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It takes time. Stay interested. Be positive. Talk it up. Wear the green.

Canales had one of his best games in a while...lots of misdirection and deception. Discipline on this team is an asset...complete departure from the last number of years. Penalties greatly reduced. Taking the clock down to 3 seconds every down really shortened the game. It gives you the best chance to stay "close" against a better team on the road. It is an absolute joy to play in a sold out house on the road, and it be quieter than a NT home game in November....in the rain. I expect to be treated in three ways by the fan base when we are on the road (examples below): LSU: spit on, hated ULL: like you are a Thanksgiving guest at your long-lost cousin...you leave well-fed, and with friends you never knew you had. KSU: mostly indifference until about 30 minutes before game time....walking around the tailgate area, most just ignored us or wondered why we weren't wearing purple. Later we got into some good conversations...some fans knew we may play in the NIT. Truly a great college game day in Manhattan...College Station-lite, which is a good thing to me. Similar atmosphere, but about 60% the size. Great fans, salt of the earth. Students in their seats an hour before game time. Almost everyone in the stadium wore purple. One lady apparently didn't get the memo...she wore a pink KState shirt. Pregame: Read the preamble to, I believe, the Constitution an​d the Declaration of Independence, then the Pledge of Allegiance, then the National Anthem...real salt of the earth folks in Kansas. If I was born in Kansas, I would probably be a better fit at KState vs. KU. Very subdued crowd filing out of Snyder Family Stadium, but my favorite comment from one of their fans: "You guys would definitely beat Miami." During the THREE hour post-game show, they had excellent post-game analysis, intelligent fan phone calls, insightful PLAYER interviews, i.e. describing particular plays, and their roles in said plays, etc. Snyder's post-game presser went about 15 minutes, and was sponsored by AT&T. Both coach and players recognized Dan McCarney as a great coach, who had his team better prepared than KState. Some discussion that they probably overlooked NT and took this game for granted, but overall you heard lots of credit for the NT game plan, coaches and players. I have heard a number of references to the face mask on the DT sack, but did anyone see if Brelon face masked the tackler during the first half. KState fan was not happy, but I didn't see it. KState replays EVERY play, even when controversial. Everyone in the end zone turns around to see the "Official review" replays, and reacts accordingly. Why don't we show controversial plays on our replays? On the reviewed TD pass, KState fans yelled loudly expecting the overturn after the first angle showed the catch, but one replay faced the WR, and has been discussed elsewhere, the WR appeared to initially grab the ball up high, then brought it down to control the ball. I thought the initial "catch" wasn't controlled until he brought it down, and by then was out of bounds. Fan response appeared to question the catch at that point. They showed three angles on the catch during the review. They showed the one I described once and the other two angles, from further away, twice. Finally, the WR slapped the ball after the catch in disgust, I thought acknowledging he didn't catch the ball, but he may have done it in response to the incomplete call. On the QB TD review, I thought he reached out and hit his lineman's helmet, preventing the ball from crossing the line. KState had already sent out their FG unit before the Review was called. I think the KState fan base would be much more devastated by a loss to NT in hoops. This is the furthest into the game I can remember playing a ranked opponent, and thinking "we still have a chance at this." Even if you think you have a chance at beating a highly-ranked opponent on the road, it isn't likely to happen when you have the number of special teams breakdowns we did. Playing as far off their receivers creates space that their athleticism at WR exposed after the catch. Jamming their receivers, disrupting routs, might have been the better strategy, had we been able to get within a zip code of their QB. I can only remember two of DT's three in completes: one he wisely threw away and Delgado's drop on a catchable, though high, ball. Brelon caught one at his feet that no one would have been surprised had the dropped it. We stayed in Wichita last night, 2.5 hours from Manhattan. The Wichita newspaper gave the equivalent of a little more than one full page of the sports section to the KState game...saying something with competition from KU and KC Chief game day coverage. I received texts from friends in KC, Atlanta, Fayetteville AR, Philadelphia and Washington DC, during and after the game, noting our strong performance in the game. I rarely get texts during SBC games, regardless of outcome. I met one NT dad in the tailgate section, by chance. Word from his son is that the players believe in their coaches, and that he feels the team will continue to show improvement this season and beyond. Always nice to hear player perspective. A realtor I spoke to in my parking my area told me about the total turnaround that Manhattan has experienced in the Snyder era. It used to be a sleepy little town, he described, but the "investment" the school has made in winning football has increased the desire to live in Manhattan. Property rates have gone up, the quality of housing has improved. More people means more choice in restaurants, better city services, more students, etc. The value of being isolated cannot be overstated...I have always wished Denton was another 50 miles further from DFW. When I first heard Coach MacCarney throw out the "we expect to win these games, we hate to lose" mantra, I thought it was coach speak. It is refreshing to know he believes it and his players do also. It makes a huge difference, and it is the first time I can remember hearing it from one of our coaches since, maybe, Corky (?). GMG

