Fee Challenge

[DallasGreen]

That's what I mean. Once the public phase of this begins, we need to circle the wagons and support whatever the SA puts out there for the students to vote on. In-fighting, at that point, will do nothing but hurt the chances for this fee to pass.

If each student even gave 6% of the per capata average of what this board does, there would be no problem and we pay for our tickets.

[KRAM1]

Question...how many "STUDENTS" actually pay the fees as opposed to parents, grandparents, scholarship money, etc., etc. My guess...less than 1/3 of the students currently enrolled at UNT are actually the ones digging into their own pockets to pay the fees. Just thinking out loud.

FFR has a point in saying that the current 90,000+ non-giving alums in the DFW area might as well be "written off"....not all, but many as I have noticed on this board, folks can ALWAYS come up with an excure for not volunteering, buying tickets or contributing if they want to do so. That's easy, and if it sooths anyone's feelings so be it. To each his/her own.

But, there are some alums in the area that just need to be asked! Yes, some (me) believe that folks should give back to their universities "just because" it is the right thing to do and should not have to be ASKED, but no one should be opposed to asking folks. For yearts UNT has done a VERY VERY poor job of asking...and that goes for the entire school, not just athletics....it's is not simply the number of times asked, but perhaps the WAY one is asked....and WHO is doing the asking and WHO is being asked. I think we need (and may well be doing so as we speak) to do a much better job of seeking out high profile alums, successful alums and "just plain alums like me" and getting them to re-engage with THEIR UNT!

It is not "your father's UNT"...things have changed and are continuing to change, but if all we do is harp on the "way things were" or the "old ways and the old days" nothing will change. Time for everyone to take a fresh and new look at UNT without the clouded glasses of the past!

Things are improving...I say again...things are improving...you too can be part of the solution or part of the problem...YOUR CHOICE!

GO MEAN GREEN! SUPPORT YOU SCHOOL WITH YOUR TIME, YOUR TALENT AND YOUR $$$$$$$

See you at the Kick-off Cookout Saturday!

[Quoner]

Question...how many "STUDENTS" actually pay the fees as opposed to parents, grandparents, scholarship money, etc., etc. My guess...less than 1/3 of the students currently enrolled at UNT are actually the ones digging into their own pockets to pay the fees. Just thinking out loud.

This opening is insulting - there are a ton of students paying all or most of their own way here - way more than other schools from my experience.

The rest was good though.

[Cr1028]

I will continue to buy my 4 section C seats with chairbacks but refuse to donate to the MGC until it is no longer run by Southern Miss cronies who "can't be touched" or are "above the law". Accountability in the real world but not in the MGC, nice.

[Quoner]

I will continue to buy my 4 section C seats with chairbacks but refuse to donate to the MGC until it is no longer run by Southern Miss cronies who "can't be touched" or are "above the law". Accountability in the real world but not in the MGC, nice.

I believe they have reshuffled a bit if it helps.

[Cr1028]

I believe they have reshuffled a bit if it helps.

Quoner, I appreciate it but I've read of the reshuffling. From what I understand, the problem child just added executive to their MGC title and got another person to supervise underneath them. Sounds like slight of hand to me.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Well, with comments like "hippie throwbacks" could you blame if they thought they didn't??

Seriously, $10 million dollars in students fees isn't enough? I am trying to find ANY program in the country that collects more than $10 million from the students, and I just can't do it. And some of you guys want the students to cough up $20.4 million a year?

And so, here we are. We are at the crossroads, and from what I've seen so far this small increase will pass easily. And the alumni are going to complain that the students aren't doing enough, even though they provide 66% of the funding for athletics. Unbelievable.

