NCAA OKs three-year moratorium on bowl games

[MeanGreenTexan]

2 minutes ago, casual fan said:

Scheduling P5s in Denton is not as easy as some seem to think.

The Big 12 with 10 teams played 9 out of conference games last year.

SEC in Denton?  Don't think so.  Pac 12?  ACC?

Where is the incentive for them to play in Denton?

As you -1 me, go ahead and answer that question.

That's where you need someone who can sell these other schools on why they should come to Denton.   Other G5 schools seem to be able to make it happen... and they have even less to offer than the fertile recruiting grounds of DFW.

[untjim1995]

11 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

That's where you need someone who can sell these other schools on why they should come to Denton.   Other G5 schools seem to be able to make it happen... and they have even less to offer than the fertile recruiting grounds of DFW.

Unfortunately, that will never happen here as long as RV is your AD. And make no mistake about it, he's gonna be the AD for years to come.

By the time a P5 could come here, unless SMU buys out the series in the coming years, P5s won't even be playing teams on the road at the lower G5 conferences (SBC, CUSA, and MAC). Once the P5s split away, but keep the MWC and AAC as the non-p5s they will play and allow to keep playing for a chance at BCS bowl games, our division of play will be the new I-aa.

A good AD would notice this and try to build up a winner that could actually join one of the two conferences above us.  But that isn't who we have and its not what the UNT leadership wants, so we will just continue this ride until it has to end. That's where your true lack of expectations and interest truly hurts the program. You can have posters or general fans that buy into that thought, but the fact that the leadership of the university allows it and accepts it is why this thing never had a chance to improve the way it did at UCF and USF, as well as at Boise State, Nevada, and Utah State. The I-aa debacle of the 80s was the first bout of disease that struck the program, caused by apathy and loathing of football. Although some of the loathing has dropped, the apathy remains very strong. And it appears that it will again cause us to drop back down a level of play in the years to come. . It all could have been avoided, but we didn't have the will or the interest from the leadership to change it. Instead, we just accepted it all, allowing coaches and ADs to stay around for as long as possible without accomplishing much at all.

[UNTLifer]

21 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Seriously? Explain to me how the bowl win over a 7-5 UNLV meant anything? 

Because season ticket sales fell the next year, as did attendance.

What a B.S. response.  Please ask the players on that team what it meant.  UNT fans came out of the woodwork in DFW to go to that game.  The season ticket problem falls at the feet of a poor recruiting head coach and an AD that allows that crap to happen and who has yet to show, in 15 years, that he knows how to capitalize on moments like that.

[casual fan]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

That's where you need someone who can sell these other schools on why they should come to Denton.   Other G5 schools seem to be able to make it happen... and they have even less to offer than the fertile recruiting grounds of DFW.

The only team in CUSA west to do it last year was UTSA when they played K St in the Alamodome in front of 29,424.

Most G5s that did it were in the backyards of P5s which gave their fans basically an extra home game.  (FAU vs Miami, etc.)

Frankly, playing us in Denton because Dallas is a firtle recruiting ground has become a little overrated.

UNT is at a crossroad and Littrell had better be the answer.  Let's hope he is.

 

[UNTLifer]

5 minutes ago, casual fan said:

 

UNT is at a crossroad and Littrell had better be the answer.  Let's hope he is.

 

We just need to win and win consistently.  I heard UNT was at a crossroad when Dodge was hired and when Mac was hired.  We just need to pick the winning path and go that direction.

[UNT90]

56 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

What a B.S. response.  Please ask the players on that team what it meant.  UNT fans came out of the woodwork in DFW to go to that game.  The season ticket problem falls at the feet of a poor recruiting head coach and an AD that allows that crap to happen and who has yet to show, in 15 years, that he knows how to capitalize on moments like that.

That was kinda the point. The discussion wasn't about what was good for the players, it was about what was good for the program. 

That bowl game was a mirage that concealed much bigger problems in the program, which surfaced very quickly.

48 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

We just need to win and win consistently.  I heard UNT was at a crossroad when Dodge was hired and when Mac was hired.  We just need to pick the winning path and go that direction.