The rule was changed this year to allow up to three replays and they can be shown during the review. Each conference decides if they want to do it and the Big XII decided to allow the three replays Thanks for the nice comments about K-State, Manhattan and the people. The one common theme from visitors is always how friendly and down to earth the K-State family is. Glad you all agree. It's the reason this Kansas City native decided to go to K-State over KU and it's the best decision I ever made. Great effort by your team. Great game plan and execution too. Good luck the rest of they season.

I allowed myself one last moral victory against a power conference team last night. I was extremely proud of the way the team fought the entire game. Taking a cue from Coach Mac, from now on I am no longer going to be satisfied with occasionally competing with teams from power conferences. From here forward, I expect us to always be competitive and start posting some wins against those programs. Moral victory, you have been a frequent companion for more seasons than I care to admit. Goodbye old friend, may you R.I.P. GO MEAN GREEN!

Let me throw out a few comments/thoughts about what is going on at North Texas, and what still needs to go on. First of all, we finally have the coach (and assistant coaches) here that have made a significant change in the CULTURE in the football program. For the first time in I don't know how long, we have a team leader saying (and I fully believe that the rest of the team believes it too) that they EXPECTED to win against a ranked opponent. When was the last time that anyone on this board heard such a thing? No doubt about it.....it's an attitude/culture change. NOW, where do the rest of us fit into this? Just as importantly, WHERE DOES THE ADMINISTRATION FIT INTO THIS? Coach Mac has done his job! He has recruited, trained, and prepared his team to play with the big boys. And they are doing just that! BUT! it is NOT HIS JOB to change the culture outside of his area of responsibility. It's EVERYONE'S JOB! But most notably it's the job of the people who are paid to attend to such things. And I don't see the same energy, intensity, creativity, or urgency coming from those people as I do the coaching staff of the football team. This cannot continue! I think that Coach Mac has already noticed and he is not amused. A culture change means that we not only have a full stadium during the good times (and I still haven't seen that), but it stays full during the down times. For those who say "all that will change when we start winning" I point to the most recent goings on at SMU and the U of Miami. Times aren't so good for them these days and guess what happens?......THEIR FAIR -WEATHER-WE-SHOW-UP-IN-DROVES-WHEN-YOU-ARE-WINNING-FANS are nowhere to be found....and I mean NOWHERE! As a major component of our culture change (and everyone, including the paid staff, had better get started on it) we have to have fans that show up NO MATTER WHAT! THAT is what I'm talking about when I talk about culture change. Now flame away!

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2012/09/quick-sun-belt-call-notes-3.html/#commentzone While talking about the Sun Belt conference calls this morning Vito compares Western Kentucky upsetting Kentucky to UNT beating Texas or A$M. Really? It's Kentucky. This is football, not basketball. Seems to me us beating Rice ... or maybe UTEP would be more correct. Honestly, for all the praise the SEC gets from the media they have a lot of bottom level teams.

And culture change includes negating/overcoming the "we live in the D/FW area and D/FW fans are all fair weather" attitude/excuse. Fans come back when they feel that they are actually a part of something. North Texas students/alumni/fans have never felt that way.

Do you look at the world through crap colored glasses?

Student side will be standing room only. Don't know about the old people side. 26,975

Silver...while I agree with most of this and gave you a +1...please know that you are not speaking for all alumni when you infer that "they are not part of something". Sometimes you get out and back from what you put into something. As you may know, I give a lot of my time to UNT and I feel VERY much a part of UNT. Perhaps some of our Alums who don't feel a part of it may need to actually open their eyes and see where and what they can be a a part of and where their interests in getting involved lie...it's really a two way street as it is in most cases. Sit around and want to be spoon fed? Well, you will probably be very unhappy...get involved...well, might just open ones eyes a bit. I know you are involved in several areas, but many alums are not....if they feel "left out" or not a part of anything, well perhaps they should look in the mirror and see the reason why. Lots of areas and ways to get involved these days....my bride thinks I may be too involved with all the days and hours I spend on various projects for and with UNT (HA!) ....so, give it a try. One might see how taking that initiative to get involved might just make one actually feel involved and feel a part of something great going on at UNT these days. And, i am not talking just about athletics here....lots of areas in which to get involved...including the Alumni Association who just helped to sponsor a great Oktoberfest event and watch party at the Alumni pavilion just this last Saturday...everyone attending certainly felt a part of UNT...or so it appeared to me!

