What should be the prototype program?

meangreen11 · March 19, 2006

To me, Memphis is a program we should realisitically strive to be like. They haven't been good an any of the major sports until recently. They have developed great fan support and pride in their school. They have hired outstanding coaches. They have a city that supports them. They clearly have good consistent leaders at the top who are making it happen.

I'm watching them play in the NCAA tourney today and their fans are making a good showing as they did in New Orleans a couple of years ago.

I am really tired of all the Coach Dickey and JJ bashing on here. When will you guys realize that it takes leadership at the top levels to move up to the next level. Bobby Ray, Lee Jackson and the new President will be the ones who hold the keys to the future of this program.

untgeorge · March 19, 2006

To me, Memphis is a program we should realisitically strive to be like. They haven't been good an any of the major sports until recently.
Striving to be like Memphis is fine, but the last statement is not accurate. They have been to the NCAA tournament 18 times and to the NIT several times. They have been to the Final Four at least twice, probably more. Memphis has a long and storied men's bb program.

Hunter Green · March 19, 2006

The problems, as I see it, are multiple. First off, NT has NO tradition to build from when compared to the other D-1 programs in Tx. People in the north Texas region are big timers, meaning, if you're not in the Big 12, you can't even think of competing for publicity, especially when try to compete against the pro teams in this area.

Secondly, I do not think NT will ever escape the doldrums they're in now because no one (BOR excluded) in power @ NT really gives a rats ass about NT. Oh sure, you get the lip service, but, where is the passion, where is the action that's needed to kick start this fine university. Music majors and teachers do not give much money back to their university. What is needed (LJ, or one of his cronies, are you reading?) is for the engineering school, pharmacy school, and law school to get off the ground and produce money giving individuals who feel a tie to NT. That, and getting into a conference with schools that the local Joe can identify with.

My rant. Fire away.

meangreen11 · March 19, 2006

I stand corected untgeorge. I don't follow basketball as closely. I still think Memphis would be a good program to emulate.

I think leadership is the key BUT good leaders will find a way to put good coaches in place. I'm sorry, but when I watched A$M last night almost beat LSU it dawned on me that a good coach can make a bad program good. Billy Gillespie is one of those difference maker coaches that are so valuable.

eulesseagle · March 19, 2006

1. Well, to emulate anyone you have to start with a coach who can recruit.

-------------so far 0-1

2. huuuummmmmmm......DD/RF

-------------so far 0-2

3. You have to have an administration (including BOR/AD) who want to commit to the program.

--------------so far 0-3

4. You have to have a coach who can adjust during the game.

--------------so far 0-4

5. You have to have a coach who can win OOC games.

--------------so far 0-5

6. You have to have a coach who is the Haden Fry of P.R..

--------------so far 0-6

if the BOR/AD are not going to commit UNT to an excellent program and try to get an experienced coach then I am for playing WAC, MAC and a bunch of D-1AA teams.

UNT is ranked #107 out of 117 D-1A programs and probably #140 if you include D-1AA schools which does not put us in the top 20 of D-1AA. We have played over 30 games against the likes of Texas, Oklahoma, K-State, Alabama, Arkansas, LSU etc (under DD) and it has reaped "NO"......i repeat "NO" benefits to our recruiting under DD/RV!!!!!! For those who say you have to play big time schools to move up.....hahahahaha.....UNT has moved "DOWN." How do you explain that??

FWIW....this is not a negative post......it is a Joe Friday post (just the facts, mam).

Monkeypox · March 20, 2006

For those who say you have to play big time schools to move up.....hahahahaha.....UNT has moved "DOWN." How do you explain that??
FWIW....this is not a negative post......it is a Joe Friday post (just the facts, mam).
←

1) I don't think there's an objective way to say where our program has moved, as a whole, so it's really just an opinion. For instance, it's MY opinion that we've not really gone anywhere, but rather maintained or status as one of the more craptacular teams in the nation. It's hard to say we've gone DOWN to one of the worst programs in the country from being one of the worst programs in the country.

2) We've played more patsies than we have big time schools over the years, by a wide margin, by virtue of playing in the SBC (don't get upset fellow SBC-ers, we're patsies, too). So it would make MORE sense to say that our playing a schedule made up of nobodies has been holding us back. You have to play big time schools for money and recognition. Then you've got to beat everybody that ISN'T big time. We've failed at the second part.

