Cr1028

But @Ben Gooding, aren't we still 9 months from signing day? If the kids follow my scenario and leave at the first offer that isn't ours because they feel we've "thrown shade" their way, won't we be stuck scrambling for more zero offer guys, thus perpetuating what we were trying to avoid?

Here's another question. Are we sabotaging ourselves to some degree? Obviously some recruits parents and recruits themselves have been to this board because they registered and posted. Are we shooting ourselves in the foot by ragging on this recruiting class before it has signed? 17 year old football stars have a tendency to have a high degree of self-worth. When we say things like, "I don't like this recruit because he doesn't have any FBS offer but ours" or "this recruit isn't any good because no other coach thought he was good enough to be offered", don't you think as soon as a comparable or"better" offer comes along that recruit will jump to the new scholarship because the UNT fan base never really wanted me anyway? Remember we are not talking about life-experienced middle aged men here. We are talking about 17 year olds who have been told they are the greatest their entire life. Just a question. What say you? Is this even plausible? Is this the old, "when you expect to fail, you will be correct every time" type of deal?

Don't forget they also get a degree with Rice printed on it. That certainly helps for the players that can get in.

McBride and that running back were being pursued by the likes of Cornell and Duke. While I am proud of the education I received at UNT, I know full well that, on paper, it doesn't stack up to a degree from Rice. This is a good push by Baliff but their ranking will fall as other teams fill their classes. Any time you see David Baliff has a better class than Kirby Smart and Nick Saban, you know the whole story isn't being told.

I don't think so. It just gives places like UT a reason to puff their chest out until the regular season starts and they start losing again.

You're talking correlation not causation. Higher rated classes don't necessarily have more wins, ask Todd Dodge. Lower rated classes don't necessarily mean failure either, look at old man Snyder at KSU.

So is the problem every coach we've had over the last 2 decades or is the problem North Texas?

So you are projecting failure and then state we are literally regressing based on your projection?

I'm guessing you need a good recruiter to satisfy your coaching needs. Call Todd Dodge, he was the best recruiter we've had in the last twenty years and has the worst record in our history to go along with those fine recruiting classes.

I'm not saying everything is fine. I'm saying let coach do his thing and let's see how it pans out on the field. If he string together several UTEP games like Mac did in his last two seasons, Il be right there with you. For now, I think we should hold off on the he sucks talk since he has coached just one season and has just two signed recruiting classes in.

Yet. 9 months and a full season to go. You think I should be worried but I am not worried at all because all I need to know of Littrell is that he took our 1 win (worst in FBS) team and made them a 5 win team in less than a year.

Maybe because we are 9 months from signing day and offers are still going out. There is an entire season to be played. A season that will see some recruits have a breakout while others will disappoint. A season that will see many coaches fired and related offers rescinded. All it takes is for Kliff to get fired at Tech and the new coach to like Martin and he is gone. Then it will be how we couldn't hold onto a commit but for now he is a recruit we shouldn't want because he doesn't have multiple FBS offers 9 months before signing day. Do I have it all correct?

How about if he wins the west division of CUSA, 8 games, or a bowl game, would you shut up then? Or would the wins be hollow because they were with players the "recruiting experts" thought were no good.

With an attitude like that, you'll never have a coach worth a damn sign with you. If Wren Baker has the same mindset as you, look for 15 more years of RV-like success. 1-10(worst FBS to FCS loss in history) to 5-8 and a close bowl game loss and you are worried because our class doesn't rank well with a bunch of dipshits like Geoff Ketchum. Give me a freaking break.

Yes please!

