Stoops On Expectations

[LongJim]

The link below is Choke Job Bob's latest press conference where he makes (IMO) some good comments on what is expected of players in the classroom, regarding conditioning, and also his and his staff's failure to perhaps evaluate talent. 0U has struggled this year on the OL because of injury, and other attrition, and this caught my eye because the cumulative effect is affecting 0U and UNT in a similar way on the field.

Pretty candid comments.

Stiff Upper Lip, Bobby...

[KRAM1]

And, guess what...there is a rising tide in Sooner Nation'ville that thinks Stoops is doing a "bad job" and it might be time to look for a new head coach! Wow, let's hire him at UNT! You know, where he can really make the big bucks...surely Bob Stoops would never have a bad year....however, what OU calls a bad year, I would love to see this season at UNT! HA!

LongJim is correct...interesting and valid comments from Stoops...with some application for UNT as mentioned. Thanks for posting the link...

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

I don't see how this compares to us at all.

In Stoops first 10 seasons at OU, he racked up 7 conference titles, 1 national titles, four trips to the national title game, 7 BCS games, 2 Heisman Trophy winners, multiple Butkus Award, Thorpe Award, and O'Brien award winner along with Lombardi and Outland Award winners and others.

So, in his 11th season, six starters are lost for the season due to injury. Tough luck. But, to say his situation in any way is like ours here is ridiculous. Without the injuries, OU is likely sitting at 7-2 or 8-1, if not 9-0. We're getting blown out by ULM by four touchdowns at home in our head coach's third season. There's no comparison.

As it stands OU's four losses have come by a combined total of 12 points. Anyone who thinks this season is some sort of sign that Stoops is losing it or can't judge talent is simply wishful thinking. If you hate OU, then just be glad they've had a spate of bad luck. If you think 2010 will be a repeat, you'll be sorely disappointed.

Stoops' problem this year is that he got caught having to play a bunch of guys during the season who they hadn't planned on playing even in August. Remember, their tight end's injury came two days before the start of the season. That guy was an All-American. The day before, their starting center was injured. His backup was injured the week before in practice.

So, they flipped the backup at tight end to center. Suddenly, they are going into game one with a walk-on starting at tight end and a guy playing center who hadn't ever played OL in his life. They have basically one day to practice with this group before they go to Dallas. They do a walk through with this group once beforre the BYU game.

So, they've got one full practice and one walk through with that bunch after practicing with the other guy all spring and fall. They lose Sam Bradford in the first half of that first game. And, they still only lose 14-13 to BYU when their 50+ yard field goal attempt falls short with less than a minute left.

Guys, if Bob Stoops has a winning record this year with all of the injuries his team has racked up, he should be coach of the year. But, to somehow lump what is happening up there to what is happening down here is ridiculous.

For the past three seasons, this thing has been awful. All the way around awful. OU may have a guy jump here or there, but they're still sending linemen into the NFL. Check out former Sooner Phil Loadholt starting for the Minnesota Vikings in his rookie season! He was a JUCO guy. Our JUCO guys aren't going to even get a sniff in the NFL as free agents.

Stoops may have had some bad luck this year. But, he's still managed to guide his school to a winning record. Dodge hasn't done that in three seasons. Any conversation with Stoops and Dodge even being mentioned together is, on its face, ludicrous. Besides being human beings who walk on two legs, there is nothing remotely similar about the way the two men coach, or their fates as a results of their coaching effort. Stoops will still be OU's head coach long after Dodge has been fired and forgotten. If Dodge is lucky, Stoops may hire him to coach receivers or something after his dismal tenure here ends.

Edited November 12, 2009 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[KRAM1]

I don't see how this compares to us at all.

But, of course, you don't.

[greenjoe]

Well, I don't think it will happen, but if Bob Stoops applies for ANY job at North Texas, hire him.

[KRAM1]

Well, I don't think it will happen, but if Bob Stoops applies for ANY job at North Texas, hire him.

Amen to that!

[LongJim]

I don't see how this compares to us at all.

So, in his 11th season, six starters are lost for the season due to injury. Tough luck. But, to say his situation in any way is like ours here is ridiculous. Without the injuries, OU is likely sitting at 7-2 or 8-1, if not 9-0. We're getting blown out by ULM by four touchdowns at home in our head coach's third season. There's no comparison.

Where in my post did I compare the situations? This is what I wrote:

"0U has struggled this year on the OL because of injury, and other attrition, and this caught my eye because the cumulative effect is affecting 0U and UNT in a similar way on the field."

