Quote from first time visitor to Fouts

[NT80]

As posted in the tread about Fouts; points out what outsiders think of Fouts. I agree it is a bad first impression for our University and needs to be addressed ASAP....

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"Fouts Field! Awful!!

Great game played by both teams! One of the most exciting ever....it was well worth the hour I drove to see it but...

What a pathetic venue to hold a game of that magnitude! I've seen 2 and 3A stadiums that would put that place to shame. The stands are at least 30 yards away from the field with only a very small section of box seats!! The press box and stands look about 50 years old and way outdated! What parent would want to sit in that place for 4 or 5 years to watch their son play??

How embarrassing for a D1 program like UNT to play in a dump like that! Do they put any money into renovating their facilities? Pathetic..."

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[GrandGreen]

Am I the only one that thinks the largest problem illustrated by this fan's observations is not that Fouts is a second rate facility. But that we have school districts building athletic palaces when the state cannot even adequately fund the academic mission of schools. This unlike college facilites comes straight out of the taxpayers pockets. I think that is far more pathetic than some complaining fan's disappointment at having to endure a game at Fouts.

Edited December 4, 2005 by GrandGreen

[ipEAGLE]

Agreed... the amount of cash being spent on HIGH SCHOOL stadiums is outrageous. Its sad when a stadium is worth more than the WHOLE school.

[KingDL1]

"Fouts Field! Awful!!

Great game played by both teams! One of the most exciting ever....it was well worth the hour I drove to see it but...

What a pathetic venue to hold a game of that magnitude! I've seen 2 and 3A stadiums that would put that place to shame. The stands are at least 30 yards away from the field with only a very small section of box seats!! The press box and stands look about 50 years old and way outdated! What parent would want to sit in that place for 4 or 5 years to watch their son play??

How embarrassing for a D1 program like UNT to play in a dump like that! Do they put any money into renovating their facilities? Pathetic..."

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Who gives a sh*t?

If and when we start beating teams that matter to those in the DFW area the attendance will sky-rocket and we will be able to get all kinds of sponsors and donors that we can finance a very nice new Stadium. Until then screw them, Highland Park has more money than they know what to do with. If they want they can send some money!

[tonyhuntoon]

Agreed... the amount of cash being spent on HIGH SCHOOL stadiums is outrageous.  Its sad when a stadium is worth more than the WHOLE school.

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Totally agree on both points. Fouts does suck, and there are some high schools with better facilities. You only have to look at SL Carroll and figure that out. NICE stadium, but some of the lowest paid teachers in the DFW area.

[FirefightnRick]

The stands are at least 30 yards away from the field

No, it's 33 1/2 yards from the field.

To me, the new Denton ISD complex is the nicest HS facility to date in the DFWD region.

Rick

[PlummMeanGreen]

No, it's 33 1/2 yards from the field. 

To me, the new Denton ISD complex is the nicest HS facility to date in the DFWD region.

Rick

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And A Few Monday Addendums At the Bottom of Page:

Well, FFR, some of our fellow Parker County-ites over in Aledo have told me they are going to top Denton ISD's palace with their planned new stadium. I told them that I'll believe that when I see it.

They are passionate about their Texas HS football over in Aledo, though. Heck, I swear I believe I've seen as many Aledo Bearcat decals on cars around these parts as TCU in FW (and I kid you not).

But on the subject of Fouts Field..........those who criticize that facility (built over a half century ago) from outside the Mean Green family I suppose feel they are making some kind of new revelation to the rest of us about our old edifice, eh? We do appreciate their letting us know what we have, though.

Of course, some of that group of our critics who were at Fouts yesterday for the Highland Park/Stephenville play-off game (apparently) didn't look across the interstate to see a most impressive athletic village rising from the rolling Texas prairie, either. They probably didn't take a tour of the rest of our campus, either.

The first time I sat in venerable ol' Fouts (as I've said before) was in September of 1973 to watch new NT head football coach Hayden Fry make his debut there and I remember one of our party of 4 at the game said: "Jeez, I think our school needs to build a new football stadium befitting the direction Hayden Fry says he wants to take Mean Green football." Well, that's now been 32 years ago, fellow alums/fans.

OK, we all know that new stadium is all about money--Big Money. From the first day they announced NT football operations were moving across the interstate most knew then what we know now: UNT will still need a Big Donor or 2 or 3 to get this thing jump-started and finished. That part has never changed.