UNT was at a crossroads in 2004. Right now UNT has driven over a 2000 foot cliff and left that driver behind the wheel with more cliffs approaching. 

Insanity.

[UNT90]

20 hours ago, casual fan said:

Scheduling P5s in Denton is not as easy as some seem to think.

The Big 12 with 10 teams played 9 out of conference games last year.

SEC in Denton?  Don't think so.  Pac 12?  ACC?

Where is the incentive for them to play in Denton?

As you -1 me, go ahead and answer that question.

Where is the incentive to play in Jonsboro, Arlansas? Where is the incentive to play at SMU's Kyle field? Where the HELL is the incentive to play in Ruston, LA? 

Yet all those schools, and MANY more G5s are getting it done. 

Your question should be why UNT isn't.

The answer was given by the Hattiesburg Hustler himself directly to Harry on a podcast last year: Rick Villarreal would rather whore the kids for money instead of giving them a better shot at a meaningful, maybe program changing win. He said he would rather get the money for playing these games on the road. Biggest college football human trafficker in America.

Edited April 13, 2016 by UNT90

[untjim1995]

21 hours ago, casual fan said:

The only team in CUSA west to do it last year was UTSA when they played K St in the Alamodome in front of 29,424.

Most G5s that did it were in the backyards of P5s which gave their fans basically an extra home game.  (FAU vs Miami, etc.)

Frankly, playing us in Denton because Dallas is a firtle recruiting ground has become a little overrated.

UNT is at a crossroad and Littrell had better be the answer.  Let's hope he is.

 

What if he isn't? Just for a second, think about if Littrell doesn't make things any better than they have been here since the Dickey-led SBC Championship teams that ended in 2004. To me,  that crossroad we are at right now has way more to do with the AD and above than it does Littrell. He has a great pedigree, but to many of us, we just have serious doubts that he can change the direction of a program that has very large institutional issues regarding winning at revenue sports .

If Littrell does turn this thing around, he's gonna get a hefty raise somewhere higher up the football totem pole. Just like we saw Todd Monken get an NFL gig after bringing USM back from the dead in three years, if Littrell does that same thing here, he's gonna catch the eyes of lots of FBS ADs and other coaches across the NFL (same goes for Morris at SMU, too).

[UNT90]

8 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

What if he isn't? Just for a second, think about if Littrell doesn't make things any better than they have been here since the Dickey-led SBC Championship teams that ended in 2004. To me,  that crossroad we are at right now has way more to do with the AD and above than it does Littrell. He has a great pedigree, but to many of us, we just have serious doubts that he can change the direction of a program that has very large institutional issues regarding winning at revenue sports .

If Littrell does turn this thing around, he's gonna get a hefty raise somewhere higher up the football totem pole. Just like we saw Todd Monken get an NFL gig after bringing USM back from the dead in three years, if Littrell does that same thing here, he's gonna catch the eyes of lots of FBS ADs and other coaches across the NFL (same goes for Morris at SMU, too).

Dead on. Thinking Littrell can save this university from itself, it's ingrained extremely dysfunctional culture, and the worst AD in America is a recipe for a massive let down. 

[casual fan]

 

10 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Where is the incentive to play in Jonsboro, Arlansas? Where is the incentive to play at SMU's Kyle field? Where the HELL is the incentive to play in Ruston, LA? 

Yet all those schools, and MANY more G5s are getting it done. 

Arkansas State,  Louisiana Tech, and UNT  have each had 3 home games vs P5s since 2003.

Kyle Field is in College Station.  SMU plays at Ford Stadium in Dallas.

Carry on.

[UNT90]

22 minutes ago, casual fan said:

 

Arkansas State,  Louisiana Tech, and UNT  have each had 3 home games vs P5s since 2003.

Kyle Field is in College Station.  SMU plays at Ford Stadium in Dallas.

Carry on.

La Tech FUTURE schedule: 

S. Carolina - 2016

Mississippi St. - 2017

Baylor - 2021

 

Arkansas St FUTURE schedule:

U of Miami - 2017

in a lower conference.

 

UNT fans, always looking backwards. Don't be surprised when CUSA dumps you.

