Is anybody else tired of the crying

[calvin]

I have always read the board daily but here lately it is hard for me to even click on here b/c of all the negativity. For all you so called supporters, who have diminished what we have done the last 4 years, shame on you. We cant help who we play and as far as I know we have taken care of business in conference. This may not be the best league but when you knock the whole league at least give credit to some of the things that teams have done in this league. Our first year MTSU had a very good 8-3 team and their only other losses were LSU and Tenn. and they played both of them very good. The year we beat NMSU for the title here they were 6-5 and I believe they almost beat Oregon St. and beat UTEP. Also dont forget about Troy last year beating a MAC bowl team in Marshall. And while I am on the MAC, didnt our conference sweep them last year ? Also didnt Ark. St. take an Eli Manning led Ole Miss team to the limit one year ? And didnt MTSU team beat an undefeated Vandy team this year ? Even though we do have the worst conf. it is not like every game every team gets blown out.

As far as non-conference games go, well I think everybody is frustrated, we all want to win or at least look competitive. I think there has been games where we have been competitive but not this year, our style of offense just doesnt match up well against BCS schools. But somebody tell me this, out of all the non-conference games over the years, how many did we have at home, and how many were against weaker competition in weaker conferences ? Not that many....... No one ever brings up stuff like the year we lost at TCU that George Marshall dropped a TD pass right in his hands, no they blame Dickey. Or no one brings up the fact the year we lost to USF at home they were 9-2 that year and played OU very very tough the week before and they had a very very good Sr. Qb, should we have won the game, yes, but it is not like it was against a 2-9 team. And didnt FAU go 8-3 last year and beat a team that won a bowl game ? People tend to forget that one. Nobody mentions that when we played Arizona that we had an obvious TD not called and they scored on something you never see except for last week's MSU-OSU game, cant tell you when I have seen it before then. I am not completly defending Dickey b/c I sit in the stands and watch frustrated, and I listen to the games frustrated. But if people are going to get on here and bash at least tell both sides of the story. No matter how you slice it, the teams we play in OOC out-recruit us and play in a better conf. then we do.

The last couple things, I stumbled across the NOB program the first year, and there were some similarities with that team and this one. First both very young, Knowlton, Buckles, Branch, Awasom, Cobbs were all Fresh. Spencer, Casey, Hurd, Booger, Hall, Jones were all Soph. Our backfield were new players. We didnt know some of these guys were going to be that good. And they all played a lot. That team struggled the first 5 games, highlighted by the Monroe loss. The offense didnt average very much, something like 140 both running and passing. My point is they were very young and had to grow into good players, we are very young, let these guys grow. 5 games isnt enough 2 years isnt enough, you cant tell me that Spencer and Casey were as good as Soph as they were at Sr's.

Also how come you didnt hear anybody griping about the playcalling when Jamario was rushing for 291 yards ? Funny how that winning works.

[greensteve]

I AGREE

HIGH WATER COVERS STUMPS...

HOW QUICK WE FORGET, HOW GOOD WE'VE BECOME AND WHERE WE CAME FROM, TO GET TO THIS POINT!!!!

[Guest Aquila_Viridis]

Yes I am tired and I don't think you guys really appreciate how much work it is!

[FirefightnRick]

But somebody tell me this, out of all the non-conference games over the years, how many did we have at home, and how many were against weaker competition in weaker conferences ? Not that many....... Or no one brings up the fact the year we lost to USF at home they were 9-2 that year and played OU very very tough the week before and they had a very very good Sr. Qb, should we have won the game, yes, but it is not like it was against a 2-9 team.

At least your able to answer your own questions. That '01 team wasn't coming off of a bowl season with the previous two rushing champions along with 9 other offensive veterans who combined, had 151 games under their belts. No comparison.

Also how come you didnt hear anybody griping about the playcalling when Jamario was rushing for 291 yards ? Funny how that winning works.

Because we expect to win like we did that night against Idaho. Or would you rather it continue to be a shock to people when we do win? And when you use that 291 yard example, you do realize that we had to have all of those 291 yards to beat one of the worst teams in the nation. We were only leading by 8 points with 1:40 left in the game. Idaho ended up 3-9, including 2 wins over Belt teams and a win over 1-AA Eastern Washington. Idaho not only was one of the worst teams overall, but the worst defensive team, yet we had to run the $hit out of Jamario to beat them, and that was the game he reinjured himself on his last run in the game, forcing him to miss the ASU game the next week. He's yet to have a game any where close to that since.

Rick

[NT91]

Yes I am!!!!!!!!

[BleedGreen64]

Count me in.

Complaining = nothing.

Hard intellegent work = suuccess.

