how bad is the SBC?

LoveMG · November 14, 2005

105. UL Lafayette (5-5)

106. UL Monroe (4-5)

107. Arkansas State (5-4)

108. North Texas (2-7)

109. Troy (4-6)

110. San Jose State (1-8)

111. MTSU (3-5)

112. FIU (2-6)

113. Florida Atlantic (1-9)

114. Rice (1-8)

115. Tulane (2-7)

116. Buffalo (1-9)

117. Kent State (1-9)

118. New Mexico State (0-10)

119. Temple (0-10)

PlummMeanGreen · November 14, 2005

105. UL Lafayette (5-5)
106. UL Monroe (4-5)
107. Arkansas State (5-4)
108. North Texas (2-7)
109. Troy (4-6)
110. San Jose State (1-8)
111. MTSU (3-5)
112. FIU (2-6)
113. Florida Atlantic (1-9)
114. Rice (1-8)
115. Tulane (2-7)
116. Buffalo (1-9)
117. Kent State (1-9)
118. New Mexico State (0-10)
119. Temple (0-10)
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November 15'th Addendum (in black letters)

FWIW, my feelings in all this concerning DD could hardly be described as personal. I've met the coach in person one time best I recall. It is never any fun for any of us who feel the way we do with all this now to suggests anyone should lose their job--it's really not. This is not a dissing of our NT football players, either, because with any of the over 7,500 posts I've made on GMG.com, I have never dissed any NT football player. This is all about giving our present and future NT football players an opportunity to reach their fullest potential which I believe would give us some of those OOC wins that we all feel would raise this football program up and give us much more respect than waltzing thru the (not well respected) SBC conference would ever do.

From all that many of us have heard and leaving football out of this, DD is probably as fine a person as we've had in Denton and as one that has manned the head football coach's office at UNT. But many (trust me, "many") are looking at this as a situation that may cause a rather negative hit in the business part of NT Athletics; you know, as in, uh, money? In America, one doesn't keep a job based on how people like him/her, yet one keeps a job based on his/her overall production and if that employee staying on the payroll will give that company a good future with a positive and good upside.

I think the large majority of posters on GMG.com will admit that it is still Mean Green football that is the engine that pulls the NT Athetic Department's train so we have to insure that that engine is in its best possible shape to lead us to higher and loftier heigths than just wins over SBC schools will ever do.

Many on this forum have been around this for awhile and can almost forecast way too close for comfort the accuracy of what the UNT community litmus test response will be with DD as our future head football coach even in 2006. We have to start selling more season tickets in 2006 and do you who are still reading this think that will be a possibility in light of everything that we've observed the last few years? Dont' forget, this is UNT and Denton, Texas, America. We will never be confused with South Bend or Tuscaloosa.

And way too much of this with the dark cloud of not very positive things that have been dished out by our head coach as described in the "So How Much Capital Is Left For DD @ NT" paragraph below. Amazingly, most of that dished out toward our NT Community even during the best of times at NT albeit those best of times somewhat subtley disguised with wins over schools in the lowest profile athletic conference in NCAA D1-A. Some of our most loyal elect are still being blinded by that as to where they cannot notice DD's OOC record over the last 8 years and seem to only see NT's future in the very neighborhood that many of them in recent years have professed to want to get out of.

Now we can all kid each other till the cows come home about what it has taken for us to be bowl elgible in a league that will hardly be mistaken as the Big 12 . Again, this with DD is not about the class human being that I sincerely feel he is (although he has made probably too many "broadcasted" public relation blunders aimed toward UNT's customers that many could not understand the strange timing of those radio comments.

This is still all about the business aspects of NT Athletics, ie, a great possibility of already low season ticket sales getting even lower in 2006, how many who will drop 2006 season ticket orders and/or MG Club memberships with some thinking NT leaders believe everyone are buying into this veiled SBC charade.

So yes, this kind of fan/alumnus response might be considered as "burning the barn down to kill the mouse,' but when many of our most loyal elect some of us have heard from in recent weeks and some of that group some of NT's largest donors (of which my $500 is not one of those) start thinking in terms of withdrawing their investments in 2006 if there are no changes that will affect longterm success at UNT, then just how long after that do we see that barn smoldering on the the ground?

End of Addendum

........................................................

(Anyone else notice SMU & TCU aren't listed)?

Someone please go and lock SBC Commish' Wright Water's bathroom medicine cabinet and hide the razor blades while you're there.

................................................................................

Before we lost to a 5 year old football program for the 2'nd year in a row last Saturday and during a time that I was (somewhat) supportive of DD's leadership, I (as many of you have expressed) still felt even during that time that he had probably taken the NORTH TEXAS football program as far as he could take it. (Insert subliminal "how the hell we going to sell football season tickets in 2006)?"

