MGB: Follow-up thoughts on UNT scheduling FCS opponents

[UNT90]

23 hours ago, VideoEagle said:

The players do. And those wins do help their confidence in other games, just as any coach. 

The fans at the Nichols State game sure acted like they enjoyed the game when we had a record win. 

And what was our record that season? 4-8?

I guess the confidence wasn't built enough, eh?

This is one of the dumbest reasons ever given for these games. Beating a far inferior opponent doesn't instill confidence in a team. Beating a superior opponent does. 

Have any of you ever played even sandlot football? Jeez.

And I bet (and perhaps a former player, maybe UNTTexan? Can address this) the players talk more about the K State game, the Baylor blowout, the Georgia first half, the Texas second half (22-0 game) then they ever talk about any useless FCS victory. I bet the main topic of conversation for the 2011 team is the Indiana victory, even though Indiana was terrible.

I know you will go to the ends of the earth to defend Rick Villarreal, but players want to win meaningful games. That's what competitors live for, and the former AD made sure the players were ALWAYS put in the worst position possible when playing meaningful football games. And except for the lone bowl game (one bowl game in 9 years from the former AD's  hires) and the UTSA game in 2013, the former AD didn't provide one meaningful game in the DFW are for the players of this program in the 9 years he had total control. 

But you will defend him to the bitter bitter end.

 

Edited June 19, 2016 by UNT90

[UNT90]

9 hours ago, casual fan said:

                   Boise                                                                             

2002   12 -1 played no ranked teams                            8-5  UNT played Texas. Alabama, TCU, Arizona on the road with only 5 home games.

2003   13 -1 scheduled no ranked teams                      9-4    UNT played Oklahoma, Arkansas, Air Force on the road with 5 home games

2004   11 -1 scheduled no raked teams                         7-5  UNT played Texas, Baylor, Colorado on the road with 5 home games

2005     9-4 lost to 3 ranked teams                                 2- 9 UNT played LSU, Kansas St, La Tech on the road with 5 home games

2006   13 -0 scheduled no raked teams, beat #7 OU    3-9 UNT opened with a 56-7 loss at Texas season over.

Boise Formula 

Easy schedule + no ranked ranked teams = Winning season 

UNT Formula

Body bag out of conference games + only 5 home games = downward spiral 

Insanity is when you keep doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different outcome. 

 

 

UNT isn't and never will be Boise St. There are so many differences in the culture of the university and fan base it makes a comparison moot. 

I do agree with scheduling less body bag games (obviously), but this program also needs P5s at home to prove to disaffected alumni, season ticket holders, citizens of Denton, and current students that the culture of not caring about athletics is changing. Something that will make people sit up and take notice. Something that will make an alum go "UNT is playing Texas Tech at home? I thought they only played teams one no every heard of. Maybe I'll go to that one." 

We aren't Boise St and never, ever will be. The comparison is a very, very, very bad one. 

Edited June 19, 2016 by UNT90

[Mike Jackson]

On June 17, 2016 at 6:21 PM, UNT90 said:

That one loss cost this program more than winning the next 6 will benefit it.

Nothing else needs to be said in reference to scheduling FCS opponents.  And people forget that Boise State has a captive market for football in their city.  If Denton was 100 miles away from the nearest NFL team and relevant FBS program scheduling FCS team would make more sense.  These game are money losers because unless they are the homecoming game fewer fans are coming.  UNT has to win and put butts in seats at the FBS level.  If were to guarantee 3 straight 2 loss or less seasons at FCS level if UNT were to drop down who would be interested?  I suspect less than 50% of the people on this board would be interested in that.  We should be scheduling well known G5 programs like a Boise State.  San Diego State, Fresno State, Colorado State and Memphis would all be nice additions to our schedule over the next 5 years.  Going slightly under .500 in competitive games against those teams mean much more than being undefeated against FCS.  Highlights of games against known FBS opponents get highlights on sports shows, only losses of FBS teams (or even close calls) get your program infamy.

