UNT in other conferences

[untbowler]

UNT needs to improve every sport. Football and Soccer are the hot sports right, then you have the Track conglomerate, but then a big drop off. B-Ball has been bad the last few years, Golf and Volleyball are up and down, Tennis has consistently finished in the lower 3rd of the conference.

If we want a look by other more "prestigious" conferences then we need to start winning Conference Titles in all sports not just Soccer and Football.

[greensteve]

Basketball vs Football the age old debate. Which is more profitable for NT...well we all know that the 24 people who are currently attending the the basketball games are certainly covering the expenses that are incurred when you turn on the lights, cool/heat the building, pay for the reps, etc.etc. Or you could have your Perrenial football champion go to far off places play the best teams in the country, get their teeth kicked in for 3 hours or so and have them foot the bill for portions of the entire atheletic budget.

Now before the roundballers jump on me I understand the economics of having our Champion Football travel to FL twice this year will strain the budget to the limits...that's a bad deal, but if works out like this it will only be everyother year. I know that the basketball team would be cheaper to travel with, of course they travel more, but it would be cheaper..Just curious if anyone has any idea how close it would be. Football while extremely expensive over the past 4 years has been I would argue profitable for NT...Exposure in the NO Bowl. Theres a paycheck...Playing OU, UT, LSU, K-STATE, ALABAMA, U ofAZ, UA, BAYLOR, these game have all paid off big...the increased attendance, while minimal, its still an increase, theres a paycheck. As for Fouts, that stadium has paid for itself 10 times over...aside from the recent additions of the lights and the field, NO and I me NO upgrades have been made.

I would agree that basketball may cost less ( I would cont to argue not by much) Football is what will make or break this atheletic program. Aside from the 2-3 Basketballl powerhouses in the nation, there are not many basketball only schools.

Football always has and always will drive the bus that ALL other sports ride on...its true at the BIG 12 schools and its true at Good Ol NT

[Gakusei]

Football while extremely expensive over the past 4 years has been I would argue profitable for NT...Exposure in the NO Bowl.  Theres a paycheck...Playing OU, UT, LSU, K-STATE, ALABAMA, U ofAZ, UA, BAYLOR, these game have all paid off big...the increased attendance, while minimal, its still an increase, theres a paycheck...I would agree that basketball may cost less ( I would cont to argue not by much) Football is what will make or break this atheletic program.  Aside from the 2-3 Basketballl powerhouses in the nation,  there are not many basketball only schools.

Football always has and always will drive the bus that ALL other sports ride on...its true at the BIG 12 schools and its true at Good Ol NT

←

So, if I'm to believe what you're saying, football drives the bus at Duke, Gonzaga, Pepperdine, Stanford, Indiana, Georgia Tech, Arizona State, Illinois, Maryland, North Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas, Marquette, Louisville, DePaul, etc etc....?

Don't get me wrong, some of those have fine football programs, but they're basketball schools. And if you think football is the money-maker for anyone but BCS schools, all I can do is laugh. CUSA is about to see a gigantic cut in their television contracts because of all the basketball losses they took in this round of realignment.

[MootPoint]

Also to allude to Baylor. They are Tax Exepmt since they are part of the church. When you have alumni that are DR's Laywers, Dentist, Nurses. You need tax shelters and what is a great shelter is to donate to your university that you work for. ie Baylor Medical. Any tax accountants to help  me out here? I may be wrong!!

←

You are mixing up tax-exemption (where the organization does not pay sales tax) and 501©(3) tax status (which allows tax deductions for people who donate to the organization). Either way, almost all colleges/universities are tax exempt. The only ones that aren't tax exempt are the for-profit ones that offer online degrees. If you make a donation to UNT, it is tax deductible.

[emmitt01]

So, if I'm to believe what you're saying, football drives the bus at Duke, Gonzaga, Pepperdine, Stanford, Indiana, Georgia Tech, Arizona State, Illinois, Maryland, North Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas, Marquette, Louisville, DePaul, etc etc....?