What one sees with our ranking on the above list is the culmination of things going south over the last 3 years. We have some damn good football players on our Mean Green football team now that are not reaching their full potential in the opinion of a growing number of fans and alums.

Some (I surely hope not many) will be satisfied to see DD merely get this thing back to the same level we've been before as to where we can beat SBC schools, go to the NO's Bowl, get beat by CUSA's 3'rd or 4'th place team while still continuing our annual tradition that began since DD arrived at NT of getting wallopped by most OOC teams we play each year.

There are for sure some big name schools in the following chronology of DD's OOC career at NT; but FWIW, most non BCS schools play similar high profile schools each year AND................over the years schools like La Tech, Troy U, Marshall and similar are like the old blind hog and have found an acorn, ie, a win, over one of those "ranked" high profile teams from time to time.

DD's OOC W/L Record @ NT:

1998

L Oklahoma........ 37 NT 9

L Texas Tech.......30 NT 0

L Ariz. St.............34 NT 15

L TAMU................28 NT 9

1999

L UNLV.................26 NT 3 (home opener with decent crowd of which many left at the half because of boring offense)

L LSU...................52 NT 0

W Texas Tech........14 NT 21 (Corky Nelson & Matt Simon had wins over TTech)

L Baylor............... 23 NT 10

L TCU...................27 NT 3

2000

L Baylor................20 NT 7 (largest attendance in Fouts Field history & a time to make big impression with new fans--we didn't)

L Texas Tech.........13 NT 7

L UNLV..................38 NT 0

L Kansas St............55 NT 10

W Samford..............41 NT 6 (Samford is 1-AA)

2001

L TCU.....................19 NT 5

L OU.......................37 NT 10

L Texas Tech...........42 NT 14

L South Florida.........28 NT 10 (USF a football program less than 5 years old)

L Troy U..................18 NT 16 (Troy still 1-AA & making transition to 1-A & not in SBC yet)

2002

L UT........................27 NT 0

W Nichols St.............23 NT 0 (NSU a 1-AA school)

L Alabama................33 NT 7

L TCU.......................16 NT 10

L Arizona..................14 NT 9

L South Florida..........24 NT 17 (USF a football program less than 6 yrs. old)

2003

L OU........................37 NT 3

W Baylor..................52 NT 14 (SMU almost beats BU the next week)

L Air Force................34 NT 21

L Arkansas................31 NT 7

W Troy U.....................0 NT 21

2004

L UT...........................65 NT 0

L FAU.........................21 NT 13 (FAU football program less than 5 yrs. old)

L Colorado..................52 NT 21

L Baylor......................37 NT 14

2005 (9 games played--2 home games left on schedule)

OOC losses to Tulsa, Kansas St., La Tech and LSU

Conference losses to Troy U, ULaLa and FAU (2'nd year in a row)

Just A Little Food For Thought...& once again, insert subliminal "how the hell we going to sell football season tickets in 2006?"

So How Much Capital Is Left For DD @ NT? After continuous radio Mean Green fan/facilities bashing (one of which was an interview on ESPN national radio with a golden opp to brag about what good is happening at UNT? That interview became an opportunity lost), creating an "Us vs NT fans/alums" mentality with his players, still complaining about a short stick given to him at NT, lack of player (now coach's) discipline, seemed and obvious unwillingness to be a positive ambassador or representative of the university with nice things to say about our alma mater of which such an attitude has been known to sell extra tickets to new fans at similar non BCS locales, "You fill in the blanks with what I left out"___________________________________________

CAPITAL LEFT FOR DD @ NT DUE TO AFFOREMENTIONED: $0.00

So is just getting back to a level of being competitive in the Sun Belt Conference going to do it for you and make you feel good about your alma mater? Not with this NT Ex--Class of 1976...

Edited November 15, 2005 by PlummMeanGreen

MeanMag · November 14, 2005

105. UL Lafayette (5-5)
106. UL Monroe (4-5)
107. Arkansas State (5-4)
108. North Texas (2-7)
109. Troy (4-6)
110. San Jose State (1-8)
111. MTSU (3-5)
112. FIU (2-6)
113. Florida Atlantic (1-9)
114. Rice (1-8)
115. Tulane (2-7)
116. Buffalo (1-9)
117. Kent State (1-9)
118. New Mexico State (0-10)
119. Temple (0-10)
←

from ESPN website

The Sun Belt Conference probably won't have a team with more than six wins this season, but that won't prevent at least one conference member from having a banner year. With two weeks to play, Arkansas State, Louisiana-Monroe and Louisiana-Lafayette are in a three-way battle for the Sun Belt title and a berth in the New Orleans Bowl (to be played in Lafayette, La., this season because of Hurricane Katrina). It will be the first bowl appearance in school history for whichever team emerges as champion, and that will certainly make the 2005 season worth celebrating.