Then you go on to fellate Stoops in your manifesto that has nothing to do with what I was pointing out.

Stoops wasn't crying because of injuries. He's talking about kids doing what they're supposed to do in practice and in the classroom, and how lack of experience/young players make mistakes, but at some point the player has to grow up and start making plays.

I've cut out most of your straw man stuff, but since you brought it up, if you don't see losing your starting QB, inexperienced QB backup, much of your OL, and your starting WR to injuries, plus injuries to your tailback, 5 picks at Nebraska, and your offense racking up penalties for stupid mistakes all year, your kicking game collapsing at critical times (see Nebraska and BYU) inability to protect your quarterback, JUCO starters at OL, kids not making the team or getting kicked off because of grades or shenanigans,--to UNT's spate of injuries and inexperience to Riley, inexperienced QB backup, untimely interceptions, the struggling DL/LB corp, kicking game collapsing at critical times, racking up penalties for stupid mistakes all year, inability to get to the quarterback, Nwigwe's loss, Cam's injury/absence, JUCO starters at WR, kids not making the team or getting kicked off because of grades or shenanigans...then I don't know what to tell you.

0U 'only loses' to BYU on a missed field goal with a minute left and lose their starting QB to injury. They 'only lose' 10-3 to a Nebraska team in a game that comes down to the wire on an early interception returned to inside the 5, and a Hail Mary that could have won the game but shouldn't have even been thrown at that down and distance, due to the fact that they couldn't throw or run the ball. UNT 'only loses' by one point to an Ohio Bobcat team in OT and lose their starting QB to injury. They 'only lose' to Lafayette on a last minute TD drive helped by a questionable penalty and inability to get to the QB. No, no similarities there.

Your quote about 0U's JUCO's going to the NFL and UNT's not getting a "sniff" only further reinforces the talent point. That was then, and this is now. 0U doesn't have it right now on the OL--they have not been recruiting well there recently and they have issues at other positions as well. UNT has issues due to injury and talent and depth, has not recruited well (at all?) at DT as you have mentioned in your recent posts. Whether or not TD is the culprit is immaterial, and I'm not arguing that he isn't.

I'm not "lumping" anything in. I'm not saying the situations are identical. There are similarities is all, and if you don't see them, you're not looking very hard.

BTW, 0U lost against Texas, BYU, and Nebraska because those teams kicked his team's ass. He and his wonderful coaching staff did the best they could with what they had. Stoops said this week that the last interception Landry had against Nebraska was basically Landry's fault. Are Landry's mistakes (failures) due to inexperience, or are Bob and Heupel crummy coaches? Why couldn't he motivate his team enough to beat a WAC team he clearly out-athleted, or a Nebraska team that had no offense?

Are Todd Dodge, Todd Ford and the rest of the staff doing the best they can with what they have? Is Deloach? That's what this boils down to. If you believe no, that's fine. I have no problem with that. But it's my opinion that poor coaching is not a primary issue that continues to affect this program.

[Green Dozer]

I don't see how this compares to us at all.

In Stoops first 10 seasons at OU, he racked up 7 conference titles, 1 national titles, four trips to the national title game, 7 BCS games, 2 Heisman Trophy winners, multiple Butkus Award, Thorpe Award, and O'Brien award winner along with Lombardi and Outland Award winners and others.

So, in his 11th season, six starters are lost for the season due to injury. Tough luck. But, to say his situation in any way is like ours here is ridiculous. Without the injuries, OU is likely sitting at 7-2 or 8-1, if not 9-0. We're getting blown out by ULM by four touchdowns at home in our head coach's third season. There's no comparison.

As it stands OU's four losses have come by a combined total of 12 points. Anyone who thinks this season is some sort of sign that Stoops is losing it or can't judge talent is simply wishful thinking. If you hate OU, then just be glad they've had a spate of bad luck. If you think 2010 will be a repeat, you'll be sorely disappointed.

Stoops' problem this year is that he got caught having to play a bunch of guys during the season who they hadn't planned on playing even in August. Remember, their tight end's injury came two days before the start of the season. That guy was an All-American. The day before, their starting center was injured. His backup was injured the week before in practice.

So, they flipped the backup at tight end to center. Suddenly, they are going into game one with a walk-on starting at tight end and a guy playing center who hadn't ever played OL in his life. They have basically one day to practice with this group before they go to Dallas. They do a walk through with this group once beforre the BYU game.