[UNT90]

It's amazing to me that people still make arguments for these games, and even more amazing that UNT allowed a lame duck hustler to schedule more of them after this program suffered the worst loss in modern college football history just last year. I don't know how much deeper people can put their head in the sand. UNT can't simply show up and win these games like a UT can. There is zero benefit to UNT and a huge risk of looking even more inept (if that's possible) in athletics. Both to recruits and to fans. 

The sports IQ in this fan base has to be less than 50, either that or they are so brainwashed into accepting pure crap that they have learned to enjoy the taste of a sh1+ sandwich. 

NO ONE ELSE IN CUSA IS SCHEDULING THIS WAY!! WAKE THE F UP!

[casual fan]

10 hours ago, UNT90 said:

UNT isn't and never will be Boise St. There are so many differences in the culture of the university and fan base it makes a comparison moot. 

I do agree with scheduling less body bag games (obviously), but this program also needs P5s at home to prove to disaffected alumni, season ticket holders, citizens of Denton, and current students that the culture of not caring about athletics is changing. Something that will make people sit up and take notice. Something that will make an alum go "UNT is playing Texas Tech at home? I thought they only played teams one no every heard of. Maybe I'll go to that one." 

We aren't Boise St and never, ever will be. The comparison is a very, very, very bad one. 

Last P5 here was Indiana on 9-24-2011.  Attendance 21,181

              We played Troy on  9-22-2012.  Attendance 21,823

      We played Nicholls St on 9-20-2014.  Attendance 21,323

You assume that most fans know which school is in which conference.  Only a local P5 here would move the attendance.

You are correct that we aren't Boise St.  They figured out a winning formula and stuck with it.  We never did.

 A smart Non P5 would do well to follow their lead or at least look at how they did it.

 

[UNT90]

1 hour ago, casual fan said:

Last P5 here was Indiana on 9-24-2011.  Attendance 21,181

              We played Troy on  9-22-2012.  Attendance 21,823

      We played Nicholls St on 9-20-2014.  Attendance 21,323

You assume that most fans know which school is in which conference.  Only a local P5 here would move the attendance.

You are correct that we aren't Boise St.  They figured out a winning formula and stuck with it.  We never did.

 A smart Non P5 would do well to follow their lead or at least look at how they did it.

 

It won't work here. So many differences it isn't even funny. And you are right, I should have said "P5 that matters," like the example of Texas Texh that I gave. 

If Tech will sign a one and one with Texas St, they would have signed one with UNT. The last AD never tried. At a lot of things. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by UNT90

[Aldo]

#StayWoke 

[Wag Tag]

20 hours ago, UNT90 said:

It's amazing to me that people still make arguments for these games, and even more amazing that UNT allowed a lame duck hustler to schedule more of them after this program suffered the worst loss in modern college football history just last year. I don't know how much deeper people can put their head in the sand. UNT can't simply show up and win these games like a UT can. There is zero benefit to UNT and a huge risk of looking even more inept (if that's possible) in athletics. Both to recruits and to fans. 

The sports IQ in this fan base has to be less than 50, either that or they are so brainwashed into accepting pure crap that they have learned to enjoy the taste of a sh1+ sandwich. 

NO ONE ELSE IN CUSA IS SCHEDULING THIS WAY!! WAKE THE F UP!

When you state " no one else" you are completely wrong as usual just to try to justify your opinion. You need to look at their schedules in fact one has HBU booked. P5 have FCS teams booked! The best teams booked have been Indiana (did you think we would beat them) Houston , Ball State, u Ohio! An competitive athlete wants to win period! Even in ping pong. SMU has been a great series and Army will be. Better scheduling needed I can agree! And how about a frig'n concert while we are at it!!!!

[oldguystudent]

5 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

 And how about a frig'n concert while we are at it!!!!

It's amazing to me that neither the super pit nor Apogee are ever used for concerts, especially with both having beer sales now.  I'm gonna guess that's on UNT, not the AD, especially in the super pit.

[Wag Tag]

8 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

It's amazing to me that neither the super pit nor Apogee are ever used for concerts, especially with both having beer sales now.  I'm gonna guess that's on UNT, not the AD, especially in the super pit.