Me, I think our failures come from a lot of places. Coaching is certainly a major one in my book. But you've got to be able to pay that coach, and big time programs give us big time money to be a sacrificial lamb. But you also need an administration with the sack to make a change.

UNTX · March 20, 2006

Southern Miss is another good program to emulate.

NT80 · March 20, 2006

I am really tired of all the Coach Dickey and JJ bashing on here. When will you guys realize that it takes leadership at the top levels to move up to the next level. Bobby Ray, Lee Jackson and the new President will be the ones who hold the keys to the future of this program.
←

Bobby Ray, Lee Jackson, and the new President don't coach.

untbowler · March 20, 2006

Bobby Ray, Lee Jackson, and the new President don't coach.
←

as well as they don't call plays, adjust in games, or recruit players.

I love how everyone wants to continually shift the blame for poor seasons away from the coaches.

I guess it is the admins fault the golf team finished next to last this weekend in Laredo, the admins fault that the tennis team has lost 8 straight, the admins fault that the swim porgram has done nothing, etc......

BleedGreen64 · March 20, 2006

Southern Miss would be good as well as our former Missouri Valley partners - Memphis, Louisville, Cincinnati, etc. The MVC was the best basketball conference in the nation back then and is still doing well with Bradley and Wichita (who dropped football). Wonder what the landscape would look like now if we all had stayed the MVC course? Dropping to 1AA was the kiss of death.

buff64 · March 20, 2006

Why not look closer to home for a school to emulate ? TCU has been remarkable in their resurgence in football, basketball ( both Mens and Womens ) and baseball.They show that it can be done in the metroplex.

eulesseagle · March 20, 2006

Buff-

I am sure that there are coaches who have college head coach experience that would be willing to take the reigns of this program who know how to recruit and develop a program with our budget.

At the same time, IMHO again, it is the responsibility of the BOR/AD to make the decision to: (1) keep UNT in its current "status quo" status in our athletic programs (2) keep its current "status quo" for our coaching staffs and (3) keep its current "status quo" on building a new stadium.

FWIW the direction of UNT is not toward athletics but directed at UNT-Dallas.

Unless the BOR/AD change its current philosophy then the direction of the athletic programs will remain where they currently are: (1) #107 out of 117 D-1A programs, probably #140 if you factor in D-1AA programs....not even in the top 20 of D-1AA, an absolute dismal OOC record over the last 8 years and playing top tier BCS schools have NOT improved the quality of players and quality of coaching.

This also takes in all of our programs.

If this is the philosophy of our "UNT Fathers" then I am not opposed to loading our schedule with MAC, WAC and D-1AA programs until we get committed leaders to improve our current "status quo" in athletics.

March 20, 2006

as well as they don't call plays, adjust in games, or recruit players.
I love how everyone wants to continually shift the blame for poor seasons away from the coaches.
I guess it is the admins fault the golf team finished next to last this weekend in Laredo, the admins fault that the tennis team has lost 8 straight, the admins fault that the swim porgram has done nothing, etc......

←

What you're saying about the coaches is true, however, the administration is the only one that can correct the situation. There must be a committment from the administration or we will continue to flounder from one mediocre coach to another.

Even if we could get that committment, there is presently not enough financial support to try to correct the problem en masse. It will likely have to be done one sport at a time, starting with the one that can make an impact the quickest and loudest. Whether football or basketball, go for the top person available (within reason). If the program becomes successful, it will help fuel donations and support for other sports. Then, go for a top-notch coach in another sport, where necessary, and so on, and so on.

By the way, I do not believe that there is a model for us to follow. Every Division 1-A program is uniquie. No one has similar size, competition, media coverage, recruiting area, financial support, etc. I would try to take successful parts from various programs to build a prototype.

NT91 · March 20, 2006

Southern Miss is another good program to emulate.
←

YES

Got5onIt · March 20, 2006

Boise St.

eagle60 · March 21, 2006

I'd even consider Fresno State. They have very attractive sports venues for football and basketball. They have a football coach that won't back down and strong fan support because of it.

It is a state school, officially the California State U at Fresno. It's sort of the ag school in the state. Most of the money for the facilities were donated from local businesses. They have to compete with USC, UCLA, and others but they play an exciting brand of football.

That's kinda what we want for our school!