What Level Should A New UNT Head FB Coach Come?

SilverEagle · October 23, 2006

As pointed out on the "Dark Board", and I have to agree, RV had better do a full, legitimate search for a head football coach. No more of this "I'll offer my buddy at LSU(JJ), or the OC at Southern Miss. who I worked with before", the head coaching position at NT. A legitimate coaching search or DeepGreen won't be very happy with RV.
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Despite the good job that I think RV is doing, I totally agree with Deep. No more cronyism!

Arkstfan · October 23, 2006

FWIW, it's been my experience that bad football hires often cost AD's their job. Yet you constantly see schools tying the hands of the AD in hiring by naming blue ribbon search committees. If it isn't the AD's call who comes in for final interviews and isn't his call who gets hired, he shouldn't be held responsible for the guy hired.

PlummMeanGreen · October 23, 2006

2 Questions:

(1) How many of you think our SBC-mates "REALLY" want the University of North Texas to go with a hire profile name coach as our future and next new head football coach? Everyone who thinks they do say a very loud "I Do!" (Huh, come on now.........LOUDER!......................FWIW, I'm not hearing any "I Do's" from anyone)?!?!?

(2) For you who really are interested in UNT's football future, why such a high interest in a "offensive or defensive coordinator" as our next hire? I would see that as a "business as usual at UNT" generic hire that many non-UNT'ers who have (obviously) voted in this poll would love to see UNT hire "OVER" a high profile name coach.

NOTE: I would defer to GrayEagleOne (who has seen anywhere from 4 to 5 decades of Mean Green football); anyway, to a post of his and his theory on "coordinators" as those who just might not be able to handle the many added extra chores of being a head football coach? BUT...........again, because of so many non UNTer's registerered with GMG.com who are (obviously) voting in this poll, because of that this could never be considerred a scientifically accurate poll no matter the results of this poll...........

...............but rest assured to all, not one alum or fan of UNT Mean Green football would object to a high profile head football coaches hire if one were to fall in our lap as did happen at UTEP and Idaho U (but nevertheless, those 2 schools upper echelon leaders were pro-active enough to the extent that one would fall in their laps, of course.

Folks, lets not kid ourselves, but this group of non-UNT'ers who are voting in this poll know exactly what happened last time UNT hired a high profile name football coach. They won't like the results of all that again if UNT officials don't do the "cronyism" hire (to quote Silver Eagle) and hire someone who could help their future off the UNT payroll (as far as a high profile, uh, reference, that is)?

Who UNT hires for our next head football coach will affect everything from donations to season ticket sales in 2007 and hiring a Buford T. Ledbetter from some Deep South university is not going to sell many season tickets or cause some to want to give in larger number$ in Denton, Texas, America.

Just how many of us native Texans (&, uh, NORTH TEXAS alums) will it take to convice all our numerous non-Texan athletic department employees of such things until their light bulbs turn on? That is, telling them even more such cold harsh facts that they might not want to hear from all us multi-decade NT Exes/ MG fans (and non-experts) as to what will work and what won't work at our alma mater? Aren't 15,000 per home game averages at Fouts Field and that even during 4 bowl years a pretty big red flag and subtle hint that some things just might need to be done differently this time around?

Edited October 23, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

Quoner · October 23, 2006

Despite the good job that I think RV is doing, I totally agree with Deep. No more cronyism!
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Ha - why should he stop being half ass now?

If the coaching hire is a big decision to you, its very important to start making it known now that you won't accept "the easy choice."

Very, very important.

Especially if you sell flooring and have the AD's regular attention.... please, for all of us.

PlummMeanGreen · October 23, 2006

FWIW, it's been my experience that bad football hires often cost AD's their job. Yet you constantly see schools tying the hands of the AD in hiring by naming blue ribbon search committees. If it isn't the AD's call who comes in for final interviews and isn't his call who gets hired, he shouldn't be held responsible for the guy hired.
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So Arkstfan, what kind of hire do you think we of UNT should dedicate the next decade (DD's has 9 yrs under .500) of our football program's future?

AND............many of us do appreciate your regular visits, your concern and the excellent information you have given this forum numerous times and all that from an attorney's perspective, but why such a concern with who UNT hires as our next head football coach?