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Many long-timers and "just arrived on campus" types are more than curious as to what has taken place in recent days/months that is going to allow that new stadium to open by 2009 (as was officially announced on the official NT Athletic Dept. board weeks ago). If it is classified information that confidentiality is essential, so be it, but some would still say it very normal that many of us who've have been around NT a few decades (or less) would still be curious.

So one tells us there will be a new stadium debut in 2009, but the chairman of the board of regents at UNT says no activity at all on that project? Sorta' reminds some of us of a similar "uncertain sound of a trumpet" or direction of a football program with a handful on campus who are dedicated to the one who will insure that it stays that way (and with more of us now recognizing definite trends and key 1-AA losses in past years that would verify that).

Hey, we all admire some UNT employer/employee loyalties, but not the kind that will be at the expense of the rest of the UNT community who are being asked to annually invest in some of those loyalties.

BTW, it is that very same UNT community that still has to validate decisions being made on campus by the purchase of footballl season tickets and Game Day purchases; but the Mean Green community I've observed for going on 4 decades will not for long keep supporting the veiled success that some are buying into.

YET...........the $60,000 question is how long will it take our BOR's to fathtom that future Sunday AM DRC/DMN/FWST boxscore attendance figures at UNT (outside of rare Denton-based games like a SMU vs UNT) fully realize this and then do what they need to do for the majority who they seem to think should be showing up for validate their on-campus decisions.

Any of you know any other NCAA D1-A school's leaderships that would rubber-stamp such blantant mediocrity to allow such a circus; especially with a NT head football coach whose approval rating among the MG Nation would probably even be lower than George W's is at this moment (although I like most of what the President has done)?

I still haven't seen anyone on this board (except those who DD must have bought a beer) post something like this: "Yeah man, lets sign this guy to yet another extension so we can keep all these other NCAA D1-A schools who keep putting them on their "serious candidate lists" from snatching him away from us.

GOD BLESS TEXAS!

Edited December 5, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

[Maverick]

I saw this same thread on "The Old Coach" and it does not surprise me. I spent four seasons at Fouts and have great memories there, but it is a horrible place to watch a game and we all know it. But let's not start slamming High School programs for getting done what we want at UNT. As far as schools being under funded that is a legislative problem not a community problem. If any community wants to spend money on a new stadium, let em do it. If they pay their teachers poorly, those teachers can go fill out an application somewhere else. I am a coach and a teacher, and here is a news flash I didn't go into this business to get rich! I make a great deal less than those at SLC. We build facilities for KIDS. Not for recruiting, or television exposure. Most stadiums are built with the use of bonds, voted on by local taxpayers. I just left a program that built a weight room nicer than the one we had during my years at UNT(much nicer). 1/2 the money was donated, 1/2 came from 10 million dollars given to the school district by a poor school 30 miles down the road(where I work now). But the people enjoying the benifits of it are the KIDS at that school. How proud will they be when they leave of what they had in High School. Very Proud.

All of this leads to why the stadium issue is huge at UNT, I as a coach would NEVER schedule a playoff game at Fouts. I would go to Rose, Handby, Pennington,Waco ISD, Burelson all before Fouts. Why? Becuase the parents would feel like that poster from the Old Coach. Build a new stadium and I will push to get my playoff games there, just so my kids can see UNT.

With what High Schools are doing it makes the issue of a stadium more important, do you think a kid from Texas High would want to play at Fouts, They have an indoor practice facility that is pretty nice, does he get one of those at UNT?

So he goes to Texas or A&M or Arkansas or LSU. You want to compete against those guys well it starts with Fouts. And that means it starts with us as Alumns!

We can keep blamin Dickey and the offense, but get real! D-1 talent is going to be hard to convince to come and play at Fouts. I know, we brought kids to a UNT game, they were unimpressed. They were more impressed with SMU(that kills my soul to say). But look at the stadiums! That is what the kids see first at the game. We have come a long way with our fans(I say that hoping this year does not set us back) Now we need the stadium, we have to find a way to get it done. I am not sure where to begin, I am a teacher, I can only donate so much!

But let's stop ripping High Schools for building great facilities for their kids and start understanding the climate of football in our state and get Dickey and his staff a stadium so he can take the program to the next level.

Or lets bitch and moan and blame everybody else! That will get it done!

It starts with the Alumni.

If we give the money, they will build it, the kids will come, we will win. Even with our offensive scheme.

