ODU Not Paying Stipends

[Mean Green 93-98]

And those things you bought went how far when compared with the expenses it takes to fund UNT athletics?  Folks, add up all the revenues that UNT athletics brings in and compare how that matches with its expenditures.  If it weren't for the annual football bodybag game, we'd be seriously in the red.  And that source of revenue is created primarily by the name recognition and fan base another school has developed--not because of anything UNT has done other than sign a contract and show up.

[Aldo]

And those things you bought went how far when compared with the expenses it takes to fund UNT athletics?  Folks, add up all the revenues that UNT athletics brings in and compare how that matches with its expenditures.  If it weren't for the annual football bodybag game, we'd be seriously in the red.  And that source of revenue is created primarily by the name recognition and fan base another school has developed--not because of anything UNT has done other than sign a contract and show up.

UNT athletic's difficulty to make money is not on the student-athlete.

The student-athlete continues to perform, and continues to brand the university.

[Mean Green 93-98]

UNT athletic's difficulty to make money is not on the student-athlete.

The student-athlete continues to perform, and continues to brand the university.

Ah, but that refutes the whole point, "The athletes make the university all kinds of money, and deserve a cut of it."

[Aldo]

Ah, but that refutes the whole point, "The athletes make the university all kinds of money, and deserve a cut of it."

I'm not sure I quite follow how you connect the two.

Said differently, people in north San Antonio are going to be buying up North Texas gear because of Marcus Smith. People in east Texas will be buying up North Texas gear because of Wilson, Rutherford, Goree, Ivery, etc. Family and friends may come and support them in games while buying tickets, concessions, and more merchandise. And this can be applied to all sports at North Texas.

Those players are bringing in some sort of revenue to the university while it is not their responsibility. That's it, that's my point.

Whether or not UNT athletics can find other additional avenues for money and funding is another (frustrating, as we can all agree) conversation altogether. 

Am I in the minority who thinks this?

[Mean Green 93-98]

I'm not sure I quite follow how you connect the two.

Said differently, people in north San Antonio are going to be buying up North Texas gear because of Marcus Smith. People in east Texas will be buying up North Texas gear because of Wilson, Rutherford, Goree, Ivery, etc. Family and friends may come and support them in games while buying tickets, concessions, and more merchandise. And this can be applied to all sports at North Texas.

Those players are bringing in some sort of revenue to the university while it is not their responsibility. That's it, that's my point.

I'm sorry, but that is laughable.  How much gear is being "bought up" because of any one UNT athlete?  Maybe 10 members of the family, 4 friends, a girlfriend, and 5 random fans of an athlete's high school buy an average of $50 worth of UNT gear each for the primary reason that they knew the athlete.  That's being optimistic.  So they spend a total of $1000 on gear, of which maybe $400 is clear profit.  Say they spend a total of $1000 a year on tickets and concessions, which again, is probably being optimistic when considering the average.

But how much does it cost to fund a student athlete?  You have tuition, fees, housing, food, uniforms, transportation to and from games, coaching, trainers, and support staff, the cost of staffing Apogee (or whatever facility pertains to the sport) at games, etc., etc., etc.  

I guess everyone's mind is probably already made up about this subject, so rehearsing these same general concepts over and over is not going to be productive.  But my personal fandom in college sports lies primarily in the fact that they are amateur.  Otherwise, why would I not spend my time, energy, and money following professional sports, which clearly feature a higher level of play than do college sports?

[Aldo]

Fair enough. I'm just glad they'll be getting their piece of the $200 a month pie.

[greenit]

My first job on campus paid $5.15 an hour. Can't pay for anything with that. Gotta be smarter about it...

So soph year I moved on campus working as an RA, Free food, free place to live. $72 a month stipend and I was not allowed to have a second job.

Cell bill, truck insurance bill (4 hour commute home for the holidays), emergencies here and there with no family support and you can see it could get a little tight.

Had bronchitis for 3 weeks before I worked up the courage to ask my friend for $21 to pay for antibiotics. Broke a finger and took me over a year before I could pay back the creditor for a now measly $300 bill. (No not all covered by my student health insurance).

So junior year I moved off campus and worked multiple jobs, blah blah blah, all the while going to school full time.

