untjim1995

The fact is that a good amount of attendants to North Texas home games come just to wait for the halftime performance and then leave. That is what happens when your school and town have decided for decades to put the main emphasis on using music and arts as the university's window instead of athletics. The Green Brigade is probably awesome--I have never had even one reason to believe otherwise, but I also believe that a band's sole purpose at an athletic event is to play the fight song, the alma mater, and other songs that get the crowd going, which also incorporates the halftime performance. I have never had a reason to ever care about what the band wore or their halftime performance because, get this, I got to a football stadium to watch the football game. The band being there is secondary to that, in my opinion. Same with going to the Super Pit for a hoops game. As a matter of fact, I like the direction the basketball pep band has gone versus when I was in school because they appear to have a lot of fun at games. Now, if there is a big marching performance between UNT and SMU at Apogee someday, I'll want our band to kill theirs--which wouldn't be hard, I'm sure. But I believe we are the only school in this state that has put more into music and arts instead of our athletic programs, so maybe that is why the rest of the state looks at us as if we are some kind of pariah when it comes to being conference members with us. Sure, alums of other schools like their band (A&M, Rice, Texas, and Tech all come to mind), but they really like their football teams much more. That's not how it is here in Denton. I love listening to the bands at the big schools play their fight songs and seeing them dot their i's or whatever the other traditions are, but its because they have great teams or great history at the highest levels of college athletics--we don't. I can promise you that no band uniform, no marching performance, and no other non-football related activity will ever change the fact that until we decide that North Texas Football must be a winner and play better-known competition that other fans care about, the attendance at SBC games and games against Texas Southern will continue to stay about the same--and we call can see how well other conferences think about our school as a potential conference mate. Winning halftime with a performance that would make the Music Department proud is awesome, but we will continue to get to play teams that surround that terrific halftime performance from towns like Troy and Mobile Alabama, Murfreesboro, TN, Jonesboro, AR, and Monroe, LA for decades to come if we don't continue trying to get our team to be relevant in major college football circles. Not trying to hurt the music folks feelings here, but if this was about our band, we would be in the Big XII right now, based on what others tell me how good our Green Brigade is compared to other bands. But having a poorly supported football team gets you the Sun Belt and apparently very little hope of ever getting to move upward, which in the end, costs the entire university and city millions of dollars in opportunities lost.

I think if a western slot opens up, the folks in Logan, Utah are going to get it. There is no presence in that state anymore and the Mountain Network needs that state. I doubt San Jose State will get anymore consideration than we do. The hardest thing to accept about this all to me is that absolutely no one in college football above our level thinks we bring anything to their conference. Location, enrollment, alumni size, improved results, great facilities, etc...I guess it means nothing to CUSA or the MWC folks. The real question here is WHY NOT? Why can't we get anyone to see this all and say that we are a school that should be added? Is it just because of football's poor record during the latter Dickey years and the Dodge era? Because if it is, that seems amazingly short-sighted. As a matter of fact, I don't buy that as an excuse. Anyone with half a brain could look at the attendance bump we have enjoyed since Dodge came here and now with Coach Mac and the new stadium and see that if we got to play teams from a better-known league that we could draw even better. I just don't get it. I will say it again, but the more I look at our situation, the more the reality sets in with me that Apogee Stadium probably saved our football program, but it won't save us from staying at this level of football, whether that continues as FBS in the future or not.