And I'm not shocked you know SMU intimately. 

 

 

[casual fan]

29 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

La Tech FUTURE schedule: 

S. Carolina - 2016

I didn't realize S. Carolina State jumped from the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference, dropped State from their name, and became a P5.

They must have one hell of an AD.

 

[UNT90]

1 minute ago, casual fan said:

I didn't realize S. Carolina State jumped from the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference, dropped State from their name, and became a P5.

They must have one hell of an AD.

 

My bad. Notice how you ignore Baylor and Miss St. future home games.

Anything to support a backwards looking agenda.

[Aquila_Viridis]

At this point I don't care who NT plays as long as long as they win most of the games consistently each year. We have no foundation of winning. There is no quick fix for it. Other programs are throwing ridiculous amounts of money. Memphis up here is paying a basketball coach $3 million a year. I am about at the point where I agree it has got so out of hand we should get off the train. There are hundreds of universities. I don't care which ones we beat. We should have our programs to a point where we don't need a million bucks from a huge drubbing. If that means we can only consistently beat the dregs of the world, let's only play them. 90 your dreams cannot come true. And believe me I am very very upset about that too but it is the reality.  With things going the way they are, a lot of other programs will eventually come to the same point.

[UNT90]

28 minutes ago, Aquila_Viridis said:

At this point I don't care who NT plays as long as long as they win most of the games consistently each year. We have no foundation of winning. There is no quick fix for it. Other programs are throwing ridiculous amounts of money. Memphis up here is paying a basketball coach $3 million a year. I am about at the point where I agree it has got so out of hand we should get off the train. There are hundreds of universities. I don't care which ones we beat. We should have our programs to a point where we don't need a million bucks from a huge drubbing. If that means we can only consistently beat the dregs of the world, let's only play them. 90 your dreams cannot come true. And believe me I am very very upset about that too but it is the reality.  With things going the way they are, a lot of other programs will eventually come to the same point.

They are coming true at EVERY conference mate not named North Texas.

The problem isn't the institution, the problem is the man running the athletic department and the people who continue to allow that to happen. He isn't trying to get these games. He is the worst AD in America, and scheduling football games is the job function where he is at his worst. 

If you are saying you don't think he is leaving anytime soon so you are throwing in the towel, that I completely understand. But don't think UNT can't get this done with the right leadership at AD. They can and will. Problem is it will probably be too late when that leadership change occurs. 

[UNT90]

4 hours ago, casual fan said:

I didn't realize S. Carolina State jumped from the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference, dropped State from their name, and became a P5.

They must have one hell of an AD.

 

EVERY team in our conference has a P5 scheduled at home in the next 4 years.

EVERY SINGLE ONE!

So who is right, every other AD in CUSA or the Hattiesburg Hustler?

If I'm recruiting against UNT, I'm pointing out that UNT is a 2 bit program that isn't capable of keeping up with my program and doesn't provide the chances to be successful that my program provides. I would also suggest that the program was on monetary life support and point to always playing whore games and never playing P5s at home as proof.

I suggest everyone look at UNT's western division foe's schedules. Take a loooong hard look at what they are doing and what UNT isn't. 

If you aren't concerned, you are simply an apologist that doesn't care whether or not UNT ever gets better.

Its an embarassment that UNT's peers are doing so much better than UNT in this area. It's no surprise that they are doing better in just about every other aspect, also.

Edited April 14, 2016 by UNT90

[untjim1995]

12 hours ago, Aquila_Viridis said:

At this point I don't care who NT plays as long as long as they win most of the games consistently each year. We have no foundation of winning. There is no quick fix for it. Other programs are throwing ridiculous amounts of money. Memphis up here is paying a basketball coach $3 million a year. I am about at the point where I agree it has got so out of hand we should get off the train. There are hundreds of universities. I don't care which ones we beat. We should have our programs to a point where we don't need a million bucks from a huge drubbing. If that means we can only consistently beat the dregs of the world, let's only play them. 90 your dreams cannot come true. And believe me I am very very upset about that too but it is the reality.  With things going the way they are, a lot of other programs will eventually come to the same point.