Give me a break fellas, these kids don't deserve 100 or 200 or 300 or on the high end 500 bucks a month while their university rakes up all kinds of revenues for their services?

Ain't nobody got time for that

[KRAM1]

I understand your semantics try here, but even so, I spent money buying a hat at the coach's caravan. I won free tickets to a basketball game, and I expect to spend money on some sweet ass pretzels and coke while at the game.

Anyway, the publicity, exposure, and name recognition is what makes it really easy for folks shell out money for a jersey that says "College University Football", or buy season tickets, or donate money.

Example, when I go look for a North Texas football jersey at Target, what am I going to find? A jersey with the number 9 on it. Previously, you could find a jersey with the number 3, or the number 5. Even onesies with those numbers.

The players, (Harris, Chancellor, Dunbar, if you didn't catch that), are creating brand recognition that becomes revenue for their institution.

And, those said players are getting an paid for education....don't like the deal?  Great don't take it...don't play.  No one will care.  Fund your own college education like the majority have to find a way to do.  This entitlement crap-loa is just pure bunk.  No one forces these folks to play.  You want them to be employees?  Then treat them like employees...scholarships taxable...pay that FICA as well.  Pay for your medical coverage as well.  You like that deal instead of being college ball players getting a paid for education?  Super...take it!  Oh, and when you fumble or throw that pick or miss that tackle, let's see how you like the docked pay.  And...let's see...you want to be paid?  Great...your tuition will be X dollars per semester and let's not forget those fees...oh, you food costs will be taken out of your funds as well...you know...since you are an employee.

 

Of course, going this far is nutty...about as nutty as folks whining over a free education and complaining that they don't have food to eat.  Crap-ola pure and simple.  

This crap is going to change they way some folks feel about donating to college athletics going forward.  It will also cause a rise in ticket prices, parking fees and concession prices.  The game for fans changes completely if college players are seen as being paid.  It's a game changer.

@KRAM1 Serious question, do you have the same problem with those on Academic Scholarships getting full COA instead of just Books, Housing, & Tuition?

I know COA is a touchy subject for many a poor student and those on this board, but what non-student athlete is helping make several corporate entities billions of dollars? Not every needy Student Athlete ends of getting Pell or other Grants. I agree a college students ability to budget the check provided by the AD is a personal issue and I don't really see how four guys living in a house can't make it work, just like many of us did back in the day. 

Although I'm all for Student Athletes getting COA Scholarships, I wish they would tie these to actually requiring the student athlete to live on campus and be part of the University Meal Plans and I don't mean only at North Texas but for everyone getting a COA scholarship. As I've been told, if we can get 100 (I think that was the number) student athletes to buy into the full meal plans, the Victory cafeteria could be focused on providing meals specifically tailored to an athletes nutritional needs. Requiring athletes to live on campus and have a meal plan would give us that added benefit and could help advance our programs.

 

Nope...no problem with that altogether as it is a different pot of money and a different situation altogether.

[FirefightnRick]

Fair enough. I'm just glad they'll be getting their piece of the $200 a month pie.

But will $200 a month buy enough Schaefer Beer for the weekends?  I'm concerned it may not be enough?

 

 

 

Rick

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2015 by FirefightnRick

[Aldo]

student athletes are the ones that make the NCAA rich, the ones that bring attention and funding to the schools. College football playoff, the various basketball tourneys, college World Series, etc etc. 

it's all a racket built on the backs of the students. Giving them a little bit more is not breaking the system  

side question: How much, if anything, does UNT receive from CUSA TV deals and the like?

Kids aren't asking for scholarships, the colleges are giving them away to that X-star athlete, trying to beat out the other school. Is a RB going to take the scholarship at ULL or be a walk on at UNT? Stipends are another tool in this arsenal. 

The sheer amount of revenue that NCAA, the different conferences, and the schools themselves make off of student athletes' successes will not be dented. 

[oldguystudent]

Common themes here:

1) RAISE THE STUDENT FEES TO AND ABOVE THE MAXIMUM!

2) DON'T PAY THOSE ENTITLED LITTLE ATHLETE SNOTS A FREAKIN' DIME!

Lots of disdain toward the youts around here.

[Ben Gooding]

student athletes are the ones that make the NCAA rich, the ones that bring attention and funding to the schools. College football playoff, the various basketball tourneys, college World Series, etc etc. 

it's all a racket built on the backs of the students. Giving them a little bit more is not breaking the system  

side question: How much, if anything, does UNT receive from CUSA TV deals and the like?