Great point Flyer - Most programs in this country don't need that much from their students as they get it elsewhere. One of the main problems we have is that Athletic Department over there. We have NO leaders at this University that are focused on Athletics and the one "leader" we do have isn't much of one. Think about this, the one leader we have, with the initials of RV, keeps and promotes a lady that 90% of the alumni can't stand to deal with. Think about that for a minute. The person in charge of the student athletes grades and academics - the University just lost 5 scholarships under this persons leadership in this area - what happened to that person.....oh wait, they are STILL here. Seriously? We have been "raising" money for a new stadium for seven (7) years with a University with a huge bank of alumns and we have to lean on the students to build a stadium with an athletic fee? I have said it before and I will say it again - there are PLENTY of alumns that have mega bucks that might be willing to pay for this stadium, but at this point since no one has really been shown anything pertaining to a new stadium, no one really knows if they would or not.

Leadership is the key. At this point, Adler is correct (if I am understanding him), the only way this program can move forward in the areas that most on this board want, is for our new President to step up to the plate and express her desire for this to happen. But in addition to that, you have to have leadership that is not only capable to lead, but can also get along with your alumns.

Edited July 29, 2008 by GoMeanGreen1999

[UNTflyer]

I will continue to buy my 4 section C seats with chairbacks but refuse to donate to the MGC until it is no longer run by Southern Miss cronies who "can't be touched" or are "above the law". Accountability in the real world but not in the MGC, nice.

Yeah. The problem is clearly with the students.

[Zeke]

Is there any talk of a titration up?

[Cr1028]

Yeah. The problem is clearly with the students.

For your clarification, I was a student when I made this decision in October '07. Here's a tip, try to hang out with the "real donors" at a game that very few others are able to attend, like say Arkansas last year, when you and a buddy are 2 of maybe 5 students there tops. Then, see if you're treated as someone that truly cares about the program enough to travel that distance, or see if your treated as if you don't deserve to sit under the save canopy as the "elite".

To quote our marvelous newly promoted Executive Director of the MGC, "so you aren't a donor, you're not a season ticket holder, you're nothing". This is what is thought of our students. Remember that when you mouth off about alums. We were students not so long ago.

Edit: I donate in other ways though. I'm a NT Exes(or whatever we're called now) member and have the NT specialty plates which is supposed to donate $22 to the University from the fee.

Edited July 29, 2008 by Cr1028

[FirefightnRick]

Per some research I did on another thread comparing tuition and fees at North Texas vs other schools in the region. All information was taken off of each schools websites.

North Texas: T & F =$3233 for a 12 hour semester for a Texas resident. Tuition = $2263...Fees =$969

Tx A&M: T & F = $3771 for a 12 hour semester for a Texas resident. Tuition = $1698.75....Fees=$2072.25

texas U: T & F = $4333 for a 12 hour semester for a Texas resident. Tuition and Fees are included in the total price.

UTAlmost: T & F = $3890 for a 12 hour semester for a Texas resident. All tU schools are the same as above, all Tuition and Fees are included in total price.

Tex Tech: T & F = $3501 for a 15 hour semester for a Texas resident. I assume that a full time student at Tech is considered 15 hours instead of 12 according to their websites.

TCU: T & F = $17,000 for a 12 hour semester.

Even if North Texas maxed out to the $20 state cap our cost would be less. And total cost, not just how much goes towards athletics is what will be the most concern.

Rick

[UNTflyer]

Remember that when you mouth off about alums. We were students not so long ago.

I joined the MGC when I transferred to UNT as a sophomore in 2005-2006. I didn't wait to become an alum to join. I traveled to Norman last year and got treated rudely by Mandy. I know the deal with her and the MGC. But my donations go to the teams, and I don't let personality differences with Mandy get in the way of my contributions to athletics.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

I traveled to Norman last year and got treated rudely by Mandy. I know the deal with her and the MGC.

WHY does this happen?

[JayDub]

WHY does this happen?

The bigger question is "Why do we allow it to continue?".

[emmitt01]

Yeah. The problem is clearly with the students.

Let me just ask you this hypothetical.

