The God Particle

[GTWT]

Interesting BBC article on Peter Higgs, the physicist who predicted to Higgs Boson (aka, the God Particle).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22073080

And whatever you do, don't call it the God Particle when he's around.

"First of all I'm an Atheist," he says.

"The second thing is, I know that that name was a kind of joke. And not a very good one I think."

I'm not sure why I found this amusing but I did...

[GTWT]

Oh! I need to mention that I mean no offense to the religious. I'm just a bit tired of hearing that science somehow supports religious dogma. It doesn't. Science and religion address very different issues.

[Censored by Laurie]

[MDH]

[Mean Green 93-98]

Science and religion address very different issues.

Yet the article says,

He set out to explain not just why we are here, but why everything is here.

[meangreendork]

Yet the article says,

While I'm in the Sagan camp that thinks science may eventually explain religion, that line is coming from the article writer, not Higgs himself.

Besides, Higgs is probably looking at more than just the scientific mechanics of the universe's existence as it came to be, but the things that happened prior to its existence.

Edited April 11, 2013 by meangreendork

[Mean Green 93-98]

While I'm in the Sagan camp that thinks science may eventually explain religion, that line is coming from the article writer, not Higgs himself.

Besides, Higgs is probably looking at more than just the scientific mechanics of the universe's existence as it came to be, but the things that happened prior to its existence.

So you would say it is looking to address the issues that religion addresses?

[Censored by Laurie]

So you would say it is looking to address the issues that religion addresses?

What issues are those that religion addresses with resolution?

[meangreendork]

So you would say it is looking to address the issues that religion addresses?

For Higgs, probably not. He just wants to see how the universe works and what happened before it existed as we know it.

But yeah, religion has always made it a goal to explain what humans don't know or don't currently know at the given time. I see it like this, if humanity lasts long enough without nuking ourselves to death or otherwise destroying our planet, we'll find definitive proof that a higher being does exist or doesn't exist.

[UNT Five&Dime]

Reagan and Thatcher are both dead. There's your proof there is no God.

Or is it proof of God that they graced our earth for a short period?

Crap.

[Mean Green 93-98]

What issues are those that religion addresses with resolution?

Obviously, you and I don't agree on the answer to your question, and probably never will during this life. And it's still a strange question, since religion in general does not answer all issues the same. But I personally believe that any issue the Bible addresses it addresses with absolute resolution.

[MeanGreenTexan]

What issues are those that religion addresses with resolution?

As a Christian, and I understand my audience here so I know this will be met with heavy skepticism, but... in a VERY brief nutshell:

1. God's state. God is perfect in every way, creator of all things. Since we have a God, we have absolutes.

2. Man's state. Man is fallen (separated from God) and born into sin. Everyone has sinned. There is no escaping it. Therefore, we're all separated from God. Period. Man detests God's absolutes.

3. God's heart. God loves his creation, especially his prized creation of man. God's plan of reuniting himself with his people was set forth immediately after man (Adam) sinned. God is also just and must remove himself from all sin. Period.

4. Man's heart. In his finite wisdom (re: sin), man will elevate himself to God and create his own truth, incorrectly.

5. Heaven & Hell. These must exist because of the separation of God from sin. Of course, both are created by God. God decides who enters each. Not man. Not ANY man (Christians cannot tell someone they are definitely going to Hell because we do not know the future for that person). God changes hearts. Today, He is changing hearts of those who opposed Him yesterday. At the same time, a person can go to church every Sunday and "live a good life", and not really be a Christian. No one knows who is definitely going to Heaven or Hell.

6. The Way to either after life. Since God created both, He can decide how anyone would enter either. Pre-Christ, this was through a very stringent law with sacrifices of animals to emplore His forgiveness/grace. Then Christ came and stated He is the only way. That old law is no longer going to cut it because even with that law, man still sinned.

7. The dealing of sin - Jesus. In order for God to be reunited with his beloved creation, He must deal with the sin that separates them. He did this in the most peculiar of ways: By becoming man Himself, living a perfect life, and dying only to be raised from death. This death was substitutionary to all who chose to believe it. And all who believe it will rise with Him. Period.

Interestingly enough, the most polarizing person in the Bible is actually beloved by just about everyone, whether they believe he is the promised Christ, or "a prophet", or an amazing "teacher". Obviously anyone who thinks this has not really investigated who He says he is in the Bible. Jesus claims to be God. Jesus claims he is the only way to Heaven. So He's either who he says He is, He knows He's lying and is decieving everyone, or He's bats*** crazy. (or, there are actually some people who believe that He never even existed)

Among many more, but these are some of the main ones.

