The Problem.

[FirefightnRick]

1 hour ago, KRAM1 said:

And, speaking of programs...interesting reading in the Mean Green Club section of UNT's football program this year. Check it out for names there and not there. 

 

Rick

[MeanGreenTexan]

50 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

The problem?  There's none of this when we need a yard.

 

Rick

Not enough triple option?

[Ben Gooding]

Just now, MeanGreenTexan said:

Not enough triple option?

Not enough physical football. And 0 under center football when we need a yard/inches. SL has to implement this into his system. Him not doing it is just beating his head against the wall, ignorantly. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

5 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Not enough physical football. And 0 under center football when we need a yard/inches. SL has to implement this into his system. Him not doing it is just beating his head against the wall, ignorantly. 

The first TD we scored VS SMU was based on a wrinkle in our base offense.  
Countless other teams gain short yardage out of their base shotgun offense.  UNT does too.  But to go under center for an offense that operates out of the shotgun would basically be broadcasting a run play, right?    Have to at least TRY to keep the defense honest.
How do we know Littrell (himself a Fullback, fully understanding the power run game) won't have something like this cooked up when he feels it necessary?

[UNTLifer]

3 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

The first TD we scored VS SMU was based on a wrinkle in our base offense.  
Countless other teams gain short yardage out of their base shotgun offense.  UNT does too.  But to go under center for an offense that operates out of the shotgun would basically be broadcasting a run play, right?    Have to at least TRY to keep the defense honest.
How do we know Littrell (himself a Fullback, fully understanding the power run game) won't have something like this cooked up when he feels it necessary?

Easy, you'll fall under the wrath of FFR.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Just now, UNTLifer said:

Easy, you'll fall under the wrath of FFR.

I understand the frustration.   It's old-school football.   Line up, be more physical than the other team, and get your yard or two.   Thing is, we don't have that kind of offense as our base.    Compounded further by using a triple-option team as his example just doesn't equate.  

I trust Littrell on offense, and I think he would install that wrinkle and make it work if he wanted to.

[FirefightnRick]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

 But to go under center for an offense that operates out of the shotgun would basically be broadcasting a run play, right?   

No. It wouldn't. Never seen a pass play that began from under center?

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

How do we know Littrell  won't have something like this cooked up when he feels it necessary?

His OC's history maybe?

 

Rick

Edited September 11, 2017 by FirefightnRick

[Aldo]

2 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Never seen a pass play that began from under center?

Not in this offense.

Not gonna happen y'all. Sorry bout your luck. Pistol is as close as we're gonna get to under center. 

And to point to it as an issue is not understanding how this offense works. The team has bigger issues facing it than taking one snap under center in short yardage situations. Or maybe the issue is, in fact, smaller.

 

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 minute ago, FirefightnRick said:

No. Never seen a pass play that began from under center?

 

 

 

 

Ever seen a spread team working out of the shotgun 95% of the time line up under center with a fullback and pass?
We've got some nice weapons at WR and TE.   The offense has a lot of options.  Working out of the shotgun keeps the defense honest that we may use them.
Haven't we been concerned with the OL all offseason?   Why all-of-a-sudden put confidence in them physically owning the LOS?

Old-school, smashmouth football just isn't suited well for this offense, especially with this patchwork OL.

[FirefightnRick]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Countless other teams gain short yardage out of their base shotgun offense. 

We're not like countless other teams.  

Last year at a critical point while still in the game we had a 4th and 1 from SMU's 25 or so and passed to the endzone and missed terribly, then missed the FG.

Last Saturday we failed again on another critical short yardage attempt in the same scheme that fooled no one.

All I'm asking is to try something different....for once?

 

Rick

[MeanGreenTexan]

Just now, FirefightnRick said:

We're not like countless other teams.  

Last year at a critical point while still in the game we had a 4th and 1 from SMU's 25 or so and passed to the endzone and missed terribly, then missed the FG.

Last Saturday we failed again on another critical short yardage attempt in the same scheme that fooled no one.

All I'm asking is to try something different....for once?

 

Rick

Can't defend bad play calls like that.   Harrell... still not sure about him.

[Ben Gooding]

3 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

We're not like countless other teams.  

Last year at a critical point while still in the game we had a 4th and 1 from SMU's 25 or so and passed to the endzone and missed terribly, then missed the FG.

Last Saturday we failed again on another critical short yardage attempt in the same scheme that fooled no one.

All I'm asking is to try something different....for once?

 

Rick

Also to add, on inches to goal vs UTSA we lined up in shotgun and fumbled up an exchange and 99 yards later UTSA scored. Get under center with tight splits and squeeze your little QB in between or under legs for an inch. 

[FirefightnRick]

9 minutes ago, Aldo said:

Not in this offense.

 

Then you haven't watched much football.  

Many spread teams do it.  Corky did it here years ago.  He'd go no back five wide one play, wishbone the next, then the veer the next. He pulled out everything he could to move the chains with much much less to work with like 20 fewer scholarships, while recruiting to the worst facility in the state and  I doubt the man ever earned over $120K a year.  

There's nothing in the rules that say if you run one type of offense that you cannot implement parts of another.

 And good lord it's not like we're talking about implementing some complicated offensive package here.  We're talking about quickly getting under center when they least expect it(during an audible maybe) snapping the ball and collectively driving your man like you were taught since Pee Wee football.  .

