QB Thread (merged)

[CorinthEagle]

A lot of that touchdown drive (and you don't have to take my word for it, this is coming directly from the coaches) was getting lucky: many of the plays that were made were done so in spite of bad decisions.  You can't just look at yards and completions when you are judging a quarterback.  So much of what the quarterback does is not visible on the stat column, and that is probably why we, as fans, have such a tough time understanding some of the coaching decisions.

In many ways, that's why Scott Hall was so big for the program.  He knew the right play to call at the line, and that was worth more than a ton of yards and completions.  Just look at the trophy case full of conference championships.

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Someone's been shotgunning the Kool-Aid again.

[mad dog]

Someone's been shotgunning the Kool-Aid again.   

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I am not sure I follow. What in that do you not agree with?

[mad dog]

Andrew had a trophy (actually two with the bowl) and he was in the dog house the next season anyway.  So if it's not yards, not completions, and apparently not wins and losses, what is it?  Calling the right play?  RF calls the plays, and I thought I remembered it coming up a few years ago (Hall's 5th year) that the most our QBs can do at the line is flip the play.  Maybe I remember wrong.

**I don't have that big of a problem with the playcalling, I don't have a problem with not having audibles at the line, I know that the coaches spend hours upon hours every day with this and someone who just watches a game can't see the whole picture, and I know that a coach is not likely to make a decision that he knows is not the best, because it's him that's on the line...I'm just trying to sort this out.

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Go and listen to the latest podcast.

The OC gives the QB two plays (usually a run and a pass), and based on what he sees at the line, the QB either goes with the first play, or checks into the second.

As a coach, I'm sure you know how much more a QB is responsible for than just throwing the ball to a receiver.

[Green Crazy]

A lot of that touchdown drive (and you don't have to take my word for it, this is coming directly from the coaches) was getting lucky: many of the plays that were made were done so in spite of bad decisions.  You can't just look at yards and completions when you are judging a quarterback.  So much of what the quarterback does is not visible on the stat column, and that is probably why we, as fans, have such a tough time understanding some of the coaching decisions.

In many ways, that's why Scott Hall was so big for the program.  He knew the right play to call at the line, and that was worth more than a ton of yards and completions.  Just look at the trophy case full of conference championships.

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But, Wilson was able to correct some of his bad decisions with his athletic ability and get positive yards. The DL was getting pressure on Tech's qb last week (I think from the middle) and Phillips has NO mobility, for this reason he'll get sacked three times by half time.

[KBJ]

That is why we will never win an OOC game and only win SunBelt games b/c of attitudes like that. Phillips did not step up against UT and Woody did, pure and simple.

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**I don't have that big of a problem with the playcalling, I don't have a problem with not having audibles at the line,

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I have read this board for 4 years now and the post are getting further and further from the reality.

Watching the UT game if I was Evans I would have decked Wilson when UT in a unbalanced line strong left with two linebackers on that side, and we only have two blockers on that side, Wilson misses the check to go the other side and hands me the ball.

Or when Jmo got the ball going right with the free safety and the outside linebacker going to be unblocked within 5 yards of the line. Jmo gets picked up and slammed to the ground.

Oh but wait he gets a touchdown so he is the greatest from a great grab by the receiver. The only play that was called correctly was the last pass into the end zone maybe.

Both QB’s called a bad game maybe in practice one of the two got a little smarter and the start.

[mad dog]

I have read this board for 4 years now and the post are getting further and further from the reality.

Watching the UT game if I was Evans I would have decked Wilson when UT in a unbalanced line strong left with two linebackers on that side, and we only have two blockers on that side, Wilson misses the check to go the other side and hands me the ball.

Or when Jmo got the ball going right with the free safety and the outside linebacker going to be unblocked within 5 yards of the line. Jmo gets picked up and slammed to the ground.

Oh but wait he gets a touchdown so he is the greatest from a great grab by the receiver. The only play that was called correctly was the last pass into the end zone maybe.

Both QB’s called a bad game maybe in practice one of the two got a little smarter and the start.

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Bingo.

[KBJ]

No... Phillips ran first team against first team defense.  Woody ran second team against second team defense.

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And some of the game against 3 or 4

[buff64]

Come on guys, after film evaluations and seeing the QB's in practice for over a month plus the spring semester the coaches believe Phillips is the best option. This is their job and their call. They want to win as bad as anyone . Perhaps, this is a ruse and someone else will get the majority of the playing time , but I doubt it. The coaches have alot more riding on this decision than any of us.

[mad dog]

But, Wilson was able to correct some of his bad decisions with his athletic ability and get positive yards.  The DL was getting pressure on Tech's qb last week (I think from the middle) and Phillips has NO mobility, for this reason he'll get sacked three times by half time.