Don't get me wrong, some of those have fine football programs, but they're basketball schools.  And if you think football is the money-maker for anyone but BCS schools, all I can do is laugh.  CUSA is about to see a gigantic cut in their television contracts because of all the basketball losses they took in this round of realignment.

←

Gak, which of the schools you just mentioned is in the South again? And no, I don't mean south as in below the mason dixon line I mean south as in the mentality. You know, the mentality that says "football is king" and "I'd watch mediocre football before stellar basketball."

And while it's true that a great basketball program would do wonders just look around the area we're in. Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State are all pretty darn good in both football and basketball...but compare the money figures when it comes to income between the two sports. Do you honestly think that they were able to pay their coaches, build better facilities, or scour the nation recruiting with the help of anything other than football revenue. If you do then you are quite naive.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

---Donations to Baylor are no different than to us.... Both provide tax deductions... and neither BU or NT pays taxes on it. I suppose some people will consider Baylor donations the same as church donations so that increases their revenue as well.

---Basketball can be big money especially with TV revenue and tournament money. Most of those names don't have a football program or at least a money making one.

[Gakusei]

Gak, which of the schools you just mentioned is in the South again?

I guess the Mavs, Rockets, Hornets, Hawks, Heat, and Magic (well, maybe they should) should just fold it up and go home. No one watches basketball in the south. Nevermind that Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Georgia Tech, etc regularly sell-out their arenas.

And while it's true that a great basketball program would do wonders just look around the area we're in.  Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State are all pretty darn good in both football and basketball...but compare the money figures when it comes to income between the two sports.  Do you honestly think that they were able to pay their coaches, build better facilities, or scour the nation recruiting with the help of anything other than football revenue.  If you do then you are quite naive.

←

You're naive. non-BCS schools make very little to nothing on football; most lose money on football. The reason more BCS schools make money on the BCS is because it's the BCS. Isn't that common sense? Do you not realize that 80% of all money in college football goes to 5 out of 11 conferences while conferences like the Sun Belt get 3 or 4%?

I guarantee you Gonzaga makes much more money on basketball than we do on football.

Edited August 25, 2005 by Gakusei

[UNTLifer]

I guess the Mavs, Rockets, Hornets, Hawks, Heat, and Magic (well, maybe they should) should just fold it up and go home. No one watches basketball in the south. Nevermind that Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Georgia Tech, etc regularly sell-out their arenas.

There's a big difference in the pros and the colleges. Look, I'm all for a successful basketball program. Some of the best times I had as a kid were running around the Super Pit during the Blakeley years. I agree with you whole-heartedly that NT needs to put some effort into the bball program, scheduling, promotions, gameday experience, etc... to draw the fans out. I am also impressed with JJ's recruiting but I was not impressed with his coaching last year. I hope he turns it around, because he seems like a nice guy that is putting in the effort, but he has got to make better decisions during the game and prepare his team better.

[Gakusei]

There's a big difference in the pros and the colleges.  Look, I'm all for a successful basketball program.  Some of the best times I had as a kid were running around the Super Pit during the Blakeley years.  I agree with you whole-heartedly that NT needs to put some effort into the bball program, scheduling, promotions, gameday experience, etc... to draw the fans out.  I am also impressed with JJ's recruiting but I was not impressed with his coaching last year.  I hope he turns it around, because he seems like a nice guy that is putting in the effort, but he has got to make better decisions during the game and prepare his team better.

←

Well, it was simply to state that basketball in the south isn't taboo. Tulsa, Rice, UTEP, Houston, New Mexico State, Arkansas, Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, LSU, Alabama etc have all have had success in basketball at some point, and all are in the "south". Unless we have a season where we go undefeated (including teams like Texas, LSU, etc) and get an invite to a BCS bowl...which would be near impossible given our in conference schedule... I don't see NT ever being that recognized in football. Oh, or we could join the Big XII or SEC.