Edited November 14, 2005 by MeanMag

VideoEagle · November 14, 2005

from ESPN website
It will be the first bowl appearance in school history for whichever team emerges as champion, and that will certainly make the 2005 season worth celebrating.
←

I thought both Louisiana and Arkansas State had been in bowls sometime before.

Arkstfan · November 14, 2005

I thought both Louisiana and Arkansas State had been in bowls sometime before.
←

Not in I-A or its equivalent. ASU played in what is now the Florida Citrus Bowl but at the time it pitted small colleges.

ATXCajun · November 14, 2005

105. UL Lafayette (5-5)
106. UL Monroe (4-5)
107. Arkansas State (5-4)
108. North Texas (2-7)
109. Troy (4-6)
110. San Jose State (1-8)
111. MTSU (3-5)
112. FIU (2-6)
113. Florida Atlantic (1-9)
114. Rice (1-8)
115. Tulane (2-7)
116. Buffalo (1-9)
117. Kent State (1-9)
118. New Mexico State (0-10)
119. Temple (0-10)
←

How bad is the SBC? Pretty bad, but the cellar seems to be occupied by the WAC, MAC, and CUSA.

Michael Scott · November 14, 2005

How bad is the SBC? Pretty bad, but the cellar seems to be occupied by the WAC, MAC, and CUSA.
←

Put our teams in the MAC, WAC, and CUSA and see how they do.

And you do not see the other team's entire conference listed from top to bottom either.

Why is NT above Troy?

MeanGreen61 · November 14, 2005

How bad is the SBC? Pretty bad, but the cellar seems to be occupied by the WAC, MAC, and CUSA.
←

They may be in the cellar, but we've sure got 'um outnumbered

NTEagle08 · November 14, 2005

It's so bad that they have FAU's record wrong.

CaliforniaCajun · November 18, 2005

It's all about money. The average 1-A budget is $17 million. I don't think any SBC school has more than $13 million. We're a four cylinder engine competing in a race with V8s. We either have to depend on luck to become viable or we have to have the resources that the average 1-A program has.

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
November 15'th Addendum (in black letters)
FWIW, my feelings in all this concerning DD could hardly be described as personal. I've met the coach in person one time best I recall. It is never any fun for any of us who feel the way we do with all this now to suggests anyone should lose their job--it's really not. This is not a dissing of our NT football players, either, because with any of the over 7,500 posts I've made on GMG.com, I have never dissed any NT football player. This is all about giving our present and future NT football players an opportunity to reach their fullest potential which I believe would give us some of those OOC wins that we all feel would raise this football program up and give us much more respect than waltzing thru the (not well respected) SBC conference would ever do.
From all that many of us have heard and leaving football out of this, DD is probably as fine a person as we've had in Denton and as one that has manned the head football coach's office at UNT. But many (trust me, "many") are looking at this as a situation that may cause a rather negative hit in the business part of NT Athletics; you know, as in, uh, money? In America, one doesn't keep a job based on how people like him/her, yet one keeps a job based on his/her overall production and if that employee staying on the payroll will give that company a good future with a positive and good upside.
I think the large majority of posters on GMG.com will admit that it is still Mean Green football that is the engine that pulls the NT Athetic Department's train so we have to insure that that engine is in its best possible shape to lead us to higher and loftier heigths than just wins over SBC schools will ever do.
Many on this forum have been around this for awhile and can almost forecast way too close for comfort the accuracy of what the UNT community litmus test response will be with DD as our future head football coach even in 2006. We have to start selling more season tickets in 2006 and do you who are still reading this think that will be a possibility in light of everything that we've observed the last few years? Dont' forget, this is UNT and Denton, Texas, America. We will never be confused with South Bend or Tuscaloosa.
And way too much of this with the dark cloud of not very positive things that have been dished out by our head coach as described in the "So How Much Capital Is Left For DD @ NT" paragraph below. Amazingly, most of that dished out toward our NT Community even during the best of times at NT albeit those best of times somewhat subtley disguised with wins over schools in the lowest profile athletic conference in NCAA D1-A. Some of our most loyal elect are still being blinded by that as to where they cannot notice DD's OOC record over the last 8 years and seem to only see NT's future in the very neighborhood that many of them in recent years have professed to want to get out of.
Now we can all kid each other till the cows come home about what it has taken for us to be bowl elgible in a league that will hardly be mistaken as the Big 12 . Again, this with DD is not about the class human being that I sincerely feel he is (although he has made probably too many "broadcasted" public relation blunders aimed toward UNT's customers that many could not understand the strange timing of those radio comments.
This is still all about the business aspects of NT Athletics, ie, a great possibility of already low season ticket sales getting even lower in 2006, how many who will drop 2006 season ticket orders and/or MG Club memberships with some thinking NT leaders believe everyone are buying into this veiled SBC charade.
So yes, this kind of fan/alumnus response might be considered as "burning the barn down to kill the mouse,' but when many of our most loyal elect some of us have heard from in recent weeks and some of that group some of NT's largest donors (of which my $500 is not one of those) start thinking in terms of withdrawing their investments in 2006 if there are no changes that will affect longterm success at UNT, then just how long after that do we see that barn smoldering on the the ground?
End of Addendum
........................................................
(Anyone else notice SMU & TCU aren't listed)?
Someone please go and lock SBC Commish' Wright Water's bathroom medicine cabinet and hide the razor blades while you're there.
................................................................................
Before we lost to a 5 year old football program for the 2'nd year in a row last Saturday and during a time that I was (somewhat) supportive of DD's leadership, I (as many of you have expressed) still felt even during that time that he had probably taken the NORTH TEXAS football program as far as he could take it. (Insert subliminal "how the hell we going to sell football season tickets in 2006)?"
What one sees with our ranking on the above list is the culmination of things going south over the last 3 years. We have some damn good football players on our Mean Green football team now that are not reaching their full potential in the opinion of a growing number of fans and alums.
Some (I surely hope not many) will be satisfied to see DD merely get this thing back to the same level we've been before as to where we can beat SBC schools, go to the NO's Bowl, get beat by CUSA's 3'rd or 4'th place team while still continuing our annual tradition that began since DD arrived at NT of getting wallopped by most OOC teams we play each year.
There are for sure some big name schools in the following chronology of DD's OOC career at NT; but FWIW, most non BCS schools play similar high profile schools each year AND................over the years schools like La Tech, Troy U, Marshall and similar are like the old blind hog and have found an acorn, ie, a win, over one of those "ranked" high profile teams from time to time.
DD's OOC W/L Record @ NT:
1998
L Oklahoma........ 37 NT 9
L Texas Tech.......30 NT 0
L Ariz. St.............34 NT 15
L TAMU................28 NT 9
1999
L UNLV.................26 NT 3 (home opener with decent crowd of which many left at the half because of boring offense)
L LSU...................52 NT 0
W Texas Tech........14 NT 21 (Corky Nelson & Matt Simon had wins over TTech)
L Baylor............... 23 NT 10
L TCU...................27 NT 3
2000
L Baylor................20 NT 7 (largest attendance in Fouts Field history & a time to make big impression with new fans--we didn't)
L Texas Tech.........13 NT 7
L UNLV..................38 NT 0
L Kansas St............55 NT 10
W Samford..............41 NT 6 (Samford is 1-AA)

