GMG members looked foolish

[PlummMeanGreen]

Let me say this...I didn't mean for my post to come across 100% negative.  I applaud a lot of the people on this board  for being GREAT Mean Green fans.  I try to attend most of the home games and support the team, but I'm probably not nearly as passionate as some of you guys.  Wearing your Mean Green jersies, standing, yelling, and cheering for the team at the game is fantastic.  It's awesome that we have some really great fans.

My post was simply to let you know my OPINION on some of the actions that I thought portrayed Mean Green fans in a negative fashion.  I think those gestures aimed at the press box and our North Texas coaches at a home game were not very respectful and should not be happening.  Feel free to tell me to "GO TO HELL" or "GET LOST" if you would like.  That won't bother me.

I would agree with all of you that the playcalling at North Texas has been suspect.  I've not been a fan of our offensive gameplan since Dickey has been our head coach.  But I think all the North Texas coaches deserve a little more respect than what has been shown.  The same gameplan that is in effect this season won many conference titles in the past!!

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catman12, I think most of us appreciate anyone who is a Mean Green fan and that being during the good, the bad and the ugly times which most alums from any era have seen. This is an opinion board and some can handle opinions and some cannot, yet those who cannot still have equal access and equal rights to express their opinons IMHO. But...........we all sorta' bleed green you might say?

Edited November 10, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

[rcade]

While some North Texas fans do not agree with the playcalling by Ramon Flanigan, he knows so much more football that any of us it's not even funny.

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North Texas has the 116th ranked offense in Division I.

There are 117 teams in Division I.

If he's some kind of football genius, as you appear to believe, why isn't any of that evident on the field?

Edited November 10, 2005 by rcade

[tonyhuntoon]

It gets pretty tiresome hearing the "he played college football he knows more than you!" Please. Speak for yourself. Read slowly, and repeat after me: Have you ever had a good teacher that was also a coach? Have you? A majority of coaches suck as teachers pure and simple. In fact, I could venture to say that some of the coaches I have run into are some of the dumbest people! I can look at many games and know that I could have done a much better job coaching it. I KNOW I COULD HAVE FOUND a way to get Cobbs and JT on the field at the same time. HANDS DOWN, I COULD FIGURE THAT ONE OUT.

I simply hate the argument that somebody didn't play at this high of a level therefore he doesn't know as much as RF.

I will tell you one more thing, even I have the sense not to go into the stands after some random fan.

[TIgreen01]

Been thinking about this since Saturday and I really think that the problem is that there needs to be a more clearly defined section of seats setup for some of the older/big $$ donors. I am a 2001 grad and have been on the alumni side for 4 seasons now....when I started sitting over there most people who wanted to "get into the games" sat on the student side--I really only moved to the alumni side b/c of the shade it provided for the sun-scorcher games that we used to play early in the year. Either way, since we started winning games we started to get more students and rabid fans showing up---and a bigger push for season ticket holders to sit only on the alumni side. So right now we've got a mixing up of the crowd. Ok, my point is this...If you go to most other schools, the very best seats in the house (our upper Section E) only go to people who make a donation over and above the cost of season tickets....RV started doing this only last year...and $250 doesn't seem to be enough to weed that section out. I'm not trying to say that big $$ == calmer, more mature fans, but there is a definite culture shock/transition going on over on the alumni side....I sit in section F at about the North 42 yd line (VERY near E) and sit around mostly people twice my age....half the time I think that we just tick these guys off b/c we stand up and cheer from time to time.

I don't know if pricing some fans into groups of seats actually works to create a separation, but I do worry about scaring off the people that sit next to my group---we need all the fans we can get....and this is what is done at ALL BCS schools and most Div I-A schools....I realize, also, that we're in a crux where we just need to get more people out to games...

Edited November 10, 2005 by TIgreen01

[Coach]

I am a coach and I am also a teacher. I put more work and time in my classes than I do the sports. It takes up the majority of my school day and the majority of my paycheck.

SOME coaches at the middle school and high school level don't give a crap about their classes, but if you are a bad teacher you are a bad coach, no way around it.

When you coach, you are teaching. If I can't teach a kid about the American Revolution, I probably can't teach a kid how to make an in call and look for the #2 reciever covering a post-rail pattern in cover 4. In both instances, you must know your content and be able to convey it in a way that is easily comprehended.

I had good teachers that were coaches, and had a large enough impact on me that I decided to follow their footsteps.

You will also be hard pressed to find a "dumb" coach nowadays because all teachers must be highly qualified, and to coach you must work for the school district. Go take the Social Studies 8-12 composite and then report back on how dumb all those coaches that passed it must be. It was the hardest test I have ever taken and I had Gill-King in A&P, so that says something. But what do I know, I'm just a dumb coach with a college degree and highly qualified in two teaching fields.

[catman12]

I don't believe that just because you played football at a higher level that Joe Blow, you know more football than Joe Blow. I say RF knows more football than any of us because that is what he has been doing for the past 15 years or so (that is only a guess). I don't think just because he was a QB at SMU, he knows more football than any of us. He has been studying the game as a coach every day for the past ??? years, and most of us casually watch football as fans. I hardly believe any casual fans know as much football as any coach that studies the game as a profession.

