Fordham (12/10/23)

[GMoney]

45 minutes ago, CMJ said:

We had more sustained droughts last season than this year.  We didn't have any eight minute droughts today where we didn't score at all.  Yes, we had stretches where we didn't score much, but we never went 7-8 minutes with zero points.  Everyone deals with the droughts, you just have to keep them to 3-4 minutes, not longer.

 

My main concern is our inability to make winning plays down he stretch.  The difference between teams that win close games consistently and lose close games is mostly in the head and in the heart. 

I'll agree with you that I'm exaggerate a little on the time.  However, just looking at St. Johns in 2nd half we went from 8:50 to 5:37 w/no points (fg or ft) and the final 2 minutes with no fg/ft. NIU, no made fgs final 6:33 of 2nd half (4fts).

Yes, we need to find a way to win close games down the stretch, but we shouldn't consistently be in those situations either.

Edited December 10, 2023 by GMoney

[Travis]

10 minutes ago, BleedingGreen said:

This is a confidence issue coupled with a get your own shot / late game dribble penetration issue .  Kai had the ability get a shot late with his size and post up game plus TP clutch shooting. 

The bottom line is that Allen/Sissoko, Buggs and Edwards simply doesn’t replace Abou, Kai, and Perry. These replacements bring the level of play down compared to years past. 

[CMJ]

9 minutes ago, GMoney said:

I'll agree with you that I'm exaggerate a little on the time.  However, just looking at St. Johns in 2nd half we went from 8:50 to 5:37 w/no points (fg or ft) and the final 2 minutes with no fg/ft.

Yes, we need to find a way to win close games down the stretch, but we shouldn't consistently be in those situations either.

I would agree that we have scoring droughts, but teams do.  They just do.  Fordham also went several minutes without scoring once or twice today.  Hell, look at some of our scoring droughts last season or the year before (say in that famous Wisconsin game last year where we held them scoreless like the last 9 minutes of the game...we NEEDED to because we scored all of ten points in that long stretch ourselves).  I watched the UCLA/Villanova game last night and both of those squads had 3-4 minute stretches of looking inept on offense.  

 

We need to get mentally tough at the end of games.  That was something we have had in spades in recent years.  

 

 

[HoosMeanGreen]

1 hour ago, Matt from A700 said:

Big shot by Rubin but a few more misses since puts him at 2-12 shooting today.

I hate to instigate, but when Rubin is the point, the ball does not get to Edwards. I wonder if there is any bad blood or lack of trust still there.

Hello Edwards Mom or Dad,

I've asked this same question.  Don't allow the down votes to get to you - it is more than obvious.  There is no bad blood between the players as they barely know each other.  Rubin has "waited" his turn and the last thing he is about to have happen is another small guard come in and steal all the glory.  This is Rubin's team and it will be shared with A-Scott and A-Scott alone.  The JUCO kid needs to go back to JUCO.  Rubin will turn the ball over before giving it to Edwards.  Not sure when you first realized this, but I dare you to go back and watch prior games armed with this opinion.  You think you are "wondering" now - you will be pissed because a couple of those losses will become wins in your mind.

 "Never allow facts to get in the way of a good story!" - Professor Radojavic           

[HoosMeanGreen]

15 minutes ago, Travis said:

The bottom line is that Allen/Sissoko, Buggs and Edwards simply doesn’t replace Abou, Kai, and Perry. These replacements bring the level of play down compared to years past. 

You mean Allen/Sissoko, Buggs, and NOLAND simply doesn’t replace Abou, Kai, and Perry. These replacements bring the level of play down compared to years past. Edwards does not start and cannot nor should not be compared to last years starters.   

Boise State - Buggs 0 Noland 12 (1st Half 10 2nd Half 2)

Fordham - Noland 0 Buggs 8 (1st Half 6 2nd Half 2)

My new signature line for the season "Never allow facts to get in the way of a good story!"  

[Travis]

47 minutes ago, HoosMeanGreen said:

You mean Allen/Sissoko, Buggs, and NOLAND simply doesn’t replace Abou, Kai, and Perry. These replacements bring the level of play down compared to years past. Edwards does not start and cannot nor should not be compared to last years starters.   

