floyd doping

[Got5onIt]

Yep, because if he is convicted of tax evasion then that proves that he used steroids! Right?!

Also, did someone just try to defend blood doping? Then try to relate that to taking medication for the flu? Blood doping = illegal. Flu medication = flu medication.

It is pretty sickening how people either completely ignore the double standard or try to defend it. Bonds has never had a positive test, and federal investigators can't find anything on him or else they wouldn't be trying to convict him of tax evasion or tried to get Grimsley, a person who probably never met Bonds, to wear a wire and talk to Bonds about steroids. Yet it seems like he is guilty until proven innocent. Now Landis does have a positive test and everyone is so quick defend him and believes he is only guilty if he is proven guilty... twice.

Let's not stop there. Palmero testing positive got a tiny fraction of the attention that Bonds has gotten. Why is that? Because Palmero is a likable guy? What about Mark McGuire? If Bonds is guilty of using steroids then using the same logic then McGuire is no doubt guilty of using steroids. Why do people seem to ignore him? Or Sosa? The two guys who brought back baseball from after the strike are getting a pass although it is obvious that they did a little more than lift a few weights to get as huge as they did. Not to mention reports of McGuire's horrible back acne. Anyone see Sosa's roid rage in the tunnel while after his turn in the home run derby a few years ago? But baseball has been very very good to him and hes a likable guy, right?

Bonds might be guilty and Landis, Armstrong, Palmero, McGuire and Sosa might all be innocent. Whatever. I just want people to drop the double standard and to quit being hypocrites.

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I agree with you Ebone.

MLB wants to make an example out of Bonds. It's the only way they can save face in this steroid era.

[FirefightnRick]

Yep, comparing Bonds and McGuire is just like comparing apples and oranges. Baseball stars. Home run record breakers. Noticable increase in size over a few year span. And so on. You got me man, they just don't compare at all.

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Nope, comparing Bonds to Landis IS comparing apples to oranges. Two completely different situations.

.....Bonds has never had a positive test, and federal investigators can't find anything on him or else they wouldn't be trying to convict him of tax evasion or tried to get Grimsley, a person who probably never met Bonds, to wear a wire and talk to Bonds about steroids. Yet it seems like he is guilty until proven innocent. Now Landis does have a positive test and everyone is so quick defend him and believes he is only guilty if he is proven guilty... twice.

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By the way, the government didn't act on Bonds with an indictment from the recent Grand Jury because they are waiting for his trainer, Anderson to give his testimony, which he's refusing to do so and just got out from serving a two week jail sentence because of that. A new Grand Jury is expected to be named next week to continue. The government has a lot riding on this, being that it's a high profile case and all and they want to take every measure possible to not screw it up. I say good luck on that! Anderson had his lawyers notify officials today that he will continue to refuse to testify against Bonds and is willing to go back to jail if he has to.

Rick

Edited July 29, 2006 by FirefightnRick

[HawaiianGreen]

Here is some food for thought. Maybe just maybe the french tainted the sample you know they are the same people that tried last year to retest Armstrong's 1999 (i think) sample before they had a test for the baned substance and in the end were proved to be corrupt. So maybe just maybe this could have happened remember this is coming from a country that violated UN sactions agaist Iraq following the first gulf war.

Come on this is crazy.

These statements are not necessarily the views of HawaiianGreen.

Just a thought to stir the mind.

P.S. Bonds is guilty!! Cheater!!

Go Green!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FirefightnRick]

Maybe just maybe the french tainted the sample you know they are the same people that tried last year to retest Armstrong's 1999 (i think) sample before they had a test for the baned substance and in the end were proved to be corrupt.

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Actually, as it has turned out to be, the lab that tested the Landis sample is the exact same lab that was the basis for the the Le Equipe' scandal last year on Armstrong, which tried to show that a frozen sample from Armstrong taken back in '99 tested positive for levels of EPO. Armstrong is currently requesting that the lab be dismissed for future work.

Rick

Edited July 29, 2006 by FirefightnRick

[HawaiianGreen]

Actually, as it has turned out to be, the lab that tested the Landis sample is the exact same lab that was the basis for the the Le Equipe' scandal last year on Armstrong, which tried to show that a frozen sample from Armstrong taken back in '99 tested positive for levels of EPO.  Armstrong is currently requesting that  the lab be dismissed for future work.

