Texas A&M Paying UNT $1.25 Million for 2020 Game

[flyonthewall]

Yes, since we have nothing else to talk about, let us worry about how or what bus line we are taking down to college station, are we staying at the Marriott, or the Westin, or motel 6?  Who is riding in the Little Guys movers equipment truck?  What day does it leave with the uniforms?  Because if it leaves one hour too early, then our athletic director sucks.

Are we flying Southwest Airlines to our games?  American Airlines?  These are all questions that make or break the success of our athletic program.

I do know one thing, if people weren't paying for it, there would be no "whores".

Besides the fact that in most areas, it is against the law, who is to say that it is really wrong?  Service provided, money exchanged, bills paid.

Talk to Byron Gross one day, you can find him in a week in the parking lot of Apogee.  He will tell you they went down there with the intention of kicking UT's ass.  He will tell about our safety who's only job that day was to line up Eric Metcalf and knock him into next week.  He will tell you that in his mind "We kicked their ass!"  "They knew we knocked the hell of of them".

The kids line up expecting to win.  If this is not true, then how did Portland State beat the Pirate last week at -31?

 

[MeanGreenTexan]

Didn't have to be A&M.

THere is more than one fish in the sea.

Right.   But not Indiana, Houston, SMU or Army though.   Got it.

[UNT90]

Right.   But not Indiana, Houston, SMU or Army though.   Got it.

P5, not a P5, not a P5, not a P5.

Keep up.

Yes, since we have nothing else to talk about, let us worry about how or what bus line we are taking down to college station, are we staying at the Marriott, or the Westin, or motel 6?  Who is riding in the Little Guys movers equipment truck?  What day does it leave with the uniforms?  Because if it leaves one hour too early, then our athletic director sucks.

Are we flying Southwest Airlines to our games?  American Airlines?  These are all questions that make or break the success of our athletic program.

I do know one thing, if people weren't paying for it, there would be no "whores".

Besides the fact that in most areas, it is against the law, who is to say that it is really wrong?  Service provided, money exchanged, bills paid.

Talk to Byron Gross one day, you can find him in a week in the parking lot of Apogee.  He will tell you they went down there with the intention of kicking UT's ass.  He will tell about our safety who's only job that day was to line up Eric Metcalf and knock him into next week.  He will tell you that in his mind "We kicked their ass!"  "They knew we knocked the hell of of them".

The kids line up expecting to win.  If this is not true, then how did Portland State beat the Pirate last week at -31?

 

5 game home season.

Only OOC game against an FCS. 

Playing Texas in 1988 has nothing to do with 2015.

Maybe we could get human trafficked, too! That would really complete the experience! There is a reason whoring is wrong, regardless the form.

It saddens me to see this from you. It gives me very little hope of things ever changing at UNT.

[UNT15]

Are they flying or taking a bus? That makes a big difference. Are they going to need a hotel stay for the night? Do we? These are details that are not stated in the single numbers provided that give context. Not saying they didn't get a better deal, just saying that we have no idea if they did.

I'll try to explain why we're getting a worse deal in a way that might be easier to understand:

say you are a junior and will be graduating in May 2017. Company xyz recruits you and you agree to work for them for 12 months, starting in June 2017 for $71k; this is a legally binding document and you can't get out without paying a substantial buyout fee. So, you know you will be making $71k in 2 years. Not great, but not bad at all. You're feeling good.

but then, you find out someone from somewhere else (we'll say Monroe) gets a job offer to start at the same company tomorrow for $85k. Well, I don't know how you'd feel about that, but I know I'd be like "what the heck". They're making more now than me now than I will in 2 years AND by then they might be making over $90k with inflation type raises. Seems like I got a bad deal, right? 

[untjim1995]

I'll try to explain why we're getting a worse deal in a way that might be easier to understand:

say you are a junior and will be graduating in May 2017. Company xyz recruits you and you agree to work for them for 12 months, starting in June 2017 for $71k; this is a legally binding document and you can't get out without paying a substantial buyout fee. So, you know you will be making $71k in 2 years. Not great, but not bad at all. You're feeling good.

but then, you find out someone from somewhere else (we'll say Monroe) gets a job offer to start at the same company tomorrow for $85k. Well, I don't know how you'd feel about that, but I know I'd be like "what the heck". They're making more now than me now than I will in 2 years AND by then they might be making over $90k with inflation type raises. Seems like I got a bad deal, right? 