Again, all I'm asking is try something different for a change.  

Till then it's Dodge 2.0 to me..

 

Rick

[UNTFan23]

When your offensive line is struggling to create holes using a spread formation, what makes anyone believe they'll suddenly create holes for a half or full back in something like a Power I formation?

[MGNation92]

5 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Then you haven't watched much football.  

Many spread teams do it.  Corky did it here years ago.  He'd go no back five wide one play, wishbone the next, then the veer the next. He pulled out everything he could to move the chains with much much less to work with like 20 fewer scholarships, while recruiting to the worst facility in the state and  I doubt the man ever earned over $120K a year.  

There's nothing in the rules that say if you run one type of offense that you cannot implement parts of another.

 And good lord it's not like we're talking about implementing some complicated offensive package here.  We're talking about quickly getting under center when they least expect it(during an audible maybe) snapping the ball and collectively driving your man like you were taught since Pee Wee football.  .

Again, all I'm asking is try something different for a change.  

Till then it's Dodge 2.0 to me..

 

Rick

While I think it would be useful in certain cases, I believe the extra practice time needed to practice a clean exchange between a center/QB from under center would take too much quality practice time away from an offense that will take snaps out of the shotgun 99% of the time otherwise. 

I've seen it happen way too often when you try to make a center that snapped shotgun all through high school, then all through college, and couple him with a QB that has never taken a snap under center from high school to college and it end in disaster. Could be more trouble than it's worth.

[Ben Gooding]

Just now, MGNation92 said:

While I think it would be useful in certain cases, I believe the extra practice time needed to practice a clean exchange between a center/QB from under center would take too much quality practice time away from an offense that will take snaps out of the shotgun 99% of the time otherwise. 

I've seen it happen way too often when you try to make a center that snapped shotgun all through high school, then all through college, and couple him with a QB that has never taken a snap under center from high school to college and it end in disaster. Could be more trouble than it's worth.

Getting short yardage has caused plenty of trouble. I think it'd be a disaster worth risking. When a 1/2 yard is needed to score or move the chains, why take the ball back 5 yards then proceed to attempt to get 5 1/2 yards to to achieve the same goal. 

[Aldo]

10 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Many spread teams do it.

Sure. Spread teams and power spread. 

If this offensive line can't create a yard for Wilson up the middle in the shotgun, it's not going to create in under center. The O-line needs to improve. They're not getting much push.

Also, the wide offensive line splits are not designed for this. They'd get devoured.

[Ben Gooding]

4 minutes ago, Aldo said:

Sure. Spread teams and power spread. 

If this offensive line can't create a yard for Wilson up the middle in the shotgun, it's not going to create in under center. The O-line needs to improve. They're not getting much push.

Also, the wide offensive line splits are not designed for this. They'd get devoured.

You can quick snap yourself to 1st downs and touchdowns. OR we can just keep doing what's not working. That'll solve it. 
 

When I played high school ball, I played slot. We quick snapped people all the time. Ran a multiple formation offense. QB would scream, "PURPLE, PURPLE, PURPLE" and that let the O know to find your spot on the LOS and don't move because we're quick snapping the defense. We did it often, maybe 4 or 5 times a game, and it worked a ton. 

Edited September 11, 2017 by Ben Gooding

[Aldo]

1 minute ago, Ben Gooding said:

You can quick snap yourself to 1st downs and touchdowns. OR we can just keep doing what's not working. That'll solve it. 

The distance to the line of scrimmage is meaningless if you can't get to, or beyond the line of scrimmage.

[Monkeypox]

We did some great short yardage work out of the pistol vs. Lamar. I wonder what the difference is in SMU and Lamar...

[FirefightnRick]

9 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

When your offensive line is struggling to create holes using a spread formation, what makes anyone believe they'll suddenly create holes for a half or full back in something like a Power I formation?

Zone blocking out of a pass attack and power run blocking are two separate things.

I guess its a matter of effort and want-to.  It may not work.  But for sure it won't work if we never try.

 

Rick

[Ben Gooding]

2 minutes ago, Aldo said:

The distance to the line of scrimmage is meaningless if you can't get to, or beyond the line of scrimmage.

It gives the DL less time to beat our man off the ball. It does matter. It matters a lot. 

[FirefightnRick]

12 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

Could be more trouble than it's worth.

True,......I mean we could end up losing 54-32 or something like that.

 

Rick

[Aldo]

18 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

I guess its a matter of effort and want-to.  It may not work.  But for sure it won't work if we never try.

When running from the shotgun up the middle doesn't work, you run outside the tackles, switch to the screen game, the short passing game, and sprinkle some wheel routes.

And I am specifically speaking air raid here.

[Ben Gooding]

Just now, Aldo said:

When running from the shotgun up the middle doesn't work, you run outside the tackles, switch to the screen game, the short passing game, and sprinkle some wheel routes.

This just doesn't seem like a natural thing to do. On 3rd and inches or goal to go throw the ball. Run a screen? Chunk a wheel route 20 yards downfield for an inch conversion. I mean if the defense is presenting that to you, sure I guess. I don't even want them to run true run plays from center. Just QB sneaks for touchdowns and  3rd and inches conversions. 

I think we're turning into a worse version of Texas Tech with lesser athletes.