So, they've got one full practice and one walk through with that bunch after practicing with the other guy all spring and fall. They lose Sam Bradford in the first half of that first game. And, they still only lose 14-13 to BYU when their 50+ yard field goal attempt falls short with less than a minute left.

Guys, if Bob Stoops has a winning record this year with all of the injuries his team has racked up, he should be coach of the year. But, to somehow lump what is happening up there to what is happening down here is ridiculous.

For the past three seasons, this thing has been awful. All the way around awful. OU may have a guy jump here or there, but they're still sending linemen into the NFL. Check out former Sooner Phil Loadholt starting for the Minnesota Vikings in his rookie season! He was a JUCO guy. Our JUCO guys aren't going to even get a sniff in the NFL as free agents.

Stoops may have had some bad luck this year. But, he's still managed to guide his school to a winning record. Dodge hasn't done that in three seasons. Any conversation with Stoops and Dodge even being mentioned together is, on its face, ludicrous. Besides being human beings who walk on two legs, there is nothing remotely similar about the way the two men coach, or their fates as a results of their coaching effort. Stoops will still be OU's head coach long after Dodge has been fired and forgotten. If Dodge is lucky, Stoops may hire him to coach receivers or something after his dismal tenure here ends.

Oh please Lonnie, you have had a man crush on Stoops since you started posting. It has always been OU this and OU that when you mention a program. Even down to the time Dodge did a chat and you ranted how Stoop did not do that. (Just ribbing you a little )

On a serious note, a couple of national sports guys have pointed out that Big Game Bob has not shown the fire this year that he has in the past. They see it as a sign that he may want to move to a new challenge. He is building a 3 million dollar home in Norman, and his wife is way big in Mary Kay as she is one of their biggest sales person, so who knows. He may also know that Texas is a young team and is only going to better the next couple of years with that Lake Travis quarterback taking over next year, followed by Chase McCoy who is suppose to be better than his brother.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

I don't buy it. I don't buy it from Stoops - who has more than enough skins on the wall. And, I certainly don't buy it on behalf of Todd Dodge.

Stoops' 2009 squad has had injuries. But, so what? He's still 5-4, and a field goal here and there in a few games from being a little better in spite of all of the injuries. Either way, it's his responsibility and his staff's responsibility to have whomever is available ready. At four losses by 12 points to schools like BYU, Texas, Miami, and Nebraska, I fail to see what OU fans are so upset about or what Stoops is so defensive about.

Dodge's situation is night and day different. He's just inept at this level, has no history of success at this level, and it doesn't appear as though he ever will here in Denton. It would take him 10 years to win as many games as Stoops' school usually wins in a season.

If we were 5-4 with the only losses by a combined 12 points, we'd be giving Dodge a 10-year extension and naming half the buildings on campus after him. But, he isn't. As with his first two seasons, his team is uninspired and alread guaranteed another losing season. And, 5-4 type teams are beating us at home by four tocuhdowns.

It's different. The only similarity is this - Stoops and Dodge can whine all they want about what their players do and do not do. But, the bottom line is both are responsibile for the product they put out of the field. So, they should both kept their mouths shut, quit throwing their players under the bus, and get on with what they're paid to do - coach and win. There's no excuse for either one of them. The players don't coach themselves.

[UNT Mean Green]

TFLF is right on about Stoops. The comparison of these two situations (OU v. UNT or Dodge & Stoops) is apples to something not even close to apples or oranges for that matter...

Where would Stoops go for a new challenge? And if you're building a 3 million dollar estate in the Norman/OKC area, what are you going to do? Just up and leave for a 'new challenge'? Don't think so. I'd doubt if Stoops is nearly as concerned with Texas as you state Dozer. Both Texas and Oklahoma are elite national level programs (alongside Florida, Alabama, LSU, USC) and I don't think there's too much to worry about there.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Where in my post did I compare the situations? This is what I wrote:

"0U has struggled this year on the OL because of injury, and other attrition, and this caught my eye because the cumulative effect is affecting 0U and UNT in a similar way on the field."

Then you go on to fellate Stoops in your manifesto that has nothing to do with what I was pointing out.

Stoops wasn't crying because of injuries. He's talking about kids doing what they're supposed to do in practice and in the classroom, and how lack of experience/young players make mistakes, but at some point the player has to grow up and start making plays.