Would you, ASU and the rest of the SBC be a bit concerned if UNT actually got another Hayden Fry-type hire and your knowing what his higher profile successes were at NTSU that no SBC school has yet to duplicate nor does it look that one will do so any time soon?

Let me answer the aforementioned question for all of the Sun Belt Conference: Sure SBC'ers would be concerned if we got pro-active and found our own version of a "Mike Price" type of hire. And why? Because many of your most knowledgable of college football SBC contemporaries know we once had a coach that reached a level as to where his teams could beat a Tennessee, a UHouston (1 yr B4 they went to the Cotton Bow), an SWC-member SMU Mustang football team, a U of Memphis, etc, etc, etc, Matter of fact, I am sure that many of your fellow SBC'ers, Arkstfan, would get a rather huge rush if UNT stayed the present course (and direction) and Darrell Dickey were to be back at UNT next Fall and the one after that and even the one after that.

Arkstfan, if you haven't already done this and I'd bet you would have with all your most impressive knowledge of college football, but please do check (again) our last 25 years of head football coach hirings in Denton, Texas, America (and the roller coaster rides each of those gave us at the lower depths of competition (except maybe Corky Nelson to an extent) and tell us if we of UNT can do much worse with whoever we hire no matter whose job it is to hire our next head football coach. Matter of fact, we are not doing well right now with present UNT's varsity coaches who would (not) be over .500 in wins/losses with a few years on the UNT payroll.................... so just maybe that being at the top of our list as a major concern from many with who actually ends up on our final list of potential head football coach hires when the time comes to fill that position?

And................congratulations on your school's win over the MG the other night...........hopefully, we will soon be back in SBC contention and hopefully at a higher profile among all other NCAA D1-A schools. Hopefully, it will be NORTH TEXAS that takes the SBC to the next level (Top 25 ratings for starters?) that even WAC and MAC football champions have taken their respective leagues to such heights; but if its the ASU Indians that gets their first----so be it! Just so some SBC football program raises the bar to Top 25 status (even Top 50 will do for the moment) and such a status for all our schools to recruit toward and start shooting for as all our goals.

Edited October 23, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

TIgreen01 · October 23, 2006

FWIW, it's been my experience that bad football hires often cost AD's their job. Yet you constantly see schools tying the hands of the AD in hiring by naming blue ribbon search committees. If it isn't the AD's call who comes in for final interviews and isn't his call who gets hired, he shouldn't be held responsible for the guy hired.
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Yes...I am not a fan of search committees. Too much politicking.

PlummMeanGreen · October 23, 2006

Yes...I am not a fan of search committees. Too much politicking.
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Personally, I'd like to see UNT Regent (and NT football letterman) C. Dan Smith take the ball and run with this next hiring. From all I've heard, he knows what UNT needs to be successful again (and at a higher profile would be my guess with that).

NOTE: Quite frankly, I'm more than surprised how "high profile hire" has received as many votes in this poll as it has inasmuch as how brow beaten (by some UNT leaders of past years) many of our younger generation NT Exes have been for many of that group to think we could ever do much more at UNT than just go with yet another "project" type of hire.

I think we all know by now what recruiting "projects" has done to us long term and even at an SBC level of competition.

Arkstfan · October 23, 2006

#1. I'm friends with a number of UNT fans so I have an interest.

#2. It is not in ASU long-term interest for a school in the conference to not do as well as it can. Look at the Southland of the 1980's. It was a premier I-AA league competing well nationally. Today they are a one-bid league and will be lucky if the champ plays two games in the playoffs. Excellence breeds excellence. I was very unhappy with MTSU retaining Andy Mc after the 2004 season because their program was wasting away.

#3. I love the business of college athletics and have great respect for the administrators and as a matter of principle find it offensive that forces outside an athletic department will force a coach down the throat of an AD and then blame the AD when that person fails at the job driving down attendance and donations. Committees that help assess candidates are fine, but if the AD's neck is on the line, in the end it must be his hire.