Rick

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My point exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Remember that the post does not necessarily reflect the opinion of HawaiianGreen!!!!

[HawaiianGreen]

If correct he won a lawsuit agaist them and released another?

[H-towngreen]

His levels of epitestosterone to testosterone were of ratio. His testosterone was regual. This is highly unheard of, so blood doping is doubtful.

And while yes part of the grand jury invesitgation into Bonds is about tax evasion, you seemed to leave out the part about perjury. You know lying under oath about taking steroids. Thats why his pal is going to the slammer for the second time. Covering ass for Bonds

[HawaiianGreen]

His levels of epitestosterone to testosterone were of ratio. His testosterone was regual. This is highly unheard of, so blood doping is doubtful.

And while yes part of the grand jury invesitgation into Bonds is about tax evasion, you seemed to leave out the part about perjury. You know lying under oath about taking steroids. Thats why his pal is going to the slammer for the second time. Covering ass for Bonds

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would you do that if your high school buddy was guilty (not proven).

[Quoner]

would you do that if your high school buddy was guilty (not proven).

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There's only a five percent chance I would even do that for Johnny

[the green rokemi]

There's only a five percent chance I would even do that for Johnny

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[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

---The Landis situation is completely illogical.... A one day use of steriods or anything that this caused this would be of NO benefit.....it takes long term use to be of any help. Considering he had passed many more tests during the tour...this make NO sense... Why use a banned substance for no benefit????? besides he would know he was going to be tested. There has to be another explanation.... bad testing or something he ate or took to cause this odd inbalance. Let us hope the second test will show nothing or explain what happened.

---Bonds: People claim they saw him use Steriods, his body changed dramatically and his performance as well. Looks very "fishy" to me....plus he seems to be one of "the rules don't apply to me" people. Now the IRS is after him for not reporting income which he was diverting to his mistress...........what a great guy!!

[Guest e-bone]

---The Landis situation is completely illogical.... A one day use of steriods or anything that  this caused this would be of NO benefit.....it takes long term use to be of any help.  Considering he had passed many more tests during the tour...this make NO sense... Why use a banned substance for no benefit????? besides he would know he was going to be tested.  There has to be another explanation.... bad testing or something he ate or took to cause  this odd inbalance.  Let us hope the second test will show nothing or explain what happened.

---Bonds: People claim they saw him use Steriods,  his body changed dramatically and his performance as well.  Looks very "fishy" to me....plus he seems to be one of "the rules don't apply to me" people.  Now the IRS is after him for not reporting income which he was diverting to his mistress...........what a great guy!!

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Increased testosterone levels can increase energy levels, so it is quite odd that he was able to make his huge come back and then have a positive test.

Bonds never broke any rules. Even if he took steroids he took them when they were not banned by baseball. Since steroids were banned he has not failed any drug tests, so I'm not exactly sure why you think he believes the rules don't apply to him. Possibly because Bonds is not a huge fan of the media and thus the media isn't a huge fan of his, which influences peoples perception of him.

BTW, what do you think of Mark McGuire, Sammy Sosa and Rafael Palmero? Do they get a free pass because they are/were fan and media heart throbs?

[H-towngreen]

Increased testosterone levels can increase energy levels, so it is quite odd that he was able to make his huge come back and then have a positive test.

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For the last time he did not have increased levels of testosterone!! His testosterone levels were fine, his epitestosterone levels were low.

[LongJim]

Bonds never broke any rules. Even if he took steroids he took them when they were not banned by baseball. Since steroids were banned he has not failed any drug tests, so I'm not exactly sure why you think he believes the rules don't apply to him.

Unless the steroids he allegedly took were prescribed by a doctor, he was taking performance-enhancing drugs illegally. So apparently, he thought the laws of the entire nation didn't apply to him. If this is so, then why not let the players do coke and speed--as they used to do--to enhance their performance? What's the difference?

BTW, what do you think of Mark McGuire, Sammy Sosa and Rafael Palmero? Do they get a free pass because they are/were fan and media heart throbs?

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No. They should not get a free pass. McGuire and Palmeiro, in particular, are pathetic.

