A Few Sun Belt Wins

KRAM1 · November 18, 2010

Seems to me that Coach Dickey took the Mean Green to the last few bowl games it has played in by focusing on conference wins. In fact, did the Mean Green not have a losing season one year when it went to the New Orleans Bowl after winning the SBC? I don't think the HC is responsible for the conference affiliation, but i think he is responsible for whether the team wins the conference or not. Like several other have said, I cannot get fired up about the SBC, but it is the Mean Green's home conference, and that in itself makes it important. No Mean Green HC in my time (other than Fry) has had much luck beating "bigger" out of conference foes. To say any Mean green HC should be judged on whether or not he beats OU, Texas, OSU, K State, Tennessee, etc. is really not living in reality. The Mean Green HC SHOULD be judged on his book of work in the SBC and other similar schools played from outside the SBC such as Rice, Navy, Army, Ohio, etc., etc., etc.

Coach Canales is playing the schedule he has been given and he seems to be doing a pretty darn good job of creating some WINS for the first time in awhile. I could care less if others here want Coach Canales, Jim Leavitt, Mike Leach or the latest hot kid on the block as the next HC. It's all simply one person's preference over an other's. Each worth the same in "opinion value". There are a couple of opinions that do count and that would be RV, Pres. Laine and Chuck N it seems. They will do their job the best that they can, and UNT will have its new HC.

And, guess what? That HC will probably be given a SBC schedule to work. I am pretty much thinking that SBC schedule is important, and that the next HC will be judged a good bit by what he is able to do against the other teams in the SBC. If TD had won the SBC and lost every other game, chances are, he would still be the HC of the Mean Green. Seems like that's pretty important to me. Don't discount what Coach Canales is doing against SBC competition. It would be foolish to do so and might set you up to be disappointed.

GO MEAN GREEN!

PlummMeanGreen · November 18, 2010

Plum,

Whether the SBC is "Not Good" enough to have a team ranked in the Top 25 or Top 50 is irrelevant. That is the conference we are in, and the wins or losses in your own conference is the most important to a team and program. Just look at Michigan and Rich Rodriguez, he has won a lot of his OOC games and lost most Big 10 games and that is why he is on the hot seat. Am I trying to compare the Big 10 to the SBC, absolutely not. My point is the most important wins that a team can have is in Conference Games....period! And until UNT is no longer in the SBC, focusing on beating SBC teams should be priority #1. Conference Championships!!

Sun Belt wins that produced 4 bowls for Dickey did not get him "ONE" job interview from a upper level program. So we see what respect the rest of the FBS has for Sun Belt wins, now don't we?

Still.....who would hire a coach based on the success of beating under .500 'Belt schools who'd be in their right (hopefully) upwardly mobile mind? :blink: It's an idea that some small group has beat the drum to death and promoted among themselves but I don't think our new Prez' will even address the possibility of it. Yet the idea of doing that is so damn preposterous and reeks of us doing what we've done the last 6 hires at UNT. Do we want to keep doing what has made us unsuccessful at North Texas?

As a UNT Alum it embarrasses the hell out of me that some (not near enough from all accounts) are even mildly hinting at doing this. If he got the job, does his goons still stick around on this board to heckle us when he loses a game?

But a school that still says it wants to go up to the next level does not use schools at the level we profess we want to not be associated with to give out yet another 5 year contract. We just ate the contract of the last person who used to be Coach Canales boss as I recall and for whom he was TDodge's O.C for the first half of this season, too.

BUT....if Coach C is not even remotely being considered (which many believe but are not on this board), I'd be one mad sumbich' if I were in the Canales Camp because I might feel like he would have been being led down the primrose lane of deceit.

FWIW, leadership can usually prevent the aforementioned kind of thing from happening and IMHO, Dodge's coaching staff should have been told post-Dodge firing that no one on this staff would be considered for HFC because............UNT was going another direction that actually worked before but had been (strangely) put on the shelf for close to 40 years now. :ph34r:

GMG!