I've cut out most of your straw man stuff, but since you brought it up, if you don't see losing your starting QB, inexperienced QB backup, much of your OL, and your starting WR to injuries, plus injuries to your tailback, 5 picks at Nebraska, and your offense racking up penalties for stupid mistakes all year, your kicking game collapsing at critical times (see Nebraska and BYU) inability to protect your quarterback, JUCO starters at OL, kids not making the team or getting kicked off because of grades or shenanigans,--to UNT's spate of injuries and inexperience to Riley, inexperienced QB backup, untimely interceptions, the struggling DL/LB corp, kicking game collapsing at critical times, racking up penalties for stupid mistakes all year, inability to get to the quarterback, Nwigwe's loss, Cam's injury/absence, JUCO starters at WR, kids not making the team or getting kicked off because of grades or shenanigans...then I don't know what to tell you.

0U 'only loses' to BYU on a missed field goal with a minute left and lose their starting QB to injury. They 'only lose' 10-3 to a Nebraska team in a game that comes down to the wire on an early interception returned to inside the 5, and a Hail Mary that could have won the game but shouldn't have even been thrown at that down and distance, due to the fact that they couldn't throw or run the ball. UNT 'only loses' by one point to an Ohio Bobcat team in OT and lose their starting QB to injury. They 'only lose' to Lafayette on a last minute TD drive helped by a questionable penalty and inability to get to the QB. No, no similarities there.

Your quote about 0U's JUCO's going to the NFL and UNT's not getting a "sniff" only further reinforces the talent point. That was then, and this is now. 0U doesn't have it right now on the OL--they have not been recruiting well there recently and they have issues at other positions as well. UNT has issues due to injury and talent and depth, has not recruited well (at all?) at DT as you have mentioned in your recent posts. Whether or not TD is the culprit is immaterial, and I'm not arguing that he isn't.

I'm not "lumping" anything in. I'm not saying the situations are identical. There are similarities is all, and if you don't see them, you're not looking very hard.

BTW, 0U lost against Texas, BYU, and Nebraska because those teams kicked his team's ass. He and his wonderful coaching staff did the best they could with what they had. Stoops said this week that the last interception Landry had against Nebraska was basically Landry's fault. Are Landry's mistakes (failures) due to inexperience, or are Bob and Heupel crummy coaches? Why couldn't he motivate his team enough to beat a WAC team he clearly out-athleted, or a Nebraska team that had no offense?

Are Todd Dodge, Todd Ford and the rest of the staff doing the best they can with what they have? Is Deloach? That's what this boils down to. If you believe no, that's fine. I have no problem with that. But it's my opinion that poor coaching is not a primary issue that continues to affect this program.

Yeah, there are similarities if you put Ohio and Louisiana into the same category talent level as BYU and Nebraska. I don't. No one does. Ohio and Louisiana wouldn't finish games against BYU and Nebraska within one and seven points - and neither would we.

Also, I'd take Landry and his 17 touchdown passes versus 11 interceptions in his redshirt freshman year over what we're getting in a heartbeat. Landry's done his business against much tougher competition than Riley and his 7 touchdown and 10 picks. And...Riley's sat out our two toughest games - Alabama and Troy. Landry's been in every OU game thusfar.

Given the differences in comeptition level, it would make more sense if Jones had the 7-10 numbers and Dodge the 17-11. But, it's isn't that way. I'd love to have a legitimate 6-4, 220 pound 4-star quarterback recruit throwing more TDs than picks to complain about. But, I don't. I've got Riley.

Also as to OU's linemen:

C - Ben Habern - 4 star recruit: http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p...amp;nid=2991593

G - Jarvis Jones - 4 star recruit: http://rivals.yahoo.com/oklahoma/football/...vis-Jones-45512

G - Stephen Good - 5 star recruit: http://rivals.yahoo.com/dallasnews/footbal...phen-Good-52697

T - Trent Williams - 3 star recruit: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recr...-Williams-36432

T - Cory Brandon - 4 star recruit: http://rivals.yahoo.com/oklahoma/football/...y-Brandon-33062

Looks like their recruiting on the OL is just fine. What it looks like to me is their OL coach ought to get off of his butt and do what he's paid to do - get his four- and five-star prospects up to speed.

Believe me, I'd love it if Spencer Leftwich was having to stuggle along with OU's poor four- and five-star linemen.

Edited November 12, 2009 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[Green Dozer]

TFLF is right on about Stoops. The comparison of these two situations (OU v. UNT or Dodge & Stoops) is apples to something not even close to apples or oranges for that matter...

Where would Stoops go for a new challenge? And if you're building a 3 million dollar estate in the Norman/OKC area, what are you going to do? Just up and leave for a 'new challenge'? Don't think so. I'd doubt if Stoops is nearly as concerned with Texas as you state Dozer. Both Texas and Oklahoma are elite national level programs (alongside Florida, Alabama, LSU, USC) and I don't think there's too much to worry about there.