Let's say you go to buy a car from a dealership that sells Hyundai's and Mercedes Benz's, and the first time you step on the lot you are not a rich man, so you buy a Hyundai. You pay what little money you have to buy this car. Four months later there is a problem with the transmission so you take it to have it repaired...while under warranty. You wait around for 2 hours for your appointment with the service manager then finally get to talk to him (her). You are told that, in truth, he (she) doesn't really have time for you because there are Mercedes owners who may or may not need their cars repaired that day and he (she) is waiting for them to drive up. Your car gets fixed, kinda except that it takes three days and they try to charge you for the repairs that are covered under warranty, and you leave. On your way home you stop at the 7-11 and buy a TX Lotto ticket. You hit all 6 numbers and are handed a check for $20,000,000. You think, "You know what, I'd like to call that dealership and tell them just how many cars I won't be buying" because of the way you were treated. You try this service manager's extension but he (she) has left an outgoing message that he (she) has been promoted to director of sales...the dealership's true fundraising arm...and now has a new extension. You hang up bewildered.

Now, try to tell me that, given this turn of events you can blame ANYBODY for not being a Mercedes owner. Yeah...I know, I can't blame 'em for not being a MGC member either.

And we can sit back and do the Jesus' like thing turning our cheeks and "not letting personality differences" sway us one way or the other. That's peachy because we're die-hards. I just don't see the common man...you know, the people who would allow us NOT to depend on students...wearing their WWJD bracelets around Fouts. And that's the real problem.

Edited July 29, 2008 by emmitt01

[forevereagle]

Let me just ask you this hypothetical.

Let's say you go to buy a car from a dealership that sells Hyundai's and Mercedes Benz's, and the first time you step on the lot you are not a rich man, so you buy a Hyundai. You pay what little money you have to buy this car. Four months later there is a problem with the transmission so you take it to have it repaired...while under warranty. You wait around for 2 hours for your appointment with the service manager then finally get to talk to him (her). You are told that, in truth, he (she) doesn't really have time for you because there are Mercedes owners who may or may not need their cars repaired that day and he (she) is waiting for them to drive up. Your car gets fixed, kinda except that it takes three days and they try to charge you for the repairs that are covered under warranty, and you leave. On your way home you stop at the 7-11 and buy a TX Lotto ticket. You hit all 6 numbers and are handed a check for $20,000,000. You think, "You know what, I'd like to call that dealership and tell them just how many cars I won't be buying" because of the way you were treated. You try this service manager's extension but he (she) has left an outgoing message that he (she) has been promoted to director of sales...the dealership's true fundraising arm...and now has a new extension. You hang up bewildered.

Now, try to tell me that, given this turn of events you can blame ANYBODY for not being a Mercedes owner. Yeah...I know, I can't blame 'em for not being a MGC member either.

And we can sit back and do the Jesus' like thing turning our cheeks and "not letting personality differences" sway us one way or the other. That's peachy because we're die-hards. I just don't see the common man...you know, the people who would allow us NOT to depend on students...wearing their WWJD bracelets around Fouts. And that's the real problem.

I see your point here, but there is a different angle to this. No one feels like a car dealership contributed to their life, and therefore, they want to contribute back to the car dealership. You can just go to another car dealership. Everyone here feels connected to our school, and that is why we donate. It is hard to just "go somewhere else."

I understand the problems with Mandy. I have never had any problems with her myself, but I do not dispute that others have. I would not let that stop me, but I definately understand why it stops others. I hope that anyone who is not a member of the MGC because of Mandy does not let that stop them from making contributions in other ways. By letting her stop you, you let her win. Just my 2 cents.

[emmitt01]

I see your point here, but there is a different angle to this. No one feels like a car dealership contributed to their life, and therefore, they want to contribute back to the car dealership. You can just go to another car dealership. Everyone here feels connected to our school, and that is why we donate. It is hard to just "go somewhere else."

I understand the problems with Mandy. I have never had any problems with her myself, but I do not dispute that others have. I would not let that stop me, but I definately understand why it stops others. I hope that anyone who is not a member of the MGC because of Mandy does not let that stop them from making contributions in other ways. By letting her stop you, you let her win. Just my 2 cents.