PS: Have a nice afternoon, I'm outta' here till tonight.

Edited November 18, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

SleepingGiantsFan · November 18, 2010

So you're willing to put the whole football program on his shoulders for the next say....3-5 years just because he beat a couple of bad SBC teams and had just one win against a decent not by no means stellar K-State team?

That is almost just as worse than hiring a high school coach to be our HFC.

Just for the heck of it I pulled out my trusty Phil Steele's mag last night and read up on you guys. Steele had UNT as one of his most improved teams for 2010 based on 17 returning starters and several close losses last year. He picked UNT to become bowl eligible. So I haven't followed your team closely this year but it sure sounds like before he was shown the door, Todd Dodge was a Total Dud.

SAM Coach · November 18, 2010

SAM Coach, are you still on the same kick? If we were any FBS league except the SBC (which even most its top teams are down this season) conference wins might pack more punch --but in 10 years of the SBC we have (still) not had any of our schools in the Top 25 and I'm not sure even Top 50 (although I stand to be corrected on that one).

So just sue us, SAM Coach, because Harry's polls still say most NT Exes want to go another direction with this hire. We've tried all the others the last 6 hires. Can you accept that w/o making all this so personal to (it seems) mostly you?

Be around Mean Green football since the early 1970's and then try to understand where some of us are coming from, OK?

GMG!

"SAM Coach, are you still on the same kick?"

-PlummMeanGreen

No Jim...I'm not on the same kick. But, what else can a coach do if it's not win games? Lose them! Would that be more acceptable? You obviously don't care about wins or losses because neither pleases you. Your entire agenda is transparent and has nothing to do with football. Why else would you publicly scoff at your school for winning games. What a shame!

"If we were any FBS league except the SBC (which even most its top teams are down this season) conference wins might pack more punch --but in 10 years of the SBC"

-PlummMeanGreen

And if Dorothy's Aunt Em had balls she'd be Uncle Em! But guess what? She didn't; and UNT does play in the SBC

"Be around Mean Green football since the early 1970's and then try to understand where some of us are coming from"

-PlummMeanGreen

See that's the problem right there! We've moved on and you're still stuck back in 70's

Edited November 18, 2010 by SAM Coach

jimbob · November 18, 2010

team spirit rises
is coach chico our savior
or a place holder

My guess is he is already the guy and a win at ULM will solidify it. K-State win is out of the question IMHO.

I'm hearing that many of the front runners in the early stages have fallen by the wayside and that very few new ones have emerged because Canales has won some games with a less than healthy team that really loves playing for him.

VideoEagle · November 18, 2010

Back To La Tech Who We Get Beat Out On Too Many Times On Texas HS Football Products:
The Bulldogs beat Alabama 2 years in a row if memory serves (and numerous others true Big Boy schools for that matter).

GMG!

La Tech beat 'Bama in 97 and in 99. Since 2000 they are 3-26 against schools from AQ conferences with only 1 of those win since 2004. In the last 10 years, La Tech has a total of 2 more wins against schools from AQ conferences than NT does. Two (2), that's all. They win the "which midget is the tallest contest" between us.

Rudy · November 18, 2010

I see what you did...

So the buick is broken down, but being taken out of the garage since the Dodge and Ford are gone.

Are there any other coaches with automobile names out there that we could hire? (Please don't tell me there's someone named Yugo).

I wonder what the Fabulous Thunderbirds are doing? Oh wait, they don't have any HC experience.

Is there a Coach Caprice out there?

PlummMeanGreen · November 18, 2010

"SAM Coach, are you still on the same kick?"
-PlummMeanGreen

No Jim...I'm not on the same kick. But, what else can a coach do if it's not win games? Lose them! Would that be more acceptable? You obviously don't care about wins or losses because neither pleases you. Your entire agenda is transparent and has nothing to do with football. Why else would you publicly scoff at your school for winning games. What a shame!