#4. Every job in America is different. And even the same job can be different at different points in a school's history. For example 20 years ago I would have prized the chance to get someone with Memphis ties as head coach at ASU. Today it would be a minor-factor because post-prop 48 they no longer turn out as much I-A talent. UNT today probably has to put a greater emphasis on the personality of the coach because of the need to raise money for a stadium coming off struggling seasons. At ASU if we continue to have success that would be less of need because our football facilities are in better shape at this point allowing the athletic administration to carry the bulk of the load. Some coaches are great builders who struggle to maintain success once achieved (see Lou Holtz who a few years ago would have been awesome hire at a struggling school but questionable for one doing well).

Spaceraider · October 23, 2006

....I was very unhappy with MTSU retaining Andy Mc after the 2004 season because their program was wasting away.....
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No less than me or any number of MT fans. McCollum should have been gone after the 2003 season, IMHO. But after, then AD, Donnelly refused to extend McCollum's contract at that time, McCollum did an end-run to President McPhee who extended McCollum's contract two years on top of what it was, IIRC.

Politically, I don't think McPhee could have bought off on a change after 2004 having been responsible for adding two more years to a contract. Anyway, McPhee and Donnelly were not on good terms and I think McPhee wanted his own AD in place before having to make a change if necessary. Donnelly was removed in January of 2005 and Chris Massaro was hired as AD a few months later.

After the 2004 season, MT had 17 or 18 starters returning the next season and an extremely favorable schedule for 2005, I had more patience for staying the course, thinking there was no way MT couldn't finish at least 7-4 in 2005. McCollum coached the 2005 team to a 4-7 record with four home losses and Massaro announced that a change would be made right after the sixth loss was in the books.

The thing about Massaro as MT AD, he has not conducted dog and pony shows of bringing in candidates to campus for public interviews for the couple of hires he's made. He keeps things close to the vest and makes his decision in more of a discrete manner.

The way things have worked out with Coach Stockstill so far, I couldn't be any happier.

PlummMeanGreen · October 24, 2006

#1. I'm friends with a number of UNT fans so I have an interest.
#2. It is not in ASU long-term interest for a school in the conference to not do as well as it can. Look at the Southland of the 1980's. It was a premier I-AA league competing well nationally. Today they are a one-bid league and will be lucky if the champ plays two games in the playoffs. Excellence breeds excellence. I was very unhappy with MTSU retaining Andy Mc after the 2004 season because their program was wasting away.
#3. I love the business of college athletics and have great respect for the administrators and as a matter of principle find it offensive that forces outside an athletic department will force a coach down the throat of an AD and then blame the AD when that person fails at the job driving down attendance and donations. Committees that help assess candidates are fine, but if the AD's neck is on the line, in the end it must be his hire.
#4. Every job in America is different. And even the same job can be different at different points in a school's history. For example 20 years ago I would have prized the chance to get someone with Memphis ties as head coach at ASU. Today it would be a minor-factor because post-prop 48 they no longer turn out as much I-A talent. UNT today probably has to put a greater emphasis on the personality of the coach because of the need to raise money for a stadium coming off struggling seasons. At ASU if we continue to have success that would be less of need because our football facilities are in better shape at this point allowing the athletic administration to carry the bulk of the load. Some coaches are great builders who struggle to maintain success once achieved (see Lou Holtz who a few years ago would have been awesome hire at a struggling school but questionable for one doing well).
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Fair enough...

As I was asking, Arkstfan, was just curious as to why all the interest, that's all.

And yes I agree, we do need such a personality at UNT and to expand on that, one who can (with his entourage) swagger into (Texas Style) some DFW Metroplex Fortune 500 C.E.O's conference room and tell him how important it would be for his company to kick in about $20 million or more (to get stadium naming rights first of all) and to help this football program that has been in a deep sleep for most of the last 25 years at lower levels of competition and.....................for many long time MG fans (much longer than myself) of NTSTC, NTSC and NTSU see many of their dreams for Mean Green football come true while they are still around to witness all that..........

..............as well as finally, finally, finally.................. see our alma mater rid itself of its single most negative perception-creator facility-wise (ask those of us who have worked in DFW a few decades or more about that); anyway, that well known edifice posted about numerous X's on GMG.com that after its implosion will one day become part of the Texas Department Transportation interstate system as well as the rest of the acreage becoming future homes of more academic centers of learnings and dormitories to handle more projected boom growth in Denton, Denton County and (of course) last and certainly not least......... @

THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH TEXAS!

Edited October 24, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen