COLLEGE SPORTS BUDGETS

El Paso Eagle · November 17, 2020

Listening today and hearing more stories of financial issues in college sports due to the fallout of Covid.

Would be nice to see some of them talking about, at least in my opinion, the underlying issue -

BUDGETS AND SPENDING IN COLLEGE SPORTS HAVE GOTTEN OUT OF CONTROL

It seems more and more schools are living "check-to-check" and yet they are spending and investing more and more in order to "keep up." Football and BB have been the cash cows that have provided and now there is no money coming in for all of the non-revenue sports. I think we will see a major shift in sports coming up and most likely a larger split between the "haves" and the "have-nots." I also understand the logic behind Title-9 but how are schools going to continue funding all of these programs? Are they going to place more fees on students? What money is out there for TV will probably be focused more and more on the P5s. Something is going to have to give.

GrandGreen · November 17, 2020

3 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Listening today and hearing more stories of financial issues in college sports due to the fallout of Covid.

Would be nice to see some of them talking about, at least in my opinion, the underlying issue -

BUDGETS AND SPENDING IN COLLEGE SPORTS HAVE GOTTEN OUT OF CONTROL

It seems more and more schools are living "check-to-check" and yet they are spending and investing more and more in order to "keep up." Football and BB have been the cash cows that have provided and now there is no money coming in for all of the non-revenue sports. I think we will see a major shift in sports coming up and most likely a larger split between the "haves" and the "have-nots." I also understand the logic behind Title-9 but how are schools going to continue funding all of these programs? Are they going to place more fees on students? What money is out there for TV will probably be focused more and more on the P5s. Something is going to have to give.

Although more obvious now, this has been the case for most football programs for decades.

Title 9 is political and has never made sense because it makes no allowance for financial results and participation rates in sports. Because of the numbers needed for football, many men's sports have been eliminated and girls sports actually created.

Is there a big demand for equestrian, rowing, beach volleyball, bowling, etc.

Coaches, AD and staff are paid far too much based on any real supply and demand equation.

The problem is that no team unless they have completely run out of resources, is going to lower budgets.

There could be limits put on spending, the pros do it. However, what AD or coach is going to cut their own salary or terminate themselves. Likewise what BOR or President is going to be the one that forces their institution to drop down or stop playing football or basketball.

There are obviously many in academia that would love sports to be curtailed or done away with. However, I think it is not disputable that athletics are the number one link to alumni and regional sport fans.

El Paso Eagle · November 17, 2020

58 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

There could be limits put on spending, the pros do it. However, what AD or coach is going to cut their own salary or terminate themselves. Likewise what BOR or President is going to be the one that forces their institution to drop down or stop playing football or basketball.

At some time, and hopefully sooner than later, there is going to have to be a sanity check. The first wave might come with student fees. With many students "learning" remote and still having to pay all of the fees people are going to be taking a closer look at the cost.

Christopher Walker · November 18, 2020

2 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Although more obvious now, this has been the case for most ~~football programs~~ aspects of American life for decades.

Higher Education...

Suburban growth and sprawl...

Heightened user choice vs weakening user capacity to pay...

Finance sector...

Something something something late stage capitalism.

NorthTexasWeLove · November 18, 2020

19 hours ago, Christopher Walker said:

Higher Education...

Suburban growth and sprawl...

Heightened user choice vs weakening user capacity to pay...

Finance sector...

Something something something late stage capitalism.

tell me more the office GIF

untjim1995 · November 19, 2020

The single best thing that could happen to college athletics is to have the classifications being set by a combination of annual budget/attendance/enrollment. Texas and A&M don't need to be playing Texas State, UTSA, UTEP, or us. Tennessee doesn't need to be playing Middle Tennessee. Alabama and Auburn don't need to be playing Troy, UAB or USA. The NFL-lite programs always play at home, in their gigantic stadiums, with superior recruiting that is rated by their media. The deck is too stacked and just isn't even meant to be competitive. And the same goes for the G5s playing FCS schools.

I'll say it until I die, but the fact that 66 schools play a sport where they have no chance of ever being a national champion, even though every other single level of football does get to crown a champion, just cheats the players, coaches, and fans something fierce.

GrandGreen · November 19, 2020

57 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

The single best thing that could happen to college athletics is to have the classifications being set by a combination of annual budget/attendance/enrollment. Texas and A&M don't need to be playing Texas State, UTSA, UTEP, or us. Tennessee doesn't need to be playing Middle Tennessee. Alabama and Auburn don't need to be playing Troy, UAB or USA. The NFL-lite programs always play at home, in their gigantic stadiums, with superior recruiting that is rated by their media. The deck is too stacked and just isn't even meant to be competitive. And the same goes for the G5s playing FCS schools.