"If we were any FBS league except the SBC (which even most its top teams are down this season) conference wins might pack more punch --but in 10 years of the SBC"
-PlummMeanGreen

And if Dorothy's Aunt Em had balls she'd be Uncle Em! But guess what? She didn't; and UNT does play in the SBC

"Be around Mean Green football since the early 1970's and then try to understand where some of us are coming from"
-PlummMeanGreen

See that's the problem right there! We've moved on and you're still stuck back in 70's

Back to the old post stalking tactics of the Canales Canaries, I see. You should begin to detect a trend that it is not working with me.

And the Sun Belt is all we have to judge by--yet losing SBC schools to determine a major financial (probably) 5 year contract at a school we'd like to think has some fiscal responsibility skills? We just recently ate another unfulfilled contract--how many time can we keep doing that till someone has to answer to that?

And.......the SBC is all we have? Even more the reason many want one with more pedigree and actually FBS HFC' experience, ie, skins on the wall to get us out of this freakin' conference that has made too many thinking "we po' but proud" but after all, we're North Texas of the Sun Belt where we not supposed to think much higher than that?

So when your dad (or is it uncle) does not get the UNT job, what town will all this circus act go to next? And BTW, it is you and your posts that have made me change my mind period about your kin. Has Denton become a Mormon mission for your clan or what? :rolleyes:

I think if he's hired then others would eventually get fired truth be known because of what many (not on this board, of course) would think without a doubt would be in a long chain of other muffed up hires, yet this would top them all--and they've had more than a couple if you can trust what the media guides all seem to point out. (And some at UNT can't understand why DFW alums still all these decades later won't support this charade).

70's? A few at UNT can only dream of getting back to the Mean Joe Greene days or Fry era--I guess I'm one of them; in fact, some on this board would like to not have to compare now with either of those 2 eras in light of what they've recieved of late (w/o anyone even offering a jar of vaseline to help ease the pain, either). The things we have been asked to accept from some UNT officials which has not produced much in the over. 500 is a feat in itself. In fact, some have called it more a snow job than a feat.

Business Owners: Would you run your business and make decisions for your business the way some of you are now wanting UNT to run its business with this "only" candidate to show interest and pull a knee jerk hire based on this amazing "self entitlement" with no viable long term record at any collegiate stop which is usually the case with journeymen football coaches? Do we still really want to buy the first car we see w/o maybe checking out 2 or 3 others that really might better suit our purposes?

We can all talk about how a 25 year journeyman football coach will soon be in the NCAA Coaches Hallof Fame all we want, but what other serious NCAA school in the state of Texas of whom you've followed their hiring histories would even consider what would be the all time joke is on us if I can believe several of non North Texas friends in Dallas and Fort Worth? (They are shaking their heads in disbelief with even the remotest chance that UNT powers would hire anyone with this 25 year resume--one might also wonder what the real bonafide Texas sports media would have to say if UNT splits its britches yet one more time with another "off the wall" kind of hire).

Don't forget all of you who have posted this non-stop: Perception Is Reality....and in Texas its even more reality when it comes to college athletics.

GMG!

Edited November 18, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

Monkeypox · November 19, 2010

I'm just trying to get clarity. Do SBC wins count or not for the next coach? This has nothing to do with Canales, because I assume no one on here would have different expectations for a new coach than they do an interim who just got the job. It has to do with expectations. If Leavitt comes in, goes 9-3 (8-0 in conference), then he's had a bad year, because the metric is only non-conference opponents, so at best he's 1-3. And that's only if the 1 non-conference win was a good team, and not one that we deem we "should" beat, like Army or Ball State or someone.

So then how many years will it take us to get to where we can judge this next coach, since we can't count games within the conference where we currently reside? That could take a while.

Now, on the other hand, if someone like Leavitt comes in here and goes 3-9 (0-8 SBC), then he's had a great year, because he won the games that matter (OOC games), and the ones he lost don't count. I can't count games as losses if I'm not allowed to count them as wins.

Okay, that's maybe too hyperbolic.

