Is this racist or not ?

[yyz28]

Did anyone actually listen to the tape? ...the cops told him not to AFTER he had already started to. Zimmerman responded OK. The eyewitness claimed that Zimmerman was by his car when he was attacked by Martin.

...so it sounds to me like Zimmerman was being a little overzealous but when cops told him to retreat he said "OK" and did so at which point he was attacked.

Regardless, the story is tragic. One young man is dead. Another man's life is destroyed. That being said, while this case is tragic it certainly isn't unique as people of all races are killed all the time, often by people of the same color. South Chicago alone had 42 shootings resulting in 12 deaths, including a 19month old and two teenage boys over the St. Patrick's day weekend. ...but those stories aren't in the national news. This case was investigated by local authorities and deemed an accident and self defense. ...it wasn't until the Al Sharptons of the world saw an opportunity for attention for themselves that it became something anyone cared about. The false outrage over this killing is pathetic.

[Cr1028]

How are the two tied together? Is there a such thing as looking like a burglar? Was he wearing a balaclava and have a canvas sack with a big dollar sign on it over his shoulder? Did Zimmerman know that Martin had broken into school lockers?

I could care less if Martin is being portrayed as a saint or a satanist-rapist. It is entirely extemporaneous to this situation. The fact is that Zimmerman tailed this kid and then got out of his car to confront him despite the police telling him not to implicitly. If there is any self-defense argument to be made at this point it's on the side of Martin so I'll say again if Zimmerman got his ass kicked it's his own damn fault...but it doesn't justify shooting the person with whom you pecked a fight.

The fight continues.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Cr1028

[rcade]

Take a look at Martin's Twitter account

Paint's just a little different picture of Martin than the media has given you.

I read his tweets before the account was deleted. There wasn't anything in them about gang activity or violence. The only dirt in them is that he liked to smoke pot.

The stuff at your link is retweets of what other people said. Most of what he was doing on Twitter was talking to classmates and to girls.

[rcade]

Not his account. Congrats on taking the bait from Stormfront though.

No_limit_nigga was definitely his account. It went back two years, linked to his MySpace account and his friends celebrated his 17th birthday on it on the day known to be his birthday.

[UNT90]

Doesn't look like UNT90's trying to say Martin had it coming - even if for some reason he had drugs in his system. I think it still comes down to Zimmerman pursuing and engaging Martin against police advice and against neighborhood watch guidelines.

The situation doesn't really change.

Your right, I'm not syaing Martin had it coming. I'm saying what I have continued to say throughout this thread. People are making decisions on Zimmerman's actions without having all, or any, for that matter, of the facts.

You do it right here, by ASSUMING Zimmerman pursued Martin. Even if Zimmerman had followed Martin against dispatcher's (not police) advice, THAT IS NOT A CRIME. What matters is what happened whent hey contacted each other. ZImmerman says Martin asked Zimmerman if he had a problem, Zimmerman said no, and Martin punched him in the face, jumped on top of him, punched him in the face again and began to beat his head on the ground. The physical evidence apparently jives with Zimmerman's story. Trust me, Zimmerman is not smart enough to create a story in that short of a time period where all the physical evidence would match his story. That includes bullet trajectory and many other crime sceen nuances that Zimmerman's story would have had to match. But, you know, those little details are not real important to many on here.

The situation absolutely changes with the knowledge that Martin was previously in possession of burglary tools. It lends credence to Zimmerman's observation that Martin was acting suspiciously. Martin had been seen acting suspiciously on school surveillance cameras shortly before committing a criminal mischief. It's called a pattern. We are just now finding this out. Police have known this for weeks. Could it be that this angelic little baby was about to break into a vehicle?

It is pretty clear that the angelic picture painted by the media of Martin is completely inaccurate.

Like I said before. Patience.

I don't know man. If Martin was high on pot and carrying a long screwdriver.... Zimmerman probably had the right/need to tail, innate contact, and fatally wound the kid. Plus are we not better off with one less foul mouthed twitter account out there?

Sarcasm in place of facts? OK. But it still doesn't neghate the facts that are slowly coming out.

