ASU Band Far Superior to Green Brigade!

[Green Grenade II]

Iwas glad to know that all teams in the SunBelt tournament brought their pep bands. Arkansas State was the home team this evening. The Idians scalped us in fan support, enthusiasm and attendance. Not only that, we made us look pretty darn bad on the basketball court.

And why in the world did we have 3 cheerleaders at the game? Were the rest of them busy or something? We got out cheered, out played in the pep band territory. They dominated the Green Brigade in every aspect. I hate that.

Our dancers were great, though. At least they were a big plus for us all season and tonight was no different. I am dissapointed, for sure. But I still bleed green and always will!

I'll be at the women's game Sunday!

[NTEagle08]

I have my problems with the pep band here at North Texas as well in that they have NO variety what so ever. I was at all of the games today and I will honestly say that all the other pep bands there today were better than our's. They were actually mixing up their music, and were playing some modern music done in pep band form. Hopefully the Pep Band can learn something from the other teams in the tournament and come out next year with some variety, if not I will be dissappointed. Most of the pep band doesn't even get into the games(minus a few of them who are actually quite vocal), and I have a feeling most are only there because they get paid to be there.

[GreenBrigadeDebbie]

Yes, I am disappointed that the music selections are kinda boring. And yes, the pep band should be more enthuasiatic. But really, they are light years better than years' past. Believe it if you want. But I personally have seen the change in both the pep band and Green Brigade. And for the most part, it is a positive one.

But yeah, we got shown up tonight by the ASU band. But all is not lost for the NT pep band.

[Coffee and TV]

i like our bands, they just need to have a larger selection. Both basketball and football games.

[tonyhuntoon]

I don't remember whose band it was, I watched two games, but one of the bands did an excellent national anthem. Just fantastic.

[dogsplayinpoker]

See my post in the football fourm regarding the Green Brigade.....

[UNT_92_Fan]

tony if u are talking the half sing half play national anthem....i beg to differ on the "excellence" of it....

[bandgeek]

Wow.. you know this weekend is my last time to play my horn with a UNT ensemble before I graduate in May and then I come home and read post like this and can't believe I've been doing this for 4 years. UNT's athletic band are never (and god willing) will never be like the ASU band. If you want to bad playing for every game of the season that's fine... but the players in the UNT bands have more self respect for that.

As for cheering, we've been on our feet for every game that we've played at this season. Where the Pit Crew (who I think is the greatest thing to happen to NT basketball since sliced bread) comes mostly to mens games, we've cheered on both teams all year. For some games, we are the only ones there... and we still make noise.

Finally, the reason we play "Fly like an Eagle" and the new band cheers and the hey song all the time is because that's what we're told to play. We've talked with RV a lot about what we should be bringing to the game, and the one thing they want the most is tradition.. for us the only way to have tradition is to have those 4-5 songs that people know us by. So if you don't like it.. tough cookies. Atleast when you hear it, you'll know who's playing it.

Sorry, for getting really dark on this post, but some of the pep band got paid to play for the UA-LR mens team last night and we were shocked after the game when almost half of their fans, cheerleaders, and some of the athletic guys came over and thanked us for playing for them.. and couldn't believe how good we were. It was really nice. Anywho see you at the game today

Edited March 6, 2005 by bandgeek

[untbones]

This is my third year in the basketball band and I can't believe I'm seeing this. You guys must not no a thing about good music. ASU has one of the sloppiest bands around. All you people want is a freeking loud, obnoxious, sloppy, huge band. You don't have the slightest cluse about it. I can't even put into words the disgust I feel right now. After entertaining you for 3 years I don't even know if I want to audition next year. I was one of the few that did play for Arkansas Little Rock and I've never felt more welcome by the fans the whole 3 years here than I did in that one game. I'd like to know where these people are the rest of the season. If you want us to bring our whole marching band to a freeking basketball game maybe you should go to another school. As for now we have the BEST pep band you will find anywhere. Thanks a lot for such a dissappointing post.

Anonymous

[NTEagle08]

so wait, what makes the ASU band so awful, I am having a hard time understanding this. Isn't the job of the pep band, to pep the fans into the game? They seemed to be doing a good job at that during the ASU games that I have been to so far in the tourny. I mean some of the music that you guys do play does sound good, but does it really belong at a basketball game? I have been to all the tournament games so far and have been very impressed with the FIU and Western Kentucky bands, who have done a good job with their music selection. WKU's band did a really good job at getting their fans into the game, and getting their fans up off their feet and cheering.

