Confrence USA visitied Apogee over the Weekend

[GRN-WHT]

I don't believe the money difference is going to be significant.

C-USA TV revenue was 5 mil per school and MWC revenue was 1 mil per.

I don't see the new alliance deal earning less than 1 mil per.

An extra million plus per year in the bank would be huge.

[VideoEagle]

C-USA TV revenue was 5 mil per school and MWC revenue was 1 mil per.

I don't see the new alliance deal earning less than 1 mil per.

An extra million plus per year in the bank would be huge.

If I remember right, those contracts are the "large print giveth and the small print taketh away" kind. Yes, they have large payout but there are also large fees charged for production costs that can offset large amounts of the payments. The net is much, much smaller. And of course, the leagues and the schools go out of their ways to hide these fees to the TV contracts look better.

[untjim1995]

I get your point.

I don't believe the money difference is going to be significant. CUSA with UH and SMU along with Tulsa and Rice was far more attractive.

The overall merged league isn't spell-binding, and is actually a bit puzzling considering that the remaining MWC schools rated below the Sun Belt (and remaining WAC not counting TxSt and UTSA) in the BCS standings this year.

I've got the same feeling if ASU pops out as a dark horse. Nice to be with Tulsa and USM but losing Memphis really took the shine off.

ArkSt Fan, you are a great poster and I enjoy your perspective, but there is no doubt what league would be better for the university's major athletic teams. Ask yourself who the typical ASU fan would want to watch the Red Wolves play in a conference football game--Florida Atlantic or East Carolina, Louisiana-Monroe or Fresno State, Troy or Southern Miss? How about in hoops--Western Kentucky or New Mexico? Middle Tennessee or UAB? Florida International or UNLV? I don't know about Jonesboro, AR, but in our area, in today's world, I can get people to go and watch 0-12 New Mexico come to Apogee while I couldn't get anyone to go watch us play a bowl-eligible Western Kentucky. The reason is that we have UNM fans here in Texas and people know folks connected to New Mexico, not WKU.

I know the first thing that will get brought up about playing in the Alliance is our attendance against the old Big West was bad, but that was before we had made any significant upgrades to our program, and more importantly, the Alliance won't contain all of the following schools: NMSU, Utah State, and Idaho, all of which were in the same boat as us back then. I firmly believe that playing a home game against Nevada today would get much more attendance than it did 15 years ago here. Sure, games against Marshall may not increase attendance more than a home game against Troy, but it would compard to a game against Western Kentucky, two teams from the same region of the country. I would be willing to bet that the same things would be true if ASU was able to get into the Alliance.

Its a significant step up in the conference ladder chain, long-term. Even if the WAC and SBC combine, which I bet will happen in some fashion, the TV money and name recognition of most of the conference opponents in the Alliance are still much better than the WAC/SBC will ever be. Again, maybe its different in Jonesboro, but selling Western Kentucky, South Alabama, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana-Monroe, Middle Tennessee, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, and Troy is a tough deal in this metro area. The DFW media literally couldn't care less about those schools, which filters down to the fans.

[Boomer23]

All 4 of those stadiums have one thing in common. HKS.

If I was going to hire them, I would want to see what they have done.

[Harry]

ArkSt Fan, you are a great poster and I enjoy your perspective, but there is no doubt what league would be better for the university's major athletic teams. Ask yourself who the typical ASU fan would want to watch the Red Wolves play in a conference football game--Florida Atlantic or East Carolina, Louisiana-Monroe or Fresno State, Troy or Southern Miss? How about in hoops--Western Kentucky or New Mexico? Middle Tennessee or UAB? Florida International or UNLV? I don't know about Jonesboro, AR, but in our area, in today's world, I can get people to go and watch 0-12 New Mexico come to Apogee while I couldn't get anyone to go watch us play a bowl-eligible Western Kentucky. The reason is that we have UNM fans here in Texas and people know folks connected to New Mexico, not WKU.

I know the first thing that will get brought up about playing in the Alliance is our attendance against the old Big West was bad, but that was before we had made any significant upgrades to our program, and more importantly, the Alliance won't contain all of the following schools: NMSU, Utah State, and Idaho, all of which were in the same boat as us back then. I firmly believe that playing a home game against Nevada today would get much more attendance than it did 15 years ago here. Sure, games against Marshall may not increase attendance more than a home game against Troy, but it would compard to a game against Western Kentucky, two teams from the same region of the country. I would be willing to bet that the same things would be true if ASU was able to get into the Alliance.