Might b right get together and fill the stadium up with a post game concert! When the Mavs sucked Cuban did it and it was blast. Denton has great music let's promote both. Get the 1:00 lab band!!!! I hope the new AD is creative!!

[oldguystudent]

4 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

Might b right get together and fill the stadium up with a post game concert! When the Mavs sucked Cuban did it and it was blast. Denton has great music let's promote both. Get the 1:00 lab band!!!! I hope the new AD is creative!!

No offense to the lab band, but I ain't sticking around after a sporting event to watching them play soothing jazz off sheet music, then call for their own encore (*cough*looking at you jazzfest director dude*cough*).  

For post game concerts, get whoever's out on the senior circuit playing state fairs.  Recent state fair examples would be Blondie, Kool and the Gang, and the one and a half surviving members of the Beach Boys.  Safe, Family Friendly party music for the middle aged set with wallets.

But besides post game stuff, I'm thinking stuff like Edgefest and Jimmy Buffet, both long time residents of the smaller stadium in Frisco.  (It was Pizza Hut Park.  What is it now?  Stepford Stadium?).  Apogee should be more than capable of hosting something like that, and should consider seeking such things out.

Edited June 20, 2016 by oldguystudent

[VideoEagle]

Every member of CUSA has at least one FCS game booked in the next two years except FIU. A lot of P5 schools also have FCS teams booked. Playing weaker opponents is a proven way to build your team according to Bill Snyder and Les Miles. Bill Parcels said he always worked #1 players against the 2s so the 1s would win almost every time and get used to winning. That is how Boise State built their program. Please show me a team that built a winner playing body bag games? 

I didn't check, but I think since 2000 NT has lost the same number of games against FCS teams as Michigan. It is extremely embarrassing. But anyone who thinks that's the worst thing possible, just look at what's going on in Waco. 

I've never heard a coach say you shouldn't play teams you should, on paper, be able to beat when you have a choice. Strength of schedule does not matter to NT at this point, wins are what matter. 

[MeanGreenHoops]

Both @casual fan & @UNT90 are partially right.

We don't have a plan which is why even this FCS scheduling doesn't work. We still schedule the guaranteed loss so we really aren't building any early season momentum. And I mean over several years. If you're going to go for wins you have to invest money in that plan and lose the money games so that many wins happen, not just 1. Fans have proven if we win they will come see games.

However, part of the bring in a Texas Tech plan is right too in that it would signal that things are different around here and make people notice (kid of like the Dodge hire did where everyone thought we were getting serious because we brought in a famous coach even though it didn't work out). People would show up for that too. But get clobbered and I believe it scares people even more than losing to "teams no one has heard of" at least in the short term. People distance themselves because they can't take the grief from friends they know that went to those schools.

Regardless, the main issue that both of you are right on is that we've never had a vision for how to make the thing successful and stuck with it. It's either been, schedule tons of money games to fund the program, a plan that will never work, or this current plan which only works if we win the other 3 OOC games, which we nearly did in 2013 and the fans were there.

Hopefully the new AD will know how to do it and get the support necessary to do it. If not, it will be more of the same.

[oldguystudent]

Hell, while in provisional status, South Alabama played nothing but HIGH SCHOOLS in its first year.  Its second year, it played high schools and community colleges.  Then it played FCS.

When they finally got up to FBS status, they didn't suffer near the smackdown that WKU did its first few years. 

There might be something to building a winning mentality.  But if we are gonna go that route, we really need to consider that playing semi-pros in the SEC breaks that winning mentality right the hell back down.

[Wag Tag]

20 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

No offense to the lab band, but I ain't sticking around after a sporting event to watching them play soothing jazz off sheet music, then call for their own encore (*cough*looking at you jazzfest director dude*cough*).  

For post game concerts, get whoever's out on the senior circuit playing state fairs.  Recent state fair examples would be Blondie, Kool and the Gang, and the one and a half surviving members of the Beach Boys.  Safe, Family Friendly party music for the middle aged set with wallets.

