Nt/texas State Thread On Mwc Board

[badgerwolf]

Hey Guys -- There is a question on the MWC Board about NT.

http://www.mwcboard.com/www/forums/index.php?showtopic=10909

Go SBC !!!!!

[SilverEagle]

80% commuter?!?! What a moron.

[DeepGreen]

And the first "conference shuffle" post appears!

[Eagle1855]

If you think our athletic budget is small-time, take a look at Texas State's... I think it's about half of ours. Im not sure ours is where it needs to be for a competitive move to the MWC. IMO, we still need a baseball team and continued success in basketball to enter into any of these conference shuffle debates.

[yyz28]

SBC is getting better every year... let's ride this deal for a while... Stability and yearly dominance of this conference (which I think is a year or two away), visable OCC wins and a new stadium which is closer than many believe are the things we need to do in order to move this program forward. With success in football and continued success in Basketball, new programs (maybe this baseball thing everyone is clammering for) can be funded and pushed.

No Conf. move right now. Stay the course... Dance with who 'brung us for the time being and be a good member of THIS conference. That's how we attract bigger conferences.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

SBC is getting better every year... let's ride this deal for a while... Stability and yearly dominance of this conference (which I think is a year or two away), visable OCC wins and a new stadium which is closer than many believe are the things we need to do in order to move this program forward. With success in football and continued success in Basketball, new programs (maybe this baseball thing everyone is clammering for) can be funded and pushed.

No Conf. move right now. Stay the course... Dance with who 'brung us for the time being and be a good member of THIS conference. That's how we attract bigger conferences.

I agree that we should always strive to be the best member that we can be of whatever conference we are in. But, in its history, North Texas has been guilty of staying the course all too often. That does not mean that we should be trying to leave immediately; only that we should explore other possibilities.

The Sun Belt is an improving conference but it's still at the bottom of Division 1A. In a year or two it could easily surpass the MAC in both attendance and average power ratings. It also is not the most stable in terms of continued existence. Florida International won't make the attendance requirement this year and is doubtful of making it next year either. Florida Atlantic didn't make it last year but will this year, thanks to hosting South Florida in a sellout game. But, they also drew less than 11,000 hosting Minnesota. ULM will struggle with attendance once their agreement with Arkansas comes to an end. With a few exceptions, the SBC teams don't draw that well against each other. Unlike the MAC, the Belt doesn't have enough teams to survive if two lose their status due to low attendance.

We are building our donor and fan base but right now most of what we have to offer is potential. Still, if we had an opportunity to join the MWC (or even CUSA or the WAC) it would help build the fan base and the donations more quickly than staying in the Sun Belt.

I hope that we are diligent in our pursuit to improve our lot but not to the detriment of the conference where we currently reside.

[filmerj]

I agree with the need to move out of the confrence, it is the only way I see more donors coming in, if we play more recognizable teams and teams that already have a name, more crowds will be at the game. I do think we should stay a while.

I wish I could be a huge donor, but becuase I am fairley recent graduate...I am still paying off college loans, so money is still tight. but once I am done, the athletic dept and film department will be receiving money from me... I am sure most of our fan base is in this very same position.

Edited November 29, 2007 by filmerj

[yyz28]

That does not mean that we should be trying to leave immediately; only that we should explore other possibilities.

I agree with this 100%, but I don't think we have any offers that would make us want to jump ship at this time. WAC isn't a viable option for the billions of reasons discussed. MWC has many of the same issues the WAC would have for us... ...I'm not saying don't look, but we need to be smart and pick the RIGHT move, not just any move.

[NT80]

Most of those posters are clueless...

[forevereagle]

Most of those posters are clueless...

Especially that EvilVodka guy. Tell me, how can vodka be evil? And SMU is serious about football?

[UNTflyer]

80% commuters? Do some reasearch...

And even if it were true, what does that have to do with football??

Edited November 28, 2007 by UNTflyer

[PlummMeanGreen]

I agree that we should always strive to be the best member that we can be of whatever conference we are in. But, in its history, North Texas has been guilty of staying the course all too often. That does not mean that we should be trying to leave immediately; only that we should explore other possibilities.