Ok, Flame away! I said what I wanted to.

GMG!

[res1dg16]

What were the coaches thinking when they agreed to play at FF?

[FirefightnRick]

We can keep blamin Dickey and the offense, but get real! D-1 talent is going to be hard to convince to come and play at Fouts.

GMG!

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I completely agree with 99.99% of your entire thread but this statement. I know what he's up against in recruiting, and I think he has done a good job, recruiting ie..bringing in talent in the past. But what he's done with the offense, is offensive. Averaging as the 106th offense over a 6 year period, by two passing college QB's from the past, is as I said, offensive. No other way to spin it.

But right on with the rest.

Rick

[Coach]

Good post Maverick. People get confused on how high school athletic facilities are funded, and why they are important. Teacher pay in Texas is bad, but that has to do with the fine folks in Austin voting themselves retirement packages equivalent to federal judges and not doing a thing about school funding. Every school should be outstanding in all aspects, academics, fine arts, and athletics.

I know this has been said on here many times, but it is still as true as ever...What do others think about NT's commitment to being excellent in all areas driving down 35 and passing the world class Murchison, and then the outdated and underwhelming Fouts Field? We all know the answer to that, and until more is done, the scary thing is that it might be more than a perception, it could be reality.

[greenjoe]

Was there also a game played last night at C.C. Collins (Denton ISD0 ? If not, why was this game played at Fouts ?

[Coach]

Collins does not seat enough for the crowd they expected.

[Maverick]

I completely agree with 99.99% of your entire thread but this statement.  I know what he's up against in recruiting, and I think he has done a good job, recruiting ie..bringing in talent in the past.  But what he's done with the offense, is offensive.  Averaging as the 106th offense over a 6 year period, by two passing college QB's from the past, is as I said, offensive.  No other way to spin it.

But right on with the rest.

Rick

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Well, I know it might be hard to deal with, but I always think back to what a coach told me my first year coaching, and remember this, he coached 20 years at the D-1 level, including a National Championship at OU in the 80's and he ran the spread offense. I asked him about different offensive schemes since he had been around so many and he said this...

"It's not about x's and o's, it's about Charlies and Joes"

The more I coach the more this rings true.

here is another just for fun..different coach..

"there is three things that can happen when you throw the ball, and two of them are bad"

also, then I will quit

We ran the spread offense when Simon and Parker were here! Man I miss those days!

More and more people are starting to notice us as of late and most that I run into say something about rushing champions PC or Super Jamario, that happened in Dickey's offense.

I don't really care who coaches at UNT, they will have my support, didn't mean for this thread to turn into a Dickey apology. I just know that coaches who leave Denton tend to be successful after they leave... Simon was an idiot, now he has a Super Bowl ring! Kragethorp left and look at him now! People know Fry because of Iowa not NT!

[NT80]

Was there also a game played last night at C.C. Collins (Denton ISD0 ?  If not, why was this game played at Fouts ?

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Denton ISD's facility, as nice as it is, is limited by size and only holds ~14,000. They needed a stadium that held 30K in case that many showed up. 21,000 did. Again, UNT is cutting itself out of free advertising to these high school programs by not have a modern facility. Denton is in a good location to hold playoffs but lacks a "decent" sized facility.

[NT80]

What were the coaches thinking when they agreed to play at FF?

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Highland Park had already played games at Texas Stadium and SMU was seen as too much a home field advantage for them too. Stephenville coaches opted for Fouts as neutral. I'm surprised they didn't go to TCU's stadium as an alternate.

[NT80]

I saw this same thread on "The Old Coach" and it does not surprise me. I spent four seasons at Fouts and have great memories there, but it is a horrible place to watch a game and we all know it. But let's not start slamming High School programs for getting done what we want at UNT. As far as schools being under funded that is a legislative problem not a community problem. If any community wants to spend money on a new stadium, let em do it.

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Agreed, the point of the thread is not what facilities high school's have, but how lousy Fouts is perceived by parents expecting UNT to have a nice, MODERN facility. It hurts UNT's image. All 1-A's and most 1-AAs in Texas have nicer, newer stadiums.

Edited December 4, 2005 by NT80

[Maverick]

The point of the thread is not what facilities high school's have, but how lousy Fouts is perceived by parents expecting UNT to have a nice, MODERN facility.  It hurts UNT's image.  All 1-A's and most 1-AAs in Texas have nicer, newer stadiums.

