The Curious Case of Connor Means: Why UNT offered

[UNT90]

No, it's a real thing. He doesn't get to travel with the team and he isn't eligible to play in the game, but he can practice at UNT with the team. If we travel to a bowl then he wouldn't be able to practice with the team at the bowl site, but he can participate in the practices at our field. Not the bowl sponsored practices at the stadium of the bowl.

Sorry. Felt like I repeated myself a lot there.

But only after HS classes are out and only if he enrolls in the Spring, right?

[BillySee58]

But only after HS classes are out and only if he enrolls in the Spring, right?

Right. Once he finishes his school's semester he can head up to Denton and move in, and start practicing. Any practices held at our bowl site, he can't participate in.

Edit: went a little yoda on the last sentence.

Edited November 27, 2013 by BillySee58

[BillySee58]

With all due respect, we have no idea whether they will be great or not. They are HS seniors. Can anyone tell me the name of the tall kid that was gonna be our wife receiver savior a couple if years ago, but transferred or quit because he couldn't make the 2 deep? I dang sure can't remember.

Good to get a couple if nice HS receivers. Hopefully they will be good college receivers. Only time will tell.

I agree, but Stradford just wasn't a good receiver. His high school stats greatly paled in comparison to the guys we're bringing in. Look at his high school stats at the bottom.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-Tyler-Stradford-48851

His OU offer was solely based on his speed and it was a reach from the start by them. None of his other offers were any where near that caliber, and they were all based on his speed.

Not saying the guys we are bringing in are sure things, but they know how to get open and actually run routes, not just in a straight line. Leading receiver in East Texas (Goree) and leading receiver in DFW (Davis). Just have to hope they stay committed, get developed well by the coaches, and get utilized to their fullest.

[All About UNT]

I believe 90 was talking about Chaz Sampson

[BillySee58]

I believe 90 was talking about Chaz Sampson

True, but he was kind of the same deal. He just didn't produce in high school either. He was 6'4" with speed, but just wasn't a receiver.

[Mean_Green09]

How can any fans or alums from a Lone Star State D1 school ever forget how unknown commodity and (then) Texas HS recruit Drew Brees could not out of our (then) 10 (?) D1 schools to give him the time of day and how he had to shop himself to Purdue U? That story might tell many of us that we should just let em' get to campus to see what they can do with a good college QB-developing coaching staff. (Might Drew's NFL team win another Super Bowl this season)?

Schools like Boise State, Kansas State, Iowa State and North Texas will rarely (if ever) have a Top 25 natonally recruited class and will most always have to recruit kids who have the basic, natural skills that we all hope will develop at the next level.

GMG!

I watched Drew a lot in high school. He had better tools than Means. I'm not quite sure I've ever seen a QB with the arm strength and accuracy that Drew possed.

In response to him dropping the elbow. One way guys like Rivers over come that is with great release time. Phillip Rivers probably has the quickest release time in the NFL.

[UNTnewbie]

Not to mention he starts practicing with us next month.

Since Connor will be enrolling in the spring he will be able to practice with us once the fall semester ends. Probably just scout team and such, but a chance to get his feet wet nonetheless.

Did I miss where you got this information? Serious question. I'm not saying this is incorrect but my understanding and experience is anyone practicing must not only be enrolled but actually attending classes. I don't see how this is possible as I don't believe UNT has Winter Sessions like they do during the summer.

The Summer sessions are what allows our incoming freshman and early enrollees to practice before the Fall semester starts and they will not start practicing until one of the summer sessions begin and then only the players going to classes are allow to participate. This goes for anything athletics related from Weight training to actual football drills. I've known a couple of kids early enrolling at Bowl Bound D1 teams and they were not allowed to be part of the football practices but this was several years ago. Sure they can come stand on the sidelines but not actually participating on the field or in the weight room. Appreciate any official light you can shed here.

[BillySee58]

Did I miss where you got this information? Serious question. I'm not saying this is incorrect but my understanding and experience is anyone practicing must not only be enrolled but actually attending classes. I don't see how this is possible as I don't believe UNT has Winter Sessions like they do during the summer.

The Summer sessions are what allows our incoming freshman and early enrollees to practice before the Fall semester starts and they will not start practicing until one of the summer sessions begin and then only the players going to classes are allow to participate. This goes for anything athletics related from Weight training to actual football drills. I've known a couple of kids early enrolling at Bowl Bound D1 teams and they were not allowed to be part of the football practices but this was several years ago. Sure they can come stand on the sidelines but not actually participating on the field or in the weight room. Appreciate any official light you can shed here.

Honestly, I was born and lived in Tennessee for first 7 years of my life and I grew up following the vols in all sports. Here's an article from their bowl game in 2010, talking about their 2011 early enrollees participating in bowl practices.

http://www.thedailytimes.com/Sports_News/story/Vols-start-bowl-preparations-with-praise-from-Dooley-id-005878

[MeanGreenZen]

Yeah, he could've made his point without throwing DT under the bus.

Pretty sure both Smith and Vizza were more highly recruited.

Vizza was highly recruited and had four FBS offers. Means had five FBS offers. Andrew Smith was not highly recruited.

[JesseMartin]

If he ends up being a starter (and maybe a superstar), will we be the Means Greens?

[UNT90]

I believe 90 was talking about Chaz Sampson

Yes, this was the comparison.

Not that I think T or Rutherford will be Sampson, but there is just no way for the fan to know until the players see college competition.

[BillySee58]

Yes, this was the comparison.

Not that I think T or Rutherford will be Sampson, but there is just no way for the fan to know until the players see college competition.

True, I just think their production in high school is much more than anything Chaz Sampson ever did. He was a combine guy.

[UNTLifer]

Yes, this was the comparison.

Not that I think T or Rutherford will be Sampson, but there is just no way for the fan to know until the players see college competition.

That is true of every recruit regardless of position. Just look at Brelan Chancellor, a low rated 2 star WR that has been dynamic for ys since he set foot on campus. But, I also agree with Billy. Davis, Adams, Goree and Rutherford to some degree, are accomplished receivers in HS not just a physical specimen that could develop. Edited November 28, 2013 by UNTLifer

[UNT90]

True, I just think their production in high school is much more than anything Chaz Sampson ever did. He was a combine guy.

And, of course, the opposite argument is the level of competition they face, and, for that matter, any high school prospect faces.

Which is why you see guys that are 4 stars flop while guys that are lower rated succeed.

Now I am giving myself tired head. Must disengage.

[BillySee58]

And, of course, the opposite argument is the level of competition they face, and, for that matter, any high school prospect faces.

Which is why you see guys that are 4 stars flop while guys that are lower rated succeed.

Now I am giving myself tired head. Must disengage.

True also. Yup, haha I agree.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I watched Drew a lot in high school. He had better tools than Means. I'm not quite sure I've ever seen a QB with the arm strength and accuracy that Drew possed.

In response to him dropping the elbow. One way guys like Rivers over come that is with great release time. Phillip Rivers probably has the quickest release time in the NFL.

Whose To Say Who Will Ever Develop or Even Regress After Their HS Quarterback Career?

Our next door neighbor in the old home town SW of H-Town worked for Humble Oil & Refinery (then the radio sponsor of the Southwest Conference Radio Network).........anyhow, our neighbor had some Bluebonnet Bowl game tickets so he, my dad and myself would head out to the 1966 Bluebonnet Bowl game (played in Rice Stadium that year) and watch Palestine,Texas High School QB phenom Super Bill Bradley. For whatever reason, Bradley would never master the art of passing at the NCAA D1 level. (For that Bluebonnet Bowl game it would be DKR's Texas Longhorns versus Coach Johnny Vaught's Ole Miss Rebel--UT won the game 19 to 0 as I recall).

Super Bill Bradley: The experts (including a much younger Dave Campbell of Texas FB Magazine fame) had Super Bill as the next All Universe QB in the NCAA yet that afternoon in Houston it would be UT running back Chris Gilbert (Houston Spring Branch HS) and the Longhorns first ever 1,000 yard RB who would run the Ole Miss Reb's crazy all day long. Bill Bradley the next Fall would be replaced at QB by James Street and would end his UT career as a DB; a pretty doggone good one at that who would be a good DB for the Philadelphia Eagles, too.

Some of the most unsuspecting Texas HS QB talents in the last half century have many times surprised the critics along with Dave Campbell (and a cast of hundreds of recruiting experts) who got it right at times but others times got it wrong as they did with #18...... Super Bill Bradley of the Texas Longhorns.

Sometimes trying to predict who will or who won't becomes the biggest crap shoot of the highest order.

GMG!

HOW 'BOUT THOSE MEAN GREEN ? ! ? !

Edited November 28, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[SSP]

Is it off season already????

BTW- AS A REMINDER: I get what this thread is trying to say, but talking crap about our recruits is beneath some of you. Believe it or not, they and their families read this board.

[JesseMartin]

Is it off season already????

BTW- AS A REMINDER: I get what this thread is trying to say, but talking crap about our recruits is beneath some of you. Believe it or not, they and their families read this board.

Totally agree. Let's take whoever the coaches think will help the program. If they can make it at the next level, great. If not, they get an awesome education from a school that actually makes sure its athletes get the education student-athletes should always receive.

[ADLER]

About 16 years ago North Texas signed another big quarterback like this who had played at Llano High school.

If I remember correctly, he never threw a pass or even took a single snap his entire career at North Texas.

He did develop into a pretty solid linebacker though, twice being team MVP, conference MVP, and then played 6 years in the NFL with the Titans and the Jets. That former quarterback, Brad Kassell, was inducted into the North Texas Hall of Fame in 2008.

[MeanMag]

Is it off season already????

BTW- AS A REMINDER: I get what this thread is trying to say, but talking crap about our recruits is beneath some of you. Believe it or not, they and their families read this board.