Kids aren't asking for scholarships, the colleges are giving them away to that X-star athlete, trying to beat out the other school. Is a RB going to take the scholarship at ULL or be a walk on at UNT? Stipends are another tool in this arsenal. 

The sheer amount of revenue that NCAA, the different conferences, and the schools themselves make off of student athletes' successes will not be dented. 

Fans make the NCAA rich. Fans are going to watch and support their athletic programs and universities regardless of who is dressing out. The product could be half as good overall and the fans would still watch and still support. We are here on this site, go to games, join MGC, watch UNT when they're on tv because we have an allegiance to UNT, not the players. The same goes for every program and university. 

The NFL by the numbers is more popular bc their allegiance is (mostly) due to the geographic place of birth or residence. There is far more uneducated than educated therefore there is far more NFL fans nationwide. 

[Censored by Laurie]

And, those said players are getting an paid for education....don't like the deal?  Great don't take it...don't play.  No one will care.  Fund your own college education like the majority have to find a way to do.  This entitlement crap-loa is just pure bunk.  No one forces these folks to play.  You want them to be employees?  Then treat them like employees...scholarships taxable...pay that FICA as well.  Pay for your medical coverage as well.  You like that deal instead of being college ball players getting a paid for education?  Super...take it!  Oh, and when you fumble or throw that pick or miss that tackle, let's see how you like the docked pay.  And...let's see...you want to be paid?  Great...your tuition will be X dollars per semester and let's not forget those fees...oh, you food costs will be taken out of your funds as well...you know...since you are an employee.

so...everyone should simply take the bare minimum their offered and seeking anything beyond that is deemed entitlement? you never sought a raise? you never weighed two job offers based on their compensation package? 

this is a billion dollar industry built largely on a protectorate-system that greatly limits the freedoms, mobility and especially compensation of those who provide the product. it's such a false equivalency to try and compare college athletes to the general student or those on an academic scholarship. if someone really liked my term paper on Antebellum Charleston and was willing to pay $100 for an autographed copy, I could sell it to them and not be suspended the next three lectures. if an agent wanted to buy me lunch and speak to me about my future I could do that without fear of being kicked out of class for a semester. these athletes are owned...either by their university, the NCAA or the media and fanbase.  

college football under the guise of amateur athletics is dead and the people to blame are not the athletes, but rather us...those who feed into the billion dollar system...who accept bloated coaches salaries and AD budgets as the norm...who demand to know more and more about some speedy 15 year old from DeSoto and then get upset when he expects to be treated beyond his years when he's 18...who hope and pray that some oil tycoon alum will pour in some of his riches so we can continue to raise our expectations from our student athletes...who buy the products advertised for millions of dollars on the bowl game played in billion dollar stadiums in front of 100,000 fans who shelled out $100s of dollars to live and die on the athletic prowess of a 19 year old kid. 

Edited August 4, 2015 by Censored by Laurie

[KRAM1]

so...everyone should simply take the bare minimum their offered and seeking anything beyond that is deemed entitlement? you never sought a raise? you never weighed two job offers based on their compensation package? 
this is a billion dollar industry built largely on a protectorate-system that greatly limits the freedoms, mobility and especially compensation of those who provide the product. it's such a false equivalency to try and compare college athletes to the general student or those on an academic scholarship. if someone really liked my term paper on Antebellum Charleston and was willing to pay $100 for an autographed copy, I could sell it to them and not be suspended the next three lectures. if an agent wanted to buy me lunch and speak to me about my future I could do that without fear of being kicked out of class for a semester. these athletes are owned...either by their university, the NCAA or the media and fanbase.  

college football under the guise of amateur athletics is dead and the people to blame are not the athletes, but rather us...those who feed into the billion dollar system...who accept bloated coaches salaries and AD budgets as the norm...who demand to know more and more about some speedy 15 year old from DeSoto and then get upset when he expects to be treated beyond his years when he's 18...who hope and pray that some oil tycoon alum will pour in some of his riches so we can continue to raise our expectations from our student athletes...who buy the products advertised for millions of dollars on the bowl game played in billion dollar stadiums in front of 100,000 fans who shelled out $100s of dollars to live and die on the athletic prowess of a 19 year old kid. 

