Penn State football deserves death penalty for cover-up

[UNT90]

Good! Just that much more money for the victims when they sue.

more stuff happening....

http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/17/brown-changes-paterno-award-plane-banner-statue-removal/

Easy solution for the statue. Just add a blindfold, ear plugs, and a gag and leave it standing.

[LongJim]

Or maybe, just maybe . . . they want to help Penn State move onto another chapter.

They need to close the chapter on this entire sordid book with a happy ending where the bad guys get punished, and the hero takes his licks like the supposed champion he is and rises above them.

Then they can begin writing another, different, better book.

[forevereagle]

Or... Maybe... Just maybe.... They still don't get it and don't care about any child victim as long as they get to watch good ole Penn St football on a fall Saturday afternoon.

I mean, it's not their kid, right?

Just so I can be clear:

-Kill someone in Florida and admit to it - let's wait and hear all the facts and not judge someone unless we know everything.

-Live in State College, PA, attend PSU football games, currently attend PSU, play/played football for PSU, are an alumni of PSU, work at PSU (but had nothing to do with the incident), or donate any money to PSU - you support sexual abuse of minors and we should do everything we can to punish you.

Just want to make sure I understand.

Edited July 17, 2012 by forevereagle

[forevereagle]

They need to close the chapter on this entire sordid book with a happy ending where the bad guys get punished, and the hero takes his licks like the supposed champion he is and rises above them.

Then they can begin writing another, different, better book.

Who is the hero? You have portrayed the university as the villain who should be punished.

[NorthTexan95]

Death penalty for this? You want to punish the athletes currently at the school for crimes committed by people no longer at the university? No, that's the wrong answer. Let the legal system handle the persons who need to be dealt with. The university needs to fire and replace those who need to be fired. Giving the program the death penalty is definately the wrong action to take.

[LongJim]

Who is the hero? You have portrayed the university as the villain who should be punished.

Maybe I should quit speaking in analogies.

PSU needs to purge its scumbags, and take its medicine regarding their football program/AD/university lack of institutional control.

Take its medicine, and go on with their head held up and the attitude of it won't happen again. Not look for every reason to keep the status quo and claim, "We purged the evildoers. We're good now."

[LongJim]

Death penalty for this? You want to punish the athletes currently at the school for crimes committed by people no longer at the university? No, that's the wrong answer. Let the legal system handle the persons who need to be dealt with. The university needs to fire and replace those who need to be fired. Giving the program the death penalty is definately the wrong action to take.

Okay, what punishment for a football program that systematically looked the other way while young boys were systematically raped and abused for 14 years within the community you live in is acceptable? As a member of a community where this occurred, what is a fair punishment?

[UNT90]

Just so I can be clear:

-Kill someone in Florida and admit to it - let's wait and hear all the facts and not judge someone unless we know everything.

-Live in State College, PA, attend PSU football games, currently attend PSU, play/played football for PSU, are an alumni of PSU, work at PSU (but had nothing to do with the incident), or donate any money to PSU - you support sexual abuse of minors and we should do everything we can to punish you.

Just want to make sure I understand.

Wow. Try to stay on topic.

Or, maybe we could compare this to the crash of the Hindenburg, Todd Dodge's UNT career, or the HBO show "The wire".

I mean, those apply, right?

[UNT90]

90, $20 to GMG.com says Pedophile U gets the DP. You in?

Sorry, Long Jim, lost this in the muck and the mire.

You.

Are.

On!!!!

[forevereagle]

Maybe I should quit speaking in analogies.

PSU needs to purge its scumbags, and take its medicine regarding their football program/AD/university lack of institutional control.

Take its medicine, and go on with their head held up and the attitude of it won't happen again. Not look for every reason to keep the status quo and claim, "We purged the evildoers. We're good now."

And their medicine is to go completely scorched earth and destroy everything? Take them down so far that they may never recover and let them hold their heads high knowing that a handful of people in positions over power took everything from so many. How does that ensure that another set of people in positions of power don't do something illegal again? What mechanism has this built that prevents a recurrence?

Wow. Try to stay on topic.

Or, maybe we could compare this to the crash of the Hindenburg, Todd Dodge's UNT career, or the HBO show "The wire".

I mean, those apply, right?

This is on topic. You spoke out against judging someone who admitted to a crime without all the facts. Now you want to condemn an entire community and bring the harshest penalty available to people who have done nothing wrong and you know absolutely nothing about those people. I want to know what makes judging someone who takes a life without knowing all the details different from judging a multitude of people without knowing anything about them.

[UNT90]

And their medicine is to go completely scorched earth and destroy everything? Take them down so far that they may never recover and let them hold their heads high knowing that a handful of people in positions over power took everything from so many. How does that ensure that another set of people in positions of power don't do something illegal again? What mechanism has this built that prevents a recurrence?

This is on topic. You spoke out against judging someone who admitted to a crime without all the facts. Now you want to condemn an entire community and bring the harshest penalty available to people who have done nothing wrong and you know absolutely nothing about those people. I want to know what makes judging someone who takes a life without knowing all the details different from judging a multitude of people without knowing anything about them.

I think LongJim addressed the ties between Penn St. and the community quite well. I think it is quite clear that multiple sexual assaults occurred (you know, a guilty verdict by a jury).

We are not talking about guilt/innocence here. We are talking about punishment. Punishment being no football. Is that really comparable to charging a man with murder and taking his freedom?

I won't address it again, because, frankly, the comparison is stupid.