[the green rokemi]

No, I am tired of people acting like everything is alright and that it is okay that over the offseason we forgot how to block, we have players who can't make grades, we STILL have discipline problems...blah, blah, blah the list goes on and on...

I for one refuse to turn my back and feign ignorance

and let us not forget the quote in my signature...

Edited October 20, 2005 by the green rokemi

[GDMG]

Yes, I am pretty much fed up with everyone on this board.

[untbowler]

Ok guys so here are the new rules.

Everyone put on your Green Colored Glasses.

There is to be no negativity allowed.

DD is God and we must trust his judgement and accept his comments no matter how insane they may appear. We are just fans and do not have the right to comment negatively on the product being displayed by our school

Edited October 20, 2005 by untbowler

[EagleD]

Calvin,

Good points. But we've raised our expectations. That's not necesarilly a bad thing. As a matter of fact, it's a good thing. Yes, we whine some, maybe too much, but we have an expectation of success and when we don't meet that expectation, we complain. We are not unique. It's true everywhere.

Our bar used to be set at having a .500 season.

It then became win conference

Next was sweep conference and have OOC wins.

We moved the bar higher, and we are not reaching that mark. It's frustrating, but we musn't move backward. Always expect more. Always.

GO MEAN GREEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pollock]

....as far as I know we have taken care of business in conference. 

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Perhaps you haven't heard the bad news about the Troy game.....

No one ever brings up stuff like the year we lost at TCU that George Marshall dropped a TD pass right in his hands, no they blame Dickey. 

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I blame the refs for that one. I still get mad when I think about every time they moved the ball back a yard on us and forward a yard for TCU.

[GMoney]

Complaining does not bother me, apathy does. If people want to volley back and forth over good/bad, coaches, play calling etc., I think that's great. When people stop talking then we've got a problem!

The most important thing is to still show up and support the players. When things are bad is when they need us the most! Fans in the stands is what helps turn around bad seasons. The ability to bring in recruits to see fans at games can help tip a player your direction even if the product on the field is bad. You want both to be good, but fan support is a must.

Fan support for a team does not mean blind allegiance! You can still question what is happening while at the same time supporting you school and team. Because someone complains doesn't mean they're any less of a fan of the team. In many cases, some of those complaining are more diehard than the blind supporters who jump on a bandwagon during good years. Case in point, there is no stronger supporter/fan than FFR who has been thru the very bad and the good. If he's wondering why things have fallen off so much, he has that right. We all know that football is a what have you done lately sport. There are people ready to run Chuck Long (OC) out of OU or how about Joe Pa. (Penn St.) or Phil Fullmer (Tenn), and even Chuck Amato (NC St.). All with good histories of success that are now hearing the rumblings from fans. It's natural and in some ways it's good. It shows people care. Anything is better than apathy.

[El Paso Eagle]

Complaining does not bother me, apathy does.  If people want to volley back and forth over good/bad, coaches, play calling etc., I think that's great.  When people stop talking then we've got a problem!

The most important thing is to still show up and support the players.  When things are bad is when they need us the most!  Fans in the stands is what helps turn around bad seasons.  The ability to bring in recruits to see fans at games can help tip a player your direction even if the product on the field is bad.  You want both to be good, but fan support is a must.

Fan support for a team does not mean blind allegiance!  You can still question what is happening while at the same time supporting you school and team.  Because someone complains doesn't mean they're any less of a fan of the team.  In many cases, some of those complaining are more diehard than the blind supporters who jump on a bandwagon during good years.  Case in point, there is no stronger supporter/fan than FFR who has been thru the very bad and the good.  If he's wondering why things have fallen off so much, he has that right.  We all know that football is a what have you done lately sport.  There are people ready to run Chuck Long (OC) out of OU or how about Joe Pa. (Penn St.) or Phil Fullmer (Tenn), and even Chuck Amato (NC St.).  All with good histories of success that are now hearing the rumblings from fans.  It's natural and in some ways it's good. It shows people care. Anything is better than apathy.

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Excellent Post.

[Green Lantern]

Anything is better than apathy.

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Amen.

[Cerebus]

The most important thing is to still show up and support the players.  When things are bad is when they need us the most!  Fans in the stands is what helps turn around bad seasons.  The ability to bring in recruits to see fans at games can help tip a player your direction even if the product on the field is bad.  You want both to be good, but fan support is a must.

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Quoted for truth.

[SilverEagle]

Anything is better than apathy.

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...and no University is better known for that than us.

Well said.