Yep...sure did weigh offers....just like college athletes with multiple scholarship offers.  So, what's your point?  If I didn't like it, I didn't take it.  I didn't bitch about it after I took it.  Folks like you seem to want to place these scholarship athletes in the catagory of employees and fail to see the vast differences between scholarships and employment pay.  You want them to be equal?  Great!  Then tax the scholarship like my pay was taxed and take that FICA out as well.  Hey, they can pay for their own health insurance too, and that tuition can come out of their "pay" as well.  You are mixing apples and organ gets when you attempt to base your argument on an employment premise when the individuals are not subject to employment rules and conditions.  

[Ben Gooding]

Ain't nobody got time for that

Haha, awesone

[oldguystudent]

The way we did things back in [insert decade here] was the right way to do things.  Nothing has changed or evolved.  I got mine, so screw you today if things are entirely different.

[Censored by Laurie]

The way we did things back in [insert decade here] was the right way to do things.  Nothing has changed or evolved.  I got mine, so screw you today if things are entirely different.

it's been either that or hand-wringing over the fact that UNT can't compete financially that have been the only two arguments against this. 

[forevereagle]

 

Yep...sure did weigh offers....just like college athletes with multiple scholarship offers.  So, what's your point?  If I didn't like it, I didn't take it.  I didn't bitch about it after I took it.  Folks like you seem to want to place these scholarship athletes in the catagory of employees and fail to see the vast differences between scholarships and employment pay.  You want them to be equal?  Great!  Then tax the scholarship like my pay was taxed and take that FICA out as well.  Hey, they can pay for their own health insurance too, and that tuition can come out of their "pay" as well.  You are mixing apples and organ gets when you attempt to base your argument on an employment premise when the individuals are not subject to employment rules and conditions.  

The problem is that they are locked in to the university and cannot pursue employment. Sure, in theory, they have a limited window in which to work in the summer. The problem there is us. We expect them to be in summer workouts trying to become better players, not attempting to have a little spending money. To compound that, they don't compete well with other college students who can have more flexible schedules and can stay in the position once school starts.

You had a big difference in college. You could choose to transfer at any time with no penalty. You could work outside of your studies. You could decide to take fewer hours for a year or two to work more. You could earn spending money to go out to a movie or go on a date. These players don't have any of those options or freedoms.

Personally, given the personal attacks and pressure on these kids should be worth compensation on its' own. We sit here behind our keyboards and nail these guys for lack of effort, ability, and whatever else we deem needs harsh criticism. Don't make the grades because you were focusing on football? You must be stupid or something. Don't satisfy us with your performance on the field because you were focused on academics? You are a terrible player and should be benched.

I wish we would stop calling them scholarships. These players are heavily steered towards easy degrees and academics are de-emphasized. We don't set up athletes well for success after college. They don't get degrees (for the most part) that will allow them to get good jobs out of school. There is little that is scholarly about what they are here to do. 

Edited August 5, 2015 by forevereagle
Spelling error

[oldguystudent]

 

They don't get degrees (for the most part) that will allow them to get god jobs out of school. There is little that is scholarly about what they are here to do. 

I would actually disagree with that when we step outside football and basketball.  Lots of non-revenue athletes get legit degrees and go on to become successful professionals.  But then, I know this conversation is mostly centered around football.  I do, however, know a couple former football players who are doing quite a bit better than I am with their easy UNT degrees.

[forevereagle]

I would actually disagree with that when we step outside football and basketball.  Lots of non-revenue athletes get legit degrees and go on to become successful professionals.  But then, I know this conversation is mostly centered around football.  I do, however, know a couple former football players who are doing quite a bit better than I am with their easy UNT degrees.

Fair enough, but the ratio is unbalanced. And yes, focused around football and basketball.

[KRAM1]

 

The problem is that they are locked in to the university and cannot pursue employment. Sure, in theory, they have a limited window in which to work in the summer. The problem there is us. We expect them to be in summer workouts trying to become better players, not attempting to have a little spending money. To compound that, they don't compete well with other college students who can have more flexible schedules and can stay in the position once school starts.