[Guest e-bone]

Unless the steroids he allegedly took were prescribed by a doctor, he was taking performance-enhancing drugs illegally.  So apparently, he thought the laws of the entire nation didn't apply to him.  If this is so, then why not let the players do coke and speed--as they used to do--to enhance their performance?  What's the difference? 

No.  They should not get a free pass.  McGuire and Palmeiro, in particular, are pathetic.

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Coke and speed weren't tested for either until MLB's recently adopted drug testing policy, so there is no difference. Basically MLB didn't care either way what players were taking until the whole steroid controversy started, and then they had to in order to attempt to save face. You didn't hear Bud Selig questioning McGuire and Sosa whenever they were going for the season record because they were recapturing the public's attention after the strike had driven the fans away. Heck, to this day I doubt he cares either way if McGuire or Sosa took steroids. Much like the majority of the public, he just wants to nail Bonds and then claim victory over steroid use in baseball. Again, the double standard.

Anyways, are we talking about sport or law here? I don't recall anyone being up in arms about Bonds illegally owning or taking steroids, just that he has supposedly cheated in recent years to become a better baseball player and that is why he is challenging the career home run record. I've yet to hear anyone say, "We need to nail that Barry Bonds for breaking the law!".

If Landis' second drug test is positive as well, and assuming France has anti-steroid laws, should he be prosecuted in France?

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

If Landis' second drug test is positive as well, and assuming France has anti-steroid laws, should he be prosecuted in France?

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---Some of yawl need to read closely. I am no medical expert but they keep using the term inbalance of testosterone. There seems to be two types and they are not in the usual ratio. It is not so much about an excessive amount and again the way they usually get inbalance is the use of steriods but.... a sudden use of steroids is absolutely makes no sense since they require long time use.

---This whole situation does not make any sense, there is no benefit to use them for a day or so WHY would he or anyone have used them knowing they would be tested. The other days of competition he apparently passed without problems. Using anything as medically explained is senseless.

---To me it looks like some physical abnormality OR someone somehow got some into his body sosmehow (food/drink) OR someone messed with the drug exam OR the particular exam is not 100% reliable. MAYBE time will tell.

---Remember it took years before the security guard at the Atlanta Olympics was completely cleared...finally with no doubt when another confessed to being part of that. Much of the public opinion doesn't know about that confession that even now-

---It seems to me that the French officials just refuse to admit an American can actually win this race. Lance was hounded for years. America has far fewer racers in this sport but somehow we have done pretty well the past 20 years despite that with three different winners and 11? wins....

[Guest e-bone]

---Some of yawl need to read closely.  I am no medical expert but they keep using the term inbalance of testosterone.  There seems to be two types and they are not in the usual ratio.  It is not so much about an excessive amount and again the way they usually get inbalance is the use of steriods but.... a sudden use of steroids is absolutely makes no sense since they require long time use.

---This whole situation does not make any sense, there is no benefit to use them for a day or so WHY would he or anyone have used them knowing they would be tested.  The other days of competition  he apparently passed without problems.  Using anything as medically explained is senseless.

---To me it looks like some physical abnormality OR someone somehow got some into his body sosmehow (food/drink) OR someone messed with the drug exam OR the particular exam is not 100% reliable.  MAYBE time will tell.

---Remember it took years before the security guard at the Atlanta Olympics was completely cleared...finally with no doubt when another confessed to being part of that.  Much of the public opinion doesn't know about that confession that even now-

---It seems to me that the French officials just refuse to admit an American  can actually win this race.  Lance was hounded for years.  America has far fewer racers in this sport but somehow we have done pretty well the past 20 years despite that with three different winners and 11? wins....

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Like you, I am no medical expert, so I am not going to say whether or not this situation makes any sense or not. I've done some reading and it is possible that a masking agent might be the cause of the imbalance in his testosterone and epitestosterone. There were a couple of other interesting things I read, but I really don't know what most of it means or pretend to understand it. However, I assume that if experts say there was something unnatural with the test and it could be grounds for stripping him of the title, then something must be wrong.

Back to the subject. This is just another example of someone admitting they know nothing about the subject yet going out of their way to defend someone who has a positive drug test. Again, the double standard.

[FirefightnRick]

Back to the subject. This is just another example of someone admitting they know nothing about the subject yet going out of their way to defend someone who has a positive drug test. Again, the double standard.