Overcoming decades of apathy will not be cured in a couple years; it will have to be a long drawn out process to overcome what you are talking about. The good thing is Coach Mac and RV are cultivating incoming students now to follow the athletic programs and hopefully that pays dividends in the future.

What the hell? I thought this thread was about Trey Norris!

He should stick with pregame smack talk.. Not post game wrap up.

I'd hide under a mask too. "Negative 1 yard in first quarter" wasn't "playing doiwn to the competition." It was because North Texas was beating Kansas State. The "best team in the Big 12" was dominated by North Texas in the first half. I bet they wouldn't go double or nothin' with us again. I'm proud of what North Texas did Saturday night. Not proud of not winning but pleased with the effort. Beat Troy. Win the Sun Belt GO MEAN GREEN

The situation reminds me to a large extent of what happened in the Gaza Strip. The Bush Administration (rightly) supported the democratization of the area, but then condemned the democratic process because people we didn't like got elected. Same thing has happened here. Obama rightly supported the overthrow of dictatorial regimes, and now some people are criticizing his support of democracy in Libya, Egypt Tunisia and Yemen because it turns out that they might not support everything that we do. There's no excuse for the violation of sovereignty which the death of Ambassador Stevens represents. The proper response, however, is not war unless one supports the notion that the United States should operate as an imperial power (and is willing to pay the taxes associated with the same). Our last attempt to play at empire ended laughably in Iraq - mainly because the initial proponents of that action failed to actually support it when the going got tough (mainly by refusing to pay for it). So what should happen? It should be left up to the local authorities to conduct their investigations and turn over the perpetrators of these acts to the United States for trial and punishment (and not indefinite detention as is the case in Guantanamo). Unlike the vast majority of these Mohammedan savages, we are an adult nation of laws, and should comport ourselves as such.

The fact that Vito bitched and moaned in his blog about being locked out of Dodge's practices, yet accepts Mac doing the same thing without a peep tells me he picks and chooses his facts. His personal biases show through in his writing, just like about every other journalist. And of course K-State has superior athletes. They are ranked #15 in the nation, aren't they?

Too small!

Do they have an hourly rate?

The idea of superior talent is an opinion not a fact, subjective. But I can see that you are arguing our team is inferior to KState. I will get the Tar can someone get the feathers? Vito did not need to use that terminology, to me he used it as a back handed shot. He can stick it as far as I am concerned.

Which team has finished higher in the Recruiting rankings in the past 6 seasons? 2012 KSU 58 UNT 99t http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2012/all/all 2011 KSU 68 UNT 102t http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2011/all/all 2010 KSU 63 UNT 98 http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2010/all/all 2009 KSU 92 UNT 104t http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2009/all/all 2008 KSU 27 UNT 86 http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2008/all/all 2007 KSU 38 UNT 113t http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2007/all/all Which team has more NFL prospects on it? KSU 7, UNT 0 http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2013 Which team has a player on the Heisman Trophy watch list? KSU http://espn.go.com/college-football/heisman11/ As a journalist Vito goes off Facts. The facts say Kansas State has superior talent.

I've had a theory for a while about the BCS conferences and the "other" conferences. And it revolves around recruiting, the type of athletes these schools recruit, and their geographic footprint. If you look at the geographic recruiting footprint of the AQ conferences, you could assign a "little brother" that matches the recruiting area. Big 10 - MAC Pac 12 - MWC/WAC Big 12 - CUSA SEC - Sunbelt The SEC has had the best athletes for some time now and if you're going to get the "next tier" athlete....which AQ conference would you want to get that next tier from? As it stands today, Athlete to Athlete, I think the Sunbelt conference is in position to overcome the CUSAs and MWCs of the world. The reason that Monroe and Troy and WKU can hang with and in some instances beat teams from the #1 conference in the land is because they recruit the same type of athlete....because they're in the same part of the country. It's taken about 10-12 years to establish this. (Also regarding recruiting, it's also obvious how far the conference has come and how far behind the Sunbelt we fell in Dickey's last couple of years and the Dodge debacle...and a miracle how fast McCarney appears to be overcoming it.) I'm not advocating staying in the Sunbelt. It makes too much sense to play Tulsa, Rice, UTEP, and Tulane vs the other farther away schools. I get that. And the Sunbelt is about to take a step back anyway with FCS move ups and start ups coming in. (By the way so is CUSA) So while this year's version of the Sunbelt is better than this year's version of CUSA, I get why we're leaving the Sunbelt. And unfortunately for the Sunbelt, the exsisting schools have little tradition, little budgets, and little national recognition and history. What momentum they are finally gaining on the field cannot overcome the real competive edge in college football today which is money and perception (which combined with geography, is the reason we're leaving.) I guess my point is, the product on the field in the Sunbelt has been improving the past few years and they are gaining momentum in recruiting....and they're finally getting some national recognition for it. Perception wise, we're moving up....money wise, we're moving up. Product on the field? I'm not so sure...