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I realize that, I agree with you, I was just responding to those who made the comments about High Schools.

But I do think that where High Schools have gone has done a great deal to affect people's expectations of a D-1 school.

[NT80]

I realize that, I agree with you, I was just responding to those who made the comments about High Schools.

But I do think that where High Schools have gone has done a great deal to affect people's expectations of a D-1 school.

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I agreed with all of your post, just pulled that part out to emphasis like you said: what high schools have is their business, but what they see and think about Fouts is what should be concerning to us. Good post.

[greenjoe]

Why are attendance figures not posted in the box score of high school games (or anywhere else for that matter) ?

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

What were the coaches thinking when they agreed to play at FF?

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Certainly not the fans. But, they may have been thinking of the condition of the field and accessibility (remember it's just across from the 200 acres where I-35 E and W merge. The turf looks great and I'd guess plays great as well.

[ipEAGLE]

Why they chose to play at Fouts:

Great playing surface

Holds 30,000

Plenty of Parking

Easy to find

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The only negative is the seating distance from the field...

Why not play at Fouts?

Edited December 4, 2005 by ipEAGLE

[Greenblood94]

Why are attendance figures not posted in the box score of high school games (or anywhere else for that matter) ?

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Because, except for high-profile playoff games, it is not a meaningful statistic.

Southlake Carroll/Plano drew 32,000+ for the first game of a tripleheader at Texas Stadium last Saturday. I was there. I guarantee you, the attendance for the second game, Hebron/Wylie, was, at most, 10,000. That included fans from the first game who hung around just to watch an intriguing 4A matchup, and fans from the nightcap, Gainesville/Liberty-Eylau, who came early. The final game drew maybe 6,000 tops.

Plus, someone would have to count tickets to determine attendance. Except for facilities like Texas Stadium, where they'd do that anyway, what school district is gonna pay someone to count the attendance, and who'd do it for free, just to find out how many people came to the game?

[MeanMag]

But let's not start slamming High School programs for getting done what we want at UNT

But let's stop ripping High Schools for building great facilities for their kids and start understanding the climate of football in our state and get Dickey and his staff a stadium so he can take the program to the next level.

Or lets bitch and moan and blame everybody else! That will get it done!

Ok, Flame away! I said what I wanted to.

GMG!

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Wow, Maverick, I didn't see anyone ripping highschools for having nicer stadiums than us. Why would they? I agree with everything in your post, donors need to step up. but you got defensive from the get go, and I can't really put my finger on why...

And this might be a news flash to some, but Fouts isn't the only field in D1-A that doesn't have as nice a stadium as highshools. I would also be curious as to what school this person graduated from. My guess is it's a BCS college with a huge endowment.

Edit: And your comment about building athletics facilities for the kids is lost on me, when there are more kids who don't play sports in HS than those that do. I realize these school districts want to compare johnsons and athletics is the most visible way to do that, much like colleges. But don't tell me that they spend money on it "for the kids". They do it because people donate the money for it to have their name on the side of a stadium. Or because a community wants to be taxed to build it. This is not ripping HS's for having better stadiums. I went to HS once too, and I went to every single football game.

It is also much easier to tack on a bond election to the end of a mayoral race or proposition when paying taxes, not tuition, is a MUST for anyone in the city. The stadiums school districts build are usually used by more than one team regularly.

This is why it's easier for a district to get funding for a stadium.

Edited December 5, 2005 by MeanMag

[Maverick]

Am I the only one that thinks the largest problem illustrated by this fan's observations is not that Fouts is a second rate facility.  But that we have school districts building athletic palaces when the state cannot even adequately fund the academic mission of schools.  This unlike college facilites comes straight out of the taxpayers pockets.  I think that is far more pathetic than some complaining fan's disappointment at having to endure a game at Fouts.

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Ok, here is what I took as an attack on High Schools, sorry you didn't understand that!

There were a couple of more after that post too! Yes, I got a little defensive!

It bugs me when people rip on communities for building athletic projects and don't understand how most of them are funded. Plus if you don't think Fouts is a dump and that coach was 100% right, then I guess you haven't spent as many days in it as I have. Name another D-1 school with enrollment figures close to ours whose stadium is as bad. Maybe there is one but I can't think of it. I think it is second rate and I went to a Sun Belt School (UNT)!

I am not even going to explain the "for the Kids", if you think they are not built for kids, you just don't get it.

I think most of us agree that Fouts has to be Replaced!