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What double standard? Making an oppinion based on reported investigations of two completely different situations seems natural to me. Both cases between Landis and Bonds, have not come to a conclusion and as I read here, it is believed by many posters that both will be dealt with accordingly as the governing bodies that over see their sports see's fit if they are found to have violated the rules. But the differences between the two are vast. One has broken the law, the other hasn't done anything other than raise a red flag to himself. One has perjured himself in court, admitted to using illegal drugs while claiming ignorance for the use of those drugs, and cheated on his taxes to keep an extramarital affair secret. The other gave a urine sample with an elevated testosterone level, which is a natural hormone that everybody produces, some more than others. Not a complete reason just yet to throw him under the bus. Seems common sense to me that oppinion is naturally going to weigh more against one over the other if compared side by side? I think maybe the media may be where the blame lies if you don't like how Bonds has been treated? Bond's treatment by the public and the media, although on a local scale, is similar to what Armstrong faced in Europe the past 7 years even though while argueably the most tested athlete on earth never tested positive for an illegal drug.

Rick

Edited July 31, 2006 by FirefightnRick

[Guest e-bone]

One has broken the law, the other hasn't done anything other than raise a red flag to himself.

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Thanks for proving my point. Bonds hasn't been convicted of anything or failed any drug tests, yet you say he is guilty. Landis has had a positive drug test and is on the verge of having his victory stripped, and that is only "raising a red flag". Again, the double standard.

[untgirl04]

Ok... see my comments in bold.

Yep, because if he is convicted of tax evasion then that proves that he used steroids! Right?!

Also, did someone just try to defend blood doping? Then try to relate that to taking medication for the flu? Blood doping = illegal. Flu medication = flu medication.

It is pretty sickening how people either completely ignore the double standard or try to defend it. Bonds has never had a positive test, and federal investigators can't find anything on him or else they wouldn't be trying to convict him of tax evasion or tried to get Grimsley, a person who probably never met Bonds, to wear a wire and talk to Bonds about steroids. Yet it seems like he is guilty until proven innocent. Now Landis does have a positive test and everyone is so quick defend him and believes he is only guilty if he is proven guilty... twice.

A big part of the reason everyone assumes Bonds is guilty is the overwhelming physical evidence. Rather than begin to lose power with age, Bonds has actually gained strength. Also, when compared to the earlier Bonds, when he was a solid, singles guy, the new Bonds has gigantic arms and tiny legs (consistent with the affects of steriods). Add that to his kinda girly voice and history of violence (see the dugout fight with Jeff Kent and the police reports from his girlfriend), and you've got a pretty good case for steriods.

Let's not stop there. Palmero testing positive got a tiny fraction of the attention that Bonds has gotten. Why is that? Because Palmero is a likable guy? What about Mark McGuire? If Bonds is guilty of using steroids then using the same logic then McGuire is no doubt guilty of using steroids. Why do people seem to ignore him? Or Sosa? The two guys who brought back baseball from after the strike are getting a pass although it is obvious that they did a little more than lift a few weights to get as huge as they did. Not to mention reports of McGuire's horrible back acne. Anyone see Sosa's roid rage in the tunnel while after his turn in the home run derby a few years ago? But baseball has been very very good to him and hes a likable guy, right?

On to Palmerio... How can you say he escaped notice for his doping? The guy was forced to retire in a very ugly and embarassing way - ending a great career. The only reason you don't hear about it any more is because Palmerio isn't playing. The Orioles basically told him not to re-enter the dugout for the rest of the season.

McGuire has pretty much come out and said he was on steriods, and you'd have to be blind to think Sosa wasn't as well. I think they should all have their records stripped. No double standard for me. If you cheat, you lose your records. Heck, they banned Shoeless Joe Jackson from baseball completely, and he didn't even do anything.

Bonds might be guilty and Landis, Armstrong, Palmero, McGuire and Sosa might all be innocent. Whatever. I just want people to drop the double standard and to quit being hypocrites.

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[Guest e-bone]

Ok... see my comments in bold.

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I'm glad you don't have a double standard, but you are in the minority. If there was overwhelming physical evidence then Bonds would either be in jail or at least not playing baseball anymore. And McGwire has never said he used steroids, all has done was say he wasn't going to talk about his past while in the Congressional hearing about steroids. He may have had a couple of things written about him at the time but he has recieved no where near the attention that Bonds has. Palmerio was indeed basically forced to retire, and he recieved attention when it came out that he failed a drug test, but like McGwire he has recieved no where near the attention as Bonds while Bonds has never had a positive test or been convicted of anything.