Its a significant step up in the conference ladder chain, long-term. Even if the WAC and SBC combine, which I bet will happen in some fashion, the TV money and name recognition of most of the conference opponents in the Alliance are still much better than the WAC/SBC will ever be. Again, maybe its different in Jonesboro, but selling Western Kentucky, South Alabama, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana-Monroe, Middle Tennessee, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, and Troy is a tough deal in this metro area. The DFW media literally couldn't care less about those schools, which filters down to the fans.

Good post. I think Arkstfan understands the benefits we have in getting Texas schools (Rice, Tulsa, UTSA) etc into a conference and supports our desire to join in that particular regard. As I've pointed out we're really the only team in the Belt that doesn't have a pairing and it hurts our ability to develop a rival.

[kalebschumann]

I partly agree, but the upside of CUSA/MWC membership is going to Houston, Rice U and Rice Stadium every other year (our Gulf Coast recruiting will be dramatically enhanced); think of going to Tulane U and New Orleans every other year (while continuing to think state of Louisiana recruiting which we've been known to do more often than not); think of re-newing a conference rivalry with Tulsa U (while we try to figure out a way of beating those 'Canes); but also think of having many (not all) CUSA/MWC schools opponent's fans showing up at Apogee Stadium on Game Day because a large number of them live and work in the North Texas Metroplex and can probably get to Apogee Stadium in less than 30-60 minutes.

The upside of joining this consortium of schools is beyond remarkable .

GMG!

To me, the geographical benefits of a new conference is worth it! I'm glad somebody else agrees on just the location aspect of it.

[island eagle]

To me, the geographical benefits of a new conference is worth it! I'm glad somebody else agrees on just the location aspect of it.

We need to be in a conference as well with a "recognized" Texas school....even if it is Rice and/or UTEP.

[Grant.UNT]

For those wondering, the events of this week involving the merger of Conference USA and the Mountain West Conference have not gone unnoticed at North Texas.

The athletic director of Tulane was in the DFW area last week touring four stadiums: TCU, American Airlines Center, the Dallas Cowboys Stadium, and Apogee Stadium. Also in the group was a representative from Conference USA.

Pykes Peek Link

Safe to say now they are interested, just have to sweat it out and hopefully before Karl Benson takes advantage of us.

maybe they were going to ask the Dallas Cowboys to join CUSA. Championnnnsssshhhiipp

[WKUYG]

C-USA TV revenue was 5 mil per school and MWC revenue was 1 mil per.

I don't see the new alliance deal earning less than 1 mil per.

An extra million plus per year in the bank would be huge.

Not even close here is the breakdown from 2010. This chart is all schools with revenues under 30 million. Actually I could only get the information on 102 BCS schools out of the 120...private schools do not have to give budget information. The money under conf/ncaa includes all monies earned by the conference.

[GRN-WHT]

Not even close here is the breakdown from 2010. This chart is all schools with revenues under 30 million. Actually I could only get the information on 102 BCS schools out of the 120...private schools do not have to give budget information. The money under conf/ncaa includes all monies earned by the conference.

Not sure what you're trying to say here...

If you're saying that C-USA schools earn less than 5 million per year in TV revenue, in 2010 that was true.

The C-USA deal with Fox was signed prior to the 2011 season.

No matter what the figures are, or how weak the new alliance might or might not be, as long as the Sun Belt brings in zero TV revenue, there is no way in my eyes to justify our existence in this conference. This is where Waters failed the schools in the conference.

This realignment stuff is mainly based on one thing- TV revenue.

Edited February 17, 2012 by GRN-WHT

[WKUYG]

Not sure what you're trying to say here...

If you're saying that C-USA schools earn less than 5 million per year in TV revenue, in 2010 that was true.

The C-USA deal with Fox was signed prior to the 2011 season.

No matter what the figures are, or how weak the new alliance might or might not be, as long as the Sun Belt brings in zero TV revenue, there is no way in my eyes to justify our existence in this conference. This is where Waters failed the schools in the conference.

This realignment stuff is mainly based on one thing- TV revenue.

What I'm getting at is CUSA did not get anywhere close to that amount of money from a TV contract and now that ALL the better teams other than S. Miss have left there is ZERO change to get as much money from a TV contract as before. No matter if they had a contract that paid each school 5 million (which is a silly unreachable figure for CUSA...that would be 60 million a year. 5 mil x 12 schools)it wouldn't be worth the paper it was written on or the ink used to sign it. Not with 4 of the marketable teams leaving.