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The trouble with that is that is isn't really "correcting" the problem. Athletic ability can bail you out of certain situations, to be sure. But the coaches are asking more of their quarterbacks than just to bail themselves out... they want a guy who can prosper and not just "get by." They want a guy who can made the right decisions, but that guy has not emerged yet. Thus Coach Dickey's comment about not changing the rotation.

[OldTimer]

Phillips

Ran 6 drives net gain 3 yards, 1 st down

completed 4 of 13 passes for 22 yards

Rushing 2 attemps minus 22 yards

TD's -0-

Wilson

Ran 7 drives net gain 92 yards, 5 1st down

completed 5 of 6 passes for 65 yards

Rushing 7 attemps minus 5 yards

TD's 1

Since I do not have access to the pod cast I am not privy to Flannigan's analysis of the QB's success.

[KBJ]

The trouble with that is that is isn't really "correcting" the problem.  Athletic ability can bail you out of certain situations, to be sure.  But the coaches are asking more of their quarterbacks than just to bail themselves out... they want a guy who can prosper and not just "get by."  They want a guy who can made the right decisions, but that guy has not emerged yet.  Thus Coach Dickey's comment about not changing the rotation.

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Then what about Meager??

I think at LSU last year he was over 200 yards total off.

Looked to call a great game.

[mad dog]

Then what about Meager??

I think at LSU last year he was over 200 yards total off.

Looked to call a great game.

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Meager looked a little rough in practice on Thursday. He missed a wide open James Mitchell in the flat on a naked boot playaction pass. Though he was fully recovered this week, I believe he needed to get back into a rhythm that he never seemed to find during practice this week. I'd look for him to get more of a shot next week.

[Guest JohnDenver]

I don't think anyone would argue that the coaches know best -- because they see every practice and they watch film (hopefully!).

I don't give a rat's ass if Wilson made *some* mistakes against UT. He ran to the wrong side, or handed the ball off in the face of a massive run blitz.. I don't care. That is covered by Dickey saying, "he made mistakes. he knows that. ... " The only time I saw our running game work at all during UT was when Woody was in there.

Phillips made the *same* mistakes. However, when he had wide receivers open, he throw low and off the mark. The WRs never had a chance at YAC. So if Phillips makes the right call and throws the right WR -- but it skips the the WR instead of being in stride -- what does this really buy us? It bought us 3-12 for 22 yards. That is what is bought us.

Woody got lucky on the TD passes? WHO CARES?! Luck is a huge part of the game. It is a huge part of life.

Dickey said it best when he said this: "“Woody did some good things and had a good week of practice,” Dickey said. “It seems like he understands what he did wrong last week.”

Ok... so let's get this straight. Woody "did some good things" and Woody also made some mistakes in the UT game (his FIRST game in a Mean Green uniform). He understands the mistakes. He had a good week of practice ... and Dickey still goes with the guy that didn't produce anything in the UT game?

It is that logic that people (including myself) can't understand. Dickey said it himself .. Woody did good things, made mistakes, understands the mistakes and had a good week of practice.

By all means, let him ride the bench.

[mad dog]

I've said it a lot before, and I'll continue saying it until everyone understands it. The most important thing a QB does at North Texas happens from the time he breaks the huddle until the time he snaps the ball.

You can never tell on a stat sheet how many good decisions he makes, nor can you by casually watching a game. The only way you know that is if you are intimately familiar with the system and have the benefit of film to go back and watch it.

Maybe Woody bought himself a slight edge coming into practice on Monday, I don't know. But on Thursday, given all that he's seen, Coach Dickey went with Phillips to start, and Woody to come off the bench. Either way, if someone all of a sudden clicks with his reads, we're going to see a lot more than one touchdown.

If Woody comes off the bench this week and makes the right reads, you'll see it in the stats column. Trust me.

[Guest JohnDenver]

...The only way you know that is if you are intimately familiar with the system and have the benefit of film to go back and watch it.

You can keep repeating it all you want. The fact is that people don't trust Dickey. They have seen YEARS of him not being able to pick a QB. They have seen YEARS of the "simplifying the game plan" logic and not trusting any QB. This even goes for Hall. The reason Bridges was starting was partly because Hall didn't make the "right" reads and didn't have the experience that Bridges did. There are too numerous examples of this..

It is true that the layman may never know if the QB truly made the right read at the line. However, it is also COMPLETELY possible that our headcoach doesn't truly know if the QB made the right read either.

You are essentially saying for us to have faith in the coach and his decisions -- since we really can't see the decision process. I am saying, that asking for our faith in a sub .500 coach with a history of teeter-tottering QB decisions is probably too much to ask.

If Woody comes off the bench this week and makes the right reads, you'll see it in the stats column.  Trust me.