The salary estimates you are using for a job out of college seem a bit high...just trying to help you have a realistic view of what lies ahead for most folks starting at their first career job out of college.

[forevereagle]

I'll try to explain why we're getting a worse deal in a way that might be easier to understand:

say you are a junior and will be graduating in May 2017. Company xyz recruits you and you agree to work for them for 12 months, starting in June 2017 for $71k; this is a legally binding document and you can't get out without paying a substantial buyout fee. So, you know you will be making $71k in 2 years. Not great, but not bad at all. You're feeling good.

but then, you find out someone from somewhere else (we'll say Monroe) gets a job offer to start at the same company tomorrow for $85k. Well, I don't know how you'd feel about that, but I know I'd be like "what the heck". They're making more now than me now than I will in 2 years AND by then they might be making over $90k with inflation type raises. Seems like I got a bad deal, right? 

I understand simple math. I am saying that there is more to these deals than just simple math. You can't just look at the top line number and assume that it is a better deal. Let me put it to you this way. Company X gets a $400M partnership with Company Z starting in 2 years. Company Y gets a $500M partnership with Company Z starting next year. Who got the better deal? Answer: you cannot make that determination strictly from the numbers provided because there are many more terms and conditions that you don't know from the two numbers provided.

[flyonthewall]

 

It saddens me to see this from you. It gives me very little hope of things ever changing at UNT.

Yes, because people like me have done nothing to change anything around here.  Nothing at all

[UNT90]

Yes, because people like me have done nothing to change anything around here.  Nothing at all

you know exactly what I mean.

So does everyone else.

[MeanGreenTexan]

There will never be a UNT/A&M home/home series.  It doesn't matter who the AD is.

Didn't have to be A&M.

THere is more than one fish in the sea.

Right.   But not Indiana, Houston, SMU or Army though.   Got it.

P5, not a P5, not a P5, not a P5.

Keep up.

It's damn near impossible to keep up with you because guess what? As usual, the target is moving.  

Is it all about P5's now?   I thought we were talking about teams that fans want to see play @ Apogee and I mentioned that A&M will never ever play here.

So are you saying it would be better to replace both the SMU series and Army series with, say Illinois and NC State or something?  
And we shouldn't have played Houston, instead, we should have scheduled a home/home with someone like Pitt?

I bring up these fringe P5 teams, because that seems to be the consensus of who people here would like to see in a home/home.   We're not going to schedule a home/home with any P5 team in Texas or in a state that borders Texas.  It will just never happen.   Can we agree here?

I disagree with scheduling P5's as being the only way that the AD can "show he's serious".  And until anyone, yourself included, can come up with a reason why we would not need the paycheck games to balance the athletic department budget, then scheduling the lowly FCS games as a counter "easy-win" (for the thousandth time, this is McCarney's preference, not Rick's) balance for the football schedule is fine with me.  If we're scheduling a 'sure loss', we may as well schedule a 'sure win' in there too.

I have a suspicion that even if Rick were to have scheduled a home/home with some low-end P5 school, you would complain when the 5 home game schedule rolled around again... because it would... because we need the paycheck games to pay the bills.   Call it "whoring" if you must.  I agree with that sentiment actually, but where we are now, that's the way it's gotta be.

[97and03]

Come on, that shows great improvement! 

It's sad when you look at the schedules back then to now. They were tough but we actually beat a few P5 teams. Texas Tech and Oregon State being my favorites.

Uh...we played 3-4 bodybags on the road each year back then. Let's not get too far past stupid talk here.

[UNT90]

 

 

 

It's damn near impossible to keep up with you because guess what? As usual, the target is moving.  

Is it all about P5's now?   I thought we were talking about teams that fans want to see play @ Apogee and I mentioned that A&M will never ever play here.

So are you saying it would be better to replace both the SMU series and Army series with, say Illinois and NC State or something?  
And we shouldn't have played Houston, instead, we should have scheduled a home/home with someone like Pitt?

I bring up these fringe P5 teams, because that seems to be the consensus of who people here would like to see in a home/home.   We're not going to schedule a home/home with any P5 team in Texas or in a state that borders Texas.  It will just never happen.   Can we agree here?