Maybe I should go back and re read the original post, but I didn't see a whole lot of talking crap. Just an interesting discussion on player development, staying coachable, and that past results may not be indicative of future success. I believe there's a lot of truth to that statement. The last thing anyone wants on this board is for a family member to feel like we aren't pulling for their 17-18 year old kid. I think it was a pretty good defense of why we should be very interested in player progression. I think we have a great coaching staff and environment to allow that to happen.

[MeanGreenZen]

Is it off season already????

BTW- AS A REMINDER: I get what this thread is trying to say, but talking crap about our recruits is beneath some of you. Believe it or not, they and their families read this board.

Connor Means has been a starting QB for a Class 5A high school in Texas for two years. I am sure him and his family are used to his performance being judged by coaches, scouts, teammates, classmates, community members and football fans. If they aren't used to it, they better get ready because he just accepted a free college education in exchange for executing football plays on fall Saturdays in front of 20-something thousand fans who demand to win and be entertained.

I never talked crap about the kid, just stated that he was an average high school quarterback. Now, that is subjective, but I based that assessment on my opinion of his stats and, if I wanted to take the time, I am confident I could prove his stats are, in fact, average.

I follow UNT recruiting pretty closely, and there is no offseason in recruiting. When my schedule allows, I like to go watch UNT commits play on Friday nights. I also follow their box scores on the Internet.

Means stats were an outlier compared to other QBs getting FBS scholarship offers. I wanted to know what our coaches saw in this kid to justify allocating a scholarship to him. I know from reading this board that other UNT fans were wondering the same thing so I just shared what I discovered and my thoughts on it. To be successful, UNT has to be able to identify and develop undervalued assets. I am rooting for this kid.

[greenminer]

I think I've read "He's a scholly athlete, so he needs to get used to it." as justification for saying just about anything on this board. I'm nto sure where the line is on this, but maybe one day we'll find out.

This is a great thread, but the title won't break any records for being tact.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Still not sure of what the agenda of this thread is especially with its very noticeable title that just kind of jumps out at you. And even a Norman Vincent Peal'esque positive at the end of a post can hardly walk back the most definitive words that make up this thread's tile either.

Shall we go down the list of all of Coach Mac's so-called "average" recruits (according to some of our gurus on this board) and ask him how in the hell did we ever get to 7 (maybe 8) wins this Fall with a bowl game almost a certainty now? Some on this board already had out their search list for a UNT HFC as I recall reading a few posts on GMG.com the last 2 years--hellsbells......some still do.

You almost have to leave recruiting (and HS recruits) alone until they've been on campus for a year or 2 because so many things can happen in high school which could to turn one chicken salad sort of football season in HS into one that quickly becomes chicken caca.

Having a very bad offensive line could have made Troy Aikman look average. Seems he had that his very first year with the Cowboys when they won--was it "1" game? Can't remember how many concussions for Troy his 1'st year, either, but a great talent like Troy had was made to look "not so great" at all because of circumstances of which old #8 had nothing to do with at all.

Thread titles can be so misleading and at times can almost come off like one of those, "Hey Joe! Is it true that your're not beating your wife as badly as you used to" sort of things. You know, kind of an accidental back-handed slap in the face?

Recruiting services like Rivals and Scout can be just has hit and miss as all of us novices can be and that possibly (and maybe) most of the time with many of us. I posted about UT's Super Bill Bradley on the previous page of this thread. He is just one example of many who did not turn out at all after receiving much praise during their HS careers. Even our own former RB (then a linebacker convert'ee), ie, Blooming Grove, Texas and Dave Campbell TF annointed recruit Milton Collins who Hayden Fry received much state-wide publicity for UNT when he closed the deal on him back in the day. Drew Brees seemedly didn't have the recruiting sevices praises (or multi-stars), either, or he would have had some 'ship offers here in the Southwest from some of the top schools. Amazing how so many average players in Texas High School's get passed over to me, quite frankly.

And UTSA's QB Soza? How many recruiting services had him highly ranked with numerous stars during his senior year in HS? Anyone know?

Happy Thanksgiving To All!

Edited November 28, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[FirefightnRick]

I think I've read "He's a scholly athlete, so he needs to get used to it." as justification for saying just about anything on this board. I'm nto sure where the line is on this, but maybe one day we'll find out.

This is a great thread, but the title won't break any records for being tact.

Sorry, I disagree and think this is a shitty thread.

I hope Dejon and Connor reads it too so they can see how quickly this fanbase will turn on them after they've sacrificed their bodies trying to bring a win to this program should things not quite work out...on various levels.

All this thread is missing is another poke in the eyes of Danny Meager, Scott Hall and Riley Dodge.

Rick

[UNT90]

Sorry, I disagree and think this is a shitty thread.

I hope Dejon and Connor reads it too so they can see how quickly this fanbase will turn on them after they've sacrificed their bodies trying to bring a win to this program should things not quite work out...on various levels.

All this thread is missing is another poke in the eyes of Danny Meager, Scott Hall and Riley Dodge.

Rick

But only if they read this board and this board exclusively.

What happens here is tame compared to what kids get at other Texas universities.

I would hope they would be thankful that people cared enough to argue.

You remember Ohio's fan board earlier this year and the 5 daily posts they averaged?