The Sun Belt is an improving conference but it's still at the bottom of Division 1A. In a year or two it could easily surpass the MAC in both attendance and average power ratings. It also is not the most stable in terms of continued existence. Florida International won't make the attendance requirement this year and is doubtful of making it next year either. Florida Atlantic didn't make it last year but will this year, thanks to hosting South Florida in a sellout game. But, they also drew less than 11,000 hosting Minnesota. ULM will struggle with attendance once their agreement with Arkansas comes to an end. With a few exceptions, the SBC teams don't draw that well against each other. Unlike the MAC, the Belt doesn't have enough teams to survive if two lose their status due to low attendance.

We are building our donor and fan base but right now most of what we have to offer is potential. Still, if we had an opportunity to join the MWC (or even CUSA or the WAC) it would help build the fan base and the donations more quickly than staying in the Sun Belt.

I hope that we are diligent in our pursuit to improve our lot but not to the detriment of the conference where we currently reside.

A truer post of wisdom from one of our wisest Older Gun Alums has yet to be posted...

I will add (since yall would expect me to anyhow) that a new football stadium out at our Mean Green Village (IMHO) would be more sell-able as a WAC, MWC or CUSA member than the one we're in (which has not inspired anyone at this point to shell out the Big Bucks).

Bless Wright Water's heart, because he has really done so darn much to get the SBC football portion started and a bowl game to boot in what is considered one of of America's mystique cities, but down the road if as GrayEagleOne has posted concerning the un-stableness of our league and "IF" any of what he posted about some SBC members not cutting the mustard just happens to come to fruition, the only schools we could get to come in and take their place are just more spares that UNT (believe me) does not (and should not) want an association, ie, whether name wise and what Dr. Gretchen B. will have to look at--academic-wise as well.

Sorry to all you Western Kentuckians, but North Texas does have a much more impressive NCAA D1 and D1-A football legacy than your upstart outfit could only dream of having at this stage of your game and that starts back with our integrating the Lone Star State in the mid 1950's with the great Abner Haynes, Leon King, etc, etc, and FWIW...they didn't have too bad of teams, either, since one of their teams went to the Sun Bowl. (And once again, a hearty congrats to many of our's friend Abner Haynes for being elected into the Texas Sports Hall of Fame--truth be known, he should have been in its inaugural class.

I agree, Jack, UNT should NOT make a shoot from the hip decision on any league we might consider and (of course) I never posted that we should, but we should always keep an open mind and not stay the course of something that may not be in our best interest in the next few years.

GMG!

.................................................................]

PS: I do think La Tech has somehow made the WAC work even with its much lower than UNT budget and (perhaps) sending their minor sports men & women's teams out for a one week trip out west (maybe 2 or 3 times each semester) to take in 3 different WAC schools each of those weeks for athletic matchups has probably helped the Bulldogs tremendously budget-wise. After all, where there's a "will"-- there is a way.

I do wish Dwayne of Minden of La Tech's message board Bulldogs, Barks & Bytes would visit GMG.com and give us his La Tech in the WAC take at the moment because he was not for it in the beginning for the Bulldogs--but I'd bet he's changed his mind with the present lay of the NCAA D1-A landscape like I predict many on this board would most likely eventually change their minds if UNT (in deed) went WAC'ward.

Edited November 28, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[PlummMeanGreen]

80% commuter?!?! What a moron.

You think if some of these MWC folks knew that UNT has twice the combined enrollments of SMU and TCU living on or near our campus might change a few minds if all this, uh, "commuter school" tommyrot is such a big stumblingblock? Might they want to also know that UNT has the largest residential campus this side of UT-Austin? Probably wouldn't really be of interest to them, now would it. They probably just want to keep on believing that 80% of our students commute! LOL!

Yet it sounds to me like some Texas-based ex SWC school(s) have been spreading more false propoganda about UNT (once again). What the hell, though, ain't we sorta' used to all that by now anyhow?

I would not want any MWC official to visit our campus until our new football palace is completed out at the Mean Green Village and that new football palace coupled with the (amazingly still ageless Super Pit) would catch a few MWC offial's eyes fairly quickly I'd wager.

