DRC: Benford took over a loaded team on a roll. How did it all fall apart?

[TheTastyGreek]

7 minutes ago, Green P1 said:

"Right now, I am in the trenches doing everything I can to give us the best chance to win.”

 

Liar.

A trench is just a grave, but with an open top. Like a convertible to hold a dead program. 

[wardly]

I went to the Pre-NIT tournament at Kansas State.There were nearly as many people on the court as in the stands until the Wildcats player the D-11 powerhouse from somewhere, Alabama the 2nd round for the "championship".We lost to them by poor coaching. I have never seen a team substitute so many as we did in my life. Even I got in 3 minutes. Tony Mitchell is a head case, but even so Benford just didn't know what to do with him.In summary, Benford proves that nice guys finish last.

[97and03]

 

5 hours ago, outoftown said:

Define "underperform" (so we know when that bet could be cashed). What odds would you give ? Also, how much have you saved up for your retirement? ;)

He spent all but $78 of it on the banner, so it is a pretty low-risk bet. 

[UNT90]

9 hours ago, wardly said:

I went to the Pre-NIT tournament at Kansas State.There were nearly as many people on the court as in the stands until the Wildcats player the D-11 powerhouse from somewhere, Alabama the 2nd round for the "championship".We lost to them by poor coaching. I have never seen a team substitute so many as we did in my life. Even I got in 3 minutes. Tony Mitchell is a head case, but even so Benford just didn't know what to do with him.In summary, Benford proves that nice guys finish last.

Isn't it funny how Mitchell wasn't a head case the year before Benford? Isn't it funny how AD minions sold that narrative on this very forum? 

Players know when their coach can't. That's what happened to Mitchell... and Jones... and Hardwick... and every other player that this university wrongly threw under the bus to protect Rick Villarreal and Tony Benford.

It's disgusting, and those that participated should be ashamed of themselves. They maligned 20 year old kids to protect a grown ass man that couldn't do his job.

Edited March 3, 2017 by UNT90

[wardly]

Mitchell has always been a head case. J.J. just was able to handle him for a year. His personal demons have kept him from professional success.

[UNTLifer]

18 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

Great article.

So our attendance is basically half of what it was before Bumford got here. I figure that has to be 50% revenue loss, at a minimum, probably much more because donors left with their checkbooks, too.

And, yet with all of this, UNT refused to pay out $400k-$800K to fix this thing, knowing it could've gotten those revenues back up. For the umpteenth time, the reality that its always about known costs here, unless the boosters pay the tab, which they did with McCarney, will always be the prevailing thought when it comes to revenue athletics.

Wren Baker and Neal Smatresk either have their hands full in turning this around against an administration and culture that don't care about athletics or they are the perfect people for that apathetic view to continue, just as it was with RV and Gretchen Bataille while they were in charge.

Make a good hire, here in the next few weeks, Wren...it just might get some long lost fans to consider coming back to Denton again. And by good hire, it would go a long way towards bringing people back into the fold if you hire someone people have heard of before that has been a successful head coach in the NCAA Division 1 level or even in the NBA.

 

Boosters pay the tab at every university, we just don't have near as many because historically, nobody was ever asked to give.

Smatresk and Baker are the administration.  Baker has not even celebrated his one year anniversary at NT and many are ready to cast him off to the junk heap.  Call it what you want, but here is my observation.  

Smatresk arrived when Mac had just led us to the HOD Bowl.  Many were happy in Mean Green Land, and I am sure RV had his ear taking credit for most of the excitement.  Shortly thereafter, the truth came out, Mac had issues and was fired mid season followed by RV at the end of the year.  Benford was another mess all together, but Mac's removal and RV's replacement took precedent.  Littrell was hired, RV let go and Baker was hired which tells me Littrell and Baker have Smatresk's stamp of approval.  Baker arrives at about the time a consultant's study shows just how much RV wasn't doing and Baker prioritizes things to make an impact on the most important people in the Athletic Department, the student athletes.  He sits down with Benford, Benford, trying to save his job, blames injuries, poor institutional support, etc... on why he hasn't been successful, so Baker says, "You have this season to right the ship."  Baker leaves the program in Benford's hands to succeed but keeps a close eye on the situation.  In the meantime, Baker sets about repairing and upgrading the facilities for our student athletes, reorganizes the AD, travels the land with the university president looking at facilities, acquires enough donations to announce the start of a $12 million T&F/Soccer facility and the plans for an IPF.  As the basketball season crumbles under Benford's direction, Baker starts compiling a list of replacements and will move quickly in replacing Benford once this season is done.  

Saying Smatresk and Baker don't care is a long shot, but the next few years will tell us a lot about their vision, their ability to make that vision a reality and their ability to elevate our athletic program to where it should be in Division 1 athletics.

[GrandGreen]

13 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Boosters pay the tab at every university, we just don't have near as many because historically, nobody was ever asked to give.

No, at NT and many peer universities: the tab is primarily paid by the students.  At NT that is millions of dollars annually both from the dedicated athletic fee and the amount of institutional funds necessary to balance the budget. 

Boosters' donations finally after about a decade of RV, became significant at NT.   Hopefully it becomes a larger and larger piece of financing for NT athletics, but to be accurate it as a percentage of the budget is woefully small.   

[UNTLifer]

I was referencing his comment "unless boosters pay the tab" and yes, at most universities the boosters do foot the bill of the buyout.  I know many universities, including UNT, rely on student fees, but this, again, is another area where we didn't get on the train until very late in our existence.

[Rudy]

On 03/02/2017 at 0:55 PM, UNT90 said:

The quote from Tony Mitchell says a hell of a lot.