Boise State - Buggs 0 Noland 12 (1st Half 10 2nd Half 2)

Fordham - Noland 0 Buggs 8 (1st Half 6 2nd Half 2)

My new signature line for the season "Never allow facts to get in the way of a good story!"  

Fair enough. 

[emmitt01]

1 hour ago, HoosMeanGreen said:

You mean Allen/Sissoko, Buggs, and NOLAND simply doesn’t replace Abou, Kai, and Perry. These replacements bring the level of play down compared to years past. Edwards does not start and cannot nor should not be compared to last years starters.   

Boise State - Buggs 0 Noland 12 (1st Half 10 2nd Half 2)

Fordham - Noland 0 Buggs 8 (1st Half 6 2nd Half 2)

My new signature line for the season "Never allow facts to get in the way of a good story!"  

Since we’re absolving Edwards of responsibility for our current play, let’s get a couple facts out in the open.  
 

- Starting, on this team, is irrelevant.  Edwards may not start, but he’s getting starter’s minutes.   He averages more minutes than both Buggs and Sissoko. 
 

- Edwards shoots 40.2% from the field and 30.4% from 3 this year.  Buggs shoots 40.5% and 35.3%, Noland is at 41.1% and 39.1%, and Rubin Jones shoots just north of 40% from two and three.   So, if we’re going to talk about being a poor replacement for last year’s starters and how Rubin doesn’t pass to prevent someone “stealing his glory”…shouldn’t we consider whether the guy who might “steal the glory” does or does not make the shots they are given???

Or am I letting facts get in the way of your story???

 

[BigWillie]

19 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

Since we’re absolving Edwards of responsibility for our current play, let’s get a couple facts out in the open.  
 

- Starting, on this team, is irrelevant.  Edwards may not start, but he’s getting starter’s minutes.   He averages more minutes than both Buggs and Sissoko. 
 

- Edwards shoots 40.2% from the field and 30.4% from 3 this year.  Buggs shoots 40.5% and 35.3%, Noland is at 41.1% and 39.1%, and Rubin Jones shoots just north of 40% from two and three.   So, if we’re going to talk about being a poor replacement for last year’s starters and how Rubin doesn’t pass to prevent someone “stealing his glory”…shouldn’t we consider whether the guy who might “steal the glory” does or does not make the shots they are given???

Or am I letting facts get in the way of your story???

 

And to be fair, Edwards had the last shot to put this game away and missed it. I don't blame him, just saying he got the chance. Also,the end of the last game where he made the bone head move to go to the basket with a lead and got blocked.

Thats all to say, we just don't have a closer like TP. The more I watch these close games turn into losses, it shows just how many games we won last year because of TP.

[GMG_Dallas]

Outside of Perry's knack for hitting the late shot, I actually think our transfers have done a pretty good job at filling the holes with the exception of post presence. Don't know what's up with Sissoko but I'm going to reject the notion that Ousmane would be doing any better.

I'd like to see Buggs get more shots. Edwards off the bench is a perfect place for him due to his ability to get to the rim and more importantly, get to the line and shoot efficiently from free throws. Edwards is arguably our best free throw shooter and he by far leads the team in attempts, he has 39 and the next closest is Allen with 24.

We've lost 4 games by a combined 11 points. I'm not going to put the blame on any player but I will put the blame on the coaching staff. I feel as though they need to take a step back and better identify the roles of each player. Some guys should have a green light from 3 but Edwards is not one of them. I would, however, better trust Edwards getting to the rim than just about anybody else on the team which is why I'd want him off the bench to break down the defense when they're clamping down on the perimeter. Again, it's up to the coaches to help them because the talent is there but adjustments have to be made.

[HoosMeanGreen]

3 hours ago, GMoney said:

I'll agree with you that I'm exaggerate a little on the time.  However, just looking at St. Johns in 2nd half we went from 8:50 to 5:37 w/no points (fg or ft) and the final 2 minutes with no fg/ft. NIU, no made fgs final 6:33 of 2nd half (4fts).

Yes, we need to find a way to win close games down the stretch, but we shouldn't consistently be in those situations either.

Why are we consistently in those (close game) situations? The starting lineup needs to change.

Rubin-Scott-Buggs-Allen-Stone. Allen for reasons a blind man could see. Stone because you need a player that does the dirty work. More than adequate scoring among the other 4. Sub Rubin, Buggs, Stone/Allen depending on foul count. The sub package needs to include someone other than Edwards/Sissoko/Noland. There must be someone on the bench that is capable of not giving up middle & making a shot.