I'm kind of coming to the reality that maybe FBS football just isn't what we need to compete at. Not because I want to see it happen, but because the university's hierarchy of leadership and monied donors continue to make it abundantly clear that they don't care about winning at this level, mostly because of cost and fear, fear of losing known donors who would walk away if RV was ever fired. You cannot win at this level with a fear of losing money--you play with the mindset that winning will bring in more revenue. Instead, we get funds by scheduling bodybag games to cover expenses. Winning in revenue sports doesn't matter one lick here...costs in revenue sports is the priority. And you cannot win consistently with that mindset--as completely evidenced by the last 21 seasons, especially that last 11 years in football.

When you average 13k in attendance in your 21st season at the FBS level, with an AD who has been in place for 15 years, and have enrollment of over 36k and hundreds of thousands of local alumni, as well as millions of people surrounding your town within an hour's drive, you really have to ask yourself what changes need to be made, beyond hiring the 5th coach to run your program since 1994, which doesn't include Chico's two interim seasons. If you aren't going to change the mindset at the institutional level, then you probably need to consider changing it at a competitive level. We have proven rather solidly that we cannot do it at this level in those 21 years, as we have an 84-166 record in that timeframe, as well as a 65-118 record under the current AD. So you have two choices, at this point. You either drop down to try and win at a lower level, which seems like pure give-up, or you just accept the status quo, that losing isn't a problem. Sadly, winning, under the current mindset, isn't a real option--and whether you look at the last 5 years, 10 years, or 20 years, that isn't an opinion, its a pathetic fact that has been accepted. And acceptance only happens because of one simple disease--apathy, which has long ruled the day at UNT in regards to sports.

 

[Aquila_Viridis]

As good as treating the symptom would be, RV is only a symptom.  The root cause is failure of leadership at higher institutional and governmental levels. How do you change that? Lawsuit for misappropriation of the public's resources? Civil unrest? The institution is so painfully ineffective that surely some digging would turn up all sorts of improprieties, beyond those very significant accounting issues that were already discovered. My suggestion is they find a way to get people on their side and show they can develop reasonably winning sports programs. Otherwise the sports in particular is literally waving a flag by which more people can figure out, that there is something ridiculously wrong with the way they conduct themselves, for such a large institution - in such a rich locale - to be so hapless, in sports and in other respects such as the rankings as I've mentioned before.

[UNT90]

On April 14, 2016 at 6:30 PM, Aquila_Viridis said:

As good as treating the symptom would be, RV is only a symptom.  The root cause is failure of leadership at higher institutional and governmental levels. How do you change that? Lawsuit for misappropriation of the public's resources? Civil unrest? The institution is so painfully ineffective that surely some digging would turn up all sorts of improprieties, beyond those very significant accounting issues that were already discovered. My suggestion is they find a way to get people on their side and show they can develop reasonably winning sports programs. Otherwise the sports in particular is literally waving a flag by which more people can figure out, that there is something ridiculously wrong with the way they conduct themselves, for such a large institution - in such a rich locale - to be so hapless, in sports and in other respects such as the rankings as I've mentioned before.

No doubt an institutional problem and a big part of the reason that so many alumni leave, never come back, and end up providing monetary support to the spouse's university, not UNT (if they provide support for any university at all). 

Thats why we all meet so many alumni who simply don't care about UNT and haven't been back since getting their degrees and GTFO. 

The recent events with athletics just apply a big microscope to it for fans of athletics. 

Edited April 17, 2016 by UNT90

[Aquila_Viridis]

Even with all the institutional garbage, if we could just get and develop a really good QB it would change everything. You saw what happened when we had an average QB who sort of finally figured it out and also really took it upon himself at some key times. I have zero expectation for the coming season. I can't even explain why I follow this madness at all anymore. But anyway one would hope for the 2017 season. I don't really expect that to go well either but at least there is a chance.

[UNT90]

2 hours ago, Aquila_Viridis said:

Even with all the institutional garbage, if we could just get and develop a really good QB it would change everything. You saw what happened when we had an average QB who sort of finally figured it out and also really took it upon himself at some key times. I have zero expectation for the coming season. I can't even explain why I follow this madness at all anymore. But anyway one would hope for the 2017 season. I don't really expect that to go well either but at least there is a chance.