I have been working on my penetrating analysis of Daniel Sams' Heisman candidacy... 1st and 10 at UNT 35 Daniel Sams rush for 3 yards to the NoTex 32. 3rd and 1 at UNT 42 Daniel Sams rush for 7 yards to the NoTex 35 for a 1ST down. 2nd and 6 at UNT 47 Daniel Sams rush for 5 yards to the NoTex 42. 1st and 10 at KSU 49 Daniel Sams rush for 4 yards to the NoTex 47. 21 35 I thought he briliantly ran out the clock with 2 minutes to go with his team ahead 35-21... 4 rushes 19 yards I think Geno Smith and some others are slightly ahead of him, but I think Sams put himself in the conversation with this tantalizing effort...

I agree with your major points, but I'd have to say that we have few fair weather fans given that we have only won 5 games in the past how many years, and still have 18,000 to 25,000 people show for a home game. That is basically the size of our base, hardcore fans. To have fair weather fans, you have to actually win. If you throw the tailgaters into that number, than it goes up considerably. I think what we need now are ways to convince the taligaters to come into the game plus bring in new fans from the student body and community.

Your conference opponents know you best and know how to prepare for you (don't forget how people were saying FIU would go unbeaten last year. Didn't happen). I will be happy with 7 wins this year. I am encouraged that we scored 35 points against 2 ranked teams this year WHEN THOSE POINTS MATTER (unlike the 20 some odd points scored by Ark St. against Oregon after being down over 50 points at the half). I am encouraged by a secondary that, until the late 3rd and 4th quarter of the K St. game, has looked muched improved from last year. I am encouraged by the team speed and size increase from 2 years ago. I am encouraged by the offensive discipline when it comes to penalties (now, if the special teams could just get some of that discipline when it comes to execution). I am far more encouraged by the above things than a coach saying nice things about us after beating us by 14 points.

23,881 inside the stadium 2,857 that stay outside tailgating

Wait... Aren't we in the middle of a football season?

Whenever I tailgate, I get a whole slew of music friends to come out. Most of them don't really care about football or even know what's going on, but they walk from the parking lot to the stands with me. We sit right by the GB and yell loudly (basically at all times). These people are not die-hards, they just like hanging out with their friends. I just got them to hang out at Apogee on Saturday home games. And over the past two years or so, some of those music people have turned into die hards. So it's happening. There are more butts in seats. I know the cutlure is a heck of a lot better than when I first got to NT in 2007.

It's up to the alumni and community to deliver a culture change by deciding they will support the program. UNT *is* its alumni and community. It's not up to the AD to continually stroke the alumni/community to get them to come out/donate *if* they do so-and-so. The school/AD/students/alumni have delivered the facilities and the coaching staff. The coaching staff is beginning to deliver results. It's up to the alumni and community to step up to change the culture. Like it or not, the students/alumni and community *are* the culture. *They* have to make the decision to change the culture. And that may be in conjunction with or IN SPITE OF what the administration/AD do. Continual blame of the administration and AD is excuse making. Nut up and support your school. Wag the freaking dog for once.

Meanwhile, I found myself near Berry Street in the heart of hundreds of collar popping frog fans, tv on FSN, crowd screaming bloody murder when UNT stopped KSU at the four. Lots of ” Wow! UNT is getting really good!”

Well I was in Best Buy yesterday with a MG shirt on and someone saw it and asked, "did you watch that game?" I said yeah and we had a conversation about how good they looked and how close it was. Had several people at work make similar comments this morning. Why? Because of the of the product on the field. Which was commented on by national and local media, which put it out there. This morning, 100,000 alumni working in the DFW metroplex went to work and were probably told the same thing. When the product on the field adds to credibility.....the culture will change.

You're talking about maybe 10 programs in the country that will show up no matter what. I went to a Longhorn game when I was in highschool in the 90s....there were plenty of seats available. I'm sorry Silver, it is wins and only wins that will get this turned around. Do you think the Rangers were sitting around trying to figure out how to get people in the stands when they were finishing 3rd and 4th every year? What have they done differently from a marketing standpoint to break the 3 million mark in attendance this year? Their marketing department is Ron Washington. Just like our marketing department is Dan McCarney. Watch what happens in Boise, Idaho the first time they go 6-6. The Cowboys will not sell out that stadium if they go 7-9. Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX is and always will be a winners town, period. I understand what you're saying. It frustrates me too. But what the hell is the AD supposed to do to get people to choose to show up to the games when we've been so bad for so long? It's going to take more time. Go 8-4 followed by 10-2 with a bowl win in between and you'll all the sudden see the culture magically change. Gonna take wins and nothing else. We had a run from 2001-2005 but crappy facilities. Then we had nice facilities with crappy football. We have never seen the two hit at the same time and I think when we do....this thing is going to explode.

Two-way street there. I can't control that I just got here in 2008. I can't control that I got through the graduate program in record time with top grades, so only got employment enabling me a meager level of donation this calendar year. Yet for the entirety of my time, these things have been held against me. Change the culture? Embrace and develop the younger fan base with the open arms of the old, and stop sweating the small stuff that usually books down to clothing, standing, and stickers.

I am the power of one. I will make my UNT stronger through representation , participation, and donation ! GMG

The problem is, UNT is located in DFW. DFW fans, for the most part, are fair-weather fans. Look at the Rangers of late VS the Rangers of the early-to-mid 2000's. Look at the Stars of today VS the Stars of the late 90's-early 2000's. DFW loves a winner and will not show up for a loser. The only team around here that has a huge enough fan base to fill up their stadium when they're losing is the Cowboys. Apparently, that attitude is alive and kicking in Denton as well.

Troy vs Miss State was a Troy HOME GAME.

Agree...on the post game show, I heard coach, player and analysts give McCarney props....all mentioned expecting a well-prepared, disciplined opponent. GMG

Still a Buick, but it's been tricked-out by Chico. Fuzzy dice, candy paint, hydraulic switches, and 13" Daytons, but they were still running it, so it's still a Buick.

Just knowing a little bit of the background and history with Snyder and Coach Mac, I'd venture to bet that those comments are more genuine than coach speak.

Why people feel the need to make conversations public to anyone and everyone is beyond me. Says the guy posting on a public message board...

Rome was not built in a day, Coach McCarney is making record time. Others are noticing.

Thanks for the info untcampbell. I watched the game at home in Atlanta GA. What a grand feeling I had about this team! I have been following NT since first enrolling there in 1962 and I feel such a change coming over our beloved school...I surely do wish I could go to a game!

A spelling error with auto correct on, or a ball sack. Take your pick

I don't remember us ever looking this solid under Dickey, but the amount of improvement from when Coach McCarney arrived to now is everything I could have hoped. I see us improving still and the issues being fixed as we go. We are a young team and this is only the beginning of the second year of this new coaching staff. I can see us having a winning season this year, heck I do expect a winning season this season.

Whenever I feel down, I just visit ponyfans and am thankful I'm not one of them, for so many reasons

I like this one.

That was not a conservative game plan, it was the right game plan. NT moved the ball most of the night and was largely successful keeping KSU's offense off the field. The game was lost by special teams with both the offense and defense having very good games relative to the competition. KSU is largely a power running team and NT almost eliminated that, forcing KSU to throw. Unfortunately, Klein got better in the second half and make NT pay for their single coverages. NT does not have the speed at wr to go long against a team with KSU's talent in the defensive backfield. Chancellor was pretty much eliminated from the passing game, but Canales and McCarney were able to get him the ball a lot more than the TSU game. Years ago, pass oriented teams could beat talent with a hot QB and the right schemes. That does not happen as much anymore as the defenses have caught up and even the pass oriented teams tend to concentrate on the short passing games. NT did not lose the game because of the plan and certainly not the coaching (special teams excluded), but because KSU was the better team.

Good luck the rest of the season, guys. I'll be back around here before our basketball game.

I fully concur with your supposition; which is also to say, I agree with it.

So, clarifying point - I thought I read the other day that the upper portion of the wing holds 5,900 seats, correct?

HOF Worthy, untcampbell! Great stuff...well said!