But besides post game stuff, I'm thinking stuff like Edgefest and Jimmy Buffet, both long time residents of the smaller stadium in Frisco.  (It was Pizza Hut Park.  What is it now?  Stepford Stadium?).  Apogee should be more than capable of hosting something like that, and should consider seeking such things out.

Great ideas! Kool & the gang played after a Mav game. It was a blast even though the Mavs lost!

[UNT90]

42 minutes ago, VideoEagle said:

Every member of CUSA has at least one FCS game booked in the next two years except FIU. A lot of P5 schools also have FCS teams booked. Playing weaker opponents is a proven way to build your team according to Bill Snyder and Les Miles. Bill Parcels said he always worked #1 players against the 2s so the 1s would win almost every time and get used to winning. That is how Boise State built their program. Please show me a team that built a winner playing body bag games? 

I didn't check, but I think since 2000 NT has lost the same number of games against FCS teams as Michigan. It is extremely embarrassing. But anyone who thinks that's the worst thing possible, just look at what's going on in Waco. 

I've never heard a coach say you shouldn't play teams you should, on paper, be able to beat when you have a choice. Strength of schedule does not matter to NT at this point, wins are what matter. 

So as long as UNT isn't covering up rapes by players, we are doing ok, eh? 

Amazing.

We aren't K St or LSU. Hell, we aren't Boise St. You can't build a program with a cookie cutter. If it were that easy, everyone would be doing it and having success. They aren't. 

Other conference mates do play the occasional FCS. NONE OF THEM have an FCS scheduled every year for the next 6 years. ALL OF THEM BUT ONE have a meaningful P5 at home.

UNT is on a course to get dismissed from CUSA, and you sports idiots will be scratching your heads wondering "how did that happen?" Let me give you a future heads up. It happened because of a level of competitiveness in revenue programs and a FAILURE TO MEET ACCEPTED STANDARDS AND PRACTICES OF OTHER MEMBERS. 

If UNT continues on its current course, this is an eventuality, whether you want to admit it to yourselves or not.

Edited June 20, 2016 by UNT90

[Wag Tag]

3 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

So as long as UNT isn't covering up rapes by players, we are doing ok, eh? 

Amazing.

We aren't K St or LSU. Hell, we aren't Boise St. You can't build a program with a cookie cutter. If it were that easy, everyone would be doing it and having success. They aren't. 

Other conference mates do play the occasional FCS. NONE OF THEM have an FCS scheduled every year for the next 6 years. ALL OF THEM BUT ONE have a meaningful P5 at home.

UNT is on a course to get dismissed from CUSA, and you sports idiots will be scratching your heads wondering "how did that happen?" Let me give you a future heads up. It happened because of a label of competitiveness in revenue programs and a FAILURE TO MEET ACCEPTED STANDARDS AND PRACTICES OF OTHER MEMBERS. 

If UNT continues on its current course, this is an eventuality, whether you want to admit it to yourselves or not.

You are so good on predicting the future and who the idiots are. Oh and RV will never be fired because of his buddies. How did that work out for U?

Haters have to hate and U prove that!

 

[oldguystudent]

This upcoming season is going to suck.  A lot.  But there's a whole new horizon out there after.  I went through my kill everybody and burn the landscape to the ground phase during the Teflon Todd years, who I still wouldn't piss on were he on fire.  But he's gone.  And so is the most recent antagonist in this ongoing story of futility.  I went from angry to numb.  I hope to some day progress to excited.  But really, leave the angry thing behind.  It doesn't do anybody any good no how. 

[Army of Dad]

Just now, oldguystudent said:

This upcoming season is going to suck.  A lot.  But there's a whole new horizon out there after.  I went through my kill everybody and burn the landscape to the ground phase during the Teflon Todd years, who I still wouldn't piss on were he on fire.  But he's gone.  And so is the most recent antagonist in this ongoing story of futility.  I went from angry to numb.  I hope to some day progress to excited.  But really, leave the angry thing behind.  It doesn't do anybody any good no how. 