I'll say it until I die, but the fact that 66 schools play a sport where they have no chance of ever being a national champion, even though every other single level of football does get to crown a champion, just cheats the players, coaches, and fans something fierce.

I think what would cheat the NT fans is a move down in classification. Who won the D2, NAIA, or FCS championships last year? If you know any of them, you would be a rare football fan.

North Dakota St. was the FCS national champion. Area teams in the top 25 were Cen. Ark., Sam Houston St., Nicholls, and SE Louisiana. If you want NT to quickly lose most of their fans than a move down would accomplish that.

Getting stomped by UT gets more media attention than winning a FCS conference championship.

Can you even imagine what a move to something like the Southland would do to NT's other championship level sports like basketball, soccer, softball etc.?

Yes, teams like NT need to play the P5 powers occasionally, money and publicity are important and there is contrary to your belief at least a chance for a win.

untjim1995 · November 19, 2020

24 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

I think what would cheat the NT fans is a move down in classification. Who won the D2, NAIA, or FCS championships last year? If you know any of them, you would be a rare football fan.

North Dakota St. was the FCS national champion. Area teams in the top 25 were Cen. Ark., Sam Houston St., Nicholls, and SE Louisiana. If you want NT to quickly lose most of their fans than a move down would accomplish that.

Getting stomped by UT gets more media attention than winning a FCS conference championship.

Can you even imagine what a move to something like the Southland would do to NT's other championship level sports like basketball, soccer, softball etc.?

Yes, teams like NT need to play the P5 powers occasionally, money and publicity are important and there is contrary to your belief at least a chance for a win.

You and your ilk all think I’m talking about going down to FCS to play ACU, Lamar, and Nicholas State as SLC mates. It’s not. It’s taking the current G5’s that don’t have anything in common with the top 40 programs in the country from any support standpoint you want to look at and having a chance at a legitimate championship for our teams. UCF and Boise State don’t have national titles because they aren’t allowed into the club. But they would if they had their own playoff or championship game. That ain’t exactly NDSU vs James Madison...

But you think us playing UT is awesome because we get attention. Trust me, that attention is not helping us at all. Instead, it creates thousands of more t-shirt fans at UNT that will never care enough about us to be proud of our achievements.

GrandGreen · November 19, 2020

25 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

You and your ilk all think I’m talking about going down to FCS to play ACU, Lamar, and Nicholas State as SLC mates. It’s not. It’s taking the current G5’s that don’t have anything in common with the top 40 programs in the country from any support standpoint you want to look at and having a chance at a legitimate championship for our teams. UCF and Boise State don’t have national titles because they aren’t allowed into the club. But they would if they had their own playoff or championship game. That ain’t exactly NDSU vs James Madison...

But you think us playing UT is awesome because we get attention. Trust me, that attention is not helping us at all. Instead, it creates thousands of more t-shirt fans at UNT that will never care enough about us to be proud of our achievements.

Me and my ilk, are well aware of what you are advocating. Not only NT, but no G5 is going to voluntarily move down.

A move to divide D1 officially like it is denoted by the P5 or G5 designations. Plus move more of the P5 down too.

You are so misguided to think that moving NT down, no matter to what level would be a good thing. What you think is obvious would be almost the death knell IMO for UNT athletics.

You have not addressed the other sports, I assume that you believe they would also benefit from a lower competition level. Or do you perceive a dream league, were lower level football is played and other teams are still at the highest classification?

There are probably no D1 schools even ULM that would ever want to move down, because they know that many of their fans will desert them.

What a reach in your contention that playing P5 teams, leads to UNT fans switching to P5 fandom. That is nonsense.

Assume that your plan is put into effect, here is what probably would happen. NT and other demoted teams would instantly lose fans and money. The better drop-down teams would win and immediately start a drive to get back to the Division they just left.

We are debating something that is never going to happen. NT did not make all the investments in athletic facilities to move down.

El Paso Eagle · November 20, 2020

No one is advocating we drop to FCS, but at the end of the day the divide between the top budgets/conferences and the smaller budgets/conferences in FBS is probably greater in NCAA football than any other major sports grouping. Yes, it fees good to say we are a FBS school and part of the highest division on college football, but the reality is that most G5 schools are not on the same level as the P5 programs. Yes, G5 schools will beat P5 schools, but overall the money difference is wide and shows no sign of shrinking. I still believe the P5, or some percent of them will try to break away from the NCAA in the near future. While hoping for the best, I hope our administrators are are preparing for a level between the current FBS and FCS. There is already talk of having a G5 Playoff which just might be a way to see if there is interest. I think, not saying hope, that at some point we will see a more formal P5 split and the the G5 schools along with some from the FCS will be in a new classification below P5 and above FCS.