You had a big difference in college. You could choose to transfer at any time with no penalty. You could work outside of your studies. You could decide to take fewer hours for a year or two to work more. You could earn spending money to go out to a movie or go on a date. These players don't have any of those options or freedoms.

Personally, given the personal attacks and pressure on these kids should be worth compensation on its' own. We sit here behind our keyboards and nail these guys for lack of effort, ability, and whatever else we deem needs harsh criticism. Don't make the grades because you were focusing on football? You must be stupid or something. Don't satisfy us with your performance on the field because you were focused on academics? You are a terrible player and should be benched.

I wish we would stop calling them scholarships. These players are heavily steered towards easy degrees and academics are de-emphasized. We don't set up athletes well for success after college. They don't get degrees (for the most part) that will allow them to get good jobs out of school. There is little that is scholarly about what they are here to do. 

Yep...and the other big difference was that I had to PAY FOR IT!  And, these players can transfer as well.  They are not locked in to UNT.  And, they can work as you mention if they can't budget well enough to eat!  As far as academics...they also get special academic tutoring that wasn't available to me and they get preferential treatment when setting academic schedules....all around practice time, etc.  interesting that I see players on dates all the time around Denton and even run into them in Ft Worth and Dallas and Lewisville and Carrollton, etc. when I am out and about...sometimes with "the guys", sometimes alone and sometimes with what appears to be a date.  How did they get there, how did they pay...where did that money come from?  This idea that scholarship athletes have no free time and no money is just crap-ola.  Sure, maybe someone else was paying.  Great...just like most every other college student I know and knew.

OK, let me also say this....I HATE this "pay me I'm entitled" crap-ola that is all the rage in college athletics today.  It is a concept built on entitlement and is a symptom of the sports society in which we live today all starting with the "everyone gets a trophy" and "let's not hurt anyone's feelings" crap.  BUT, that's my opinion.  If you think it is great to pay these scholarship players, well good for you.  I hope you will at least man up to your opinion and increase your donation level to the Mean Green Club.  I increase mine every year by a percentage, so don't go there with me.  And, I do not intend to stop doing that just because I do not want any part of this entitlement attitude.  So, if you are great with this concept and think these poor kids are being treated so unfairly, then man up, step up and start doing more to pay them what you think they deserve.  It is past time to stop "letting someone else do it".  You like this crap....help cover the cost because UNT sure doesn't have the money at this point.  Don't be like the Texas Legislature that mandates things schools must do by law and then fails to fund those initiatives.  You like this initiative, great...fund it!  Put your Mean Green Club  dollars where your opinion is and make it happen.

I have no problems with anyone of a different mind in this issue.  But, step up.  We will all be stepping up, like it or not, with higher ticket prices, concession prices, higher parking fees and higher Mean Green Club benefit levels. But, fees and price hikes alone won't cover the cost of this crap-ola.  So............get your checkbook so at the handy.

[TIgreen01]

I believe that most people think that these kids GET to play D1 FBS sports.  They are the lucky ones, as it is.  That would be enough for the vast majority that didn't have the talent to make a team themselves.  The scholarship part would be icing on the cake.  Also, most of the fans at G5 schools (and the more academically focused P5s (ie: mostly privates) actually went to college and had to work multiple jobs or take out loans to do so.  The idea that college athletes need more free stuff is never going to be palatable to these folks, no matter how much money the schools, TV, etc pilfer off of the system.

Its not unlike our actual reality.  The rich get richer.  Rather than banding together to right the wrongs, we divide and eat ourselves.

[KRAM1]

I believe that most people think that these kids GET to play D1 FBS sports.  They are the lucky ones, as it is.  That would be enough for the vast majority that didn't have the talent to make a team themselves.  The scholarship part would be icing on the cake.  Also, most of the fans at G5 schools (and the more academically focused P5s (ie: mostly privates) actually went to college and had to work multiple jobs or take out loans to do so.  The idea that college athletes need more free stuff is never going to be palatable to these folks, no matter how much money the schools, TV, etc pilfer off of the system.

Its not unlike our actual reality.  The rich get richer.  Rather than banding together to right the wrongs, we divide and eat ourselves.

could we start by banding together to rid our society of this entitlement mentality?  How about we start there, and I am not just talking about within college athletics.

[Censored by Laurie]

Yep...and the other big difference was that I had to PAY FOR IT!  And, these players can transfer as well.  They are not locked in to UNT.  And, they can work as you mention if they can't budget well enough to eat!  As far as academics...they also get special academic tutoring that wasn't available to me and they get preferential treatment when setting academic schedules....all around practice time, etc.  interesting that I see players on dates all the time around Denton and even run into them in Ft Worth and Dallas and Lewisville and Carrollton, etc. when I am out and about...sometimes with "the guys", sometimes alone and sometimes with what appears to be a date.  How did they get there, how did they pay...where did that money come from?  This idea that scholarship athletes have no free time and no money is just crap-ola.  Sure, maybe someone else was paying.  Great...just like most every other college student I know and knew.

OK, let me also say this....I HATE this "pay me I'm entitled" crap-ola that is all the rage in college athletics today.  It is a concept built on entitlement and is a symptom of the sports society in which we live today all starting with the "everyone gets a trophy" and "let's not hurt anyone's feelings" crap.  BUT, that's my opinion.  If you think it is great to pay these scholarship players, well good for you.  I hope you will at least man up to your opinion and increase your donation level to the Mean Green Club.  I increase mine every year by a percentage, so don't go there with me.  And, I do not intend to stop doing that just because I do not want any part of this entitlement attitude.  So, if you are great with this concept and think these poor kids are being treated so unfairly, then man up, step up and start doing more to pay them what you think they deserve.  It is past time to stop "letting someone else do it".  You like this crap....help cover the cost because UNT sure doesn't have the money at this point.  Don't be like the Texas Legislature that mandates things schools must do by law and then fails to fund those initiatives.  You like this initiative, great...fund it!  Put your Mean Green Club  dollars where your opinion is and make it happen.

I have no problems with anyone of a different mind in this issue.  But, step up.  We will all be stepping up, like it or not, with higher ticket prices, concession prices, higher parking fees and higher Mean Green Club benefit levels. But, fees and price hikes alone won't cover the cost of this crap-ola.  So............get your checkbook so at the handy.

would you be more on board with a stipend for college athletics if it came from a dedicated fund from the coffers of the NCAA rather than from each individual institution? 

a fund filled in large part if not entirely by the revenue from television contracts, advertisements, video game rights, memorabilia, et al? 

[KRAM1]

would you be more on board with a stipend for college athletics if it came from a dedicated fund from the coffers of the NCAA rather than from each individual institution? 
a fund filled in large part if not entirely by the revenue from television contracts, advertisements, video game rights, memorabilia, et al? 

Nope.  That's just passing the buck ... You know ... "Let someone else do it", rather than those who advocate for these stipends manning up and paying for them.

Where I might be a tad more interested is if the NFL, who uses college athletics as a farm system, would step up and pay the costs of the scholarships or a goodly portion thereof for all schools thus allowing the fans and schools to come up with the stipends.  Interesting that no one advocating for these entitlements has never mentioned the NFL who gets a free ride in all of this...all the while allowing colleges to fund the development of their players.  Wonder why no one advocating for this crap has mentioned that?  Talk about letting the rich get richer.  And, how about the players who sign these multi-million dollar contracts actually manning up and paying their schools back for their scholarships?  You know...rich guys and all that because they played college ball.  No end to where this "let someone else do it" might lead.  All because folks feel entitled.

Here's an interesting little factoid as well....next time you see a list of Mean Green Club members, check out how many scholarship athlete parents you see in that list and how many of our ex-athletes you see.  The ones you see there are the ones who get it, and we all owe them as we do all our Mean Green Club members a big THANK YOU.  Sadly, the percentage is very low.  It is also interesting to check those numbers out by sport played.  

Add....as to the last paragraph above...it is not unique to UNT as I have a friend who researches this sort of stuff at OSU (Okie State), and UNT is far from alone.  In fact, I check my son's school all the time...where he played college soccer...he graduated in 2001, and he remains the largest annual donor to the Academy and the soccer program from his class.  Sad.  Many of these graduates are pulling in well over six figure incomes annually driving and engineering those big merchant ships you see floating around among other job categories.  And, my wife and I remain one of the few sets of parents still donating to the Academy and the soccer program from that Class of 2001.  So, no, UNT is far from alone.  Doesn't make it any better to be in such company, but company UNT has is droves.

Edited August 5, 2015 by KRAM1