A&M never played at SMU, just at Kyle Field. They bought out the return game in Dallas. However, Tech was a regular with SMU for transfere a while as a home and home. As far as the 5 game home schedule, I would be just fine with it if the home OOC game was a strong opponent (either an AQ school or a team like Boise, BYU or AFA). But having your only home OOC game being against a bad FCS team in Texas Southern, who probably won't bring anyone to Denton--unlike Sam Houston, who will probably win the FCS title this weekend and will have some great momentum to play off of in 2012--just stinks, especially when you also offer the fans a great selection of home games from the well-thought-of SBC. Again, if we average 15k next season in attendance, I will be thrilled. You aren't going to get folks to pay time and money for home games against, Texas Southern, South Alabama, Troy, Louisiana-Lafayette, and Arkansas State. Look at this year, even with a bowl possibility still in play, a Saturday night game against Western Kentucky drew nothing. Its doubtful that this upcoming year will be much different, attendance-wise. And that is why UNT90 is dead-on about this--if this is our 2012 schedule, the AD better have a very good explanantion and it better mean 2013 bring us a nice home schedule.

The more I read this thread, the more I am beginning to realize that we are just always going to be a SBC team for a long time. We run our AD as if we have the perfect conference for a program in the Metroplex, when in fact, we are in the worst possible conference for our location to draw fans out to Apogee. We just schedule poorly and we look at ourselves very lowly. If UTSA can recruit kids (with that future schedule, I would assume they will) that can get results done, they WILL move upward before we do. They have a facility that can hold a lot of fans and a destination city to get teams to visit. And on another program's schedule, I believe that Texas State have a future HOME GAME against Texas Tech? Oh well, we got Texas Southern... whoosh

The opening game between Oregon and LSU was a neutral site game at Jerry World. Yes, starting out against a SEC or Big XII powerhouse is small time. But, hopefully the $750K payout will clear the bank...

I am going to start this off by simply saying that the NCAA Basketball Tournament is the best sporting playoff in the country and its not close. I particulary love the College World Series, as well, since it follows the same pattern as college basketball. Unfortunately, football will never work like this because of the money (and media coverage) involved. But both of those sports are much different animals than football--and its why a new separation will occur again. I still think that if your school plays in front of an average of 50k then you shouldn't be on the same level as schools that average 25k or less. There are about 40-50 programs in the country that really should just get a classification of NFL-Lite, based on resources and fanbase, as well as tradition. They already get all of the attention from fans and media on a national level. Somehow, I imagine that 50k line in attendance (or at least 40K) will somehow become a new line in the sand.

If that tree and its new coach show up to our forest and we chop that tree down, will anyone outside of this board care? What if that tree and its new coach come over to our forest and it turns out we can't even chop that it down? I'll be this board will care then...

Just curious as to how SMU got the opportunity to play OSU in the doubleheader at the AAC last night instead of our program. Was it just a money thing, where SMU just bought their way in or did the organizers of this doubleheader feel that SMU had more name recognition than we do? Either way, SMU played a good game last night (for them) against the Pokes, but nobody with even a pulse can say that the Ponies have a better hoops program than we do. I just don't get it...

I have always contended that Louisville and BYU will eventually get in the Big XII, assuming it stays alive. BYU needs the cash from its deal right now as an independent, but that will evenutally fade, as their football team muddles into mediocrity with the poor schedule issues that will only get worse as time moves on. If BYU doesn't succumb to this, though, and stays indy, I would imagine that Cincy would then be the next pick, since they have been to two BCS bowls and have a solid hoops program.

I know you are correct about all of this, but it really magnifies your username...

Could you imagine the attendance of a bowl game in Denton involving a SBC team and a MWC team? A game between Western Kentucky and UNLV might draw about 1500 people, including the bands. Now if said bowl could get a Big XII spot and get Texas or OU in there, Dentonites would probably fall all over themselves to get Apogee for the only time in their life.

What are you talking about? This Ohio State mess will get some serious attenion on future infractions committed at lots of MAC, WAC, SBC, CUSA, and MWC schools...Troy, Ohio U.,and La Tech better watch out!!

This is so true about ESPN. They are the true governor of college football. Their money talks and they need Texas, Ohio State, Alabama, USC, etc..to be available for TV. NCAA really should just admit this.

I like set shots and granny-style FT shooting, too. All while wearing Chuck Taylors...no need for those fancy dunks or that crazy thing called a 3-point shot. How ridiculous can these hip-hop folks be these days, comprende?