The only thing is that I don't think the MWC is really going to be serious about expanding anytime soon, but some of us also said the Southwest Conference would never break up, either, with all this conference talk which is really much more fun than what shade of green we need to use or how should we combine "N T" on a baseball cap or UNT brandings, in general.

Edited November 28, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[DallasGreen]

A truer post of wisdom from one of our wisest Older Gun Alums has yet to be posted...

I will add (since yall would expect me to anyhow) that a new football stadium out at our Mean Green Village (IMHO) would be more sell-able as a WAC, MWC or CUSA member than the one we're in (which has not inspired anyone at this point to shell out the Big Bucks).

Bless Wright Water's heart, because he has really done so darn much to get the SBC football portion started and a bowl game to boot in what is considered one of of America's mystique cities, but down the road if as GrayEagleOne has posted concerning the un-stableness of our league and "IF" any of what he posted about some SBC members not cutting the mustard just happens to come to fruition, the only schools we could get to come in and take their place are just more spares that UNT (believe me) does not (and should not) want an association, ie, whether name wise and what Dr. Gretchen B. will have to look at--academic-wise as well.

Sorry to all you Western Kentuckians, but North Texas does have a much more impressive NCAA D1 and D1-A football legacy than your upstart outfit could only dream of having at this stage of your game and that starts back with our integrating the Lone Star State in the mid 1950's with the great Abner Haynes, Leon King, etc, etc, and FWIW...they didn't have too bad of teams, either, since one of their teams went to the Sun Bowl. (And once again, a hearty congrats to many of our's friend Abner Haynes for being elected into the Texas Sports Hall of Fame--truth be known, he should have been in its inaugural class.

I agree, Jack, UNT should NOT make a shoot from the hip decision on any league we might consider and (of course) I never posted that we should, but we should always keep an open mind and not stay the course of something that may not be in our best interest in the next few years.

GMG!

.................................................................]

PS: I do think La Tech has somehow made the WAC work even with its much lower than UNT budget and (perhaps) sending their minor sports men & women's teams out for a one week trip out west (maybe 2 or 3 times each semester) to take in 3 different WAC schools each of those weeks for athletic matchups has probably helped the Bulldogs tremendously budget-wise. After all, where there's a "will"-- there is a way.

I do wish Dwayne of Minden of La Tech's message board Bulldogs, Barks & Bytes would visit GMG.com and give us his La Tech in the WAC take at the moment because he was not for it in the beginning for the Bulldogs--but I'd bet he's changed his mind with the present lay of the NCAA D1-A landscape like I predict many on this board would most likely eventually change their minds if UNT (in deed) went WAC'ward.

JUST SAY "NO" TO WAC!!!

[Guest JohnDenver]

80% commuters? Do some reasearch...

And even if it were true, what does that have to do with football??

If they are going by "off campus" students.. then every university that isn't private is a commuter school.

I never lived on campus at UNT. I always lived in a house .25 miles away though. Guess I commuted (by that moron's description).

I but UT-Austin has around the same numbers.

[CMJ]

Don't be preaching "legacy" to Western Kentucky Plumm. They have more history in basketball than we have in all our sports(minus Men's golf) combined.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

If you use the standard that everyone who doesn't live on campus is a commuter then the University of Texas is mare of a commuter school than we are because a smaller percentage of the student body actually live on campus.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Don't be preaching "legacy" to Western Kentucky Plumm. They have more history in basketball than we have in all our sports(minus Men's golf) combined.

Read, read, read....

I said, uh, football.

[cdizzle86]

Read, read, read....

I said, uh, football.

And if you didn't catch it the first time he said, then you maybe you can the second and third time.

[PlummMeanGreen]

And if you didn't catch it the first time he said, then you maybe you can the second and third time.

My dial up has been acting up lately, so I guess I hit something too many times as it was shutting down?

Still..

.......football?

[CMJ]

Read, read, read....

I said, uh, football.