Not his account. Congrats on taking the bait from Stormfront though.

Also reported by yahoo. Fair Enough. Now, what about the Miami Herald article?

How are the two tied together? Is there a such thing as looking like a burglar? Was he wearing a balaclava and have a canvas sack with a big dollar sign on it over his shoulder? Did Zimmerman know that Martin had broken into school lockers?

I could care less if Martin is being portrayed as a saint or a satanist-rapist. It is entirely extemporaneous to this situation. The fact is that Zimmerman tailed this kid and then got out of his car to confront him despite the police telling him not to implicitly. If there is any self-defense argument to be made at this point it's on the side of Martin so I'll say again if Zimmerman got his ass kicked it's his own damn fault...but it doesn't justify shooting the person with whom you pecked a fight.

Again, you ASSUME Zimmerman tailed Martin and caused the confrontation. That has been reported as fact nowhere but in your mind. The more we come to know about Martin, it is entirely possible that he confronted Zimmerman as Zimmerman was headed back to his truck, but WE DON'T KNOW because we don't have the FACTS.

Did anyone actually listen to the tape? ...the cops told him not to AFTER he had already started to. Zimmerman responded OK. The eyewitness claimed that Zimmerman was by his car when he was attacked by Martin.

...so it sounds to me like Zimmerman was being a little overzealous but when cops told him to retreat he said "OK" and did so at which point he was attacked.

Regardless, the story is tragic. One young man is dead. Another man's life is destroyed. That being said, while this case is tragic it certainly isn't unique as people of all races are killed all the time, often by people of the same color. South Chicago alone had 42 shootings resulting in 12 deaths, including a 19month old and two teenage boys over the St. Patrick's day weekend. ...but those stories aren't in the national news. This case was investigated by local authorities and deemed an accident and self defense. ...it wasn't until the Al Sharptons of the world saw an opportunity for attention for themselves that it became something anyone cared about. The false outrage over this killing is pathetic.

People want to believe what they want to believe, and no one wants to admit they are wrong, or worse, were prejudiced against Zimmerman, which they were by the definition of the word itself.

I had not heard it reported that Zimmerman was by his vehicle when the altercation occurred. If true, it is pretty clear that Martin initiated the contact.

[Coffee and TV]

No_limit_nigga was definitely his account. It went back two years, linked to his MySpace account and his friends celebrated his 17th birthday on it on the day known to be his birthday.

I read somewheres that the pictures & twitter accounts were not his, but originated from stormfront. Perhaps I'm confusing it with something else involved in this case though.

[UNT90]

Here is the Miami Herald story

Notice how the news media continues to use pictures of a 12 year old Martin? Notice how the picture of him form the twitter account (wearing a wife beater and fake gold teeth) was not used?

Even thouh facts are slowly coming out, the spin continues. Why? It sells papers and fools the foolish.

[Coffee and TV]

Here is the Miami Herald story

Notice how the news media continues to use pictures of a 12 year old Martin? Notice how the picture of him form the twitter account (wearing a wife beater and fake gold teeth) was not used?

Even thouh facts are slowly coming out, the spin continues. Why? It sells papers and fools the foolish.

Again, why does the picture the media uses matter one bit in what happened that night?

[UNT90]

Again, why does the picture the media uses matter one bit in what happened that night?

It doesn't, except to form a perception in the public's mind of an angelical little child being gunned down by a racist neighborhood watch person.

Judging from your and many others posts in this thread, I'd say they were quite successful, wouldn't you?

[Coffee and TV]

It doesn't, except to form a perception in the public's mind of an angelical little child being gunned down by a racist neighborhood watch person.

Judging from your and many others posts in this thread, I'd say they were quite successful, wouldn't you?

Well, its obvious he was racist. That doesn't need to be painted by any media narrative. But whether Trayvon was an honor student or not, matters little when you're boiling it down to "does this incident fall under self-defense or not"? Gold-toothed wanna-be thugs are just as entitled to justice as clean cut graduate students.