Here's something else that will get looked at before UNT gets a invite....UNT's budget compared to the other schools in the conference. Something the UNT fans are not thinking about. How will you be able to compete when your revenue is 13 to 25 million below the other teams in the conference.

Here's the answer you will get most to that question. UNT's revenue will increase and maybe it will but will it be enough to keep up with the Jones? Probably not but money isn't everything but things like travel is something you can't avoid.

Marshall's travel expenses for 2010 was $2,544,457.00 and with UNT being placed in the east of this new conference I don't think there's a chance UNT could have a travel expense less than Marshall. In 2010 UNT'S travel expense was $1,427,041.00 or $1,117,416 less than Marshall. Then there is recruiting will UNT have to keep up with the rest of the conference or try to get by on what they spent in 2010...$132,788 lower than Marshall (towards the bottom of CUSA in this expense).

UNT is reporting for 2010

Total operating expenses of $17,105,046.00

operating revenue of $10,201,988

That's right at 7 million in the red

I didn't take the time to remove the teams that's no longer in either CUSA or MWC but this is how UNT stacks up. Maybe I'm missing something but I honestly think a lot of schools from this new conference will wake up a couple three years after they join and think....why!

A intact SBC will past this new conference with in 5 years in football

Edited February 17, 2012 by WKUYG

[Mean Green 93-98]

Our student athletic fee did not kick in until this past season.

[WKUYG]

Our student athletic fee did not kick in until this past season.

In 2010 your student fees were 49% of UNT's revenue. Which is low for the amount of students UNT has or I believe they have..25,000+? FIU has $15,635,778.00 in student fees or 71% of their revenue. So even if UNT adds 10 million in student fees that would bring your program a net of 3 million and with a 2010 Total operating expenses of 17 million that would put UNT at 20 million. Still the lowest in the conference.

I'm sure UNT will make more money on ticket sells and probably Contributions but what happens if you can't compete right off? Will the fans still show up just because of the CUSA/MWC name you are playing? Another figure to think about Coaching salaries, benefits, and bonuses paid by the university...UNT is around $3.5 million and East Carolina has a $6,467,151.00 figure (Huston was over 7 million) And then you have the behind the scene people that adds up to just about what the coaching staff makes.

Support staff/administrative salaries, benefits and bonuses paid by the university..East Carolina $6,024,778.00...UNT list $0.00 so the only thing I can think of UNT is combining coaches and Support staff/administrative salaries.

Like I said us fans really don't look at things like that..I do because I'm a stat man If UNT triples their student fees it probably leaves very little room to add anything to it in the future. Like I said earlier money doesn't mean everything (S.miss list revenues of only 20 million) but it does when most of the time.

Here's what UNT reported to the US government in 2010

Edited February 17, 2012 by WKUYG

[GrayEagle]

In 2010 your student fees were 49% of UNT's revenue. Which is low for the amount of students UNT has or I believe they have..25,000+? FIU has $15,635,778.00 in student fees or 71% of their revenue. So even if UNT adds 10 million in student fees that would bring your program a net of 3 million and with a 2010 Total operating expenses of 17 million that would put UNT at 20 million. Still the lowest in the conference.

I'm sure UNT will make more money on ticket sells and probably Contributions but what happens if you can't compete right off? Will the fans still show up just because of the CUSA/MWC name you are playing? Another figure to think about Coaching salaries, benefits, and bonuses paid by the university...UNT is around $3.5 million and East Carolina has a $6,467,151.00 figure (Huston was over 7 million) And then you have the behind the scene people that adds up to just about what the coaching staff makes.

Support staff/administrative salaries, benefits and bonuses paid by the university..East Carolina $6,024,778.00...UNT list $0.00 so the only thing I can think of UNT is combining coaches and Support staff/administrative salaries.

Like I said us fans really don't look at things like that..I do because I'm a stat man If UNT triples their student fees it probably leaves very little room to add anything to it in the future. Like I said earlier money doesn't mean everything (S.miss list revenues of only 20 million) but it does when most of the time.

Here's what UNT reported to the US government in 2010

Let's see...our ticket sales divided by total attendance equals about $6.50 per ticket. Your ticket sales seem okay. You had $1,666,379 revenue from total attendance of 72,884. That averages $22.86 per ticket.

The next year (2011) our revenue was about $6.8 million from football and an additional

$6.9 million from unallocated sources. Total athletic revenues were $22,417,616.