I disagree with scheduling P5's as being the only way that the AD can "show he's serious".  And until anyone, yourself included, can come up with a reason why we would not need the paycheck games to balance the athletic department budget, then scheduling the lowly FCS games as a counter "easy-win" (for the thousandth time, this is McCarney's preference, not Rick's) balance for the football schedule is fine with me.  If we're scheduling a 'sure loss', we may as well schedule a 'sure win' in there too.

I have a suspicion that even if Rick were to have scheduled a home/home with some low-end P5 school, you would complain when the 5 home game schedule rolled around again... because it would... because we need the paycheck games to pay the bills.   Call it "whoring" if you must.  I agree with that sentiment actually, but where we are now, that's the way it's gotta be.

No, we do not agree. Baylor just played at SMU. A&M played there last year. 

Tech is extremely feasible for us, as is    Ok. St. and Arkansas. EVERY other conference mate is getting it done. 

WHY NOT NORTH TEXAS?

[MeanGreenTexan]

No, we do not agree. Baylor just played at SMU. A&M played there last year. 

Tech is extremely feasible for us, as is    Ok. St. and Arkansas. EVERY other conference mate is getting it done. 

WHY NOT NORTH TEXAS?

I think you admittedly only started caring when Dodge was hired... so you may not recall Baylor's vow to never return to Denton after their awful experience in our locker room in 2003.  Call it sour grapes after a 52-14 drubbing, but I tend to believe their AD (The same guy) when he says they're never coming back.

We had a "home/home" (or was it a 2-for-1?) with Tech in the 90's... our home game was at Texas Stadium. We beat them.  I don't think they liked that.  

OK St. would be great to get in here, but they already recruit this area so well, and they're playing TCU every other year here... and when they're not doing that, they're scheduling neutral site games VS FLSt in Arlington. There's no incentive to come back to Denton/North Texas again.

Why on earth would Arkansas do it?  They're already playing in Arlington every year.  Again, there's no incentive for them to return to Denton/North Texas.

[UNTFan23]

No, we do not agree. Baylor just played at SMU. A&M played there last year. 

Tech is extremely feasible for us, as is    Ok. St. and Arkansas. EVERY other conference mate is getting it done. 

WHY NOT NORTH TEXAS?

Arkansas will only play G5 schools in Fayetteville or Little Rock.  There's absolutely zero chance we'll ever get the Razorbacks into Apogee.  We might get lucky for a game in the Death Star (via the Jerry Jones connection) but that's about it.

[greenit]

I would rather focus on eliminating the paycheck game first and foremost.  Once that is accomplished, all the other things people are asking for is possible.  Eliminating the paycheck game will allow us to have 4 different h/h series going at any one time.  Eliminating the paycheck game allows us to have long term series like that with smoo and Army and still be able to bring in a P5 and a G5. 

The trouble is figuring out a way to eliminate that game and still fund the program.  Focus efforts on replacing the paycheck money. 

Dr. Smatresk, you mentioned that the university needs to step up if we are going to field nationally relevant teams.  This is probably the single biggest improvement/investment the university could make that would have a huge impact.  It will cost approximately $500k per year.  What say you?

 

[Mean Green 93-98]

I think you admittedly only started caring when Dodge was hired... so you may not recall Baylor's vow to never return to Denton after their awful experience in our locker room in 2003.  Call it sour grapes after a 52-14 drubbing, but I tend to believe their AD (The same guy) when he says they're never coming back.

My memory's a little short on that exact incident, but didn't that have everything to do with Fouts?

[MeanGreenTexan]

My memory's a little short on that exact incident, but didn't that have everything to do with Fouts?

Yessir.  But both of the schools retain the same Athletic Directors.   Think Rick could call up Baylor's AD with hat in hand and tell him about Apogee without being hung up on?  Maybe.   Worth a shot, for sure.   I just doubt it would happen.

I would rather focus on eliminating the paycheck game first and foremost.  Once that is accomplished, all the other things people are asking for is possible.  Eliminating the paycheck game will allow us to have 4 different h/h series going at any one time.  Eliminating the paycheck game allows us to have long term series like that with smoo and Army and still be able to bring in a P5 and a G5. 