Edited March 7, 2005 by NTEagle08

[GreenBrigadeDebbie]

What makes a song "basketball" music?

Upon further review of the situation, the ASU band are nothing more cheerleaders with instruments. That doesn't make the band good. Spirited yes, good musicians, not neccessarily.....UNT has some of the best musicians in the nation and yet people critize them as not being a good band because we don't yell enough or we're not wearing the right colored shirt or something lame like that. I think this is where there is the differences lie between the "common" fanbase and the pep band and in some sense the GB. No matter what the GB or pep band does, it isn't good enough, it isn't loud enough, it isn't "spirited" enough.....I have tried to accomodate the fans by letting Mr. Williams know what songs want to be heard. And all we hear back in return is how great some other band is and that we have many different issues that we need to work on. I spent 5 years in the GB and all the while I heard that we need to be more peppy, louder, have a greater song selection and so on......It is very hard to be constantly told by people who are "on your side" to constantly tell you things to get better etc while very seldomly give compliments. This is one of the main reasons why band people are very turned off towards the common fan and alum. We don't feel appreciated because we are always told that our songs suck (ok so maybe we do need a little more variety, but don't blame that on the band, it isn't our fault, we play what we are told and do a great job doing so)

So in further clarification about my last post in this thread, we got shown up by the ASU on being loud and obxnious. Otherwise the NT Pep band was better.......

[UNTLifer]

I appreciated the GB and our pep band, and I also appreciate the members coming on here and defending themselves. Prior to this post, 3 out of 11 were negative, so just chalk it up to a "few" fans that aren't happy. There's nothing wrong with that. You can't make everyone happy.

I don't think anyone on here ever questioned the talent of the musicians in our bands. They are far and away superior to any other I have heard. I think the main complaint is that we need some new music selections.

[Arkstfan]

It's a basketball game, not a concert competition.

We don't award style points in basketball to the team that dribbles the best or makes the cleanest passes. Success is measured in outscoring opponents. For pep bands, success isn't measured in musical precision but rather in the group's ability to rally the fans, that is after all why they are there.

UNT's band might kick ASU's tail in a band competition but I think you ought to listen to what your fans are saying and understand that the point at a basketball game is for the band to get the fans to be a factor in the game. Musical precision is worthless if all it inspires is a tepid reaction.

[GreenBrigadeDebbie]

I appreciated the GB and our pep band, and I also appreciate the members coming on here and defending themselves.  Prior to this post, 3 out of 11 were negative, so just chalk it up to a "few" fans that aren't happy.  There's nothing wrong with that.  You can't make everyone happy.

I don't think anyone on here ever questioned the talent of the musicians in our bands.  They are far and away superior to any other I have heard.  I think the main complaint is that we need some new music selections.

It hardly feels like a few when all the band members hear is something that they aren't doing right......If you have a complaint about the selections, belly aching on here won't get the job done. The ONLY person that change the selections up is Mr. Williams.

[GrandGreen]

An entertainer that doesn't listen to their audience is not going to be too successful. I was at the ASU-NT game and ASU had a better pep band. Notice I didn't say better musicans. It is true that the NT faithful might be underrating the NT performance because they have heard the same medley over and over, however I doubt that many thought that NT was the superior pep band. In my opinion it is certainly not the skill of the band members that is an issue but the song selection, arrangements, and very limited playlist that is used. Before the game ASU and NT were alternating playing and it did not seem long before NT started repeating the songs they had played minutes before.

As one that has been to many music school concerts and have always been amazed at the quality, I think that the athletic event bands have to recognize their audience and venue. It is not the same as playing at a concert or competition. The nuances that define a great musician versus an average one are generally not going to be recognized at a ball game. Fans want to hear music they like and that gets them excited and contributes to the game atmosphere. Fans also want a little variety in what they hear. "Fly like a Eagle" maybe played to develop a tradition but once or maybe twice a game is enough.

Imo NT has a good pep band, but it could/should be great.

[mad dog]

To be fair, it is a lot easier to pump up the side who's winning. And it's a lot easier to pump up a group who travels to another state to support their team.

untbones, please check your PM.

Edited March 7, 2005 by illuvius32

[pollock]

The NT band is the best reason to go to a basketball game.

Louder does not equal better.