Science is wonderful. I love science. None of it explains away God. None of it. Any attempt to explain away God via science or reason is coming from man's sinful nature.

I also love sharing this information as I'm called to do.

[GTWT]

MeanGreenTexan,

Thanks for the detail. As I read the Bible I find a concept of a God who wasn't very likeable. The demand for animal sacrifice? Sheesh! The demand for genocide? Sickening. The stoning of adulterers?

If your god exists he isn't worthy of worship.

[Mean Green 93-98]

MeanGreenTexan,

Thanks for the detail. As I read the Bible I find a concept of a God who wasn't very likeable. The demand for animal sacrifice? Sheesh! The demand for genocide? Sickening. The stoning of adulterers?

If your god exists he isn't worthy of worship.

Do you know what genocide is?

[GTWT]

Do you know what genocide is?

I think Joshua 6:21 exemplifies genocide quite well.

And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

Edited April 12, 2013 by GTWT

[MeanGreenTexan]

MeanGreenTexan,

Thanks for the detail. As I read the Bible I find a concept of a God who wasn't very likeable. The demand for animal sacrifice? Sheesh! The demand for genocide? Sickening. The stoning of adulterers?

If your god exists he isn't worthy of worship.

That is understandable within human reason.

But you have to understand that, according to God, DEATH (eternal separation from Him) is the only option for sin.

As for the animal sacrifice: because He loves His people, He provided a substitutionary death to forgive their sins. The last substitutionary sacrifice has been made, and it was Jesus. Sacrificing animals is not going to cut it any more.

As for genocide, I'm assuming you mean God's demand of the Israelites to conquer the promised land by eradicating all inhabitants? By that time, God had chosen the Israelites as His people. Others were in sin, and as stated above, death is the only option for sin.

As for stoning of adulters: once again, sin deserves death. Christ threw the ultimate wrench in this as he granted mercy to a prostitute and the favorite verse of all non-Christians was uttered: "Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone", meaning, "your sin is just as bad as hers." Voila! Grace to sinners! All you have to do is believe.

It's interesting that most people will pull from the old testament law in order to criticize the new covenant of grace in Christianity.

Now we as Christians are called to live like Christ. Of course, we're still fallen, so we're not perfect. And, admittedly/unfortunately, no one does more damage to the beauty of Christ than His own followers, and moreso, His pseudo-followers.

[GrayEagle]

What issues are those that religion addresses with resolution?

So far, the same ones that science addresses with resolution.

[GTWT]

That is understandable within human reason.

But you have to understand that, according to God, DEATH (eternal separation from Him) is the only option for sin.

As for the animal sacrifice: because He loves His people, He provided a substitutionary death to forgive their sins. The last substitutionary sacrifice has been made, and it was Jesus. Sacrificing animals is not going to cut it any more.

As for genocide, I'm assuming you mean God's demand of the Israelites to conquer the promised land by eradicating all inhabitants? By that time, God had chosen the Israelites as His people. Others were in sin, and as stated above, death is the only option for sin.

As for stoning of adulters: once again, sin deserves death. Christ threw the ultimate wrench in this as he granted mercy to a prostitute and the favorite verse of all non-Christians was uttered: "Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone", meaning, "your sin is just as bad as hers." Voila! Grace to sinners! All you have to do is believe.

It's interesting that most people will pull from the old testament law in order to criticize the new covenant of grace in Christianity.

Now we as Christians are called to live like Christ. Of course, we're still fallen, so we're not perfect. And, admittedly/unfortunately, no one does more damage to the beauty of Christ than His own followers, and moreso, His pseudo-followers.

Mean Green Texan,

Your religion seems preoccupied with death. That doesn't seem to have changed under the 'new covenant'. As for me, I prefer life.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Mean Green Texan,

Your religion seems preoccupied with death. That doesn't seem to have changed under the 'new covenant'. As for me, I prefer life.

Oh. I certainly prefer life as well. That's why I'm a Christian!

And it did change when Christ came! That's the beauty of it all. There's the often mentioned John 3:16, but I would recommend reading the very next verse. And when he rose from the grave, He showed his power over death.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

The problem with humans is they look at God and try to understand him from a human perspective. What reason is there for suffering of any kind, for example?

If you believe the Bible, then you know that no creation of God was made an automaton. You either choose to love and obey God or you do not. The same latitude was given one of God's other creations, angels.

The angel Lucifer challenged God, and convinced a third of the angels in Heaven to do so as well. A war was fought until Lucifer and his angels were thrown out of heaven, down to earth.

God later put mankind on the earth as well. From there, there are several beliefs about why God chose to do so. Some believe he did it to show Lucifer and his angels that he could create a race of beings with less power than angels who would love and obey him.

The experiment went awry when Lucifer tricked the humans into having the same type of jealous feelings he had for God's power and knowledge. God had the choice to destroy and start over, or to let man live on in the fallen state - basically, always looking at the affairs of others and being jealous, which leads to all kinds of strife: murder, adultry, thievery, deceit - all of which continue today.

You have only a few instances of God becoming so put off with man that he causes mass destruction - the Flood and Sodom and Gomorrah.

Those who doubt God simply because bad things happen to people would never subscribe to the war in Heaven slant (which...is Biblical). There are even some who claim to believe in God, yet discount so much of the Bible to where church is nothing more than a country club/comfort thing for them.

It is easy to reconcile pain and suffering in the context of God as a being in Heaven who is in spiritual warfare with Lucifer and his angles here on earth. We are said to be made in God's image, to be somewhat in nature like him. So, if someone - or, whole countries of someones - are not doing as God directs, it is easy to believe he would allow suffering.

The most miserable places in the world are those who deny God or persecute his followers. Disease, depression, and other such illnesses are more often found among people who reject God and embrace some other path. There is a reason, for example, one man/one woman monogamous marriages are not the genesis of sexual transmitted diseases or AIDS. They live according to God's word. Others openly flaunt God's teachings and reap diseases.

It's a choice that God allows them to make. After all, he allowed Lucifer and other angels he created to have freewill as well. Some use their freewill for good, others for evil.

The vexing question for those who can't stand the notion that God would allow anything bad to happen is, why wouldn't he stop it? Why not do something to end it?

The answer is, what...you mean like follow his word? If everyone were following his word, you wouldn't have all of the strife, jealousy, and pain. But, there is as much pride in mankind as there is in Lucifer.

At one point, God even sent his own son in human form and he was rejected. This Jesus healed the sick, made the blind see, the deaf hear, the lame walk, brought some back from the dead. etc. He sometimes associated with sinners in an effort to show them a better path in life.

Jesus held no political convictions and made no attempt at rebellions against either the local government (the Sanhedrin), the state/region (Herod Antipas), or Rome (Cesar Augustus/The Empire). He asked only that the Jews return to God. He asked that the Jewish leaders end their hypocritical actions toward their own people. He asked them to revere God in the Temple by ending the human commerce there.

For simply asking God's chosen people to return to God, and healing and helping others, he was sentenced to death. This is how people on earth ultimately treated God among us. Because Jesus would not yield to the human views and traditions, he was rejected. And, being of God himself, God was rejected as well.

Many still hypocricitally say they would believe if, say, Jesus were to return and perfor the same miracles. That is highly doubtful. Jesus often said, "Go and sin no more" to those he helped. That is too much of a command for the majority of mankind. God has been here in human form and was rejected.

Mankind must have its own way, the final say. They have already proved that to God. They proved it at the Garden of Eden, and it continues today.

So, what special break, then, would God give mankind? Just one: believe in Him and his Son and do His will and you will live with him someday. Pretty simple stuff. And, yet, few people - even those who profess to be Christians - actually do so.

Therefore, there is - and will be - suffering. And, moreso, for those openly rejecting him.

Have a nice day.

Edited April 12, 2013 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[GTWT]

You know Lonnie, for an omniscient, omnipotent god, YHWH has screwed up a lot with his creation.

[Eagle61]

If you are a bastard, you and your next 10 generations can't go to heaven. It is in the bible. Look it up. Just plain silly. Religion is a joke, all of them.

[MeanGreenTexan]

If you are a bastard, you and your next 10 generations can't go to heaven. It is in the bible. Look it up. Just plain silly. Religion is a joke, all of them.

You're in Deuteronomy. Here's the OT law creeping up again to condemn Christianity.

I am actually what you would call a "bastard" child. Born out of wedlock, right?

However, I'm going to Heaven because Jesus purchased me.

I love when someone who professes to be a non-Christian becomes a theologian/biblical scholar when it's time to refute Christ.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

No, he didn't screw them up - they screwed up themselves and still do to this day. He just allows them to do so. Making a race of automatons, angel or human, would have been the easier route, yes, and quite pointless.

Everyone has the choice to live within the God's word. Whether they do or not, that's up to them.

Also, thanks MeanGreenTexan, old law is old. Christ is new law. Thankfully.

[KRAM1]

Darn, when I saw the title of this thread I thought it was going to be about some of our basketball experts and how they got to be so all-knowing.

Man, am I ever disappointed.