For players to be this critical (make no mistake, they were VERY critical) of Benford confirms everything any knowledgeable basketball fan knew to be true. He lost every team he coached every year. 

For 5 years.

And UNT did nothing to stop him. 

That is the biggest news from this story. The university not caring one bit about a major program or the student athletes inside that program.

But there are 2 games left for that to change, right? 

Right?

Those players were still in college and couldn't comment after year 3,  but it certainly could have been done after last year. 

I guess that's parking pass means a lot to Vito. 

But, it would put too much stress on the players to fire him before the season ends.

On 03/02/2017 at 3:26 PM, UNT90 said:

I would bet my retirement that this next hire under performs. THAts what happens when you don't give a crap about something. That don't give a crap rolls downhill.

I'm not sure it's physically possible to under perform Benford 's tenure.

[UNT90]

5 minutes ago, Rudy said:

But, it would put too much stress on the players to fire him before the season ends.

I'm not sure it's physically possible to under perform Benford 's tenure.

Not under-perform Benford, but under perform expectations of Baker's first hire.

[GrandGreen]

On 3/3/2017 at 11:59 AM, UNTLifer said:

I was referencing his comment "unless boosters pay the tab" and yes, at most universities the boosters do foot the bill of the buyout.  I know many universities, including UNT, rely on student fees, but this, again, is another area where we didn't get on the train until very late in our existence.

Not true again, most buyouts are not done by boosters and NT athletics has almost always primarily relied on student fees.   Where do you think those magical funds come from that always have balanced the athletic budget, way before the dedicated athletic fee?

[TIgreen01]

To me, the timing of this fall is just perfect "UNT" bs.  We were on the cusp of becoming a mid major power, but our leaders care more about football and so they fix a program(buying out DMac) that will never make the jump to being competitive with power schools and allow the one sport where we did still have that chance to burn completely to the ground.  It's maddening to support my school when we've had no quality vision or plan for as long as I've been following.

I hope Baker and Smatresk are different, but I stopped holding my breath a couple of years ago.  This article just poured a crap ton of salt back into that wound.

 

[UNT90]

9 hours ago, TIgreen01 said:

To me, the timing of this fall is just perfect "UNT" bs.  We were on the cusp of becoming a mid major power, but our leaders care more about football and so they fix a program(buying out DMac) that will never make the jump to being competitive with power schools and allow the one sport where we did still have that chance to burn completely to the ground.  It's maddening to support my school when we've had no quality vision or plan for as long as I've been following.

I hope Baker and Smatresk are different, but I stopped holding my breath a couple of years ago.  This article just poured a crap ton of salt back into that wound.

 

Look, we have added 2 major salary positions to the AD and are building a $12 million dollar track facility. Stop buying the narrative from the suck ups on here that poor little ole UNT just didn't have the money to buy out Benford. That isn't what happened.

Benford was very good at playing the good ole boy UNT network. He befriended the right people and used that friendship to get these people to buy excuses. Several at our tailgate told me this was the year because Benford finally had his guys and the team cancers were gone and yada, yada, yada. Nothing you can do but just smile weakly and shake your head at people's refusal to look at any past performance evidence. 

Benford worked the system. RV worked the system. The problem isn't either of them. The problem is the system and the culture it perpetuates. 

And it will never, ever change. 

[southsideguy]

On 3/2/2017 at 9:33 PM, wardly said:

I went to the Pre-NIT tournament at Kansas State.There were nearly as many people on the court as in the stands until the Wildcats player the D-11 powerhouse from somewhere, Alabama the 2nd round for the "championship".We lost to them by poor coaching. I have never seen a team substitute so many as we did in my life. Even I got in 3 minutes. Tony Mitchell is a head case, but even so Benford just didn't know what to do with him.In summary, Benford proves that nice guys finish last.

I know sometimes it looked a hockey team changing out.  I never understood how any chemistry could be found with the team that substitute just of the sake of substituting.

[TIgreen01]

8 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Look, we have added 2 major salary positions to the AD and are building a $12 million dollar track facility. Stop buying the narrative from the suck ups on here that poor little ole UNT just didn't have the money to buy out Benford. That isn't what happened.

Benford was very good at playing the good ole boy UNT network. He befriended the right people and used that friendship to get these people to buy excuses. Several at our tailgate told me this was the year because Benford finally had his guys and the team cancers were gone and yada, yada, yada. Nothing you can do but just smile weakly and shake your head at people's refusal to look at any past performance evidence. 

Benford worked the system. RV worked the system. The problem isn't either of them. The problem is the system and the culture it perpetuates. 

And it will never, ever change. 

Both scenarios suck.  Your version could be worse, simply because any one with even a semblance of basketball IQ could watch one game and see that we didn't play with fundamentals and players seemed to get confused often on assignments.  Those are the two easiest ways to spot a coaching problem.  If the guys calling the shots can't do that then what hope do we have??  Really, the only hope for now is that Wren does know basketball and hires a solid coach, I suppose.

Edited March 6, 2017 by TIgreen01
Autocorrect

[UNT90]

3 minutes ago, TIgreen01 said:

Both scenarios suck.  Your version could be worse, simply because any one with even a semblance of basketball IQ could watch one game and see that we didn't play with fundamentals and players seemed to get confused often on assignments.  Those are the two easiest ways to spot a coaching problem.  If the guys calling the shots can't do that then what hope do we have??  Really, the only for how is that Wren does know basketball and hires a solid coach, I suppose.

Until UNT athletics is performance based instead of personality based, it will ALWAYS be the failure it has been for the past 15 plus years. It's really hard to change the way a whole system operates.