[UNT90]

Well, its obvious he was racist. That doesn't need to be painted by any media narrative. But whether Trayvon was an honor student or not, matters little when you're boiling it down to "does this incident fall under self-defense or not"? Gold-toothed wanna-be thugs are just as entitled to justice as clean cut graduate students.

Right, but a neighborhood watch person who MAY have been just doing his job isn't entitled to that same justice, right? Because you perceive him as a racist, right?

Now that's good old American values right there.

[Coffee and TV]

Right, but a neighborhood watch person who MAY have been just doing his job isn't entitled to that same justice, right?

He wasn't "just doing his job". His "job" was neighborhood watch, not neighborhood bully, or neighborhood security.

Because you perceive him as a racist, right?

Its as clear as mud on the 9-1-1 tapes.

Now that's good old American values right there.

So is perceiving a black kid minding his own business to be some sort of criminal, pursuing him, getting your ass kicked and then using that as justification to shoot him dead.

AND CROWD THY GOOD WITH BROTHERHOOD, FROM SEA TO SHINING SEA!!

[UNT90]

He wasn't "just doing his job". His "job" was neighborhood watch, not neighborhood bully, or neighborhood security.

Its as clear as mud on the 9-1-1 tapes.

So is perceiving a black kid minding his own business to be some sort of criminal, pursuing him, getting your ass kicked and then using that as justification to shoot him dead.

AND CROWD THY GOOD WITH BROTHERHOOD, FROM SEA TO SHINING SEA!!

So much ASSUMPTION in this post, it isn't even funny. What you want isn't any version of justice that this country was ever founded upon. You want revenge, plain and simple. Revenge for a wrong you PERCEIVE happened without having any of the facts, and ignoring them when they start to come out, relying on ASSUMPTIONS to negate FACTS.

I'll ask you the same question I asked rcade. If the 3rd review of an alreeady thoroughly scrutinized investigation concludes that no charges will be pursued on Zimmerman, will you admit that you were wrong? Will you accept the findings?

Or should we go burn some S%!+ down?

[Coffee and TV]

So much ASSUMPTION in this post, it isn't even funny. What you want isn't any version of justice that this country was ever founded upon. You want revenge, plain and simple. Revenge for a wrong you PERCEIVE happened without having any of the facts, and ignoring them when they start to come out, relying on ASSUMPTIONS to negate FACTS.

I'm so glad I have you around to explain to me what I'm feeling and what I'm thinking. God bless you Dr. Freud.

I'll ask you the same question I asked rcade. If the 3rd review of an alreeady thoroughly scrutinized investigation concludes that no charges will be pursued on Zimmerman, will you admit that you were wrong? Will you accept the findings?

The original investigations weren't very thorough, actually. I'll accept it in as much as that's the findings, but with the assumption that not all the questions are answered because the only other true witness is dead. I "accept" that OJ was found not guilty, I don't accept that he didn't kill his ex-wife.

Or should we go burn some S%!+ down?

Once again, instead of doing anything to strengthen your argument you try to patronize mine.

[rcade]

You do it right here, by ASSUMING Zimmerman pursued Martin.

OPERATOR: He's running. Which way is he running?

ZIMMERMAN: Down towards the other entrance of the neighborhood. Fucking [unintelligible]

OPERATOR: Are you following him?

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah.

Zimmerman told the operator he was pursuing Martin.

But, you know, those little details are not real important to many on here.

Are details important to you? You keep getting them wrong.

I had not heard it reported that Zimmerman was by his vehicle when the altercation occurred. If true, it is pretty clear that Martin initiated the contact.

Here's a video of Trayvon's dad retracing his final steps to the spot where he died:

http://video.msnbc.m...nation/46828740

He was on a sidewalk between two rows of townhouses 70 yards from home, not by a road.

Edited March 27, 2012 by rcade

[rcade]

I read somewheres that the pictures & twitter accounts were not his, but originated from stormfront. Perhaps I'm confusing it with something else involved in this case though.

There was a photo circulated by Stormfront of a black teen flipping off the camera they said was Trayvon. But it wasn't him. Several online sites spread it, unfortunately, before realizing the error.

That's separate from other photos that have emerged from his social networking accounts.

