untjim1995

That single play stand out as the most frustrating play I have ever watched as a fan--including any sport or team that I root for every day of my life. Nothing beats it. It is 180 degrees from watching Nelson Cruz's home run to beat the Yankees in game 6 of the ALCS this year.

Boise also had a stadium and a city that could host a bowl game, which was attractive to the WAC, especially since their bowl ties-in were evaporating quickly. The winning part was great, as well, which made it an easy sell to the other teams in the conference. The same can be said of Utah. They don't host a bowl game--yet--but their stadium is very nice, especially since the Winter Olympics were there back in 2002, as are their other facilities. In both cases, too, those conferences got another state's major team and their fanbases to get eyeballs watching those games. Idaho may not be a populous state, but if most of its citizens are watching the Broncos play, the whole conference gets extra attention. heck, even if Fresno State is playing Nevada, people in Idaho will watch closely, thus helping ratings and increasing media coverage. It certainly works that way in Utah and Colorado, too, and the Pac-12 will get two growing states in their market now that will help boost ratings and coverage. Without dealing with the headache that would have been UT, even with all of its TV sets and T-shirt alumni, the Pac-12 did just fine in my opinion, especially on the football field, where their teams will still have a very strong chance of playing for a national championship every year. All of this is to say, that even if we ever do start to win in the SBC again, we know that we still have to beat other name teams, as well, and even that still won't guarantee us getting into another conference. I just think that the other Texas schools in non-AQ leagues have very little interest in ever being in a conference with us, just like La Tech feels about the other LA schools. It for this very reason that I want TCU to move up to the Big East and for SMU to take their place in the MWC (small chance). This scenario may very well be our easiest--and only--path to joining CUSA at some point down the line.

PMG, I agree on your goal of having UNT reach for higher aspirations, especially since you personally saw this university do just that back in the 70s. But one thing you wrote caught my attention that I think is wrong. You mentioned that at UNT, we have kept on with doing the same things over and over with our football program, while expecting better results. I think it is fairly easy to look back over the last 30+ years at the university's track record and view of athletics in general and come to the realization that no one expected better results. As a matter of fact, I will argue that most of the administration and alumni didn't care one bit if they got better at all. Nor did the City of Denton. It seems to me that the reason we have to even talk about baby steps in the SBC is because we allowed ourselves to get in this situation. From watching Fry leave, to not hiring his best recommendation at the time to keep progress moving forward, to allowing the program to drop to I-AA, to moving up to 1-A with a toilet of a stadium without any concrete plans to build a new one for 15 years, to hiring 2 HS coaches and 2 coaches with no prior HC experience, to having nowhere else to go but to the SBC to have football even stay alive here at UNT, etc...this place has never even tried to be serious about this program. Yes, we will get a new stadium and it will be very nice. But if we cannot find a coach with name recognition to come here and we cannot even finish in the top half of the SBC, then I expect this university's culture to come fully into effect and keep the program down--in other words, continue to give up. Winning the SBC is a must, no doubt. But before we can even dream of doing that, we have got to figure out a way to finish at least .500 in league play. Sadly, this is why we have to use SBC as a metric now. We have literally no other choice, even if we hire Leavitt, Franchione, or someone like them.

PMG, We don't have any choice for the next few years. This is our home until either TCU or SMU leave their respective conferences, and even then, it might still be the SBC for us even longer.

I'll go ahead and say never on this one and I will feel pretty confident about it. Two blackballings over the course of 30+ years that have kept us out of their conference tells me that this is true. And that series in football will get bought out quickly if it starts to benefit us more than them. Money will always talk.

I think that we should do this, too, but then again, I think UTSA and TSU-SM should both be in the SBC. They both would finally give us a chance to develop some in-state rivalries that will never happen with the other Texas schools.

Don't forget another Texas school---SMU hired June Jones after he took HAWAII to a BCS bowl

SMU had name value, though, from its glory (cheating) years and they have always been able to convince other conferences that they can get you some part of the Dallas market. When you look at their coverage in the DMN or on The Ticket, you can see where the media attention is at least there. Realizing it is behind Big XII, other AQ teams, and even with TCU, SMU still has something for a confernece, not to mention lots and lots of money. Look, I hate them, too. They are arrogant, powerful, and live in the distant past, but I also know what they bring to the table. We will never be in a conference with them.

This is dead-on. No conference is taking us if we still only win 2-3 games in football, even with a new stadium. The harder part about this is that Troy and MUTS have really moved forward with their programs, and FAU and Arky State have had success, too, while our program jumped off the cliff. FIU and ULL are in situations where the right coach can make a move up the ladder in the Belt, as well. But for us to move upward, it will only start with moving up the SBC standings. Unless we win another 2 games, this will be the 6th straight year of 3 wins or less. This has been accomplished while being a part of the worst conference in FBS football.

I agree that the SBC has fun trips to Miami, but the MWC has stops in San Diego, Las Vegas, Reno, Albuquerque, and Colorado. Each of those stops can be reached rather cheaply via Southwest Airlines. Plus, the additional money and interest would be substantial in the MWC. It wouldn't be Big West Part II, like the WAC would have been. It really doesn't matter, though. The MWC ain't inviting us to the party anytime to soon. UTEP has history with those teams and a big market that revolves around the university and UH has everything that we could offer in a market, but with more tradition, support, and resources. They would each get a call before we would, as would SMU. If we can get into CUSA, though, your southeastern road trips would still be intact, so that would be good, too!!

Classy

Great article. There are many pieces to that article that need to done at UNT now. Raise the salaries of the coaches--all of them. Get the administration involved in athletic events like Wefald would do in Manhattan. Support the coach fully. Now, the major difference here, though, is one that UNT really cannot copy to help themselves with right now and that is the built-in advantage that KSU had in conference affiliation. Just like USF, these two teams basically got built from the ground up, but they had the ability to sell to recruits, fans, and and coaches that you can come here and play in a conference that not only matters, but it will get you great attention when we win. K-State had home games, no matter how pitiful they were, against Nebraska, OU, and CU every other year. Those teams were always involved in the Top Ten--or higher. At USF, the same thing basically happened there, too, with Louisville, West Virginia, and Rutgers all moving up in the rankings as USF got going in the Big East. If you start scheduling appropriately during the OOC, as K-State did for their program, it got people's interest to see how that would translate once conference season began and you knew the Huskers were coming to town as the #1 ranked team. Even if UNT scheduled OOC like K-State did to get some wins for the program, the fans and media here in the area aren't going to get too excited about Sun Belt play, especially since no one has ever been ranked from this league.

Seriously, mods, how does this not merit a suspension? Surely you don't think that this is a post that should just get by without any response?

Here's my $.02 on Leavitt. I would be ecstatic if we hired him, just as I would a Coach Fran or Kragthorpe for the HFC position. The difference is that the latter two took over dormant losing programs and almost instantly turned them into winners. Leavitt did wonders starting up the program at USF, but he always had "promise" to sell to recruits. Leavitt knew that USF, once they were about to become a Division 1 school, was already in CUSA and that their location, Tampa, would be intriguing to other BCS leagues if "movement" occurred. He also saw the administration show an amazing commitment to moving upward in a Metro Area that had no major university to support and really only 4 other FBS schools in-state to recruit against. Maybe none of that matters and he would be a great coach here, too. But, what I fear is that Leavitt did great at USF because he literally built the thing up from the ground. Here, at UNT, we already have stuff (i.e., losing, poor conference, media apathy) that he has to come in and deal with circumstances that are completely different from his tenure at USF. Again, Coach Fran and Kragthorpe have shown the ability to come into situations that are similar to ours currently and immediately move the needle. Leavitt probably would do just fine here because he is an outstanding coach, but I worry that his previous head coaching job was completely different from anything he will jump into in his next endeavor.

Be careful. There are plenty of folks around here that would be just fine with that. If you think otherwise, ask yourself this question. If the students got a chance to vote on that fee again, how many would vote for it and how many faculty members would stand up against it a little bit louder than last year? I think the answer is fairly obvious to me, plus the city of Denton ain't exactly rushing down to the Athletic Department to make sure that it is supported properly.

Sifting through this weekend's posts and I ran across this gem. This is without a doubt, IMO, the absolute worst post I have ever read on here, and I have been a lurker/poster since 2001. Congratulations on your epic fail of a post.

Best post I have read on this subject. Show us that the university is committed fully and the rest will take care of itself. It really isn't rocket science. Both TCU and SMU have shown this to be true, so we should not be any different.

See, to me, that list shows the exact opposite of what you support. Simon coaches high school football now because no one will hire him. Dickey has been an OC at Utah State and UNM, of which he will soon be looking for another job soon. Even Jerry Moore never had a lick of success as a FBS coach. Now, your assistants that got listed have definitely sprung upward--but the head coach position here has been a mortuary for their careers after UNT. Of course, that has everything to do with funding and support before now. A new stadium and funding with it will improve our position greatly. From Norm's view, without following this program much over the last few years or having any reason whatsoever to do so, I am sure he thinks that Boise and USF and TCU all hired great young, unproven head coaches and they all have worked for those schools, so UNT should follow. The only issue there is that our situation is nothing like any of those other three. Boise has great civic support, TCU has money, tradition, and recruiting, and USF has conference affiliation and recruiting to take advantage of for a newer coach. The only advantage that those schools share with UNT is recruiting, and since we are one of ten schools in Texas, which isn't counting out of state competition for recruits, we really haven't ever been able to make that a real plus here at UNT. We will never have the civic support here of Boise (ever), nor the money of TCU (ever), but we have some tradition, a great new facility coming next season, and the recruiting opportunity here that would make your point about hiring a bigger name make sense much more than doing the typical UNT hiring of just a guy for the HFC position. IN reality here, it seems very clear and simple to me. We either show we want football to be a bigger player than it ever has been at UNT by hiring and paying for a proven coach and staff, or we tell everyone that this new stadium will be awesome on the FCS level because we really just don't want to move upward.