Also, it was talked about at the time of the Bonds/Kent altercation that Kent is about the worst teammate in MLB and that he was much more of a problem that Bonds. But he's white, looks like your average Joe and Bonds has had the media hounding him for years. So of course Bonds is going to be painted the bad guy in that situation.

You may not have a double standard but that doesn't mean that the media, MLB and the vast majority of the public doesn't.

[Eagle1855]

doping in cycling? Oh the humanity! is there nothing sacred?

me and the 23 other Americans that follow the Tour de France were truly heart-broken when this news broke...

[CaribbeanGreen]

and, done...

Paper: Landis Had Synthetic Testosterone

By Associated Press

45 minutes ago

NEW YORK - Tests show that some of the testosterone in Floyd Landis' system at the Tour de France was synthetic and not naturally produced by his body as he claimed, according to a newspaper report.

The French antidoping lab testing the American cyclist's samples determined that some of the hormone came from an external source, The New York Times reported on its Web site Monday night, citing a person at the International Cycling Union with knowledge of the result.

The finding undermines the defense that Landis has stood behind since he tested positive for an elevated ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone following the 17th stage of the Tour de France, where he staged a stirring comeback in the Alps to make up for a poor performance the day before.

Looking and sounding defiant, Landis said Friday that his body's natural metabolism _ not doping of any kind _ caused the result, and that he would undergo tests to prove it.

"We will explain to the world why this is not a doping case but a natural occurrence," Landis said at a news conference in Madrid, Spain.

But after determining that Landis's ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone was more than twice the limit of 4:1, the lab performed a carbon isotope ratio test on the first of Landis's two urine samples, the person told the Times.

That test determines whether the testosterone it is natural or synthetic.

Landis officially requested the testing of his backup urine sample Monday for an elevated testosterone ratio. If the "B" test is negative, Landis would be cleared. If it's positive, which Landis' lawyers say they expect, he could be stripped of his Tour victory and banned for two years.

The Times reported that Landis was in New York on Monday night and could not be reached for comment.

[FirefightnRick]

Thanks for proving my point. Bonds hasn't been convicted of anything or failed any drug tests, yet you say he is guilty. Landis has had a positive drug test and is on the verge of having his victory stripped, and that is only "raising a red flag". Again, the double standard.

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You can't have a double standard when your comparing apples to oranges. Try again.

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

and, done...

Paper: Landis Had Synthetic Testosterone

By Associated Press

45 minutes ago

NEW YORK - Tests show that some of the testosterone in Floyd Landis' system at the Tour de France was synthetic and not naturally produced by his body as he claimed, according to a newspaper report.

The French antidoping lab testing the American cyclist's samples determined that some of the hormone came from an external source, The New York Times reported on its Web site Monday night, citing a person at the International Cycling Union with knowledge of the result.

The finding undermines the defense that Landis has stood behind since he tested positive for an elevated ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone following the 17th stage of the Tour de France, where he staged a stirring comeback in the Alps to make up for a poor performance the day before.

Looking and sounding defiant, Landis said Friday that his body's natural metabolism _ not doping of any kind _ caused the result, and that he would undergo tests to prove it.

"We will explain to the world why this is not a doping case but a natural occurrence," Landis said at a news conference in Madrid, Spain.

But after determining that Landis's ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone was more than twice the limit of 4:1, the lab performed a carbon isotope ratio test on the first of Landis's two urine samples, the person told the Times.

That test determines whether the testosterone it is natural or synthetic.

Landis officially requested the testing of his backup urine sample Monday for an elevated testosterone ratio. If the "B" test is negative, Landis would be cleared. If it's positive, which Landis' lawyers say they expect, he could be stripped of his Tour victory and banned for two years.

The Times reported that Landis was in New York on Monday night and could not be reached for comment.

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Anything is possible I suppose but it's hard to understand how you can have an elevated level of testosterone, naturally or synthetically, then 48 hours later you win the saturday time trial and turn up nothing? If this turns out so then WADA may have uncovered a new system of masking? Who knows?

Rick