Regardless, what I seem to be hearing is that our new coach should go at LEAST 11-1 if he expects to have credit for a winning season. That's 8-0 SBC, 3-1 OOC. Or, we could be nice and expect him to break even on the real games, 10-2 (2-2 OOC), assuming, of course, that he doesn't have an Army or Rice on the schedule, because those are teams we SHOULD beat.

Again, I don't really care if Canales gets the job, if that's who the University feels is best suited. I have my personal preferences, but I'm no AD. I just think it's silly to say that what our team is doing right now doesn't count. It's an insult to the interim coach and the players, IMO.

I was one of the critics of Dickey, based on his lack of OOC success, so I understand the basic argument. I felt like we had achieved all we could as the bully of the weak sisters of the SBC. And that's still true. We weren't going anywhere JUST beating the Belt, and the Sun Belt still won't get you any press. But you still have to win the Sun Belt FIRST. Otherwise, you get press like "UT GETS UPSET BY TERRIBLE SUN BELT TEAM!!!" and all it does is point to the failures of the big school, and not the successes of the small one.

Sadly, however, at this point in time, we have our work cut out for us just to make it back to the level of competing for a Sun Belt regularly. And I mean regularly, not competing in year one, then struggling the rest of the way out. Many coaches (and this could possibly be the case with our new interim) immediately turn a team around in the first couple of year, before reverting back to the status quo. People build them up after that first year, and then conveniently forget them by year 3 or 4, when they're on the hot seat.

PlummMeanGreen · November 19, 2010

This from one of our non-North Texas alum friends:

"I checked my Phil Steele's mag last night. Are you aware Steele picked UNT as one of his most improved teams this year based on among other things having 17 returning starters? He predicted you would be bowl eligible. So I sure have to wonder whether Canales doesn't look really good mainly because he replaced a Not Ready for Primetime guy.

If Canales gets the job, you guys who are a bit more objective about him may want to demand to know who Neinas recommended. Nothing would hoist your AD on his own petard more than finding out, as our alums did, that our AD didn't go with Neinas' recommendation and then the guy he hired instead turned out to be a dud. Of course, Neinas may actually recommend Canales, but that would be a big surprise to me."

Edited November 19, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

November 19, 2010

Direct quote from Lance Dunbar, "We are playing for him right now. We respect him and trust him and we want him to be our next head coach."

Direct quote from Brandon Akpunku, "Everyone loves this guy and he makes the game fun. He gets us excited about playing football and makes us believe we can win. Everyone wants him to be here next year so we are doing everything we can to get him the job."

Direct quote from Riley Dodge, "He is a high-energy guy with passion. He did not recruit me, but he makes me feel like he did. He takes a personal interest in each one of us and he is a guy we all want to play for."

This is not about who we want as fans, it's about who gets the players to play at the highest level and makes this program a winner again.

PlummMeanGreen · November 19, 2010

Direct quote from Lance Dunbar, "We are playing for him right now. We respect him and trust him and we want him to be our next head coach."

Direct quote from Brandon Akpunku, "Everyone loves this guy and he makes the game fun. He gets us excited about playing football and makes us believe we can win. Everyone wants him to be here next year so we are doing everything we can to get him the job."

Direct quote from Riley Dodge, "He is a high-energy guy with passion. He did not recruit me, but he makes me feel like he did. He takes a personal interest in each one of us and he is a guy we all want to play for."

This is not about who we want as fans, it's about who gets the players to play at the highest level and makes this program a winner again.

This is typical. Haven't many of us who follow Texas college sports seen this happen at other schools, but......... did you expect any of our players to say " we play for him right now but can't wait till we move over to the new stadium with a new era and a new coach?"

Green Flag? If Neinas is being given a bunch of money by our retaining him (again) in the last few days but only came back and recommended Chico, that would be a mild shock (but not so much with our hiring history) but worse this most recent retaining of Neinas would be a terrific waste of money to make a "local" search.