Anyone on this board or any other casual fan that claims to know more football than ANY Division 1 offensive coordinator is a MORON. If you claim to know more football than RF, enlighten us on your background in the game and how you know so much about football philosophy.

I'll be interested to hear from tony since he seems to know so much. And let me ask you this...there are many NFL teams with two very good running backs (Kansas City with Priest Holmes/Larry Johnson, Denver always has a few very good running backs). Since this is the case, why wouldn't Dick Vermeil/Mike Shanahan put both backs in the game together? MY POINT: Just because you have two good running backs doesn't mean it makes sense to play both on the field together!

COACH, you make some really good points!!

[pollock]

If you want to sit on the alumni side and still get rowdy, come on down to lower section C. The seats aren't that great, but we stand and get loud and have fun.

I think we've run off some older lettermen that we used to see every game, which I feel bad about, but so be it.

[untgirl04]

It was the hardest test I have ever taken and I had Gill-King in A&P, so that says something. 

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I commend you on making it out of his class alive. I had him for Forensic Biology and that was bad enough!

Btw, some of my best teachers were coaches. Both my AP Government and my AP US History teachers in high school were coaches (both are North Texas grads). In fact, I had such a high opinion of North Texas from the knowledge of those two men that I decided to investigate further.

[emmitt01]

I don't believe that just because you played football at a higher level that Joe Blow, you know more football than Joe Blow.  I say RF knows more football than any of us because that is what he has been doing for the past 15 years or so (that is only a guess).  I don't think just because he was a QB at SMU, he knows more football than any of us.  He has been studying the game as a coach every day for the past ??? years, and most of us casually watch football as fans.  I hardly believe any casual fans know as much football as any coach that studies the game as a profession.

Anyone on this board or any other casual fan that claims to know more football than ANY Division 1 offensive coordinator is a MORON.  If you claim to know more football than RF, enlighten us on your background in the game and how you know so much about football philosophy.

I'll be interested to hear from tony since he seems to know so much.  And let me ask you this...there are many NFL teams with two very good running backs (Kansas City with Priest Holmes/Larry Johnson, Denver always has a few very good running backs).  Since this is the case, why wouldn't Dick Vermeil/Mike Shanahan put both backs in the game together?  MY POINT: Just because you have two good running backs doesn't mean it makes sense to play both on the field together!

COACH,  you make some really good points!!

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Ok, genius, explain this one to me. How does a guy who has "been around football for years" not have a play in his playbook for 3rd and long? How does a guy who has "been around football for years" not land at least several recruits a year, or even in a couple of years? How does a guy who has "been around football for years" not show innovation in his offense over a 5 year period?

You can play the "he's more of an expert" game all you want. Experts, or those that claim to be so, should also exhibit a little something called expertise! Even see a chef at a 5 star restaraunt who wasn't capable of making more than what you yourself could at home? Ever see an expert plumber who just looked at your toilet and said "I wouldn't even know where to begin." By your logic I should take my car to certified mechanics who can't even change my oil...cuz they've been around and seen waaaaaaaayyyy more cars than I ever have. Give me a break!!!!

[eagle60]

RF is being hammered for his play calling and I wonder if the final choice of plays is made at the sideline? The lack of an aggressive offensive strategy may also reflect the lack of recruiting talent that just isn't there to open those holes for the runners.

Either way, coaches have to be judged by the style of offensive play and the ability to recruit the right mix of talent to make that offense work. Obviously Tulsa was able to do that. What do they have that we don't? (Let's consider that we are out hunting mountain lions with a BB gun.) Where are all the DFW area recruits going?

[NTEdgex2]

I, too, was one of those who had season tickets on the student side and was forced to move. I admit I did not want to because of all the posts about no enthusiasm on the alumni side. Come to lower section D! I must have been guided by some second sense when I chose our seats. The fans in our area have no problem with loudly showing our support for the Mean Green and I wouldn't have it any other way. Just to let you know if you didn't already, I'm one of those "older" fans, although I don't think age really has anything to do with "rowdiness." I graduated in 1974. Rowdy and rude,though, are not the same. See you at homecoming!

GMG!

Edited November 10, 2005 by NTEdgex2

[UNTFan23]

I might see about moving to section D from F, mainly cause I don't know anyone in the section, but I am in the middle of a decent crowd.

[catman12]

You can play the "he's more of an expert" game all you want. Experts, or those that claim to be so, should also exhibit a little something called expertise! Even see a chef at a 5 star restaraunt who wasn't capable of making more than what you yourself could at home? Ever see an expert plumber who just looked at your toilet and said "I wouldn't even know where to begin." By your logic I should take my car to certified mechanics who can't even change my oil...cuz they've been around and seen waaaaaaaayyyy more cars than I ever have. Give me a break!!!!

It has been my experience that most plumbers know more about plumbing than me. Most mechanics know more about cars than me. And most 5 star chefs know more about cooking than me. I don't understand where you are going with that Emmitt...

