow wind up in the top 25 or something. This team lost it's best player last season in Tramiel , maybe the best player we've had in a decade. We lost Mangrum,Alzee,Holmen & Spencer and McGhee didn't qualify. Those were replaced with DoMo and JUCO transfer who needs knee surgery. We were short handed going into this season. Way under potential hardly , but under expectations yes. I knew going in we wouldn't be better , but I thought with the experience we had it could make up for a lot. Looking at the big picture we are still 18 - 10 and the conference championship is wide open. Outside of Troy,ULM & FIU I wouldn't call it a real shock who winds up winning it all. Sad part is we could be 26 - 2 and still be hard pressed to get 6,000 in the seats

Edited February 28, 2011 by NT03

[Mean Green Matt]

we averaged same the 2 years when we went to ncaa's, so i tend to discount our recent slump as reason for poor attendance. also, when we won 4 belt football championships in a row i don't remember a spike in basketball attendance ,so i tend to discount that logic also. it just appears to me that the 4th largest university in the state should be compaired to other large state schools, such as houston and tech. susprisingly we do about as well as houston, but not in ballpark when it comes to tech or utep. perhaps our benchmark should be utsa and uta. those schools are of simular size, either are or were commuter schools,play in a conference simular to ours in basketball,and are in large metropolitian markets. it would make us look good, but certainly is not where we want to be.again, just an old mans opinion.

There are two reasons there was not a spike in basketball attendance then:

1. The campus culture was completely different than it is now. We were a huge school back then, and even during those years we did not average what we averaged for football this year. The campus is ever becoming more and more pro-athletics.

2. Our basketball team was not great back then, and that killed off the spill over attendance that they could have had.

A winning football team will help the basketball team out a lot.

[untjim1995]

There are two reasons there was not a spike in basketball attendance then:

1. The campus culture was completely different than it is now. We were a huge school back then, and even during those years we did not average what we averaged for football this year. The campus is ever becoming more and more pro-athletics.

2. Our basketball team was not great back then, and that killed off the spill over attendance that they could have had.

A winning football team will help the basketball team out a lot.

I tend to agree with what you posted here. The culture, although slower than we all wish, is moving toward a more spirited campus amongst a growing core of students and faculty. When we won in the early stages of the SBC, most fans looked at the collection of schools in that conference as a glorified 1-aa league. The gameplan for those games, no matter who we played, seemed to always be run-run-run-punt, then go back on defense. When we had a great defense, we won with that system against lesser-talented teams. Most fans recognized this, so they didn't really get all that into a big SBC championship run, for the most part. If we start winning again, we will see a bigger jump in attendance, which will help the entire athletic department.

As far as basketball goes, what most fail to recognize is that college basketball is not all that popular in the state of Texas, unless you are winning big. Even then, its a crapshoot sometimes (see A&M and their support this year of a ranked team.) Texas has had trouble getting attendance to watch a great program play lesser teams. Tech is even worse, attendance-wise, unless they are winning big. I really believe that a lot of people are missing the boat on college basketball and its entertainment value during the regular season, but that is probably another story. The point I want to make is that we have improved our attendance over the last 5 years--with very little help from the league we play in--and there are few schools in the state that can say that. As a matter of fact, I would challenge any of the Big XII or CUSA schools in this state to see how their attendance would be if they got ULaLa, ULaMon, F_U, Denver, etc..to play conference games with them and we got Kansas, K-State, Mizzou, Oklahoma, and OSU, as conference mates. It would make us all laugh to have to see Baylor host Troy for a conference game or SMU to host ULM for a conference game while we got to play Kansas at the Pit. It will never happen, but its why I think attendance issues for UNT are apples/oranges when compared to other schools in the state.

[foutsrouts]

SMU does not by themselves have the power to keep us out of CUSA.

All it takes is the greasing of the right hands to be very powerful. Of course I'm not saying they would do that, but there is a history.