You mean the FCS team with 5 consecutive national championships this decade having a worse recruiting class than a team that hasn't won a fbs conference championship in a bottom-feeder conference in 12 years and just one winning season in that span? I guess it is a little surprising. The only way to fix this program's recruiting is a two-pronged attack. You are going to have to first win with the players you have and can get, and second you are going have to get one of those players drafted each year or every other year. Then and only then will you see us pulling big offer list kids. You can complain all you want but I guarantee you that Frank Wilson, unless he is using questionable tactics, would have the exact same problems here as Littrell does. If our recruiting sucks so bad, then why in hell would P5 schools be interested but in hiring our coaches away with such poor results? Think about it. There is a stigma about our university that we are too prideful to realize sometimes. The problem didn't start overnight and it cannot be fixed overnight. Ben, I hope you grow some patience or learn to get out like 90 did because you are set to be a rat in a wheel bud. Until some things change around here, every new coach will have the same problems going forward that every coach since our return to fbs has had. Littrell is the best coach we have had in a long time. He is a rising star. And the only metric he should be measured by is wins and losses because that is what he is paid to do. He is here to win on the scoreboard, not on rivals or 247. If he wins on some bs recruiting site, that is a bonus but the only metric that should matter is following the rules and winning.

I don't know when they became a power but NDSU has had nine players drafted since 2002. You may be unaware but the average rating for players in our class was better than NDSU's for the '17 class. .7789 to .7599. The fact that Orr did not get drafted is just another tool in the tool chest for those recruiting against us. Hey look, this guy was all conference, turned out to be an all pro and still couldn't get drafted because he went to North Texas. If he had gone to our fine institution of "fill in the blank university", he surely would've been drafted. You are thinking if you have a good enough salesman, you can get a businessman who wants and has money for a new Mercedes and can talk him into a used Kia. I just don't think that is the case.

@Caw Caw Javaris Steward was indicted on felony charges and best I can tell they are working on some sort of plea deal. As far as recruiting goes, you can't put all this on Littrell and co. What do the players with all the stars and offers expect to do with that fancy degree they get? not a damn thing! They are looking straight at their pie-in-the-sky NFL dreams. North Texas has had one player, yes, ONE DAMN PLAYER selected in the NFL draft from 1996 til today. That's right 1 player in the last 22 years or the entirety of every single recruit's life and all but a few of the players on our roster. Rice had 11 and LaTech had 20 in that same span. UTSA had one drafted last year and FAU has had 7 drafted in the last 8 years, including a 3rd rounder this year. The recruits we are after weren't even in kindergarten yet when Cody Spencer was drafted. You show me the finest recruiter in the world selling one draft pick in 22 years versus a grad assistant selling 7 in the last 8 years including a 3rd rounder this year and I'm telling you the grad assistant would win every time. Blame Dickey for the 8 years out of 9 he didn't have a draft pick, Dodge for the 4 years he didn't and McCarney for the 5 years he didn't. We've been behind the 8-ball for a long time and unless Littrell gets some of these under-recruited players to the league, we will continue to be behind that 8-ball for many more years and the next coach will have the same recruiting issues. This is our problem for better or worse.

Top google search for green Texas flag. http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=23627 Are we doing ourselves any favors with a flag that such a small percentage of the population would understand? Everybody can read and many more would recognize the SOW as belonging to us than the battle flag. I'm a diehard alum and still barely know what the battle flag represents (it represents all the shades of green we've used and is flown by the Talons).

He said son of worm, which is the logo on our helmets. Makes sense to me since that is what people see when they see us play on tv. I think you are overestimating the number of folks outside of the hardcore that would recognize a green Texas flag as related to us.

"The North Texas flag was designed by sports promotions director Jim Hobdy in 1986 and became a recognized university symbol. Today, the Talons wave the largest version of the flag at football games." So the Talons waving it is what makes it a big deal? I just thought one of the fans came up with it because I only see it at some of the tailgate spots. That blurb doesn't really tell me much about the tradition or importance of the flag. It just says it was created in 1986 and is waved by the Talons. I get the SOW and the interlocking NT because I've seen them used officially in several places. I still don't get the battle flag. Can one of you that hold it dear explain it to me in a way that goes further than, "it looks cool and the Talons fly it"?

Regardless of how he got here and if he will bring additional fans, he is another link to that Guyer pipeline and that is a good thing.

I am an alumnus and have never been educated on the tradition or importance of the battle flag.

Sorry about that. Thank you for correcting me.