Again, we could all sit around singing Kum-Ba-Ya and talking about how to "rise above" being treated badly by our own athletic department...but then wouldn't we all be missing the point?! NOBODY in that athletic department is (should be) irreplaceable. We are a athletic program who is practically, hell literally, begging for new MGC members and donors. This isn't about "letting her win" and to think that it is is overly simplistic and just plain wrong. Throw out my car dealership if you will but just realize that the exact logic you use is why she is such a big problem. There are literally thousands of alums who don't "feel connected to our school" and one of the primary people who is supposed to reach out and establish that bond would rather crap on them.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

The bigger question is "Why do we allow it to continue?".

Unfortunately, the reason is a lack of leadership.

Let me just ask you this hypothetical.

Let's say you go to buy a car from a dealership that sells Hyundai's and Mercedes Benz's, and the first time you step on the lot you are not a rich man, so you buy a Hyundai. You pay what little money you have to buy this car. Four months later there is a problem with the transmission so you take it to have it repaired...while under warranty. You wait around for 2 hours for your appointment with the service manager then finally get to talk to him (her). You are told that, in truth, he (she) doesn't really have time for you because there are Mercedes owners who may or may not need their cars repaired that day and he (she) is waiting for them to drive up. Your car gets fixed, kinda except that it takes three days and they try to charge you for the repairs that are covered under warranty, and you leave. On your way home you stop at the 7-11 and buy a TX Lotto ticket. You hit all 6 numbers and are handed a check for $20,000,000. You think, "You know what, I'd like to call that dealership and tell them just how many cars I won't be buying" because of the way you were treated. You try this service manager's extension but he (she) has left an outgoing message that he (she) has been promoted to director of sales...the dealership's true fundraising arm...and now has a new extension. You hang up bewildered.

Now, try to tell me that, given this turn of events you can blame ANYBODY for not being a Mercedes owner. Yeah...I know, I can't blame 'em for not being a MGC member either.

And we can sit back and do the Jesus' like thing turning our cheeks and "not letting personality differences" sway us one way or the other. That's peachy because we're die-hards. I just don't see the common man...you know, the people who would allow us NOT to depend on students...wearing their WWJD bracelets around Fouts. And that's the real problem.

EXCELLENT example.

[Cr1028]

I understand the problems with Mandy. I have never had any problems with her myself, but I do not dispute that others have. I would not let that stop me, but I definately understand why it stops others. I hope that anyone who is not a member of the MGC because of Mandy does not let that stop them from making contributions in other ways. By letting her stop you, you let her win. Just my 2 cents.

Quote from her Meangreensports.com bio:

"Significant strides have been made in Mean Green Club membership and increased financial support of the annual athletic scholarship fund have occurred under McKinley’s leadership"

This is why I refuse to become a member while she is affiliated with it. She gets the credit for other's loyalty and not her piss-poor attitude. I bought four season tickets when I only need 2 and I bought chairbacks for all four because I want to help the football program any way I can without getting Mandy any credit for doing anything but missing out on any donations that would've been made during her tenure.

[Green Mean]

Yeah. The problem is clearly with the students.

I truly believe it all starts from the very top which includes all the administration etc. Lets face it...without good leadership nothing can ever get accomplished the way everyone would like it to be. Are the students to blame? Yes. Are the alumni to blame? Yes. But why are they getting all the blame? How can this happen? Its because the half ass leadership you get from the UNT administration is what is causing all of this. Poor leadership when it comes to especially athletics starts with the top of the pyramid in my honest opinion.

[forevereagle]

Again, we could all sit around singing Kum-Ba-Ya and talking about how to "rise above" being treated badly by our own athletic department...but then wouldn't we all be missing the point?! NOBODY in that athletic department is (should be) irreplaceable. We are a athletic program who is practically, hell literally, begging for new MGC members and donors. This isn't about "letting her win" and to think that it is is overly simplistic and just plain wrong. Throw out my car dealership if you will but just realize that the exact logic you use is why she is such a big problem. There are literally thousands of alums who don't "feel connected to our school" and one of the primary people who is supposed to reach out and establish that bond would rather crap on them.

No arguement there. Maybe "letting her win" was the wrong way to say it. By completely withholding your money, you allow her to continue to stand in a position of power. When you redistribute your money and let people know that you are dissatisfied, you can speak louder. Vote with you dollars. Accompany your donation with a letter that speaks to what your intentions truely would be had you not been treated badly. Flood any public email address from the school with your opinion. There are plenty of ways to still support your university that will not help her get any recognition. As true fans of UNT, we should support our school and do what we are able to help it move forward. If you do not feel that you can do that in one area because of a person who is involved there, then redistribute your resources and let anyone who will listen know of your displeasure.

As for the alumni who feel no conection to the university, that is a major problem. Given the track record that Mandy has among the people here, there isn't much that can be done from an athletics perspective to help with that situation. You are correct, no one is irreplaceable. If we want to recapture the lost alumni, there will need for some changes to be made.

[UNTBill]

I think it's a mistake in even mentioning the 90,000 alumni in the DFW area, or the hundred and something thousand living alumni and what they need to do and how they need to also step up etc? They need to be nearly written off for the most part and a mindset of starting over needs to begin. There has been too much damage for far too long to draw any substantial amount of those folks back in to the point that they will donate. Forget about that once and for all.

The concentration should start now with the 4 to 8 thousand of us that show up rain or shine, and with the new kids currently enrolled. With that I certainly don't mind an increase for tickets if that is what is expected of me, even though I have paid much more over the years during my support of this program since graduation than those currently enrolled will pay in fees to the athletic dept over the course of college careers.

Rick

I hear ya. I, too, think the concentration should be focused on the present and future. However, as a case in point, I graduated

in 81' and while there went to alot of Football and Basketball games after graduation I turned my apathetic little back on the University

and walked away. In the year 2002' my brother a long time season ticket holder came down from Connecticut for a football game and

asked me if I wanted to go. I very begrudgingly accepted. Since then I have been a 4 seat section E season ticket holder and MGC member

and I donate a little now and then to the EX's scholarship fund.

So while we focus on the diehards and the current students we should not forget the long lost sheep looking to find a way home.

[KRAM1]

OK, I do clearly see everone's point here...believe me, I do...and you can count me in the group that has been treated less then "like a donor" should be treated by certain folks in athletics...BUT, I am still a member of the MGC BECAUSE it helps move athletics forward at UNT...I am a Life member of the Exes (or...as was said earlier...whatever they call it now), not because I am excited about the new name change...I am NOT....I am a member of the President's Council BECAUSE I support UNT...not because I personally like or dislike everything our new Prez is doing...

I understand the "feel" when our MGC director makes statements like is reported here...and when the prior MGC director "snubbed" folks as was somewhat common with that individual...and when the "head honchos" in athletics do nothing to fix the situation...BUT, I am not employed in the dept. so really do not have facts regarding why folks are employed, remain employed, get promoted, etc. That is for the guys whose "fates" are on the line to deal with...for me., I just support UNT BECAUSE IT IS MY UNIVERSITY.

Like I have said many times...and will keep saying...one can always find a reason to justify whatever they want to justify. In some cases we just need to accept that those folks...have whatever reason they have and move on....can't waste time worrying about "past mistakes" and past snubs, etc., etc. That kind of stuff makes one a reral grump before their time...I am moving on.....yes, I swallowed a bit hard when I re-upped my Mean Green Club membership last year, but thought it best to follow my own advice...I am much happier about it now that I don't let the "stuff" bother me as much...time to move ahead and move forward.

Support the Mean Green anyway you would like...JUST SUPPORT UNT!!!!!

[TheColonyEagle]

I guess I've never seen the "evil" Mandy. She has never been anything but nice to me. I've had plenty of conversations with her at road games, on the deck, etc. I'm not a "big time" donor. MGC member and season ticket holder yes, but I wouldn't consider myself anywhere near "elite." She always makes a point to say "hi" and is prompt in her response whenever I have a question. I remember when the athletic center just opened I went up there to check it out, ran into her in the hall and she took me around to tour it. Rick was in his office. She took me by, introduced me as a MGC member and was very accommodating.

Not doubting anyone or taking up for her, just giving my experience in dealing with her.

Edited July 29, 2008 by TheColonyEagle