This is false. We saw in the stat line from the UT game a QB that did well and lead us to a score... Yet he still "made the wrong reads."

[Mean'n'Green07]

The trouble with that is that is isn't really "correcting" the problem.  Athletic ability can bail you out of certain situations, to be sure.  But the coaches are asking more of their quarterbacks than just to bail themselves out... they want a guy who can prosper and not just "get by."  They want a guy who can made the right decisions, but that guy has not emerged yet.  Thus Coach Dickey's comment about not changing the rotation.

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Illuvius,

I know you go to team practices and follow the team more closely than most on this board so with all due respect how can you say Philips didn't get totally out performed. Wilson went 5/6 passing with his first year in this offense. Phillips has had a year with playing experience. The right QB won't emerge in one game, but Wilson really showed he's on the right path. Phillips had some chances to make big plays against Texas too. On a play inside the 20 he got good protection, but just threw it into double coverage which was almost picked in the end zone.

I like your support for the team and support for DD. I'm trying to do the same and want to wait until the OOC schedule to judge his performance. It's hard though, coming off of a devastating season and facing the some of the same exact problems that haven't been fixed coming into this one.

[NCMeanGreen]

I don't think anyone would argue that the coaches know best -- because they see every practice and they watch film (hopefully!).

I don't give a rat's ass if Wilson made *some* mistakes against UT. He ran to the wrong side, or handed the ball off in the face of a massive run blitz.. I don't care. That is covered by Dickey saying, "he made mistakes. he knows that. ... " The only time I saw our running game work at all during UT was when Woody was in there.

Phillips made the *same* mistakes. However, when he had wide receivers open, he throw low and off the mark. The WRs never had a chance at YAC.  So if Phillips makes the right call and throws the right WR -- but it skips the the WR instead of being in stride -- what does this really buy us? It bought us 3-12 for 22 yards. That is what is bought us.

Woody got lucky on the TD passes? WHO CARES?! Luck is a huge part of the game. It is a huge part of life.

Dickey said it best when he said this: "“Woody did some good things and had a good week of practice,” Dickey said. “It seems like he understands what he did wrong last week.”

Ok... so let's get this straight. Woody "did some good things" and Woody also made some mistakes in the UT game (his FIRST game in a Mean Green uniform). He understands the mistakes. He had a good week of practice ... and Dickey still goes with the guy that didn't produce anything in the UT game?

It is that logic that people (including myself) can't understand. Dickey said it himself .. Woody did good things, made mistakes, understands the mistakes and had a good week of practice.

By all means, let him ride the bench.

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Thanks JohnDenver, I was going to type a long response as well, but you just said everything I would have. The end result is what matters, in the end.

Yeah, usually the pass is more effective when it doesn't hit the ground before getting to the receiver, or thrown behind the receiver. Also, I just LOVED MP's floater of a pass into the end zone with 3 UT defenders right there. Actually, shame on them for not inercepting the ball. I am sure Mack was all over them about that...

[MeanGreenNation]

He is just trying to piss of the fans. Not that the fans should influence his decesion, but man sometimes I can't help but wonder if he was just sitting there saying, well I know I should start Woody, but at hate the Mean Green Nation, they don't respect me, I will show them. Phillips will start. If DD wants the respect of the fans he needs to start coaching better.

[tommyp]

I say he will play no more than two drives. By then SMU will be up 10-0 and we will have to rely on Woody to bring us back. I just do not understand DD thoughts?

[tommyp]

I am no football analyst by any means, but what the hell is DD thinking starting Phillips? My 5- year old nephew could put up better numbers than him against Texas.

[THOR]

Phillips shocked us all and played the game of his life, while leading us to a resounding victory over SMUt.....would we still be praying for WW??? just a thought...

[pollock]

I jumped on the Woody bandwagon after the UT game, but I'll say this:

I don't care if we have Roger Staubach under center. The only thing that matters is winning this game.

[medpilot21]

No offense brother, but there is already a thread running with these complaints...

GMG!!!

[medpilot21]

Phillips shocked us all and played the game of his life, while leading us to a resounding victory over SMUt.....would we still be praying for WW???  just a thought...

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Funny, but we are all praying for that very thing... we CANNOT lose to SMU.

GMG!!!

[Guest JohnDenver]

This is a conversation I had with my lovely wife this week while in the car.

She turned to me and said:

"I used to think that if we played our best and the UT's of the world played their worst... and the moons were alligned just right... that WE COULD win those games. You would tell me that I am wrong, but I didn't see it.. I really understand now."

It is like a child discovering there isn't a Santa Claus.. I felt sad for her discovery.

My wife is the most knowledgable football wife. I love her passion for my passion.