You first said NCAA D1 - which could've been all sports - since only football ever seperated Division 1 into two divisions. Then you said D1A football. Obviously it could be read that you were admonishing them on our superiority in all things could it not?

That said, since you weren't, I still would not seek to ruffle WKU any more than necessary. We have about a 25 year frame between Odus Mitchell, the MVC, and Hayden Fry that we puff out our chests about. We aren't some sports factory. Yet.

[good_ken]

The posts on that board has some factual inaccruacies (as have been pointed out in this thread).

However, the stereotypes / urban legends come from somewhere. And I think quite a bit has come form UNT itself. And it is going to take some time, or some rapid sucess, to change the mindsets of quite a lot of people (commuter school, comitment to athletics, etc).

And before yall jump all over me and say that RV and TD are comitted to turning this thing around; there are still many other holes in the comitment of UNT (students and alumni). I shall post the following example:

Size Rank School Endowment

1 UT 5.54 Billion

2 TAMU 5.56 Bilion

3 Houston 455 Million

4 UNT 62 Million

Which of these things is not like the others?

We still have a long way to go.

[PlummMeanGreen]

You first said NCAA D1 - which could've been all sports - since only football ever seperated Division 1 into two divisions. Then you said D1A football. Obviously it could be read that you were admonishing them on our superiority in all things could it not?

That said, since you weren't, I still would not seek to ruffle WKU any more than necessary. We have about a 25 year frame between Odus Mitchell, the MVC, and Hayden Fry that we puff out our chests about. We aren't some sports factory. Yet.

Well, inasmuch as this is the football thread section of GMG.com I suppose when talking about WKU it was about football. And since football is my passion, I would think you would know that I would be talking about football so I didn't feel the need to disect every little part of the post as not to confuse.

In fact, the majority of things posted on here by me is (still) mostly about.....football (since it would probably be moved if it were about basketball, right? Oh, well, every once in awhile I do backslide and talk MG basketball but mostly in praise of Johnny Jones.

But get ready, CMJ, I'm coming on over to the basketball section of GMG.com to begin my own disecting on each and every one of all your basketball posts (and will watch for mis-spelled words and grammatical errors)............. so get ready now, ya' hear?

Come on now, be serious with me, who has you stalking each and everyone of my posts of late (which seemed to really start when my WAC talk began)? Whoever.....tell them they are making me with my last 30 plus years of being a fairly close & astute follower of UNT athletics, its inner workings, hirings, decision-making processes, etc, etc, etc; anyway, such response focus on my posts are giving me a false sense of importance as an NT Ex. And you know that that is so very important to me out here in Parker County, Texas, where too many still think UNT is located in, uh, Denison, Texas?!?

Edited November 29, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[CMJ]

Well Plumm, alot more goes into conference shakeups than just football or basketball. And conference shakeups(ala MWC) get discussed on this board, not General(like the very title of this thread perhaps?). In fact this board is more "General" than the General board at times during the offseason(reference logos, color chemes, conference shakeups, etc).

So from that point of view, I felt the need to address that you shouldn't talk down to our friends from Bowling Green, Kentucky, America, Planet Earth.

And you don't have to accuse me of taking marching orders from anyone. This isn't a vendetta against you I march to my own drummer. Your current Pro-WAC stance has gotten me to respond more right now - but that's just because I disagree vehemently. When you go on and on about a new stadium I just zone out, because quite frankly it isn't a big deal to me yet(we don't deserve a new stadium until we can consistently average more than we do IMHO). But the WAC just screams Big West, which killed us. That, I DO care about.

Emmitt can tell you there is no one more stubborn than I am when I decide I'm right. Yes, I'm diplomatic and am not as much as a jackass as some people might be when they argue, but boy do I dig my heels in. You appear the same way. No harm, no foul - we'll just be eyeing each other till some new debates over our color green or uniform start up and I largly ignore the board from April thru August. Don't pretend it's not fun on some frustrating sort of level to debate against someone who is just as bullheaded as you.

[Baby Arm!]

My dial up has been acting up lately,

Dial up???? People still use that??? Next thing you'll tell us Plumm is you're afraid to get in one of them new fangled flying machines.... oh wait....