Just Venting

[Aldo]

3 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

It's great he won the conference he was in. I'm just saying that doesn't make him a great coach like Fry and Mitchell. He was an average coach at best, same as McCarney.

Not sure we are arguing who was a better coach, what is an effective run pass ratio, who had better play calling, who did better recruiting.

It's about winz, titles, and bowls, and Dickey had more of them than the next 2.

Nearly 20 years later that scoreboard is all I see, but I'd rather appreciate the past and focus on a better future. I would LOVE to have more titles.

[Cr1028]

1 hour ago, Aldo said:

Not sure we are arguing who was a better coach, what is an effective run pass ratio, who had better play calling, who did better recruiting.

It's about winz, titles, and bowls, and Dickey had more of them than the next 2.

Nearly 20 years later that scoreboard is all I see, but I'd rather appreciate the past and focus on a better future. I would LOVE to have more titles.

Let me put it another way. The Houston Texans have won the AFC south the past two seasons with a 9-7 record, not because Bill O'Brien is a good coach or because the Texans are a good team. They win the division because of how bad the other teams in their division are. It is great they win it but understand that if they play in ANY other AFC division, they aren't even a playoff team, let alone conference champions. Being in a bad conference isn't something to go puff your chest out about.

As I have said before, if the Sun Belt is not created Dickey never wins a single conference championship. Tell me he would've beat Boise just once between 2001-2004, if he wouldn't, then he only won those championships because of the startup conference full of former-FCS schools and FBS programs nobody else wanted. Other than luck, Dickey would have zero titles. We can celebrate the 2001-2004 teams, that's fine, but don't celebrate Dickey as a good coach, because he wasn't. Division 1 ADs knew it, and that's why he was still with us after 4 consecutive titles and 25 straight conference wins. They knew those wins didn't matter because he made a career out of beating up on bad teams, plain and simple. Celebrate the players, not Dickey or Flanigan for that matter.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Cr1028

[Aldo]

16 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Let me put it another way. The Houston Texans have won the AFC south the past two seasons with a 9-7 record, not because Bill O'Brien is a good coach or because the Texans are a good team. They win the division because of how bad the other teams in their division are. It is great they win it but understand that if they play in ANY other AFC division, they aren't even a playoff team, let alone conference champions. Being in a bad conference isn't something to go puff your chest out.

As I have said before, if the Sun Belt is not created Dickey never wins a single conference championship. Tell me he would've beat Boise just once between 2001-2004, if he wouldn't, then he only won those championships because of the startup conference full of former-FCS schools and FBS programs nobody else wanted. Other than luck, Dickey would have zero titles. We can celebrate the 2001-2004 teams, that's fine, but don't celebrate Dickey as a good coach, because he wasn't. Division 1 ADs knew it, and that's why he was still with us after 4 consecutive titles and 25 straight conference wins. They knew those wins didn't matter because he made a career out of beating up on bad teams, plain and simple. Celebrate the players, not Dickey or Flanigan for that matter.

Can't move the target. North Texas was in the Sun Belt. And North Texas won the Sun Belt. A lot. Under Dickey. Gotta keep in context. So what if he couldn't win in MWC or Big East or Big 12. I don't care, we aren't in those conferences (tho thank you for all that money).

I'm not advocating (as I already said) that DD is a great coach. Just saying he won a lot and he deserves credit, not "well but" arguments to delegitimize our own conference titles and bowl appearances.

You wanted wins, you had them, but now let's put and asterisk on them? No thanks.

I'm not going to prop up hypotheticals to build my argument. He won, plain and simple. Sun Belt sucked? Sure. But he won.

Who are these bowl eligible teams he couldn't beat? Let's take a sampling (and a guess at them being bowl eligible). Not sure many North Texas teams could.

• TCU
• Alabama
• Texas
• Tech
• Oklahoma
• USF
• Arizona
• Arkansas
• Colorado
• Baylor
• K State

[Cr1028]

3 minutes ago, Aldo said:

Can't move the target. North Texas was in the Sun Belt. And North Texas won the Sun Belt. A lot. Under Dickey. Gotta keep in context. So what if he couldn't win in MWC or Big East or Big 12. I don't care, we aren't in those conferences (tho thank you for all that money).

I guess we should drop down to the Sun Belt again for some cheap wins then since who you beat no longer matters.

3 minutes ago, Aldo said:

Who are these bowl eligible teams he couldn't beat? Let's take a sampling (and a guess at them being bowl eligible). Not sure many North Texas teams could.

• TCU
• Alabama
• Texas
• Tech
• Oklahoma
• USF
• Arizona
• Arkansas
• Colorado
• Baylor
• K State

What about Troy, ULM, and FAU?

 

The '01 TCU team was 6-6 and played in CUSA. The '02 Arizona team was 4-8. The '03 Air Force team was 7-5 in the MWC. The '04 Baylor team was (3-8). Not all the teams you listed were the juggernauts then that they are today.

[Aldo]

Just now, Cr1028 said:

I guess we should drop down to the Sun Belt again for some cheap wins then since who you beat no longer matters.

Not sure that makes any sense, there's a logical fallacy in there some where.

We were a Sun Belt team with Sun Belt-level recruits competing against Sun Belt teams. Which those DD teams did well against.

Now we're a CUSA trying to get CUSA-level recruits to beat CUSA-level teams.

2 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

What about Troy, ULM, and FAU?

What about them? They certainly beat us, but in general we beat Sun Belt teams more often than not.

3 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

The '01 TCU team was 6-6 and played in CUSA. The '02 Arizona team was 4-8. The '03 Air Force team was 7-5 in the MWC. The '04 Baylor team was (3-8). Not all the teams you listed were the juggernauts then that they are today.

Those were still better teams in better conferences with better recruits that we generally got paid to play. McCarney couldn't beat Texas. Does that make him bad? Not because of that. He got us a bowl win and we will thank him historically for reaching that rare feat (here).

______________________________

Look: sure those were not "quality" wins in the Sun Belt. We didn't have a choice being a member of the Sun Belt. But they were wins. That's all I'm saying.

Dodge couldn't manage to win in the Sun Belt.

[greenminer]

1 hour ago, Cr1028 said:

As I have said before, if the Sun Belt is not created Dickey never wins a single conference championship. Tell me he would've beat Boise just once between 2001-2004, if he wouldn't, then he only won those championships because of the startup conference full of former-FCS schools and FBS programs nobody else wanted. Other than luck, Dickey would have zero titles. We can celebrate the 2001-2004 teams, that's fine, but don't celebrate Dickey as a good coach, because he wasn't. Division 1 ADs knew it, and that's why he was still with us after 4 consecutive titles and 25 straight conference wins. They knew those wins didn't matter because he made a career out of beating up on bad teams, plain and simple. Celebrate the players, not Dickey or Flanigan for that matter.

Why not only celebrate Booger, because maybe the rest of the team doesn't win those titles without him?

You need to reconsider how important this debate is.  Personally, I think it is silly.

Edited February 24, 2017 by greenminer

[Aldo]

42 minutes ago, greenminer said:

You need to reconsider how important this debate is. 

Though I will say I appreciate that we are keeping it a healthy debate and not picking or insulting.

[Cr1028]

22 minutes ago, Aldo said:

Though I will say I appreciate that we are keeping it a healthy debate and not picking or insulting.

Agreed.

[Cr1028]

1 hour ago, Aldo said:

Look: sure those were not "quality" wins in the Sun Belt. We didn't have a choice being a member of the Sun Belt. But they were wins. That's all I'm saying.

I'd agree with that. I just view the 2001-2004 conference games as games we were supposed to win, not something we rose to, similar to when we bring in BethuneCookman(I choose to forget Portland). We rose to beat Cincy in the bowl game. I'll give you that one for sure.

1 hour ago, Aldo said:

Dodge couldn't manage to win in the Sun Belt.

The Belt was different by the time Dodge showed up. Dickey had already shown he couldn't win the Belt anymore once Troy and FAU replaced Idaho and Utah State. 

1 hour ago, greenminer said:

Why not only celebrate Booger, because maybe the rest of the team doesn't win those titles without him?

Well, except for 2004 after he graduated but I get your point. Booger was 2nd All-BigWest as a freshman, and 1st All-SunBelt the next 3 years. He was definitely a gamechanger. I'm hoping we can get Hambone or @Cooley's nephew to do the same.