S&P Downgrades U.S. Credit Rating

[FirefightnRick]

I'll get blasted for this and that's fine but we (Republicans) cannot solely blame our debt problem on Democrats. There was some reckless spending going on the past ten years (and many more but the focus is on the past decade). Yes, the Democrats did do some reckless and inefficient "stimulus" spending but TARP was Bush backed and even when Dems had control Bush never used vetoing powers. There was also a heavy amount of earmarking going on in 2005 and 2006 and an unfunded medicare prescription plan that's adding to the debt. Can we blame the housing bubble on Bush? Nah. Started heavily under Clinton but even Bush supported giving everyone the American dream and even pushed for private institutions to buy up mortgage backed securities to make it happen and lowered lending requirments. Republicans had an opportunity to fix the looming house mess but failed to do so.

What I don't agree with is Democrats not taking responsibility for what they've done while in office and how that has affected the economy. It seems like Obama always places blame on something else. When he's not blaming it on Bush he blames it on the Arab spring and Japan tsunami.

I corrected the months in control above. The Libs have had at least 2/3rds control the past 57 months I believe.

And just for the record, I'm not solely blaming the Libs. I wasn't happy when Bush signed in the Prescription Drug Plan or TARP. And I'm certainly not happy with those Republicans that caved last week on the Dept limit(even our very own Dr. Micheal Burgess), and I was pleased to see several Libs vote against it as well.

I would just like to see someone, anyone take responsibility and make the changes needed to get this thing going again without the tax rhetoric we keep hearing. And tomorrow will be more the same.

Saturday, a fellow FF friend of mine who is a lib went on and on about the rich not paying their fair share and the corporations not paying their fair share? I just don't understand where that type of class warfare mindset comes from?

Anyways, Congress needs an enema. First thing on the agenda tomorrow morning should be term limits and then go from there.

Rick

Edited August 8, 2011 by FirefightnRick

[UNTflyer]

And here we waste time arguing over who is to blame. Exactly what the politicians want us to do.

Both parties are to blame. Both parties have horrible ideas on fixing it, because neigher party truly wants to cut spending.

I don't see a realistic way out of the hole we've dug... not without surrendering our military might and severely cutting entitlement programs, combined with tax increases across all income levels.

[UNTflyer]

Saturday, a fellow FF friend of mine who is a lib went on and on about the rich not paying their fair share and the corporations not paying their fair share? I just don't understand where that type of class warfare mindset comes from?

It's actually the poor and middle class that don't pay their fair share, but hey... nobody got elected by proposing a tax increase on the middle class.

[FirefightnRick]

Both parties are to blame.

It's not John Kerry's fault, it's the Tea Party's fault.

See what I mean? It's not the people who has been there the past 27 years' fault. It's the one's who have been there the past 8 months' fault.

Rick

[UNT90]

Before the Tea Party, you had liberal and liberal light in power when it came to spending. I love that Kerry and his liberal ilk are trying to villify the Tea Party. It just shows how frightened the liberals are of the movement to get spending under control.

Trust me, if the Tea Party wasn't seen as a threat, the blame would be placed on the Republican party in general. A nice back handed compliment by the liberals.

Pres. Obama's reaction to this has pretty much assured his defeat in the next election. The blame game may work in the first year of an administration, but doesn't 3 years in. Absent another John McCain disaster of a nomination (see: Mitt Romney), this election is over before it ever got started.

Edited August 8, 2011 by UNT90

[CMJ]

Bachmann would never win a general election, and I think that above all the GOP wants to take out Obama. Huntsman is not right-wing enough to win the nomination. Gringrich has self destructed, and Pawlenty is going no where. Palin will not run.

So that leaves Romney and Rick Perry (assuming he runs, which I think he will). Perry has a habit of saying nutty things; ultimately, I don't that he will survive the scrutiny that serious candidates for President receive.

So 90 -- I do think Romney will be the nominee.

[eulesseagle]

I corrected the months in control above. The Libs have had at least 2/3rds control the past 57 months I believe.

And just for the record, I'm not solely blaming the Libs. I wasn't happy when Bush signed in the Prescription Drug Plan or TARP. And I'm certainly not happy with those Republicans that caved last week on the Dept limit(even our very own Dr. Micheal Burgess), and I was pleased to see several Libs vote against it as well.

I would just like to see someone, anyone take responsibility and make the changes needed to get this thing going again without the tax rhetoric we keep hearing. And tomorrow will be more the same.

Saturday, a fellow FF friend of mine who is a lib went on and on about the rich not paying their fair share and the corporations not paying their fair share? I just don't understand where that type of class warfare mindset comes from?

Anyways, Congress needs an enema. First thing on the agenda tomorrow morning should be term limits and then go from there.

Rick

FFR you have to get in the "Way Back Machine" for this one.

1. Barney Frank and the democrats, during the Clinton admin pushed through the "Everyone in American can buy a House Program." This forced the banks to hand out bad loans....I don't have to go into detail because everyone knows the story. This, IMHO, was the begining of the housing financial debacle.

Now, B.Frank wants to "gut" the military to save Freddie and Fannie Mac.....which may be down graded....and before it is downgraded ... then look for another "bailout." Heck Greenspan said last week that we can print more money. What? This is a default. Only people who have bought out would do something like this.

2. Prez Wilson and his admin let the "international bankers" have control of our money. Hence the Federal Reserve.....It is not federal nor is it reserve.....everyone knows the story.

3. Class warfare? take a look at the 1964 Civil Right's Act. Not really civil and not really right. The democrats, with this act, bought the votes of those this act protected and the entire tentical system that grew from this entitlement. Heck, entitlements have been around forever. Just take a look at the history of the Northeastern cities. Immigrants departing the boats and the democratic party bosses wait for them with housing , jobs, and food for their vote. Read "Up from the Streets the life of Alfred Smith" or "Milligan" (Thomas Pendegast: democratic party boss of K.C....Prez Truman was part of this). The CRA 1964, as you know, includes hiring practices....and one only has to take a look at past lawsuits that are challenging these practices. Is it fair? nope....is it law? yep.

4. Personally, I have not voted for a dem or a rep in quite a while. Why? they have not represented me for quite a while....a long while. When the democrats are in power they grab as much socialism as possible. When the republicans are in power they do not do anything to repeal these laws and in many cases add to the socialistic agenda by being bought by the special interest groups. Bohner and the republicans caved again and the boogyman is the tea party. Both parties know the tea party is a threat to their existance.

5. If anyone really thinks that Obama, Bush I or II, and Clinton were their own men while in the White House I would dare say they were just "puppets" to the people who really run the "Global Economy"....the internationalists. Yep the same folks who took our money from Wilson and put us in the federal reserve.

Edited August 8, 2011 by eulesseagle

[meangreenacct]

FFR you have to get in the "Way Back Machine" for this one.

1. Barney Frank and the democrats, during the Clinton admin pushed through the "Everyone in American can buy a House Program." This forced the banks to hand out bad loans....I don't have to go into detail because everyone knows the story. This, IMHO, was the begining of the housing financial debacle.

2. Prez Wilson and his admin let the "international bankers" have control of our money. Hence the Federal Reserve.....It is not federal nor is it reserve.....everyone knows the story.

3. Class warfare? take a look at the 1964 Civil Right's Act. Not really civil and not really right. The democrats, with this act, bought the votes of those this act protected and the entire tentical system that grew from this entitlement. Heck, entitlements have been around forever. Just take a look at the history of the Northeastern cities. Immigrants departing the boats and the democratic party bosses wait for them with housing , jobs, and food for their vote. Read "Up from the Streets the life of Alfred Smith" or "Milligan" (Thomas Pendegast: democratic party boss of K.C....Prez Truman was part of this). The CRA 1964, as you know, includes hiring practices....and one only has to take a look at past lawsuits that are challenging these practices. Is it fair? nope....is it law? yep.

4. Personally, I have not voted for a dem or a rep in quite a while. Why? they have not represented me for quite a while....a long while. When the democrats are in power they grab as much socialism as possible. When the republicans are in power they do not do anything to repeal these laws and in many cases add to the socialistic agenda by being bought by the special interest groups. Bohner and the republicans caved again and the boogyman is the tea party. Both parties know the tea party is a threat to their existance.

5. If anyone really thinks that Obama, Bush I or II, and Clinton were their own men while in the White House I would dare say they were just "puppets" to the people who really run the "Global Economy"....the internationalists. Yep the same folks who took our money from Wilson and put us in the federal reserve.

For part #5, can I find out more about this by using the internets?

[eulesseagle]

For part #5, can I find out more about this by using the internets?

sure you can....books from the late 19th century to present and the internet.....but you already knew that.

[Censored by Laurie]

sure you can....books from the late 19th century to present and the internet.....but you already knew that.

Man...that seems like a lot of dots, huh?

[UNT90]

Bachmann would never win a general election, and I think that above all the GOP wants to take out Obama. Huntsman is not right-wing enough to win the nomination. Gringrich has self destructed, and Pawlenty is going no where. Palin will not run.

So that leaves Romney and Rick Perry (assuming he runs, which I think he will). Perry has a habit of saying nutty things; ultimately, I don't that he will survive the scrutiny that serious candidates for President receive.

So 90 -- I do think Romney will be the nominee.

Romney is un-nominatable. Never happen. Especially after the debt crisis (that whole failed Social Medicine experiment in Mass. will be his undoing).

Perry is a joke on the national scene, and will say anything to get elected.

I would guess that the nominee will be someone like a Herman Cain. Someone with a lot of experience running businesses and hardly any in elected political office experience. At least I hope that's the type that gets the nomination.

Lots of time for new candidates to enter. Marco Rubio would be an interesting candidate, also.

Edited August 8, 2011 by UNT90

[MeanGreenTexan]

Man...that seems like a lot of dots, huh?

I clearly counted 9 dots in his post.

Now, connect them, and I get Pres. Bush eating a strawberry ice cream sundae out of a hubcap off of an '81 oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme while Pres. Obama is watching 'Shark Week' in leopard print silk boxers. I'm not good at connecting dots...

[meangreenacct]

Romney is un-nominatable. Never happen. Especially after the debt crisis (that whole failed Social Medicine experiment in Mass. will be his undoing).

Perry is a joke on the national scene, and will say anything to get elected.

I would guess that the nominee will be someone like a Herman Cain. Someone with a lot of experience running businesses and hardly any in elected political office. At least I hope that's the type that gets the nomination.

Lots of time for new candidates to enter. Marco Rubio would be an interesting candidate, also.

You really think Herman Cain has a better chance than Romney? I find that hard to believe. I think Perry is a joke, but probably has a much better chance than Cain. I think Cain is one of those who as more people listen to him realize they aren't as impressed with them as they thought they were.

[UNT90]

You really think Herman Cain has a better chance than Romney? I find that hard to believe. I think Perry is a joke, but probably has a much better chance than Cain. I think Cain is one of those who as more people listen to him realize they aren't as impressed with them as they thought they were.

Romney has ZERO chance of a conservative nomination. I know, republican party does not equal conservative, but I think you will see a big conservative shift,. particularly in fiscal responsibility, from the Republican party in 2012. And yes, the tea party will lead the way.

I think the more people listen to Cain, the more impressed they will be, as this demostrates. Not only that, people are sick and tired of career politicians.

Edited August 8, 2011 by UNT90

[Censored by Laurie]

Romney has ZERO chance of a conservative nomination. I know, republican party does not equal conservative, but I think you will see a big conservativwe shift,. particularly in fiscal responsibility, from the conservative party in 2012. And yes, the tea party will lead the way.

I think the more people listen to Cain, the more impressed they will be, as this demostrates. Not only that, people are sick and tired of career politicians.