[UNTSIG]

man where do you start? it is a never ending battle on here between the people that demand more and the people that settle for less. we suck guys. why can't we get that through our heads? i mean my gosh calvin....that was some pretty in depth research to come up with a list of excuses. bottom line: WE LOST....why is that so hard for people to understand? we should have done this....if only he woudl have done this...if the refs would have done this...Are you serious? just quit, it is ridiculous! I love UNT and will come support the team but we have a problem right now. When the house is burning you don't sit back and admire the flames.

[mad dog]

man where do you start?  it is a never ending battle on here between the people that demand more and the people that settle for less.  we suck guys.  why can't we get that through our heads?  i mean my gosh calvin....that was some pretty in depth research to come up with a list of excuses.  bottom line:  WE LOST....why is that so hard for people to understand?  we should have done this....if only he woudl have done this...if the refs would have done this...Are you serious?  just quit, it is ridiculous!  I love UNT and will come support the team but we have a problem right now.  When the house is burning you don't sit back and admire the flames.

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I think this post is a microcosm of what's going on all over the board right now.

The "negative" guys are frustrated (and rightly so) for the poor performance of the team and see any attempt to present any redeeming aspects as "excuses." This group tends to exaggerate the problems we have, and even sometimes make up ones that aren't actually there, just to prove the hammer home point that we are awful, and, in most cases, Coach Dickey/Ramon Flanigan are totally to blame and need to go.

What they don't seem to realize is that most people in the "positive group" feel remarkably the same way about how bad our team is. Dickey-lovers, excuse-makers, pollyannas... all expressions meant to imply that people who think positively don't acknowledge problems at all, and that everything is actually fine.

I'm pretty certain that no one can believe that at this point. There's no one left arguing that we are actually a good team. Presenting statistics, for example, on the things that we happen to be the best at isn't a justification that everything is alright or that nothing needs to change. It IS a way of finding just enough to cling to to keep hope alive that some good might come out of the season.

We KNOW the team isn't very good. We KNOW that the coaches probably have some fault here. We KNOW that what has happened so far won't fly for very long, even with the credibility that the past four years have brought.

But if there's one thing that the "negative" guys say that is true and needs to be taken to heart by everyone is that we should NOT lower our standards and accept a lost season with a "whatever" attitude. Great programs are built by people who care and are emotionally invested. Criticism is a sign of caring, believe it or not, and, any day of the week, I'm happier to see that than no posts at all. Coaches, players, and administrative personnel at ANY level of competition are going to be under fire for not doing enough. Coach Davidson at Valley View High School, Coach Dodge at Southlake Carroll, Coach Dickey at North Texas, Bob Stoops at Oklahoma, Bill Parcells at Dallas, and Bill Belichick at New England: all are faulted for not doing enough, regardless of the job they're doing at the time. That comes with the territory of playing in a competitive enterprise, and I'm not sure any of them are really surprised to hear criticism.

Personally, I'd like it if everyone would just be positive, but I acknowledge that can't be the case. Short of that impossible goal, I'm just happy we've come far enough to expect a high level of play. Remember, guys on both sides, that we all really want to win, and we all really hate to lose. Try not to lose sight of that in our discussions.

[Stan R]

Amen Gmoney.

[UNTSIG]

nice try on the psychological profile of the board illuvius. it was rather interesting. here is where i think that you miss the boat though. it's not all about this year...it's about the last 4 years. i personally think that with our success in the Sun Belt, there has come some inflated belief that our programs is heading in the right direction, when in fact, i don't believe that it is. overall, from an athletics stand point, I would say 100% that we are going in the right direction and I believe in Rick V....from a football stand point, uhm that's a different story all together. Yes we have won the Sun Belt but I am still amazed by the fact that nobody answered my question that I posted 2 weeks ago on this board..if North Texas had been in the Sun Belt for 20 years, how many conference titles do you think we should have won? If you are in the camp that believes we could not have won many titles in the Sun Belt before this streak began 4 years ago and we have improved that much, then I can see why people think that the "negative" people on this board or just getting excited about nothing. These are the folks that see real progress....I on the other hand differ. I think that over the last twenty years, with the current level of competition we have in the Sun Belt, we could have won roughly half (10) of the titles. I look at the OOC games that we have played in the last few years and compare that to yester year and it seems to me that we are not improving. Once again, I will restate it- I believe that UNT FOOTBALL,not UNT ATHLETICS, is improving as much as we have tricked ourselves into believing.

[mad dog]

nice try on the psychological profile of the board illuvius.

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It was not so much a psychological profile as an attempt to get everyone on the same wavelength. Call it what you will, though.

it's not all about this year...it's about the last 4 years.  i personally think that with our success in the Sun Belt, there has come some inflated belief that our programs is heading in the right direction, when in fact, i don't believe that it is.  overall, from an athletics stand point, I would say 100% that we are going in the right direction and I believe in Rick V....from a football stand point, uhm that's a different story all together. 