Ohio is his home state, so what about Ohio State (just speculating) at some point? I doubt, hope he wouldn't, take the Notre Dame job. Heard him interviewed on the Dan Patrick Show and he did not completely rule out the NFL, said something to the affect that sometimes you wake up, your family is little more mature, so you can make a move because you need a change. That was his answer to the question if he would ever consider coaching in the NFL, thought it was an interesting answer for a coach who is known to cut right to the point with the media to say something like that. I would have thought Spurrier would have completely talked him out of it. Stoops and Jerry Jones have become good friends, and he his name is always brought up with the Browns because of his Youngtown ties. I think he is definitely to independent and a person who likes to be in control to take a job w/ the Cowboys. He ought to be concerned w/ Texas, they have beat him 4 of the last 5. He needs to win a big game. Yes, the programs you mention are elite but look at what has happened to Michigan, Miami, Notre Dame, and until Saban, Alabama.

As for the 3 million dollar house, it would have to be the most expensive one in the OKC area at least top 2 or 3. That said, I cannot imagine any hope of reselling it given today's market conditions that may not improve for several years. Guess Stoops better hope they pay the next football coach like they do him so he will have a prospect to sell it to.

FWIW, I doubt he is going anywhere unless somebody throws 2 truck loads of money his way. He already makes 1 truckload.

Edited November 12, 2009 by Green Dozer

[TIgreen01]

Are Todd Dodge, Todd Ford and the rest of the staff doing the best they can with what they have? Is Deloach? That's what this boils down to. If you believe no, that's fine. I have no problem with that. But it's my opinion that poor coaching is not a primary issue that continues to affect this program.

Good post....but how are you explaining the ULM meltdown? Were we totally "out-athlete'd" in the trenches or are our guys just not playing with intensity? No matter how you cut it, we lost that game on the line. Our dline has continued to get less and less production as the season has played out. Either other teams are figuring us out and scheming to stop what we were doing at the start of the year, our guys were never really all that good to begin with and just looked better against weaker competition, or our guys have stopped playing hard. Which is it?!

[LongJim]

Good post....but how are you explaining the ULM meltdown? Were we totally "out-athlete'd" in the trenches or are our guys just not playing with intensity? No matter how you cut it, we lost that game on the line.

You are absolutely right. ULM averaged 4.2 yards per rush and over 7 yards per play. Their DL whipped the UNT OL too, as they had 8 TFL's and 3 sacks. I expected a better showing from the UNT OL, for sure. DL is undersized and outmanned. No way around it.

[Varsity]

You fellers missed the news here: OU players have academic pressures.

When did THAT happen?

[LongJim]

Yeah, there are similarities if you put Ohio and Louisiana into the same category talent level as BYU and Nebraska. I don't. No one does. Ohio and Louisiana wouldn't finish games against BYU and Nebraska within one and seven points - and neither would we.

Wrong. There are similarities because Ohio and Louisiana are to UNT as BYU and Nebraska are to 0U. Your straw man above notwithstanding.

Looks like their recruiting on the OL is just fine. What it looks like to me is their OL coach ought to get off of his butt and do what he's paid to do - get his four- and five-star prospects up to speed.

Riiight. No doubt they need to get up to speed, but the fact remains that he has suffered attrition at that position, has new faces, and they aren't cutting it. Regardless of who's coaching them. Similar to UNT's predicament on the DL.

Believe me, I'd love it if Spencer Leftwich was having to stuggle along with OU's poor four- and five-star linemen.

Again--who wouldn't, and who's arguing otherwise?

Edited November 12, 2009 by LongJim

[TIgreen01]

You are absolutely right. ULM averaged 4.2 yards per rush and over 7 yards per play. Their DL whipped the UNT OL too, as they had 8 TFL's and 3 sacks. I expected a better showing from the UNT OL, for sure. DL is undersized and outmanned. No way around it.

Ok....so we have a weak dline. What are we doing to help the rest of the defense? We almost never blitz on passing downs and prefer to just try to cover and make a tackle....but when the opponent is throwing the ball more than 10 yards downfield (as ULM did) why not try to bring different kinds of pressure?? We cannot expect to out man every team's oline.

[untStein]

Unrelated but interesting. C - Ben Habern - 4 star recruit: http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p...amp;nid=2991593

He is from Liberty Christian and didn't even get a letter from UNT.

Edited November 12, 2009 by untStein