[UNTLifer]

I don't mind "Fly Like An Eagle" but please don't play this 80 times a game like OU plays "Boomer Sooner" or Tennessee's band plays "Rocky Top."

[gruu]

I don't mind "Fly Like An Eagle" but please don't play this 80 times a game like OU plays "Boomer Sooner" or Tennessee's band plays "Rocky Top."

Agree... lets get a new 8 track tape with -some- new tunes on it! And don't let it loop too much...

[UNTSportsGuy]

I am a college basketball game, and haven't missed a single game all season. I don't know a thing about muisc. I can tell that when the WKU band played, people chanted and sang along. They got their crowd into the game. You all might be the greatest musicians in the world, but I wouldn't know, and don't really care becuase I am there to watch a basketball game. The band is there to add to the "experience" of the game. The other bands seem to get "into" the game, not just there to play during the game.

I am curious to as if their any diffences in the band when you guys travel to the tourny?

[THEBandMan]

So...once again, I shall speak on this network...it's only my second time to post. I usually just read and think to myself, "self, we've come a long way since I began my career (14 years ago) as a life-long, green-bleeding, mean-green-loving, constant-supporting member of the "North Texas Network." Let me give you all some background information that might clear the air.

1. This will be my only post on this topic, as I have other things to occupy my time as we (the unified team of athletics and band) continue to build, refine, and maintain our school spirit.

2. One of the comments that I heard this tournament was, "our band didn't play enough." I agree. Once the game begins, each school gets one time-out to perform. ("School" being all of the support groups.) So, when the dancers and/or cheerleaders want to perform to something, we play whatever they want. The dancers/cheerleaders perform to music that they have routines for...music that they're familiar with, so that they may perform well for YOU (our audience, fanbase, and current/former students.) Sometimes, this causes "tunes" to be repeated at the games. In addition to the one time out per half, we may perform only during the time outs that OUR team calls. If you recall, WE (mens bball team) called very few timeouts during the game. Consequently, we played less than the other school whose team called more time outs. So, this is why we didn't play much during the game. Those are the rules; therefore, we follow them.

3. I heard every band play during the tournament. I was proud of each band that performed, as they did what was appropriate for THEIR team, audience, and fan base. For those of you who are as analytical as I am about everything, you'd probably notice that the schools that had the most "spirit" were the ones who had a few cheers (both led by the cheerleader and the band) that ALL of their fans knew. The audience participated with loud and energetic responses.

What we are trying to do for OUR university is to have a few cheers and songs that CAUSE a response. Lets look at the things that the band plays often, "The Hey Song"--->for crowd response. Do YOU participate? Do YOU know that the band and cheerleaders have added "Go Mean Green" in the tune. "Fly like an Eagle"---> Do YOU participate in the yell "Go Green!" and "Go White!"? "Band Cheer 1" which is designed to prompt the audience to yell "Go Mean Green!" (3 times)..."Band Cheer 2" is designed to prompt the audience to yell "North Texas! North Texas! North Texas, Fight!"....the song "Go Mean Green" (aka "Go Big Blue" [Michigan]...everyone plays it.) The cheerleaders and dancers have several cheers that they begin that very few of our fans respond to. My FAVORITE SONG...our "Fight Song"...do you YELL the words in the middle? Do you do the body gestures? (making the letters UNT)

4. As far as what the band plays, yes, those are my decisions. We all noticed many schools that played songs from the radio, theme songs to various tv shows, etc. Every piece that is performed in public has to have official permission granted from the copyright holders to create an arrangement, and to perform the arrangement. The penalty for not following the copyright is several thousands of dollars per occurance. MANY schools simply ignore this rule because it's rare that anyone gets penalized. BUT, it does happen. North Texas will NEVER be sued for copyright infringement while I'm the director. The bottom line is that most schools break the LAW by playing most of what they play. We will NOT do that.

For those of you who were on this network during football season, the idea came up that we should play the Super Mario Brothers theme for Jamario. I looked into it, permission was denied. We didn't play it. That's the appropriate thing to do. While I would very much like to play the theme songs to "The Price is Right," or "The A-team," the Dave Matthews Band music, or that Beyonce (sp?) song, until we can perform those legally, we won't. While I don't mean for this to be a finger-pointing message, I would bet money that NONE of the schools who played that music had permission.

I'm sure some of you at this point don't care about this argument, and you couldn't care less about copyright violators. I do; we will continue to stay in compliance with the law.