The trouble is figuring out a way to eliminate that game and still fund the program.  Focus efforts on replacing the paycheck money. 

Dr. Smatresk, you mentioned that the university needs to step up if we are going to field nationally relevant teams.  This is probably the single biggest improvement/investment the university could make that would have a huge impact.  It will cost approximately $500k per year.  What say you?

 

And the good news (or bad news if you're impatient) is, we have about 3-4 years to iron this plan out before we need to start looking seriously at finding the last game for the 2020 schedule and filling out the 2021 & beyond schedules.

Edited September 10, 2015 by MeanGreenTexan

[untjim1995]

I would rather focus on eliminating the paycheck game first and foremost.  Once that is accomplished, all the other things people are asking for is possible.  Eliminating the paycheck game will allow us to have 4 different h/h series going at any one time.  Eliminating the paycheck game allows us to have long term series like that with smoo and Army and still be able to bring in a P5 and a G5. 

The trouble is figuring out a way to eliminate that game and still fund the program.  Focus efforts on replacing the paycheck money. 

Dr. Smatresk, you mentioned that the university needs to step up if we are going to field nationally relevant teams.  This is probably the single biggest improvement/investment the university could make that would have a huge impact.  It will cost approximately $500k per year.  What say you?

 

The bodybag game isn't ever going to go away...ever. Its free money that you can count on--and almost every G5/FCS AD knows that these bodybag games aren't going to be available too much further out when the P5s split away eventually.

The problem with our schedule is that we think bad FCS programs are worth hosting just to get a win and have 6 home games. Those FCS squads take away money from your bodybag game proceeds, don't help your team one bit for competing with other FBS schools, and if you lose, especially at our current place, just crushes you down even further in the eyes and minds of recruits.

The efforts to replace the paycheck game won't happen until the paycheck game goes away. I suspect that by 2025, the P5s will break off and those paychecks will be a thing of the past.

[Mean Green 93-98]

The bodybag game isn't ever going to go away...ever. Its free money that you can count on--and almost every G5/FCS AD knows that these bodybag games aren't going to be available too much further out when the P5s split away eventually.

The problem with our schedule is that we think bad FCS programs are worth hosting just to get a win and have 6 home games. Those FCS squads take away money from your bodybag game proceeds, don't help your team one bit for competing with other FBS schools, and if you lose, especially at our current place, just crushes you down even further in the eyes and minds of recruits.

The efforts to replace the paycheck game won't happen until the paycheck game goes away. I suspect that by 2025, the P5s will break off and those paychecks will be a thing of the past.

Old Dominion has only had football for 6 years, are about to build a new stadium, and play no bodybag games.  Zero.  http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/conf-usa/old-dominion-monarchs.php

Yes, you will note games on their schedule at North Carolina, NC State, and Virginia Tech.  But all of those are part of home-and-homes.

Could they play bodybag games?  Sure they could, but are far-sighted enough to see the growth of their program as more important than getting a handout to create dependence.

They are in a good place primarily because they sell out every game.  But they only sell out every game in a 20k stadium.  Our announced home attendance in 2013 was greater than their stadium capacity.  So there is no real reason why we have to play bodybag games, other than the fact that we have allowed ourselves to become dependent on them.

[UNT90]

Old Dominion has only had football for 6 years, are about to build a new stadium, and play no bodybag games.  Zero.  http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/conf-usa/old-dominion-monarchs.php

Yes, you will note games on their schedule at North Carolina, NC State, and Virginia Tech.  But all of those are part of home-and-homes.

Could they play bodybag games?  Sure they could, but are far-sighted enough to see the growth of their program as more important than getting a handout to create dependence.

They are in a good place primarily because they sell out every game.  But they only sell out every game in a 20k stadium.  Our announced home attendance in 2013 was greater than their stadium capacity.  So there is no real reason why we have to play bodybag games, other than the fact that we have allowed ourselves to become dependent on them.

way too many here have swallowed the RV "whoa is me" koolaid and believe we can never be more than what we are.

It's really sad.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Old Dominion has only had football for 6 years, are about to build a new stadium, and play no bodybag games.  Zero.  http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/conf-usa/old-dominion-monarchs.php

Yes, you will note games on their schedule at North Carolina, NC State, and Virginia Tech.  But all of those are part of home-and-homes.