A greater chance for 2018 and 2019. There are two sides of the line of scrimmage, and a QB can do nothing to stop the other team from scoring. 

2017 will be painful from a won/loss and from an attendance aspect. I'm sure Littrell has figured this out already, although he would never admit it. If he is worth his coaching salt, you will see LOTS of redshirt freshmen and Sophmores getting substantial playing time very early. 

[DallasGreen]

On April 12, 2016 at 10:36 AM, casual fan said:

Scheduling P5s in Denton is not as easy as some seem to think.

The Big 12 with 10 teams played 9 out of conference games last year.

SEC in Denton?  Don't think so.  Pac 12?  ACC?

Where is the incentive for them to play in Denton?

As you -1 me, go ahead and answer that question.

Denton games with a P5 guarantee a game that will lose $$$$$ The lack of knowledge of the college game is grossly apparent in any area around town and even more so on campus. Play in Dallas or put a lost revenue game in your budget. A student newspaper that bemoans a $1/ hr fee increase might as well proclaim we want this to be a cheap non-recognized school in Texas. If $15/ semester is a problem for a student do they really belong in college? Our student athletic fee is a disgrace and the main reason we can not compete when our fee is 1/2 what our competition is getting!!!

[Mike Jackson]

I applaud UNT90 for trying to fight the apathy and pointing out the painful truth.  And it an administrative issue above RV that is ultimately at fault here no question.  I don't know what the plan is here and if I were working in the Athletic Department I would be looking for another job.  I would think having UNT Athletics Department on your resume would not do much to advance your career.  I disagree that P5 game in Denton will lose money.  As for opponents, I believe Colorado, and Nebraska would love to get some visibility in the DFW market since that have lost a great portion of it since their departure from the Big 12. 

But nothing really positive like a home and home (even a 2 Road for 1 Home) deal can get done with this AD.  The only thing that can reverse this negative mojo without institutional level changes is a magical 1 or 2 loss season.  And the losses would have to be competitive games against quality teams.  Short of that I don't think this program gets to were the few loyal knowledgable FBS UNT fans want to be minimally: a dominant G5 program.

Getting frustrated with student who have seen little or nothing to get excited about from this program is pointless.  The program is not even mediocre.

But back to the original argument the bigger the name on the marquee you face in a bowl game the better.  And winning is not the most important thing, being competitive is.  You don't want a 6-6 P5 team over a G5 team with 3 losses or less.  For example compare a couple teams from this year; I would take Memphis over NC State given a choice of opponents.  However I don't UNT should ever pass up a Bowl game opportunity against a marque program having a subpar 6-6 or 7-5 season.  If you are just competitive it shows that you are a legitimate program.  Even if you get respectfully beat down (no more that 24 points) you get exposure and name recognition it part of the country you are never seen on TV.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Mike Jackson

[UNT90]

On April 18, 2016 at 10:17 PM, DallasGreen said:

Denton games with a P5 guarantee a game that will lose $$$$$ The lack of knowledge of the college game is grossly apparent in any area around town and even more so on campus. Play in Dallas or put a lost revenue game in your budget. A student newspaper that bemoans a $1/ hr fee increase might as well proclaim we want this to be a cheap non-recognized school in Texas. If $15/ semester is a problem for a student do they really belong in college? Our student athletic fee is a disgrace and the main reason we can not compete when our fee is 1/2 what our competition is getting!!!

Well, athletic commitment from the administration is 1/10 what our competition is giving, so why should the students be forced to put more money into something that no authority figure at UNT considers any kind of priority and won't attempt to improve? 

This is a big reversal for me, but I no longer think making students pay for something which is completely neglected by the administration is the answer, at least until the administrative culture at UNT changes in respect to commitment to athletics. Benford still here, RV still here indicates business as usual at UNT. 

Answer me this, Dallas. Why should we ask students to pay more when the UNT BOR and President have shown no commitment in making needed changes to improve UNT athletics?