I think your post backs up my point of view. Most professionals in any field with years of experience have more knowledge on the subject that I do whether we are talking about attorneys, plumbers, chefs, engineers, or coaches.

[catman12]

In case I didn't make myself clear in prior posts...

I have not always agreed with playcalling at North Texas in the past and I didn't agree with some of the calls Saturday against Lafayette.

My point was not to say Flanigan is an offensive genious, but to say that he deserves a little more respect than having Mean Green fans try to show him up in our own stadium. I think showing up our own coaches in our own stadium is not very classy!

[emmitt01]

I don't understand where you are going with that Emmitt...

And this, my friends, is all the proof I need that this thread should never have been started.

But, since we have all wasted five minutes of our lives (that we will never get back) I will spell it out for catman. Where I was going with that was this...claiming to be an expert and showing expertise are two distinct things. You say that Flanigan has this plethora of football experience. It doesn't show. Clear enough?

Edited November 10, 2005 by emmitt01

[rcade]

Most professionals in any field with years of experience have more knowledge on the subject that I do whether we are talking about attorneys, plumbers, chefs, engineers, or coaches.

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Some of those professionals suck. How are allowed to point this out, under your theory that we should politely defer to the authority and expertise of all pros?

[Pierow 2]

And this, my friends, is all the proof I need that this thread should never have been started. 

But, since we have all wasted five minutes of our lives (that we will never get back) I will spell it out for catman.  Where I was going with that was this...claiming to be an expert and showing expertise are two distinct things.  You say that Flanigan has this plethora of football experience.  It doesn't show.  Clear enough?

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That nail was hit right on the head.

[eleazar]

And this, my friends, is all the proof I need that this thread should never have been started. 

But, since we have all wasted five minutes of our lives (that we will never get back) I will spell it out for catman.  Where I was going with that was this...claiming to be an expert and showing expertise are two distinct things.  You say that Flanigan has this plethora of football experience.  It doesn't show.  Clear enough?

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I don't think by stating: "My point was not to say Flanigan is an offensive genious, but to say that he deserves a little more respect..." is positing he has a plethora of experience or that he is an "expert". I thought it was pretty clear that he meant that RF has "more" knowledge about football than the common poster here.

RF just isn't a "5 star chef" (to use your analogy)... he's just a fry cook from mcdonalds... which would make him know more about operating commercial fryers than those who eat there.

[catman12]

bflan's comment about you all being "thin skinned weiners" hit the nail right on the head. I made a comment based on my OPINION (I even stated in my original post that it was my opinion and to take it as you wish), and this is where it has taken us.

I HAVE SAID BEFORE AND I'LL SAY IT AGAIN...I'M NOT SAYING FLANIGAN IS AN OFFENSIVE GENIOUS, BUT I THINK HE DESERVES A LITTLE RESPECT.

If he is the main problem this year, then he was the reason we went to four straight NEW ORLEANS BOWLS. It must have been all the brilliant play-calling the past four years. You can't put all the blame on him now, and refuse to give him any credit for our success the past four years. That just doesn't make any sense!

[MeanGreen61]

How do threads like this go on and on and on?

[Michael Scott]

How do threads like this go on and on and on?

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Why do you think they call it the idiot board?

[MeanGreen61]

Why do you think they call it the idiot board?

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Brilliant explanation

[tonyhuntoon]

A/ I don't need to post my resume on this site. But I do know A LOT about football.

B/ Just because RF played college football doesn't make him an expert. If I remember correctly those were some PRETTY BAD SMU teams he played with, AND I never was impressed by his skills as a college QB.

C/ My case in point about bad coach teachers: Overheard this while standing in line at the grocery store. Two 7th grade girls were talking about their English/Coach teacher. One of them stated that it was just their luck to run into a smart coach that gave them tons of homework and graded their work in a challanging manner. She then stated that why couldn't she get the normal dumb jock coach like everybody else. FROM THE MOUTHS OF CHILDREN come alot of truths don't you think?

Not all coaches are bad teachers, just most of them. However, here are some great/coach teachers that all coaches should try to emulate-Coach Mike Campbell at Lewisville High, and Mark Wimmer at The Albany Academy in Albany, New York. Two great teachers and fine examples for the children they teach every day.

[catman12]

Tony...you don't have to post your resume. But I would seriously like to know what you have done in your past that would make you think you know more about football than Flanigan. I'm not being a smartass, I would really like to know.

As I remember, Ramon Flanigan was a pretty damn good quarterback at SMU. He wasn't a Heisman winner, but he did some really nice things for a below average program.

Your point about coaches...I couldn't disagree more. I'm not saying all coaches have a high IQ, but for the most part coaches (especially at the D1 level) are pretty intelligent people. I'm sure there are probably a handful of 7th grade coaches that don't have a clue, but that isn't really even relevant for our discussion.

[KingDL1]

Other then this is beginning to be a whip, there are a 117/119 in D1A there are OCs there is the best and there is the worst, and RF is closer to the worst than the best or even the middle.

Maybe he should not be in D1A!

Or maybe it is just DD's offense and this just the parameters that DD lets RF work with.

All I know is I have never been a fan of RF's offense.