Could they play bodybag games?  Sure they could, but are far-sighted enough to see the growth of their program as more important than getting a handout to create dependence.

They are in a good place primarily because they sell out every game.  But they only sell out every game in a 20k stadium.  Our announced home attendance in 2013 was greater than their stadium capacity.  So there is no real reason why we have to play bodybag games, other than the fact that we have allowed ourselves to become dependent on them.

We don't know the inner-workings of either program (Old Dominion or our own) to understand why ODU would not need paycheck games.  Their attendance is very impressive, although I don't think averaging 20k would be enough for UNT to do away with the paycheck games, so I would think there are other circumstances that are different between the two (like maybe ODU leadership possibly applying more budget to the Athletic department as a whole).

Your assumption could very well be true.  I think the Indiana game's attendance showed Rick (and probably UNT leadership) that we still have a ways to go, attendance-wise, before we can dump the paycheck game to keep the budget balanced the way things are.

[untjim1995]

Old Dominion has only had football for 6 years, are about to build a new stadium, and play no bodybag games.  Zero.  http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/conf-usa/old-dominion-monarchs.php

Yes, you will note games on their schedule at North Carolina, NC State, and Virginia Tech.  But all of those are part of home-and-homes.

Could they play bodybag games?  Sure they could, but are far-sighted enough to see the growth of their program as more important than getting a handout to create dependence.

They are in a good place primarily because they sell out every game.  But they only sell out every game in a 20k stadium.  Our announced home attendance in 2013 was greater than their stadium capacity.  So there is no real reason why we have to play bodybag games, other than the fact that we have allowed ourselves to become dependent on them.

Well, their athletic department does have a very nice luxury of having a good basketball program. Last season, they went 20-0 at home and averaged 7004 in home attendance. Their worst average attendance at home was in 2013-2014, when they averaged 5778. We haven't averaged even 4000 in any season in the last 30 years, if ever...

I've said this before, but a winning basketball program that actually gets 5000 or more out to games would help the entire athletic department just as much as it has at Old Dominion.

By the way, this doesn't count the fact that ODU also ahs had some really good women's teams over the years, which I would assume get more than a few hundred people to attend their home games.

[Army of Dad]

Well, their athletic department does have a very nice luxury of having a good basketball program. Last season, they went 20-0 at home and averaged 7004 in home attendance. Their worst average attendance at home was in 2013-2014, when they averaged 5778. We haven't averaged even 4000 in any season in the last 30 years, if ever...

I've said this before, but a winning basketball program that actually gets 5000 or more out to games would help the entire athletic department just as much as it has at Old Dominion.

By the way, this doesn't count the fact that ODU also ahs had some really good women's teams over the years, which I would assume get more than a few hundred people to attend their home games.

We were over 4,000 during JJ's last year (was in a Vito blog post today). We may have been over that the year before, but I don't think so (my own recollection).

[untjim1995]

We were over 4,000 during JJ's last year (was in a Vito blog post today). We may have been over that the year before, but I don't think so (my own recollection).

I stand corrected--thanks AoD!!

[Mean Green 93-98]

I've said this before, but a winning basketball program that actually gets 5000 or more out to games would help the entire athletic department just as much as it has at Old Dominion.

We were getting there.  But then 1. Benford, and 2. Sticking with Benford cut that attendance in half.  Because our A.D. would rather eat the cost of 2000 people not buying tickets each game than the cost of a buyout, that's where we are with that.

And, for further consideration, I present Arkansas State.  Mizzou offered $1.5 to $2 million to buy out the game they had scheduled in Jonesboro to move it to a neutral site (i.e., not technically a full-fledged "bodybag" game).  ASU said no.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/mizzou/arkansas-state-rejects-offer-to-move-mizzou-game-to-st/article_45665d72-d72a-5736-9df6-930957a6bd2c.html

It just seems some athletic departments have a "can do" and "will do" attitude.

[UNTexas]

Uh...we played 3-4 bodybags on the road each year back then. Let's not get too far past stupid talk here.

I'd say there is a very big difference between the teams back then and now. We actually beat a couple P5 teams then. Now, we get 15 yards passing on offense.