I'm sorry to have to break this up, as it was a little difficult to find your point initially. It seems like the key word in this, correct me if i'm wrong, is "inflated." I do think that, from the past four years, we're definitely headed in the right direction. The AC, the attendance, the preseason media coverage, and the championships are proof enough of that, regardless of how we might be performing now. I would agree that we aren't there yet, but I would very much like to hear how you figure than we are not heading in the right direction at all, and, how, exactly, you figure we should get there.

Yes we have won the Sun Belt but I am still amazed by the fact that nobody answered my question that I posted 2 weeks ago on this board..if North Texas had been in the Sun Belt for 20 years, how many conference titles do you think we should have won?  I think that over the last twenty years, with the current level of competition we have in the Sun Belt, we could have won roughly half (10) of the titles.

But... we'll never know that, because it never happened. You may very well be right. We might have won 10 of 20. We MIGHT have won 20 of 20. We MIGHT have won 0 of 20. I've only been involved for the past six years with NT football, and I can say that, without a doubt, football has become a much bigger deal. That all starts with winning, such as it is. I'm not sure how quickly you go from being a non-factor D1-AA cupcake to a regional powerhouse, but I have the feeling that if it was as easy as a lot of people make it out to be, any one of the several D1-AA schools in texas would be shelling big-name opponents. I haven't seen that happen very much.

If you are in the camp that believes we could not have won many titles in the Sun Belt before this streak began 4 years ago and we have improved that much, then I can see why people think that the "negative" people on this board or just getting excited about nothing.  These are the folks that see real progress....I on the other hand differ.

And you are more than entitled to your opinion. Please reference my "psychological profile," as you call it. Even if I don't agree with you, I'm glad you care enough to say something. It is also good you can put yourself in the other guy's shoes to see how you might look to others.

I look at the OOC games that we have played in the last few years and compare that to yester year and it seems to me that we are not improving. 

With regard to our OOC woes, you might have a point that we're not improving very much if at all. I certainly haven't seen anything on any scoreboard to convince me otherwise. And...

Once again, I will restate it- I believe that UNT FOOTBALL,not UNT ATHLETICS, is improving as much as we have tricked ourselves into believing.

They're improving as much as you have tricked yourself into believing? I'm guessing there's supposed to be a no or not in there somewhere.

[UNTSIG]

Yeah there was suppose to be a 'not' in there. I am pretty sure you got the point. The psychological profile was just a little playful jab. it is true though, you were trying to break down the board man! " The AC, the attendance, the preseason media coverage, and the championships are proof enough of that, regardless of how we might be performing now"...see that's the difference with me...i don't think that is proof enough. First of all the AC is related to the Athletic Department, not the football team...there goes that point. The preseason media coverage is because we have won conference championships and have national rushing leaders but we have rushing leaders and conference championships because of the crappy conference we are in, not because we are making strides in football. I agree...media coverage has increased so if you want to say that we are on track because we have received more exposure, then I would say you were right but I am talking purely football. I hope that you can find the point in this post. It's really not that hard

[Cerebus]

First of all the AC is related to the Athletic Department, not the football team...there goes that point. 

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You really think the BOR would have paid for the AC if we hadn't of won those SBC championships? I strongly disagree.

[UNTSIG]

Cerebus- again let's not go around the point. What does the athletic center have to do with us improving on the field? People keep going back to our conference championships and I AGREE that it is great we have won the Sun Belt the last few years and maybe you are right...maybe we don't get the new AC if we don't get some exposure from being the best of the bad BUT I am talking about on the field. Here it is in a nut shell I do not think that North Texas Football has improved as a FOOTBALL program that much. We are just in a worse conference. Yes the exposure has gotten better. Yes the fan base has improved. Yes we are building more facilities. BUT here is where I disagree...I do not think that any of this is related to a "better" product on the field. I think that it is related to A) A weaker conference. Our conference winning streak (which to me has more to do with- again our weaker conference rather than our football team) and C) A valant attempt to change the culture of the university by people like Dr Pohl, RV and Bonita Jacobs.....I do not think that the university or the athletic department is on the wrong track. I do however think that our football team, the one between the lines, the one that runs the ball, that tackles and throws (sometimes) has not improved as much as we have kidded ourselves to believe. I respect your opinion on here a lot and heck it's your board- you have been around North Texas for a while....do you think that our team on the field has improved dramatically over the last few years?

[calvin]

untsig,

were you around the program when we were going 2-9, 3-8, and we were playing Utah St. , NMSU, and Idaho ?