In basketball, however, all it takes is a good facility, good attendance, good players, and a good coach to get the name out there. I'm convinced we have the good facility and I think we're starting to get good players. Attendance is nowhere even close, although it has been rising these past couple years. The coach, I dunno. JJ has at least stopped the bleeding by getting us to around .500 these past couple years, but there's been so many games where we could've won had things been handled a bit differently, imo. We'll see what happens this year now that KD can play.

Edited August 25, 2005 by Gakusei

[PHSCoach]

As reported to the NCAA

Revenues

Men's Teams Women's Teams Total

Basketball $186,808 $32,305 $219,113

Football $1,514,116 $1,514,116

Total Revenues of all Sports, except football and basketball, combined $14,244 $15,386 $29,630

Total Revenues $1,715,168 $47,691 $1,762,859

Not allocated by gender $9,599,522

Grand Total $11,362,381

Expenses

Men's Teams Women's Teams Total

Basketball $833,027 $691,778 $1,524,805

Football $3,131,213 $3,131,213

Total Expenses of all Sports, except football and basketball, combined $382,303 $1,900,930 $2,283,233

Total Expenses $4,346,543 $2,592,708 $6,939,251

Not allocated by gender $4,386,790

Grand Total $11,326,041

[greensteve]

In basketball, however, all it takes is a good facility, good attendance, good players, and a good coach to get the name out there. I'm convinced we have the good facility and I think we're starting to get good players. Attendance is nowhere even close, although it has been rising these past couple years. The coach, I dunno. JJ has at least stopped the bleeding by getting us to around .500 these past couple years, but there's been so many games where we could've won had things been handled a bit differently, imo. We'll see what happens this year now that KD can play.

Lets see...A GOOD Facility...GOOD Attendance...GOOD Players...and a Good Coach. That sounds like what every team in every conference in every sport needs to be a GOOD TEAM. The recipe for success if officially reveiled on this very post. Thank You.

[Gakusei]

Lets see...A GOOD Facility...GOOD Attendance...GOOD Players...and a Good Coach.  That sounds like what every team in every conference in every sport needs to be a GOOD TEAM.  The recipe for success if officially reveiled on this very post.  Thank You.

←

The difference is in basketball we could get a national championship with this. In football, we might get invited to the Ft. Worth bowl.

[emmitt01]

And none of this "let's pay attention to basketball" sentiment erases the fact that there is not 1, no not even 1, basketball-centric school in the south.

We should support baskeball and give it more attention...congrats on that nobel prize Gak.

In the meantime let's not be like the NT faculty and pretend that to support one thing heavily (football in A FOOTBALL HEAVY STATE) is detrimental to the welfare of another thing (basketball).

[stebo]

All you have to do is take one look at this year's basketball schedule and you will lose interest before the first tip-off. Our biggest OOC home opponent is UT-Peanut Butter. Sure, we get a nice one thrown to us every now and then - Indiana, TCU, SMU, UT - but never in the same year and we always lose. For football, I can make the whole day out of it... come out, enjoy the outdoors, get some sun, BBQ, tailgate, watch the game.. it is an "event".. with basketball, you drive out there, freeze your ass off in the parking lot if there is any tailgating going on, and then go in to watch your team get their butts kicked. Just not any fun to me. It is nothing personal - I won't go watch the Rangers either because I don't like bad baseball either. I made it out to 4 games last season, mainly to support the Pit Crew's efforts. But for some reason those guys have a hatred for all things NT football now so I really don't feel the need to try and help them out (nor do I get the feeling that they give a damn if I help out or not, lol).

Sorry Kevin, I imagine that you will understand eventually. The beatings haven't gotten you down yet. I was a season ticket holder for 12 years (as a student and then an alumnus) before I gave up. Even had floor seats for a couple of years... Sponsored the broadcasts on the radio with my business like a good alumnus should... the works. After awhile, I just had had enough. I am sure that your time will come, too. IF we turn it around, some folks will come back (like football) - but most will be kinda like me - leery of putting their hearts into something that has traditionally gone bad eventually. So the fans to fill the Pit wll have to be new fans or alumni that have never given it a spin (and thus become bitter)... We have plenty of students and alumni to outdraw Western Kentucky and they barely averaged 4800 a game last year.