- Never allow facts to get in the way of a good story.

[Travis]

1 hour ago, emmitt01 said:

Since we’re absolving Edwards of responsibility for our current play, let’s get a couple facts out in the open.  
 

- Starting, on this team, is irrelevant.  Edwards may not start, but he’s getting starter’s minutes.   He averages more minutes than both Buggs and Sissoko. 
 

- Edwards shoots 40.2% from the field and 30.4% from 3 this year.  Buggs shoots 40.5% and 35.3%, Noland is at 41.1% and 39.1%, and Rubin Jones shoots just north of 40% from two and three.   So, if we’re going to talk about being a poor replacement for last year’s starters and how Rubin doesn’t pass to prevent someone “stealing his glory”…shouldn’t we consider whether the guy who might “steal the glory” does or does not make the shots they are given???

Or am I letting facts get in the way of your story???

 

This is where I was going with it. And thank you!

[HoosMeanGreen]

1 hour ago, emmitt01 said:

Since we’re absolving Edwards of responsibility for our current play, let’s get a couple facts out in the open.  
 

- Starting, on this team, is irrelevant.  Edwards may not start, but he’s getting starter’s minutes.   He averages more minutes than both Buggs and Sissoko. 
 

- Edwards shoots 40.2% from the field and 30.4% from 3 this year.  Buggs shoots 40.5% and 35.3%, Noland is at 41.1% and 39.1%, and Rubin Jones shoots just north of 40% from two and three.   So, if we’re going to talk about being a poor replacement for last year’s starters and how Rubin doesn’t pass to prevent someone “stealing his glory”…shouldn’t we consider whether the guy who might “steal the glory” does or does not make the shots they are given???

Or am I letting facts get in the way of your story???

 

No one is absolving anyone. But allow me to retort. Starting must mean something because we are now at 4 close losses and the starting lineup has not changed. The unofficial definition of insanity comes to mind. I'm so new to UNT that I am not sure if the following is true, but if so God help us. Once UNT decides on a starting lineup it will only change due to illness/injury. Someone please tell me that this is myth. If it is true - Houston we have a problem. Starting means something when you bring your leading scorer off the bench. Why not be up 13 at the half instead of 12? Why purposely keep your weapon on the bench? Losses by 1 - 4 - 5 - 1 make me question this strategy. As for minutes played....they lead into your stats & makes/misses. This was already covered.

He isn't a part of the offense (someone asked earlier 'what is the offense'). He shoots whatever he can get because he has no idea if or when he will get the opportunity again. I called those hurried & bad, but I understand why even if I don't agree with it. Someone other than me noticed how the PG doesn't pass to him. He suggested bad blood or no trust. Irrelevant - PG needs to do his job. Find and hit the open man! Today you got decent splits from #2 and a PG that was not so good.  

I am basing my opinion on experience & what I am seeing. I did not like every guy I played with. It happens. Up to CRH to figure out how to handle it. I saw it - someone else saw it - and if it continues then others will see it. Then what? 

Missing that last shot happened & will happen again. Instead of wishing for a miracle shot at the end of every game, how about wishing for a lead greater than or equal to 4 on the final possession. Make that 5 because we committed 3 fouls on made 3 pt shots vs Boise State. SMH

- Don't let facts get in the way of a good story.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by HoosMeanGreen
Spell check

[GMG_Dallas]

Minutes and field goal makes/attempts in our losses:

Fordham

Jones 35 minutes 3/16, Edwards 31 minutes 5/10

Boise State

Jones 30 minutes 6/13, Edwards 27 minutes 6/16

LSU

Jones 38 minutes 5/16, Edwards 32 minutes 5/13

St John's

Jones 29 minutes 3/10, Edwards 29 minutes 3/11

Wins:

Miss Valley State

Jones 29 minutes 6/10, Edwards 24 minutes 3/8

Angelo State

Jones 24 minutes 2/8, Edwards 25 minutes 3/10

Towson

Jones 29 minutes 4/8, Edwards 27 minutes 6/11

Omaha

Jones 37 minutes 4/10, Edwards 11 minutes 1/3

Northern Iowa

Jones 36 minutes 5/11, Edwards 24 minutes 6/10.