[Coffee and TV]

There was a photo circulated by Stormfront of a black teen flipping off the camera they said was Trayvon. But it wasn't him. Several online sites spread it, unfortunately, before realizing the error.

That's separate from other photos that have emerged from his social networking accounts.

That was it.

HEY LOOK UNT90 I JUST ADMITTED MY MISTAKE!

[rcade]

I'm so glad I have you around to explain to me what I'm feeling and what I'm thinking. God bless you Dr. Freud.

When UNT90 can't argue the facts, he reads your mind to tell you how you are feeling. Cool, innit?

[UNT90]

OPERATOR: He's running. Which way is he running?

ZIMMERMAN: Down towards the other entrance of the neighborhood. Fucking [unintelligible]

OPERATOR: Are you following him?

ZIMMERMAN: Yeah.

Zimmerman told the operator he was pursuing Martin.

Are details important to you? You keep getting them wrong.

Here's a video of Trayvon's dad retracing his final steps to the spot where he died:

http://video.msnbc.m...nation/46828740

He was on a sidewalk between two rows of townhouses 70 yards from home, not by a road.

You conveinantly ignore the very next statement from Zimmerman, which was "I don't see him anymore."

And, if what Y said earlier is true, and Zimmerman was attacked in close proximity to his vehicle, then that could indicte Martin was the aggressor.

You guys can bash me all you want, but all I have done is call for patience and pointed put some potential problems with not knowing all the facts.

You guys were the ones who had, and still have, Zimmerman tried and convicted without knowing any of the facts, in essence, PREJUDGING Zimmerman because of your own personal prejudices.

Like it or not.

Edited March 27, 2012 by UNT90

[UNT90]

When UNT90 can't argue the facts, he reads your mind to tell you how you are feeling. Cool, innit?

So funny coming from someone who uses AS/SUMPTIONS to try and convict a man who MAY be guilty of nothing.

[forevereagle]

So funny coming from someone who uses AS/SUMPTIONS to try and convict a man who MAY be guilty of nothing.

I believe that he has admitted guilt in killing Martin. Whether he deserves punishment for that is what is at issue.

[gksmith]

I believe that he has admitted guilt in killing Martin. Whether he deserves punishment for that is what is at issue.

Is there a link to that admission? That is differenet news than what has been reported the last few weeks.

From what I have heard, Zimmerman basically "stalked" the kid. Didn't Zimmerman continue following him after a 911 operator told him to stop? Maybe I don't understand enough about the Florida "Stand Your Ground" law but this sounds like cold blooded murder.

[UNT90]

I believe that he has admitted guilt in killing Martin. Whether he deserves punishment for that is what is at issue.

No, he most certainly admitted shooting Martin. If the shooting was in self defense, as Zimmerman claims, then he is not guilty of anything, and the shooting is justified.

You seem to indicate a presumption of guilt, which isn't the case.

[Coffee and TV]

No, he most certainly admitted shooting Martin. If the shooting was in self defense, as Zimmerman claims, then he is not guilty of anything, and the shooting is justified.

You seem to indicate a presumption of guilt, which isn't the case.

You can still feel guilty without feeling like you did something wrong. They're not mutually exclusive terms. If a supervisor fires an otherwise superior employee for minor theft, or a white lie, they might feel guilty for doing it even though they can justify their actions.

EDIT: A friend of Zimmerman claimed that he cried for days about taking Martin's life, but the issue at hand isn't whether or not he felt guilty, rather whether he's guilty of a crime.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Coffee and TV

[UNT90]

You can still feel guilty without feeling like you did something wrong. They're not mutually exclusive terms. If a supervisor fires an otherwise superior employee for minor theft, or a white lie, they might feel guilty for doing it even though they can justify their actions.

EDIT: A friend of Zimmerman claimed that he cried for days about taking Martin's life, but the issue at hand isn't whether or not he felt guilty, rather whether he's guilty of a crime.

Lookie there. We agree. I would be worried if Zimmerman didn't have remorse about taking a human life, even if he felt fhat was what he had to do under the circumstances, but I was referring to the legal definition of guilt