And before you guys start blaming everything on promotions and stuff... you need to look no further then Coach Jones' 2005-2006 schedule. It is TERRIBLE. That is not the kind of schedule that any athletic dept can promote. Besides, there is no money to promote it. All of te extra money needs to be used to give our coaches raises. Well deserved raises. At least with JJ we have gotten back to .500 ball. When he has 4 consecutive trips (or 1 for that matter) to the dance then we can start making people feel bad about choosing to support one over the other. Some of us are out in the real world, working jobs, and just trying to find our place in our careers and our families. When b-ball season rolls around, I need a break. I will go to a couple of games, regardless of who they are - but probably not the four that I hit last year.

By the way, one last thing; when you say your prayers tonight - please say thanks to the football team for playing LSU and K-State and for getting us our equal 1/10th share of the BCS money (finally) for this year. They are the ones that pay for the other 16 varsity sports on campus. Without football, no other sport would be able to support itself in a 1st calss way. You think that we would be building a 266 acre Athletic Village on the other side of the highway dedicated to athletics without the recent success of the football team? Even if our basketball team had been to 4 straight NCAA tourneys and won one game in the 2nd of those years - it would not have brought the money into the program from outside sources the way that football has. Heck, the video scoreboards in the Pit and the Green Seats in the Pit were paid for with football money. Football drives the bus down in Texas. Plain and simple.

[MeanGreen61]

Speaking of terrible home basketball schedules, Southern Miss (CUSA) fans aren't exactly jumpin up and down with joy either.

The complete schedule follows:

Nov. - 6, University of Calgary (exhibition); 14, Loyola University (exhibition); 17-20, Top of the World Classic at Fairbanks, Alaska (host Alaska-Fairbanks, Denver, Illinois-Chicago, Kennesaw State, Lamar, Montana State and San Diego State); 28, Samford; 30, at Arkansas;

Dec. - 3 at New Orleans; 7, at Sam Houston State; 10, South Alabama; 17, William Carey; 19, Tennessee State; 21, Bradley; 27, West Florida; 30, Spring Hill;

Jan. - 2, McNeese State; 4, at Auburn; 11, Tulane; 14, at Tulsa; 18, at Houston; 21, Memphis; 25, Rice; 28, at UAB;

Feb. - 4, at SMU; 8, UCF; 11, UTEP; 14, at Memphis; 18, UAB; 25, at Marshall

March - 1, at Tulane; 4, East Carolina

[PlummMeanGreen]

By the way, one last thing; when you say your prayers tonight - please say thanks to the football team for playing LSU and K-State and for getting us our equal 1/10th share of the BCS money (finally) for this year.

...................................................................................

Stebo (or anyone) I wonder what that 1/10'th share of BCS money could possible turn out to be this year?

PS: Harry or Cerebus, is there anyway when we reduce a post we are responding to, that it can still somehow retain its special darker shade separating it from the response post such as this one to stebo's post?

GMG!

Edited August 26, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

[Baby Arm!]

PS:  Harry or Cerebus, is there anyway when we reduce a post we are responding to, that it can still somehow retain its special darker shade separating it from the response post such as this one to stebo's post?

GMG!

←

Yeah just quote the post and then delete the portion of the text within the

brackets. Just like I did with yours.

[MeanGreen61]

Yeah just quote the post and then delete the portion of the text within the

[UNTLifer]

I don't see NT ever being that recognized in football. 

In basketball, however, all it takes is a good facility, good attendance, good players, and a good coach to get the name out there.  I'm convinced we have the good facility and I think we're starting to get good players.  Attendance is nowhere even close, although it has been rising these past couple years.  The coach, I dunno.  JJ has at least stopped the bleeding by getting us to around .500 these past couple years, but there's been so many games where we could've won had things been handled a bit differently, imo.  We'll see what happens this year now that KD can play.