Well given this lot...:

Michele Bachmann -- 9 percent, 44 votes

John Bolton -- 4 percent, 20 votes

Herman Cain -- 48 percent, 246 votes

Newt Gingrich -- 1 percent, 3 votes

Rudy Giuliani -- 0 percent, 0 votes

Jon Huntsman -- 0 percent, 1 vote

Gary Johnson -- 0 percent, 1 vote

Thaddeus McCotter -- 0 percent, 2 votes

Sarah Palin -- 1 percent, 5 votes

Ron Paul -- 2 percent, 12 votes

Tim Pawlenty -- 1 percent, 7 votes

Rick Perry -- 13 percent, 67 votes

Mitt Romney -- 10 percent, 49 votes

Rick Santorum -- 10 percent, 50 votes

Paul Ryan -– 1 vote

I guess Cain would be third on my list, behind Ron Paul and Thaddeus McCotter (just for the name)

[glick1980]

I corrected the months in control above. The Libs have had at least 2/3rds control the past 57 months I believe.

And just for the record, I'm not solely blaming the Libs. I wasn't happy when Bush signed in the Prescription Drug Plan or TARP. And I'm certainly not happy with those Republicans that caved last week on the Dept limit(even our very own Dr. Micheal Burgess), and I was pleased to see several Libs vote against it as well.

I would just like to see someone, anyone take responsibility and make the changes needed to get this thing going again without the tax rhetoric we keep hearing. And tomorrow will be more the same.

Saturday, a fellow FF friend of mine who is a lib went on and on about the rich not paying their fair share and the corporations not paying their fair share? I just don't understand where that type of class warfare mindset comes from?

Anyways, Congress needs an enema. First thing on the agenda tomorrow morning should be term limits and then go from there.

Rick

Perhaps it comes from the fact that corporate profits have risen over 30% since 2008, while employee wages for those corporations have risen 0%.

[eulesseagle]

I believe it will come down to Ron Paul and Michelle Bauchman.

Mitt Romney... will fail on his hellth care in Mass.

Gingrich......part of the establishment...and just wants to sell more books & no interest in the presidency.

Cain..........no name recognition...has good ideas.

Perry.........too many shaddy deals in Texas.

Palin.........has already been demonize by the press...has good ideas.

The rest......no name recognition.

Trump.........in/out/in/out...mr. bankruptcy won't run.

Huckabee......see Gingrich...will make more off his TV show.

Jeb Bush......I hope not.

Jersey Gov....sounds like a good gov...but his heart.

[UNT90]

Perhaps it comes from the fact that corporate profits have risen over 30% since 2008, while employee wages for those corporations have risen 0%.

Amazing knowledge base you have. I mean, to know the name of every single corporation in America is astounding, much less to know the wage of every single employee for every single corporation and to know that none of these millions of people have gotten a raise.

[Mean Green Matt]

For part #5, can I find out more about this by using the internets?

Read this....the guy who wrote it sourced everything....and its not from the interwebs. It isn't really about presidents being figure heads and what not, but it does show that the federal reserve is not what the general public thinks it is...

Edited August 8, 2011 by Mean Green Matt

[UNT90]

If Pres. Obama is as weak next year as he is right now, expect the nominee form the Republican party to be very to extremely conservative. That is what political parties do. Look at 2008. Bush had been vilified and had an approval rating in the high 20s. The Republicans do a give up with McCain as the nominee, and the Dems answer with easily the most liberal nominee ever put before the American people.

Same thing in 1980. Carter was a disaster of a President. The Republicans nominate Reagan, who many in the media believed would start WW3 because he was so conservative and such a hawkl.

What do these elections have in common? Landslide victories for the party out of power.

Absent a Romney (or other Rhino nomination) or a miraculous economic recovery, this is what you will see in 2012.

[meangreenacct]

Read this....the guy who wrote it sourced everything....and its not from the interwebs. It isn't really about presidents being figure heads and what not, but it does show that the federal reserve is not what the general public thinks it is...

After researching the author of the book, I don't have high hopes for finding an unbiased fact based view of the federal reserve system.

Most authors do source everything, the real issue is where are they sourcing? Authors, especially ones who approach an issue they are writing about with strongly held personal feelings, tend to source in a less than honest way. Why? Obviously very few readers will ever go to all the source material to check it out. Often you will see sources built largely on opinions of other similarly minded writers and questionable paraphrasing and interpretation of sourced material.

[gangrene]

Calm down folks...the sky is not falling and we will all see the light of day come Monday morning. There is a theory that the markets had already priced this downgrade in as it has been known to be coming for many weeks if not months. Corporate earnings continue to be pretty strong and the US still has one of the very highest ratings in the world. Yes, we may see some volatility Monday morning, but it may not be as bad as some here seem to think. The challenge will come if everyone (see Saudi Arabia & China) holding US debt panics and opens up Monday in a selling mood. If that happens, yes, hide the women and children, but there is a lot of behind the scenes work going on and lots was done even before the downgrade.

Anyway, most people sell at the wrong time and buy at the wrong time. Take that into consideration before you make any move. By the time the general public buys or sells it is often "after the fact" and at the absolute wrong time as all the "smart money" moved some time ago...one way of the other. But, the good news is that everyone gets to make their own call as it is their money. Unlike the crap DC is doing with "other people's money" these days.

Yep, it was pretty much as bad as I thought it might be. I bought on the way down, but it just kept falling. My portfolio took an 8% hit. Today's point drop places it at #6 on the all time list. Last Thursday is now #10. The good news is that what goes down usually comes back up in the stock market. Many of the best, single-day point gains occurred within a few days of the worst days. Hopefully, that pattern will repeat itself.

[eulesseagle]

After researching the author of the book, I don't have high hopes for finding an unbiased fact based view of the federal reserve system.

Most authors do source everything, the real issue is where are they sourcing? Authors, especially ones who approach an issue they are writing about with strongly held personal feelings, tend to source in a less than honest way. Why? Obviously very few readers will ever go to all the source material to check it out. Often you will see sources built largely on opinions of other similarly minded writers and questionable paraphrasing and interpretation of sourced material.

looks like some excellent reviews on the book:

http://www.amazon.com/Creature-Jekyll-Island-Federal-Reserve/product-reviews/0912986212/ref=cm_cr_pr_top_link_2?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&pageNumber=2

This is an interesting synopsis of "The Fed"...looks pretty accurate from what I have read in the past.

http://www.infowars.com/the-federal-reserve-cartel-the-eight-families/

Edited August 8, 2011 by eulesseagle

[UNT90]

Yep, it was pretty much as bad as I thought it might be. I bought on the way down, but it just kept falling. My portfolio took an 8% hit. Today's point drop places it at #6 on the all time list. Last Thursday is now #10. The good news is that what goes down usually comes back up in the stock market. Many of the best, single-day point gains occurred within a few days of the worst days. Hopefully, that pattern will repeat itself.

But, in the past there has normally been a grain of economic hope for the investor to grab hold of. Not so much this time. I see it bottoming out around 8,000 before Christmas.

Edited August 8, 2011 by UNT90

[meangreenacct]

looks like some excellent reviews on the book:

http://www.amazon.com/Creature-Jekyll-Island-Federal-Reserve/product-reviews/0912986212/ref=cm_cr_pr_top_link_2?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&pageNumber=2

This is an interesting synopsis of "The Fed"...looks pretty accurate from what I have read in the past.

http://www.infowars.com/the-federal-reserve-cartel-the-eight-families/

Yep when I want unbiased information I tend to go to knowingly conservative sites, since obviously they tend to be unbiased.

As far as the reviews, I would suspect most (obiously not all) of his readers subscribe to his world view, therefore you would tend to expect in general positive reviews of the material. Obviously is I go to books of someone well known, like Sean Hannity or Michael Moore, I would expect to see a lower review score since their notoriety would most likely lead to people from the other side writing reviews to simply give the books a 1.