He's not quite home yet and I'm surprised and disappointed that he was allowed to add these games to the schedule. I think the next AD should have been allowed to make that decision.

[VideoEagle]

20 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

He's not quite home yet and I'm surprised and disappointed that he was allowed to add these games to the schedule. I think the next AD should have been allowed to make that decision.

The new AD should have been allowed to add games, but do we know when these games were actually scheduled. One of RVs many annoying habits was keeping games that were scheduled secret as long as possible. 

 

1 hour ago, Wag Tag said:

You are so good on predicting the future and who the idiots are. Oh and RV will never be fired because of his buddies. How did that work out for U?

Haters have to hate and U prove that!

 

Don't waste time arguing with him. NT is terrible because with don't we schedule like everyone else. But when it's shown we ARE, then we're terrible because was we are following a cookie cutter system. The world ended because we only had five home games instead of six and now the world will end because we do have six home games for years to come.  Because the President of the University managed the situation to minimize problems in dismissing a contract employee, he must not care about athletics. Anyone who dares point out the irrational nature of the arguments must be a friend of RV regardless of anything proves that isn't correct. 

Just use this link to ignore and you will only see his posts when quoted by others. Arguing with him is a waste of your time. 

[Wag Tag]

13 minutes ago, VideoEagle said:

The new AD should have been allowed to add games, but do we know when these games were actually scheduled. One of RVs many annoying habits was keeping games that were scheduled secret as long as possible. 

 

Don't waste time arguing with him. NT is terrible because with don't we schedule like everyone else. But when it's shown we ARE, then we're terrible because was we are following a cookie cutter system. The world ended because we only had five home games instead of six and now the world will end because we do have six home games for years to come.  Because the President of the University managed the situation to minimize problems in dismissing a contract employee, he must not care about athletics. Anyone who dares point out the irrational nature of the arguments must be a friend of RV regardless of anything proves that isn't correct. 

Just use this link to ignore and you will only see his posts when quoted by others. Arguing with him is a waste of your time. 

Done... Thanks

[UNT90]

1 hour ago, Wag Tag said:

You are so good on predicting the future and who the idiots are. Oh and RV will never be fired because of his buddies. How did that work out for U?

Haters have to hate and U prove that!

 

I don't think you get a whole lot about me and my posts. 

[Army of Dad]

27 minutes ago, VideoEagle said:

The new AD should have been allowed to add games, but do we know when these games were actually scheduled. One of RVs many annoying habits was keeping games that were scheduled secret as long as possible. 

Even then he probably should have been told to hold of scheduling anything.

[UNT90]

33 minutes ago, VideoEagle said:

Don't waste time arguing with him. NT is terrible because with don't we schedule like everyone else. But when it's shown we ARE, then we're terrible because was we are following a cookie cutter system. The world ended because we only had five home games instead of six and now the world will end because we do have six home games for years to come.  Because the President of the University managed the situation to minimize problems in dismissing a contract employee, he must not care about athletics. Anyone who dares point out the irrational nature of the arguments must be a friend of RV regardless of anything proves that isn't correct. 

Just use this link to ignore and you will only see his posts when quoted by others. Arguing with him is a waste of your time. 

The bolded is a flat out lie. You are lying to people on this topic because you have taken an indefensible position in defense of a friend, and can't admit UNT scheduling sucks balls. That's right, on this topic, you are an outright liar.

I have proven time and again that UNT doesn't schedule like other conference foes. EVERY CONFERENCE FOE except one has P5s scheduled at home in the immediate future. NO CONFERENCE FOES have 6 straight years of FCS home games. But you pick and choose to suit your narrative and literally ignore opposing opinions. It's childish.

I have disagreed with many on this board and have never blocked one Mean Green fan. Some people are afraid of differing ideas and avoid confrontation. Grow a pair. 

[VideoEagle]

1 hour ago, Army of Dad said:

Even then he probably should have been told to hold of scheduling anything.

Yes, that's true. Do we know either of those games were scheduled after the first of this year? As I wrote, RV used to schedule things and not announce till the year of the game.