2001
L TCU.....................19 NT 5
L OU.......................37 NT 10
L Texas Tech...........42 NT 14
L South Florida.........28 NT 10 (USF a football program less than 5 years old)
L Troy U..................18 NT 16 (Troy still 1-AA & making transition to 1-A & not in SBC yet)
2002
L UT........................27 NT 0
W Nichols St.............23 NT 0 (NSU a 1-AA school)
L Alabama................33 NT 7
L TCU.......................16 NT 10
L Arizona..................14 NT 9
L South Florida..........24 NT 17 (USF a football program less than 6 yrs. old)
2003
L OU........................37 NT 3
W Baylor..................52 NT 14 (SMU almost beats BU the next week)
L Air Force................34 NT 21
L Arkansas................31 NT 7
W Troy U.....................0 NT 21
2004
L UT...........................65 NT 0
L FAU.........................21 NT 13 (FAU football program less than 5 yrs. old)
L Colorado..................52 NT 21
L Baylor......................37 NT 14
2005 (9 games played--2 home games left on schedule)
OOC losses to Tulsa, Kansas St., La Tech and LSU
Conference losses to Troy U, ULaLa and FAU (2'nd year in a row)
Just A Little Food For Thought...& once again, insert subliminal "how the hell we going to sell football season tickets in 2006?"
So How Much Capital Is Left For DD @ NT? After continuous radio Mean Green fan/facilities bashing (one of which was an interview on ESPN national radio with a golden opp to brag about what good is happening at UNT? That interview became an opportunity lost), creating an "Us vs NT fans/alums" mentality with his players, still complaining about a short stick given to him at NT, lack of player (now coach's) discipline, seemed and obvious unwillingness to be a positive ambassador or representative of the university with nice things to say about our alma mater of which such an attitude has been known to sell extra tickets to new fans at similar non BCS locales, "You fill in the blanks with what I left out"___________________________________________
CAPITAL LEFT FOR DD @ NT DUE TO AFFOREMENTIONED: $0.00
So is just getting back to a level of being competitive in the Sun Belt Conference going to do it for you and make you feel good about your alma mater? Not with this NT Ex--Class of 1976...
←