[Mean Green 93-98]

In 2010 your student fees were 49% of UNT's revenue. Which is low for the amount of students UNT has or I believe they have..25,000+? FIU has $15,635,778.00 in student fees or 71% of their revenue. So even if UNT adds 10 million in student fees that would bring your program a net of 3 million and with a 2010 Total operating expenses of 17 million that would put UNT at 20 million. Still the lowest in the conference.

I'm sure UNT will make more money on ticket sells and probably Contributions but what happens if you can't compete right off? Will the fans still show up just because of the CUSA/MWC name you are playing? Another figure to think about Coaching salaries, benefits, and bonuses paid by the university...UNT is around $3.5 million and East Carolina has a $6,467,151.00 figure (Huston was over 7 million) And then you have the behind the scene people that adds up to just about what the coaching staff makes.

Support staff/administrative salaries, benefits and bonuses paid by the university..East Carolina $6,024,778.00...UNT list $0.00 so the only thing I can think of UNT is combining coaches and Support staff/administrative salaries.

Like I said us fans really don't look at things like that..I do because I'm a stat man If UNT triples their student fees it probably leaves very little room to add anything to it in the future. Like I said earlier money doesn't mean everything (S.miss list revenues of only 20 million) but it does when most of the time.

Here's what UNT reported to the US government in 2010

UNT has over 36,000 students.

As for what the AD took in via student fees, it's ridiculous to look at how much came in in 2010. In 2011, UNT initiated a new dedicated student athletic fee which never existed previously.

[Eagle1855]

I'm sure UNT will make more money on ticket sells and probably Contributions but what happens if you can't compete right off? Will the fans still show up just because of the CUSA/MWC name you are playing?

I can't speak for all fans, but for me, yes. If that makes me a bad fan, oh well. I don't care a single bit about ULL, ULM, MTSU, et al. If you asked the majority of casual college football fans what division those schools were in, they'd say "D2". And they'd be wrong on several levels, but it speaks to the perception of the league.

So yeah, I'd much rather play Tulsa, Rice, and UTEP than anyone in the Sunbelt, times infinity. No offense.

And I understand the head to head records of the Sunbelt schools vs other conferences and all that, and I get that the league is improving, but literally no one outside the fans of schools that are members of this conference cares about any of that.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Eagle1855

[Stan R]

I can't speak for all fans, but for me, yes. If that makes me a bad fan, oh well. I don't care a single bit about ULL, ULM, MTSU, et al. If you asked the majority of casual college football fans what division those schools were in, they'd say "D2". And they'd be wrong on several levels, but it speaks to the perception of the league.

So yeah, I'd much rather play Tulsa, Rice, and UTEP than anyone in the Sunbelt, times infinity. No offense.

And I understand the head to head records of the Sunbelt schools vs other conferences and all that, and I get that the league is improving, but literally no one outside the fans of schools that are members of this conference cares about any of that.

Bingo, you just spoke for the 15,000+ other casual fans of UNT who are not on this website.

[WKUYG]

I can't speak for all fans, but for me, yes. If that makes me a bad fan, oh well. I don't care a single bit about ULL, ULM, MTSU, et al. If you asked the majority of casual college football fans what division those schools were in, they'd say "D2". And they'd be wrong on several levels, but it speaks to the perception of the league.

So yeah, I'd much rather play Tulsa, Rice, and UTEP than anyone in the Sunbelt, times infinity. No offense.

And I understand the head to head records of the Sunbelt schools vs other conferences and all that, and I get that the league is improving, but literally no one outside the fans of schools that are members of this conference cares about any of that.

No offense taken because most fans in Bowling Green feels the same way. WKU would still get a packed house of 25,000 if we played 1AA (yeah I know it's still not called that but it's 1AA to me)EKU or Murray but it's a struggle to get 15,000 to any SBC game. That's just the way most fans are old rivals are still old rivals and better know to the local fan. Hopefully winning will take care of that.

I don't blame UNT fans for thinking "what if" with this new conference I'm just pointing out the number side of it and honestly I don't see it as a long term conference but if WKU got a invite I would love playing S.Miss, every year and our ole conference friend UAB and hope the conference held together. Looking at it not as a "fan" I don't see how it can work over a period of time. Just like the old WAC and even BCS AQ Bigeast conferences found out....not enough NCAA bids, and not enough bowl bids, and not enough money to go around when you start spreading it around to 18-24 teams.

Edited February 17, 2012 by WKUYG