Edited July 17, 2012 by UNT90

[NorthTexan95]

Okay, what punishment for a football program that systematically looked the other way while young boys were systematically raped and abused for 14 years within the community you live in is acceptable? As a member of a community where this occurred, what is a fair punishment?

The crimes were committed by individuals who need to be punished by the law and those who let didn't take a stand but didn't actually commit a crime should probably be fired. The football program ... which includes athletes, other students, fans, and other university employees who had no knowledge of what was going on ... should not be punished.

The death penalty would only penalize those who weren't involved. The courts need to take care of those who were involved.

[forevereagle]

I think LongJim addressed the ties between Penn St. and the community quite well. I think it is quite clear that multiple sexual assaults occurred (you know, a guilty verdict by a jury).

We are not talking about guilt/innocence here. We are talking about punishment. Punishment being no football. Is that really comparable to charging a man with murder and taking his freedom?

I won't address it again, because, frankly, the comparison is stupid.

A verdict for one man, so we should punish all current and former students?

And you have judged them, all of them, without knowing anything about a single one of them or even who they are. I don't think the comparison is stupid, it is telling.

They still don't get it and don't care about any child victim as long as they get to watch good ole Penn St football on a fall Saturday afternoon.

[UNT Five&Dime]

Totally unrelated, but I love The Angel of Mean Green Christmas.

[Cr1028]

I'm not going to argue semantics and beat straw men. Sorry.

So essentially, the death penalty. I would go ahead and give them a 2 year ban on home games, and a 4 year ban on TV and bowls and give them the full meal deal.

Not death penalty. Just sort of dropping them to D-III status for a few years. I forgot to add no postseason for the 4 years also. This way the circus still comes to town for the small business owners and other schools don't have to seek out other opponents to fill schedules.

[UNT90]

A verdict for one man, so we should punish all current and former students?

And you have judged them, all of them, without knowing anything about a single one of them or even who they are. I don't think the comparison is stupid, it is telling.

Judgement by a message board?

Now it's just funny.

Back on topic: http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/ncaa-boss-rule-death-penalty-penn-st-16793686

"This is completely different than an impermissible benefits scandal like (what) happened at SMU, or anything else we've dealt with. This is as systemic a cultural problem as it is a football problem. There have been people that said this wasn't a football scandal," Emmert said.

"Well, it was more than a football scandal, much more than a football scandal. It was that but much more. And we'll have to figure out exactly what the right penalties are. I don't know that past precedent makes particularly good sense in this case, because it's really an unprecedented problem."

Looks like Emmert gets it, but will he have the stones to do the right thing.

My money (literally) says no.

LongJim, it looks like you may have a shot, though.

[Cr1028]

Just so I can be clear:

-Kill someone in Florida and admit to it - let's wait and hear all the facts and not judge someone unless we know everything.

-Live in State College, PA, attend PSU football games, currently attend PSU, play/played football for PSU, are an alumni of PSU, work at PSU (but had nothing to do with the incident), or donate any money to PSU - you support sexual abuse of minors and we should do everything we can to punish you.

Just want to make sure I understand.

Zing.

[Cr1028]

I think LongJim addressed the ties between Penn St. and the community quite well. I think it is quite clear that multiple sexual assaults occurred (you know, a guilty verdict by a jury).

We are not talking about guilt/innocence here. We are talking about punishment. Punishment being no football. Is that really comparable to charging a man with murder and taking his freedom?

I won't address it again, because, frankly, the comparison is stupid.

1. Are you trying to make it seem as though that PSU or State College is full of child molesters? I thought it was just one man who is now in prison.

2. I guess we can lump the innocent in with the guilty. Kill 'em all an sort 'em out later. I guess if you had been our 43rd president, you would have just nuked Iraq and Afganistan because all inhabitants should be punished for the crimes of a few.

[forevereagle]

Judgement by a message board?

No, just by you, the same thing you accused others of and spoke so vehemently against.

[UNT90]

Ad hominem attack: Attacking an opponent's character rather than answering his argument....

1. Are you trying to make it seem as though that PSU or State College is full of child molesters? I thought it was just one man who is now in prison.

2. I guess we can lump the innocent in with the guilty. Kill 'em all an sort 'em out later. I guess if you had been our 43rd president, you would have just nuked Iraq and Afganistan because all inhabitants should be punished for the crimes of a few.

[UNT90]

No, just by you, the same thing you accused others of and spoke so vehemently against.

When you can't win the current argument, make it about anything else, right?

Congrats.

Edited July 17, 2012 by UNT90

[Cr1028]

When you can't win the current argument, make it about anything else, right?

Congrats.

You are deflecting. He is absolutely right. You were against anyone passing judgement in the Zimmerman case but you are the one passing judgement here. You can't argue that he isn't telling the truth.

[LongJim]

The football program ... should not be punished.

The death penalty would only penalize those who weren't involved. The courts need to take care of those who were involved.

That is a clear and concise answer, and I respect your right to it. And--to me--it says "too big to fail."

And what it says--to me--is that as long as your football program, athletic program, and administration purge anyone involved in felonies or engaged in serial pedophilia on the premises of and in the name of Penn State athletics--and then only because of public outcry--it's ok.

Call that hyperbole if you want. That's the way I feel about it.

[LongJim]

How does that ensure that another set of people in positions of power don't do something illegal again? What mechanism has this built that prevents a recurrence?

I believe it would be much more of a deterrent than not punishing the department and thereby school--severely--that fostered an environment where serial pedophilia was condoned for 14 years. But it's only my opinion.

[forevereagle]

When you can't win the current argument, make it about anything else, right?

Congrats.

You have an opinion that you will not change, and I disagree. No one can win the argument.