You Don't Threaten Your Employer By Leaving Cause He'd Probably Say: See ya'!

And You Don't Threaten Your College If You Demand This or That, Either:

You will sometimes find a few players who will also threaten to leave if they don't hire said coach and the response to that group from UNT or any school's powers would probably be: "Don't let the door hit ya' where the Good Lord split ya'."

These are still college kids with college kids emotions and hasn't every bit of this whole damn charade been predicated thus far by.............emotion?

Good leadership could have prevented every bit of this from happening, unless they are just fun'nin' around with UNT posters on GMG.com; by the way, not a favorite forum from 99.9% over at the UNT Athletic Dept. :ph34r:

The Quick Healing First Meeting: Usually after a new HFC has his first meeting with a team they are usually on board with a bright new future ahead. College kids moods change about as often as posters on this board. Still will be interested to see some switch-overs if and when UNT says "Coach Known By Many" has applied and really wants our job; you know, wants our job about as badly as Chico wants it, too?

Prediction: Dr. Rawlins will have to take the bull by the horns and make this hire based on our past muck-ups--Jitter Nolen did the same with Fry but the locals back then who might have been on a search committee would have never pulled the Fry trigger. Maybe just another reason Rawlins had the "interim" taken from his title last week? :rolleyes:

Edited November 19, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

November 19, 2010

This is typical. Seen it happen at other schools in fact but......... Did you expect any of our players to say " we play for him right now but can't wait till we move over to the new stadium with a new era and a new coach?"

If Neinas is being given a bunch of money to recommend Chico, that would be a mild shock (but not so much with our hiring history) but worse this most recent retaining of Neinas would be a terrific waste of money.

You Don't Threaten Your Employer By Leaving Cause He'd Probably Say: See ya'! And You Don't Threaten Your College If They Don't Do This or That, Either:

You will sometimes find a few players who will also threaten to leave if they don't hire said coach and the response to that group would proably be: "Don't let the door hit you where the Good Lord split you." These are still college kids with college kids emotions and hasn't every bit of this whole damn charade been predicated thus far by.............emotion? Leadership could have prevented every bit of this from happening.

I don't expect them to say they don't want him, but they don't have to come out and adamantly say they want him either, especially when one of them is the kid whose dad lost his job.

PlummMeanGreen · November 19, 2010

I don't expect them to say they don't want him, but they don't have to come out and adamantly say they want him either, especially when one of them is the kid whose dad lost his job.

Maybe...but even more telling on this whole episode is this:

Just saw the DRC blog that said North Texas will pay Chuck Neinas $40,000 plus expenses to find North Texas a new football coach.

Chuck Neinas reputation is somewhat on the line here for other schools like North Texas to use his services in the future but.............if you were Neinas, what kind of unifying hire would you suggest? Jeez, $40,000 plus expenses!

November 19, 2010

IMHO that $40,000 is a waste of money. I like Canales, but even if I didn't, everyone knows who the guys are. Neinas is simply stealing 40-grand.

PlummMeanGreen · November 19, 2010

IMHO that $40,000 is a waste of money. I like Canales, but even if I didn't, everyone knows who the guys are. Neinas is simply stealing 40-grand.

Actually, I think that the UNT new coach search process has just now officially begun to be honest.

And "the guys" list you seem to think is set (from a college smack board to boot) will suddenly become larger till they cull it to the one that best fits North Texas in its most crucial hire in history in light of the high stakes of the marketing that will need to be UNT's most successful in its history as well.

UNT needs to be able to promote itself to the point that it will receive the single-most contribution of $30,000,000 (which is what the naming rights of our new stadium is). This has never been a business as usual hire in Denton; at least, the kind that having Fouts Field as our home would most times produce for us.

And like GrayEagle recently posted, I, too, am very grateful to Todd Dodge who in his first week at UNT said "we must get a new stadium at North Texas to compete." I don't think we would have this stadium happening now if he hadn't said that 4 years ago.

GMG!

Edited November 19, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen