Problem with Softball!

[eeally]

I live in Austin and am subject to Cat Osterman fever !!!! But lets face it , Softball has outlived its field. This is a sport where one can dominate if she is head and shoulders above the rest of the players. This is evident with players like Cat O or Jenny Finch. They consistently throw no-hitters, 1 hitters, 2 hitters and their ERA's are .0007 or something crazy like that. When did Softball decide they would put the pitchers mound 40 feet from Home plate? This is too close! Can anyone name any other players off the USA team or UT team besides the two mentioned. As for UNT we all know Fowler but that is it. When I go to a boys little league game and see that 8yr olds pitch from 40 feet that puts it in perspective. When will softball grow the field? I know it will be never but this is why I don't really care about the sport. I want to see the SS make plays. I want the game to be about the players not just how dominating the pitcher is on a given night!

suggestion:

Make it 46 feet from pitchers mound to home and grow the basepaths 4 more feet. Push the fence back 25 feet and lets play ball....

EE's Softball Blog..................

[centex eagle]

the UIL would be for that! They cannot stand a three game series where the same girl picthes every game or nearly game of the year. Lack of suspense and smaller pool of players getting action are the result.

[Shof]

I live in Austin and am subject to Cat Osterman fever !!!! But lets face it , Softball has outlived its field.  This is a sport where one can dominate if she is head and shoulders above the rest of the players. This is evident with players like Cat O or Jenny Finch. They consistently throw no-hitters, 1 hitters, 2 hitters and their ERA's are .0007 or something crazy like that. When did Softball decide they would put the pitchers mound 40 feet from Home plate? This is too close! Can anyone name any other players off the USA team or UT team besides the two mentioned. As for UNT we all know Fowler but that is it. When I go to a boys little league game and see that 8yr olds pitch from 40 feet that puts it in perspective. When will softball grow the field? I know it will be never but this is why I don't really care about the sport. I want to see the SS make plays. I want the game to be about the players not just how dominating the pitcher is on a given night! 

suggestion:

Make it 46 feet from pitchers mound to home and grow the basepaths 4 more feet. Push the fence back 25 feet and lets play ball....

EE's Softball Blog..................

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I think it is at 43 feet now (moved from 40 a few years ago for college). Still, you are right about a single player being able to dominate if she's that good, and Cat is.

Shof

[untgirl04]

I live in Austin and am subject to Cat Osterman fever !!!! But lets face it , Softball has outlived its field.  This is a sport where one can dominate if she is head and shoulders above the rest of the players. This is evident with players like Cat O or Jenny Finch. They consistently throw no-hitters, 1 hitters, 2 hitters and their ERA's are .0007 or something crazy like that. When did Softball decide they would put the pitchers mound 40 feet from Home plate? This is too close! Can anyone name any other players off the USA team or UT team besides the two mentioned. As for UNT we all know Fowler but that is it. When I go to a boys little league game and see that 8yr olds pitch from 40 feet that puts it in perspective. When will softball grow the field? I know it will be never but this is why I don't really care about the sport. I want to see the SS make plays. I want the game to be about the players not just how dominating the pitcher is on a given night! 

suggestion:

Make it 46 feet from pitchers mound to home and grow the basepaths 4 more feet. Push the fence back 25 feet and lets play ball....

EE's Softball Blog..................

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I don't really see how that complaint doesn't apply to any sport. If someone is head and shoulders above the rest, then it stands to reason that they'll dominate. Although Cat Osterman is currently such a standout, it's not like there've never been multiple standouts on one team. I'll point to the original USA Softball team with Lisa Fernandez, Shiela Cornell, Michelle Smith, and Dot Richardson. You're always going to have dominant pitchers in baseball or softball. Look at Roger Clemens, Greg Maddox, Randy Johnson (although half the time he loses the game from lack of run support), and many others.

Finally, I don't think the distance from the plate to the pitcher's mound should make any difference whether or not you care about the sport. Love the sport for its strategy, althleticism, and cameraderie or leave it.

[untgirl04]

repost. sorry.... computer issues.

Edited June 1, 2006 by untgirl04

[untgirl04]

computer issues.... sorry.

Edited June 1, 2006 by untgirl04

[nortx9]

I don't really see how that complaint doesn't apply to any sport. If someone is head and shoulders above the rest, then it stands to reason that they'll dominate. Although Cat Osterman is currently such a standout, it's not like there've never been multiple standouts on one team. I'll point to the original USA Softball team with Lisa Fernandez, Shiela Cornell, Michelle Smith, and Dot Richardson. You're always going to have dominant pitchers in baseball or softball. Look at Roger Clemens, Greg Maddox, Randy Johnson (although half the time he loses the game from lack of run support), and many others.

Finally, I don't think the distance from the plate to the pitcher's mound should make any difference whether or not you care about the sport. Love the sport for its strategy, althleticism, and cameraderie or leave it.

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Agreed, and in this case, as dominant as Osterman is, she is really not a classic power pitcher, it is all about change of speed, movement and spin. (By the way a good article on her today in DMN). As a hitter, the adjustment is to stay back and go with the pitch. Easier said than done, particlularly when the spin and dive control makes your FB look like 120 mph. But again, that is a function of mastery of the game, not pitching distance or field dimensions. Expand the field and she would find a way to be better at the new distance. Can't back Roger Clements up to 65 feet either, even though he would probably still excel over the average thrower.

[NTEagle08]

There will be always those exceptional athletes in any sport. Changing the rules for softball because of one or two players would be pretty much the same thing the PGA courses did in "Tiger proofing" their courses for tournament play.

[centex eagle]

the point about pitchers is being missed--she can pitch every night or twice in a day. Roger C. can not, the Highland Park ace pitched last night. this sport is really about one star more than any other team game.

[nortx9]

the point about pitchers is being missed--she can pitch every night or twice in a day.  Roger C. can not, the Highland Park ace pitched last night.  this sport is really about one star more than any other team game.

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Actually, the physical requirements are much different, allowing for pitchers to pitch with less recovery time. The original point was about changing the field to offset the domination of top pitchers. My point is that they will dominate anyway,regardless of the sport, based on their physical abilities, and will adapt to field or rule changes. Once you begin making changes to the sport to offset dominant talent, the identity of the game changes, while the dominant seem to remain dominant.

[Guest e-bone]

As athletes get bigger, stronger and faster, it is sometimes necessary to change not just the rules of a sport, but the field of play in order to balance inequalities. MLB lowered the mound in 1969 because pitchers were dominating the sport. The NBA has widened the lane a couple of times and moved the 3 point line back.

Yes, there will always be dominant players in every sport, but I don't see why people are going crazy about the idea of doing something to stop the complete one sidedness in softball. Just as how MLB lowered the mound in 1969 after the ERA combined for the whole league was under 3.00, maybe something should be done in softball.

BTW, I know who Cat Osterman is but that is the only softball player I can name other than Jennie Finch. So I looked the ERA statistics for softball and it's not just Cat Osterman that is dominating. http://web1.ncaa.org/stats/StatsSrv/rankings

[untgirl04]

As athletes get bigger, stronger and faster, it is sometimes necessary to change not just the rules of a sport, but the field of play in order to balance inequalities. MLB lowered the mound in 1969 because pitchers were dominating the sport. The NBA has widened the lane a couple of times and moved the 3 point line back.

Yes, there will always be dominant players in every sport, but I don't see why people are going crazy about the idea of doing something to stop the complete one sidedness in softball. Just as how MLB lowered the mound in 1969 after the ERA combined for the whole league was under 3.00, maybe something should be done in softball.

BTW, I know who Cat Osterman is but that is the only softball player I can name other than Jennie Finch. So I looked the ERA statistics for softball and it's not just Cat Osterman that is dominating. http://web1.ncaa.org/stats/StatsSrv/rankings

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I don't think softball is one-sided. Yes, you have an ace pitcher. Every team in baseball and softball does. The reason they're able to pitch multiple games per day is (1) softball teams generally have fewer total members, so everyone has to give a little extra (2) softball tournaments are grueling - even if you win, you may play back-to-back-to-back-to-back games, so you get used to it (3) softball games have fewer innings.

I played ASA ball for 8 years, so I saw my share of amazing pitchers. One good friend of mine threw a minimum of 250 pitches per day. At the age of 12, she had a 65mph fastball and 4 other pitches: a rising fastball, sinker, curve ball, and changeup. She was dominant for about one year, and then guess what? People started getting their timing down on her. She was still a great pitcher, and was only getting better, but so were the other players. Softball players are athletes - they'll figure it out.

[bigrobdsp]

BTW, I know who Cat Osterman is but that is the only softball player I can name other than Jennie Finch. So I looked the ERA statistics for softball and it's not just Cat Osterman that is dominating. http://web1.ncaa.org/stats/StatsSrv/rankings

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cat osterman is the only player that dominite. she has 2500+ strikeouts. no other player in history has 2000.

also everyone should know of Megan Willis, the catcher for Texas.

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/imag...1&cop=&ei=UTF-8

Edited June 2, 2006 by bigrobdsp

[Guest e-bone]

The link I put up didn't work, but by looking at the stats, no, Cat Osterman is not the only pitcher that is dominating.

Go here, select division 1 through 5/28 and then look at ERA for individuals as well as teams. Those ERAs are absolutely ridiculous. I can understand when there is a Michael Jordan, Barry Bonds, Wayne Gretkzy, etc... that dominates a sport. But multiple people on the same team that dominate a sport? Something is wrong with that in my opinion. Take Cat Osterman out of the equation and it is still evident that there is a problem.

BTW, just heard on ESPN that Cat Osterman has 2228 SOs in her career, not 2500+.

[bigrobdsp]

The link I put up didn't work, but by looking at the stats, no, Cat Osterman is not the only pitcher that is dominating.

Go here, select division 1 through 5/28 and then look at ERA for individuals as well as teams. Those ERAs are absolutely ridiculous. I can understand when there is a Michael Jordan, Barry Bonds, Wayne Gretkzy, etc... that dominates a sport. But multiple people on the same team that dominate a sport? Something is wrong with that in my opinion. Take Cat Osterman out of the equation and it is still evident that there is a problem.

BTW, just heard on ESPN that Cat Osterman has 2228 SOs in her career, not 2500+.

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whatever. she has 2228 strikeouts and no other player has over 2000. the point still sticks.

[Quoner]

whatever. she has 2228 strikeouts and no other player has over 2000. the point still sticks.

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You didn't make a point - you just recited an incorrect fact. Everyone makes mistakes. Wanna hug, big guy? you want a soda? (hope you watch Family Guy)

Dominance is not about strikeouts - otherwise Nolan Ryan was the dominant pitcher in the history of baseball day in and day out.

This opens a new can of worms - most moments of individual brilliance or best overall numbers - what's more impressive?

Jenny Finch is hotter and therefore number one - no JQ - but she'd do in a pinch.

Your pictures did not do the Texas catcher justice either...

[Guest e-bone]

whatever. she has 2228 strikeouts and no other player has over 2000. the point still sticks.

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Yeah, I know your point still sucks. Stating that the Cat Osterman is the only dominant pitcher because she is the all time strikeout leader is idiotic. So I guess Nolan Ryan was the only dominant pitcher in baseball since he is the all time strikeout leader?

[bigrobdsp]

Yeah, I know your point still sucks. Stating that the Cat Osterman is the only dominant pitcher because she is the all time strikeout leader is idiotic. So I guess Nolan Ryan was the only dominant pitcher in baseball since he is the all time strikeout leader?

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there is nothing wrong with my point. Cat Osterman has thrown at least 11% more strikeouts over a 4 year carrer than any other player in history. she has taken a team that was right around .500 before her arival and made them perinial sp? national title contenders. that makes her the most dominate college softball player ever. every team in the WCWS scored 2 or more runs yesterday exept for the ones facing Cat. I think she only has like 1 run scored against her in this post season. there are other great pitches in softball, but nothing like Cat.

Edited June 2, 2006 by bigrobdsp

[Guest e-bone]

there is nothing wrong with my point.

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"cat osterman is the only player that dominite. she has 2500+ strikeouts. no other player in history has 2000."

Just because she is the all time K leader it does not mean she is the only dominant pitcher in softball. Nolan Ryan has 1200 more Ks than the next person, and twice as many as Cy Young. So was Cy Young not a great pitcher because he didn't strikeout a lot of people? Greg Maddux is an all time great pitcher but I guess he didn't dominate back in the 90s because he didn't strikeout many hitters. Forget his 1.56 ERA in 1994 when he had 10 complete games in 25 starts, he must not have dominated because he had less than 7 Ks per 9 innings.

Using a single statistic as the criteria for determining dominance is absolutely idiotic. So yes, there is something wrong with your point. Namely, it is completely wrong.

[bigrobdsp]

"cat osterman is the only player that dominite. she has 2500+ strikeouts. no other player in history has 2000."

Just because she is the all time K leader it does not mean she is the only dominant pitcher in softball. Nolan Ryan has 1200 more Ks than the next person, and twice as many as Cy Young. So was Cy Young not a great pitcher because he didn't strikeout a lot of people? Greg Maddux is an all time great pitcher but I guess he didn't dominate back in the 90s because he didn't strikeout many hitters. Forget his 1.56 ERA in 1994 when he had 10 complete games in 25 starts, he must not have dominated because he had less than 7 Ks per 9 innings.

Using a single statistic as the criteria for determining dominance is absolutely idiotic. So yes, there is something wrong with your point. Namely, it is completely wrong.

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sorry that you are having trouble reading my post. to expand: I dont mean that she is the only player to ever dominate. I do mean that she is the most dominate player to play the game, and the stats that I presented do support that point. Nolan Ryans stats are not comparable because there is a finite limt of 4 years on a sofball pitchers career. other pitchers have been as good as Nolan through 4 years. but when you have a set amount of games and you end up with *15% more K's than anyone else you are beter than anyone else has ever been. there is no argument. she is the best there has ever been. Like Jonny from georgia on the fiddle. the end.

* I am assuming that by the end of the WCWS she will have surpassed her current 11-12% lead on everyone else in history.

Edited June 2, 2006 by bigrobdsp

[Guest e-bone]

I'm not having any trouble reading your post. You said that Osterman is the only dominate pitcher because she is the all time strikeout leader. Had you said she is the most dominate playing today then that is one thing, but to say that she is the only dominate pitcher is flat out wrong. And again, to base your assumption on a single statistic is extremely narrow minded.

The last thing I'm going to say is that contrary to what some people think, Osterman is not the only pitcher to dominate softball. There are numerous pitchers, and even whole teams, with unreal ERAs. Perhaps it is time to move the mound back or make other adjustments to address the one sidedness of softball.

[Quoner]

sorry that you are having trouble reading my post. to expand: I dont mean that she is the only player to ever dominate. I do mean that she is the most dominate player to play the game, and the stats that I presented do support that point. Nolan Ryans stats are not comparable because there is a finite limt of 4 years on a sofball pitchers career. other pitchers have been as good as Nolan through 4 years. but when you have a set amount of games and you end up with *15% more K's than anyone else you are beter than anyone else has ever been. there is no argument. she is the best there has ever been. Like Jonny from georgia on the fiddle. the end.

* I am assuming that by the end of the WCWS she will have surpassed her current 11-12% lead on everyone else in history.

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Doesn't that just mean you are the best at striking people out that there has ever been?

[Coach]

At the school I am at, we have a great softball program, and I talk to the coaches a lot. They will tell you that you only advance as far as your best pitcher takes you. Softball is a sport that becomes non competitive in a hurry when there is a great pitcher rolling. You can make the case that it is the same as baseball, but softball pitchers are usually even more dominant, and they can also pitch way more often than their baseball counterparts. At the softball games I went to this year, there was almost always a discussion about changing the dimensions of the playing field to create a more competitive sport. I won't pretend to know enough to know if this is the best or most likely route, but our coaches know their softball and I trust what they say. The game may benefit from moving away from being centered on the one ace winning a game or series and toward more contribution from the team as a whole to the outcome of a game.

All of this gets in the way of what should be the real discussion...attractive softball pitchers.

Edited June 2, 2006 by Coach

[centex eagle]

ebone and coach --glad you get it.

[Gator]

ebone and coach --glad you get it.

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Dominant or not Texas is 0-2 and packing. Both Arizona and UCLA were better teams with strong pitching of their own. Texas was exposed. Go CATS.