Let me point out a few positive comments that I heard throughout this tournament. One of our fans pointed out how "classy" our band is. That's awesome...thank you to whoever the lady is who said this. The Athletic Director for Arkansas-Little Rock personally thanked us for contributing to their game (some of our band members played for their game because they couldn't afford to bring their band to the tournament). The UA-LR cheerleaders and cheer coach thanked us for taking time out of our "day off" to help make this game more memorable for their students.

EVERY pep band director at the tournament complimented our band on our music, the performance, the professionalism, and the spirit that our band gives. Several have asked to borrow music from OUR pep band book, because they liked our selections and arrangements. (see copyright issues above.) Some asked when OUR practices were so that THEIR students could watch US!

So, while I hear the comments that you all are making about music selection, etc., let me recap. 1. I hear your comments. 2. Every year we add more music to the pep band folder. 3. We will continue to play the music that has meaning for OUR university. 4. We will continue to uphold the integrity (and class) that people respect and expect from THE University of North Texas. 5. We will CONTINUE to, first and foremost, do what we can to support and uplift our ATHLETES.

What's interesting to me is that when I talk to my band director friends at other schools (like A&M, OU, OSU, Tech) they mention that most of their fans complain when they don't play enough of their school spirit songs. Here, at OUR university, I get complaints when we play them too much. interesting...perhaps a paradigm shift is necessary.

Finally, just a few of my own thoughts that are not necessarily reactionary to the posts on this network...Maybe instead of complaining about how the band isn't as "peppy" as it "should be," maybe WE should all join the band, cheerleaders, pit-crew, and dancers on EVERYTHING that we do to provide "atmosphere" for the game. Maybe WE should actively work on bringing more people to the games (indoors and outdoors), to have more people to PARTICIPATE.

I wrote earlier that we've come a long way since I started here as an undergrad. It's true. When I started as a freshman, we would have fewer than 1,000 people at ANY home football game, and fewer than 300 people at bball games. A lot has changed in recent years, much in part to Rick V., his athletics team, and a changing culture in the "North Texas Network." Now that WE are starting to pay attention to our teams, I think it's normal and natural that we'll have these growing pains. Maybe we should have a more productive use of our time and energy. Maybe we should figure out how to get more people involved in OUR university. Maybe we shouldn't say/do/imply things that weaken US!

We can do this, by simple participation. To be blunt, stand up during the games; cheer with the band, dancers, cheerleaders, pit crew, talons, etc. Stand up, clap, and do the gestures during the "Fight Song;" don't leave before the "Alma Mater" is played. SING THE WORDS TO THE "FIGHT SONG" AND "ALMA MATER!"

I realize that there might be some who think that I (or this post) is full of __fill in the blank___, BUT before you blast it, consider : "am I helping the cause?" If not, save it! :-)

I have so much respect for my "band kids", the dancers, cheerleaders, talons, and pit-crew....because it's hard to stand up and "...give a cheer for U of NT" when you're often the only ones doing it.

It takes time to build tradition. That's what we're doing now. These schools that rocked the house at the tournament, at the bowl games, at our "away" games...they've been doing this for years and years. (In December, I asked the marching band director at the University of Michigan what they do to get the crowd involved. His reply was, "the same things that we've been doing for a hundred years.") It takes time to build what we all want; in my opinion we're still in our infancy. My advice: be patient, be a part of the growth, be a part of the tradition, be a part of the solution.

To those loyal supporters of UNT and its student athletes and performers----YOU ROCK!

Respectfully,

Nick "The Band Director" Williams

Edited March 9, 2005 by THEBandMan

[UNT_92_Fan]

Hell of a Post....thats why i like that Guy...

Nick the Pit Crew apprieciates the work the band does and we THANK you for "helpin" us with some of our "cheers" this year!!!! without the help of your kids we would have prolly looked ridiuclous on some of the chants....

[JayDub]

I have so much respect for my "band kids", the dancers, cheerleaders, talons, and pit-crew....because it's hard to stand up and "...give a cheer for U of NT" when you're often the only ones doing it.

Damn Skippy...I can't stand it when we're shooting free throws and only the PitCrew, the Band, the Talons, & the cheerleaders are the only ones throwing up the Eagle Claw.

Our band is awesome...thanks Nick.

Edited March 9, 2005 by JayDub

[GreenBrigadeDebbie]

Mr. Williams, great post. You always had a way with words and knew how to say what you mean. Great post man....Great post.