On the season, Jones has 86 field goal attempts. Edwards has 82. Scott has 86 and the next closest is Noland at 56. What's the point of all this? Our point guards are shooting too much.

[BigWillie]

5 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Minutes and field goal makes/attempts in our losses:

Fordham

Jones 35 minutes 3/16, Edwards 31 minutes 5/10

Boise State

Jones 30 minutes 6/13, Edwards 27 minutes 6/16

LSU

Jones 38 minutes 5/16, Edwards 32 minutes 5/13

St John's

Jones 29 minutes 3/10, Edwards 29 minutes 3/11

Wins:

Miss Valley State

Jones 29 minutes 6/10, Edwards 24 minutes 3/8

Angelo State

Jones 24 minutes 2/8, Edwards 25 minutes 3/10

Towson

Jones 29 minutes 4/8, Edwards 27 minutes 6/11

Omaha

Jones 37 minutes 4/10, Edwards 11 minutes 1/3

Northern Iowa

Jones 36 minutes 5/11, Edwards 24 minutes 6/10.

On the season, Jones has 86 field goal attempts. Edwards has 82. Scott has 86 and the next closest is Noland at 56. What's the point of all this? Our point guards are shooting too much.

We are guard strong. That's our biggest offense. Only A Scott has any offense outside of our guards.

[HoosMeanGreen]

19 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Minutes and field goal makes/attempts in our losses:

Fordham

Jones 35 minutes 3/16, Edwards 31 minutes 5/10

Boise State

Jones 30 minutes 6/13, Edwards 27 minutes 6/16

LSU

Jones 38 minutes 5/16, Edwards 32 minutes 5/13

St John's

Jones 29 minutes 3/10, Edwards 29 minutes 3/11

Wins:

Miss Valley State

Jones 29 minutes 6/10, Edwards 24 minutes 3/8

Angelo State

Jones 24 minutes 2/8, Edwards 25 minutes 3/10

Towson

Jones 29 minutes 4/8, Edwards 27 minutes 6/11

Omaha

Jones 37 minutes 4/10, Edwards 11 minutes 1/3

Northern Iowa

Jones 36 minutes 5/11, Edwards 24 minutes 6/10.

On the season, Jones has 86 field goal attempts. Edwards has 82. Scott has 86 and the next closest is Noland at 56. What's the point of all this? Our point guards are shooting too much.

The bigs are meh! At best! 

- Never allow facts to get in the way of a good story.

[GMG_Dallas]

16 minutes ago, BigWillie said:

We are guard strong. That's our biggest offense. Only A Scott has any offense outside of our guards.

I disagree. And there's no reason for any player to be shooting 13+ times in a game unless they're on fire.

[HoosMeanGreen]

3 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

I disagree. And there's no reason for any player to be shooting 13+ times in a game unless they're on fire.

Define on fire. If I am 6 for 12 can I shoot #13?

- Never allow facts to get in the way of a good story.

[BigWillie]

9 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

I disagree. And there's no reason for any player to be shooting 13+ times in a game unless they're on fire.

Do you watch much basketball? It is pretty standard for your better offensive players to get this many shots.

[Travis]

41 minutes ago, HoosMeanGreen said:

No one is absolving anyone. But allow me to retort. Starting must mean something because we are now at 4 close losses and the starting lineup has not changed. The unofficial definition of insanity comes to mind. I'm so new to UNT that I am not sure if the following is true, but if so God help us. Once UNT decides on a starting lineup it will only change due to illness/injury. Someone please tell me that this is myth. If it is true - Houston we have a problem. Starting means something when you bring your leading scorer off the bench. Why not be up 13 at the half instead of 12? Why purposely keep your weapon on the bench? Losses by 1 - 4 - 5 - 1 make me question this strategy. As for minutes played....they lead into your stats & makes/misses. This was already covered.

He isn't a part of the offense (someone asked earlier 'what is the offense'). He shoots whatever he can get because he has no idea if or when he will get the opportunity again. I called those hurried & bad, but I understand why even if I don't agree with it. Someone other than me noticed how the PG doesn't pass to him. He suggested bad blood or no trust. Irrelevant - PG needs to do his job. Find and hit the open man! Today you got decent splits from #2 and a PG that was not so good.  

I am basing my opinion on experience & what I am seeing. I did not like every guy I played with. It happens. Up to CRH to figure out how to handle it. I saw it - someone else saw it - and if it continues then others will see it. Then what? 

Missing that last shot happened & will happen again. Instead of wishing for a miracle shot at the end of every game, how about wishing for a lead greater than or equal to 4 on the final possession. Make that 5 because we committed 3 fouls on made 3 pt shots vs Boise State. SMH

- Don't let facts get in the way of a good story.

 

 

Two years ago Perry was clearly the ‘starter’ but didn’t ever start. He was a key cog in the lineup but came in 3-5 minutes after play. 
 

also, I’d recommend you stop with your final line. It’s annoying, arrogant and hypocritical especially coming from you. You just as anyone go with ‘a good story’. I prefer not to ignore you but when people post shit liners like this it’s just easier to ignore  your drivel rather than talk anymore on it than I already have. 

[herewego]

I'm just so defeated with our major sports this year hopefully we rally together in conference.

[GMG_Dallas]

3 minutes ago, HoosMeanGreen said:

Define on fire. If I am 6 for 12 can I shoot #13?

- Never allow facts to get in the way of a good story.

Your "facts" aren't as valid as you think they are. In 3 of our 4 losses, either Jones or Edwards took 16 shots. In 2 of those losses, the one who didn't shoot 16 times still shot 13 times. They're point guards. They should be distributing, not combining for nearly half of our shots.

3 minutes ago, BigWillie said:

Do you watch much basketball? It is pretty standard for your better offensive players to get this many shots.

I watch plenty of basketball. This is not standard unless your best offensive players are absolute studs. Jones and Edwards are good players but they're not efficient enough on a regular basis to justify 16 shot attempts.

[HoosMeanGreen]

2 minutes ago, Travis said:

Two years ago Perry was clearly the ‘starter’ but didn’t ever start. He was a key cog in the lineup but came in 3-5 minutes after play. 
 

also, I’d recommend you stop with your final line. It’s annoying, arrogant and hypocritical especially coming from you. You just as anyone go with ‘a good story’. I prefer not to ignore you but when people post shit liners like this it’s just easier to ignore  your drivel rather than talk anymore on it than I already have. 

Again no conversation can be had without a reference to your God. That is annoying, arrogant, and hypocritical as he is at K-State. The going with a good story went over my head. Absolutely no idea what you are attempting to say. 

How about I keep my tag line & you ignore my drivel. Tough guys can always be found in mommy's basement hogging bandwidth.

- Never allow facts to get in the way of a good story.

[emmitt01]

3 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Your "facts" aren't as valid as you think they are. In 3 of our 4 losses, either Jones or Edwards took 16 shots. In 2 of those losses, the one who didn't shoot 16 times still shot 13 times. They're point guards. They should be distributing, not combining for nearly half of our shots.

I watch plenty of basketball. This is not standard unless your best offensive players are absolute studs. Jones and Edwards are good players but they're not efficient enough on a regular basis to justify 16 shot attempts.

Honest question…if Jones and/or Edwards aren’t taking the shots, who would you suggest take them?  And please provide evidence based on the play of guys on THIS roster.  

[BigWillie]

10 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Your "facts" aren't as valid as you think they are. In 3 of our 4 losses, either Jones or Edwards took 16 shots. In 2 of those losses, the one who didn't shoot 16 times still shot 13 times. They're point guards. They should be distributing, not combining for nearly half of our shots.

I watch plenty of basketball. This is not standard unless your best offensive players are absolute studs. Jones and Edwards are good players but they're not efficient enough on a regular basis to justify 16 shot attempts.

Where does the offense come from then? It's purely a numbers game. We get an average of 50-60 possessions a game. There are 5 Guards and 3 Forwards in our rotation. Let's call 2 of those forwards centers (Sissoko/Allen). That leaves one Forward, A Scott and he should be getting 13+ shots a game. So where do the other 37-47 come from?

I think you are talking about the difference between a point guard and a shooting guard. Rubin kind of bounces between, but we don't have many shooting guards outside of JE.

Edited December 10, 2023 by BigWillie

[BigWillie]

7 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

Honest question…if Jones and/or Edwards aren’t taking the shots, who would you suggest take them?  And please provide evidence based on the play of guys on THIS roster.  

100%, we were posting at the same time.