Go Frogs--a TCU blowout would be in the best interests of our program. If LaTech beats mighty TCU on national TV, CUSA officials would probably find that very appealing. But, if you want the best for the SBC, which is keeping UNT in it, then by all means root for LaTech. They'll have a very nice case for getting support to join CUSA from the other members.

I think we can all agree that the best case scenario here is that we get that invite to CUSA, with the next best possibility being to get invited to the MWC. The worst case scenario is for CUSA to expand with La Tech. Most of us believe that we are the perfect fit here, but La Tech has more name recognition because of their success in recent years. By the way, this is why we should root big-time for TCU to destroy them in their bowl game--anything that makes them look good (and a bowl win over a ranked TCU team would do that big time) is a huge punch to the gut for us. If we were to be stuck in the SBC as it currenty sits, with no local teams to help with attendance issues and travel costs, our situation will not get any better long-term. Again, I know people hate the idea of playing in a conference with UTSA and Texas State, but the upside of finally getting in-state conference mates that provides easy travel for fans is huge to me. A SBC with La Tech, Texas State, UTSA, and NMSU would make me feel much better about staying in the SBC. But if La tech got the final CUSA spot, the SBC would have no reason to expand, so we would still not have a conference mate closer than Monroe, LA to play against for many years to come. I think it has become rather obvious that nobody travels of major note from any of the SBC schools to Denton, the SBC provides nothing in the form of a decent contract for TV (exposure and $$$), nor does the SBC excite anyone outside of the hearty 10k fans who basically support this program. It just keeps us on the perpetual wheel of irrelevance that we have always been on for decades. This isn't even factoring in the very real possibility that the MWC and CUSA will probably have some or all of its members stay as FBS programs if a new line ever gets drawn again on who gets to stay at the top level of college football and who get re-classified.

You know, in football, you haven't even been able to talk about our school being anything above 8th until this year in the SBC. As many have posted, this was a nice message to CUSA that we are included with SMU and TCU (for now) as FBS members. Those two schools have both been invited, joined, found success, and then bolted CUSA--how nice is it to actually tell that CUSA office in town that we want to be like them, which is why we will continue to improve in football. And, oh by the way, our basketball program is better than anything those two ever produced for your conference, which is HIGHLY DEPENDENT on men's hoops (see Memphis, UTEP, and Tulsa as examples). This might very well be the first public salvo that has been fired from UNT to CUSA about deserving membership in their conference. And make no mistake about it, we do deserve it, and CUSA will be making a mistake by not inviting us over to fill the void in the DFW market.

So, I think I'm right about this, but I believe the 2012 home schedule will be Texas Southern, South Alabama, Troy, Arkansas State, and Louisiana-Lafayette. My question is this: Will we draw 20k for any of those games? I guess if we beat one of the brand names in the OOC, it would be probable, but assuming we don't beat LSU, KSU, or UH, I just don't see the season average for attendance being over 17k, even if we do win in the SBC. Great timing for a program that should be trying desperately to get a step-up during confernece realignment so as not to be left behind.

If this happens, I will probably just give up on ever seeing us play above glorified FCS-level ball. For the life of me, how either of those conferences can look at the DFW market and say that they dont need a presence there anymore, but we really need to add the Ruston, LA market or the all-important Logan, Utah market, is just mind-boggling. That is just poor business on every level. I know that we have sucked big time since 2005, but how hard would it be for those two conferences to look at the huge state school in a gigantic market with a brand new stadium and not say that they could bring a lot more to the conference if they got to actually play in a league with teams that people have actually heard of and care about to some degree? CUSA or MWC play would be a huge leap upward from the SBC for our fanbase. Even if it got us from averaging 15k per game to 20k, that is a huge leap. If we cannot get above the SBC for our program, then we really need to ask why we can't and what our future needs to look like going forward. More and more, I fear the exclusion of our program from FBS is much closer than anyone believes. Because if this merger get approved and somehow gets BCS-AQ status just to keep litigation away, I can easily see the NCAA closing the door at the 90 or so teams that would be in the power 7 conferences, plus Notre Dame and BYU. If that happens, I wouldn't want to be the guy answering the questions on why North Texas spent 78 million on a stadium for a program that is in FCS.

Such a HIP-HOP response...comprende?

It would be fine with me, too, especially compared to the teams you listed. But I know those $$$ games ahve to be played, so we need to replace those three opponents with teams that we actually compete with every once in a while. Its the other Texas schools that I am talking about. I know that many people have some grand idea of playing in a conference with UH, SMU, TCU, and Rice someday, but they all can't make it more clear how little they want to do with us. It makes absolutely no sense to me at all. Hell, I wouldv'e expected UTEP to stand up and politic for us to join CUSA, just to have a DFW game, but even they aren't saying a word on our behalf, at least not publically.

Just when I thought this thread couldn't get more depressing...if its true that we are not playing a game at Houston because we have been replaced by Texas State, then there is no more clear statement on how the more established Texas schools look at us than this scenario. We have played Houston exactly twice since we moved back up to FBS in 1995, both in Denton. We have never been given a return game in Houston. It is not hard to recognize that UH absolutely wants nothing to do with playing us if we have a shot at being good. If we win, its a shocker, but if they win, its no big deal. Now that they (UH) are about to take a step back with their program, their AD replaces us with Texas freaking State. This is exactly what Tech did when Leach got there and they stopped playing us after his first two years and started playing SMU every year, just perfectly timed to when we went to NO Bowls and SMU was doing good to win 3 games. Speaking of SMU, this is exactly what I expect them to do, too, if we get our act together again on the football field. Oh we'll play them a couple of times or more, but I doubt that series of 8 games ever gets fully played out if we are better than them. They'll buy us out early and then schedule UTSA. The more this crap occurs to us, the more it makes me hate college football. And, yes, I totally agree that most of this is due to our own mismanagement of athletics are just accepting the status quo for decades. But it doesn't make it right that we consistently get the shaft with these other Texas schools. I will say this, though. There is another Texas school that is going to feel a huge backlash in future scheduling from the other Texas schools and that is A&M. The other Big XII schools are never going to play them again, and I doubt UH or SMU are going to jump up and down about scheduling them, either in OOC games. Basically, that leaves Texas State, UTSA, UTEP, and Rice for them to play along with us. Maybe that's who we should talk to about scheduling some OOC games with again, maybe those Aggies will appreciate someone from the state actually wanting to play them in a lot of sports. It has to better to try something like this than to just constantly get reminded that all of the other schools in the old SWC are adamantly opposed to playing you in a series or being affiliated with you in a conference. I mean, seriously, what else can we do? Just ignore them back and never schedule them in anything either? Maybe its just a deal where La Tech, Tulsa, NMSU, UTEP, UTSA, and Texas State are the regional teams that we will look forward to playing in OOC games in the future.

worst thread ever?

I've posted it here before, but in a conversation that I had a while back with a good friend who is in DFW sports media, when UNT comes up, the belief amongst the media here is that the only way we will ever gain any traction with the fans and the media is that we have to win the SBC AND beat a ranked AQ team. Basically, copy what TCU did from 1998 through today. If that doesn't do the trick and we see an increase in fandom, then it just isn't meant to be here at UNT.

See, to me, the 2001-2004 years don't help either. We won 26 SBC games in a row, went to 4 straight NO Bowls, and saw our attendance jump all the way up to...15k-18k, which is basically where it has remained no matter how good or bad we have been. I think we would be a good fit for CUSA, but it seems that we have no one in the conference that feels the same way I do. That's what apathy amongst everything attached to your university will do to you, unfortunately.