←

You don't ever see NT being that recognized in football?

Cobbs: Cover of Texas Football 04

JMo and Cobbs: Front page of USA Today and front page of the USA Today sports page.

4 Straight New Orleans Bowls: True, the ratings aren't great, but the highlights hit Sports Center all night.

Cobbs and JMo feature on Fox Sports Southwest

Nice article in USA Today covering all the D1 conferences.

I agree with everything you posted about what is needed to succeed in basketball. We've got the facility and are starting to attract the players. JJ has not solidified himself, IMO, as a good coach yet, good recruiter? yes. The attendance will follow when we see some success, play good fundamental basketball and have a decent home schedule. Playing the smaller private schools in Texas and the UT-system schools is not attracting the crowds.

Promotions: Not a whole lot is done for football either. The big change in football was allowing tailgating. It then became an all day event. That's the best promotion that has been done in the last five years. I hope the Pit Crew doesn't lose the enthusiasm, because a small group of students sure made a difference last year, something the "official spirit group" doesn't seem to want to do.

[Gakusei]

You don't ever see NT being that recognized in football?

I should've stated it differently. I don't see people ever looking at NT's football in the same light that people currently look at schools like UT, USC, Nebraska, Florida State, etc. Maybe once the school hits that 42,000 mark that they keep touting we'll get some looks from some BCS conferences, but the whole idea is far-fetched to me. In basketball, you don't need to be in a power conference to get recognition, you just have to start building some good seasons to get the name out there, which seems more plausible to me.

Promotions:  Not a whole lot is done for football either.  The big change in football was allowing tailgating.  It then became an all day event.  That's the best promotion that has been done in the last five years.  I hope the Pit Crew doesn't lose the enthusiasm, because a small group of students sure made a difference last year, something the "official spirit group" doesn't seem to want to do.

←

Thanks. I don't think we'll lose enthusiasm, it's just a tougher sell this year than it was last year. We'll see what happens.

Edited August 26, 2005 by Gakusei

[PHSCoach]

When you have over 50,000 for a game then people will take notice not 15,000

[PHSCoach]

So, if I'm to believe what you're saying, football drives the bus at Duke, Gonzaga, Pepperdine, Stanford, Indiana, Georgia Tech, Arizona State, Illinois, Maryland, North Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas, Marquette, Louisville, DePaul, etc etc....?

←

Per the NCAA reports

BB income BB exp FB income FB exp

Duke 10,581.253 4,873,398 8,419,473 4,953,823

Gonzaga 1,954,297 1,302,728 0 0

Peperdine 1,611,161 1,514,698 0 0

Stanford 4,751,267 2,663,803 9,920,845 10,262,789

Indiana 11,131,837 2,994,791, 13,566,505 8,535,382

Georgia Tech 7,357,650 2,700,583 13,071,882 7,531,087

Arizona St 4,366,962 2,894,577 17,669,149 11,409,157

Football might not drive the bus put it sure helps pay for the gas

[Gakusei]

Per the NCAA reports

                      BB income    BB exp    FB  income      FB exp

Duke          10,581.253    4,873,398  8,419,473      4,953,823

Gonzaga        1,954,297    1,302,728        0                  0

Peperdine      1,611,161    1,514,698          0                  0

Stanford        4,751,267    2,663,803    9,920,845      10,262,789

Indiana        11,131,837    2,994,791,  13,566,505      8,535,382

Georgia Tech 7,357,650    2,700,583    13,071,882      7,531,087

Arizona St      4,366,962    2,894,577    17,669,149    11,409,157

Football might not drive the bus put it sure helps pay for the gas

←

Yeah, it sure does... IN BCS CONFERENCES

Reading comprehension 101.

[FirefightnRick]

We would dominate in basketball for sure. Our facility has given us quite an advantage these past 16 years.

Rick

Edited August 26, 2005 by FirefightnRick

[PHSCoach]

Gakusei

You listed the schools have some facts before making statements

Oh no you and smug don't like facts...