This turned into the worst thread I have ever read on this board and that's saying something. I think our fanbase is delusional if the name Chris Petersen shows up on a wish list. I can only imagine the laughter on other boards around the country at him being listed on this wish list. Peterson has to make a very high salary and bonus at Boise (surely it comes close to a million dollars, if not more, as a package). We need to make a nice hire here, for sure. But Chris Petersen is a Top 10 coach in the country. I would put him up there with Saban, Meyer, Stoops, Tressel, Mack Brown and Gary Patterson as some of the best program leaders in college football. He has proven that he can build up a program to even greater heights than where it was when he took over for several years. We need Franchione, Kragthorpe, one of the Bowdens, Glen Mason, or someone like this to get the ball rolling here. For each one of those guys, a package of $500K would get any of them and have $$$$ left to spare. But just stop with the Mike Leach and Chris Petersen stuff. It ain't happening here.

That's great that you care about both. How many others are like you, though? My guess is not many who attend a COM event would consider going to a football game and vice versa. When the administration and faculty and town have mostly supported the COM over the athletics dept., you see why you get posts like the one you responded to earlier. I wish it wasn't about either/or, but it usually is about either/or when it comes to UNT and Denton.

How do you do this (in the bold)? In the last 10 years, we have seen a big change in attitude from the President's to the AD and watched it filter down to the alumni and students and it ahs been great. But, it would take an even bigger tilt toward athletics by the BOR and the Chancellor and lots of the faculty to really make an even bigger impact. How do you do that when apathy has ruled forever here? I really am iterested to hear what people think we should do about it and when we would see the fruits of that culture change actually put us where we dream of being in both the short-term (CUSA) and long-term (AQ).

You know, if this is really true about the BOR, then it just isn't really going to happen at UNT for football. Seeing how you are the longest standing fan of this school, you probably feel like this already, but it is just so disheartening that our BOR and the Chancellor take the stance that they do and there really is nothing that can be done about it. In reality, our school will continue to grow because of its location and academics, so the chancellor and the BOR don't have to do anything on those fronts to make athletics be in better than it is. The growth is already there, in the minds of these simpletons, and they don't care if the music school only draws 500 people for a recital while UNT Football attracts 20k to the town and back on campus. Because, in their minds, we are a teachers school and a music school and football is better to be watched at UT or somewhere else. I will tell you this, its enough to make people want to just give up if the mindset continues to prevail.

I have always taken the view that T-shirt fans are fine--as long as you don't put another team above your alma mater. I grew up a huge Kansas Jayhawk fan. Obviously, that has worked out great for me in hoops, not so much in footbal over the last 30+ years. I wear KU gear from time to time, but when KU and UNT play each other, there is no pull for me to cheer against my alma mater at all. The problem most of us have with T-shirt alumni isn't supporting another school you like. But, when OU, UT, A&M, or Tech play UNT and the alumni of UNT openly cheer for those other schools because they are cool, they have history, they have a winning team currently, or because Grandma is from there, that is where the line gets crossed. I think it is fair if you have an AQ-BCS favorite team and a non-AQ favorite, since the playing field is usually so vastly different. Comparing UNT to UT is insane on any athletic level imaginable. I think the same thing about TCU and A&M, even though TCU has been much better recently. Historically speaking, the level of support is not close. Because of that, I can see how you can cheer for both pretty easily. Just my $.02!!

quote name='Cr1028' date='05 October 2010 - 07:31 PM' timestamp='1286325105' post='514881'] If I were going to bet the house. 1. <5% 2. <5% 3. 40% 4. >50%

With so much laying on the line for the 2011 season and beyond, I started thinking about where we will be in five years, based upon a presumed change at head coach after this season. The scenarios are just so varied, but I wanted to get everyone's thoughts on the future direction of the football program, after this season. See which one seems more likely to you. 1.Scenario One We hire Dennis Franchione (or someone like him) as the new coach and he immediately wins. This would be interesteing as I believe that he might just stay here for a while, since he has been knocked back down the ladder. Very similar to the Hayden Fry hire/tenure at UNT. 2.) Scenario Two We hire a Coach Fran type and we still keep losing. This is my absolute worst fear. We pay up for a name coach, who then comes here and does nothing at all. We stay at the bottom of the SBC, thus causing our school's administration to go back to its cheap view of football/athletics. 3.)Scenario Three We hire an assistant with no head coach experience, who then succeeds greatly as a head coach (think Urban Meyer at Bowling Green). We have a great 2-3 years here, but then that first-time coach moves on and we have to keep the coaching carousel working to keep success here. Boise State has done it, but no one else jumps out at me as being successful steadily in this situation. 4.)Scenario Four We hire an assistant with no head coaching experience, but he doesn't cost much and we get another Dickey-type hire, where we could have a winning season, but it isn't until about year 5 or so. This basically continues our current view of athletics at UNT. What do you think the odds are at UNT, based upon all variables that we know of currently, that each scenario plays out? I think that Scenario one has about a 25% chance, Scenario two is at about 25%, Scenario 3 is at about 50%, while scenario 4 is at about 50%, too. Any thoughts?