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GoMeanGreen.com 2017 pre-Signing Day Podcast #177


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The answer to the question, would UTSA's Frank Wilson have the same kind of class at poor ole losing NT.  Is yes he would.  

Good job on the broadcast as usual.  

 

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UNT should put on its big boy pants, hire Frank Wilson away from NutsaK and make him Assistant head coach and VP of football recruiting for the University of North Texas.

Edited by DeepGreen
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17 minutes ago, DeepGreen said:

UNT should put on its big boy pants, hire Frank Wilson away from NutsaK and make him Assistant head coach and VP of football recruiting for the University of North Texas.

Stop thinking small. Should have opened the checkbook and hired Saban to fill the special teams job. 

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I think the most interesting thing said has to do with blue shirts. If the staff didn't have something up their sleeves why would they be blueshirting 3 to 5 guys in a class of 19 guys with 20 scholarships to give. That means we would have 4-6 schollies left for this year and would be just eating out of the next class. I have faith in SL and his staff that there will be some surprise come NSD, whether it will be good or bad will be seen tomorrow. 

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10 minutes ago, AustinFromUNT said:

I think the most interesting thing said has to do with blue shirts. If the staff didn't have something up their sleeves why would they be blueshirting 3 to 5 guys in a class of 19 guys with 20 scholarships to give. That means we would have 4-6 schollies left for this year and would be just eating out of the next class. I have faith in SL and his staff that there will be some surprise come NSD, whether it will be good or bad will be seen tomorrow. 

maybe one or 2 tomorrow. I think most of the moves happen after signing day (hood and Jenkins last year).

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1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

The answer to the question, would UTSA's Frank Wilson have the same kind of class at poor ole losing NT.  Is yes he would.  

I want to agree, but UTSA has some intangibles that many UNT fans dismiss.  San Antonio is a well known city compared to Denton. No matter what sone on here personally think about San Antonio, it has more to sell than Denton.  

Many on here also think that Apogee is a great advantage.  Yes, apogee is a nice stadium...Once you visit...that's the key.  You have to get kids to visit to even capitalize on how nice it is.  UTSA has the Alamodome.  I was not impressed with it since I have been in several NFL domed stadiums.  But to a 17 year old kid who hasn't been to many places, that ragedy sradium could look awesome.  The Alamo dome is a help in recruiting and if marketed right, like playing indoors, can become a big plus. 

UTSA has a great schedule.  UH, Texas State, Arizona, Baylor...

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4 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

maybe one or 2 tomorrow. I think most of the moves happen after signing day (hood and Jenkins last year).

Agree.  We have several guys willing to blue shirt if needed.  The staff will have 3-5 schollies available to to try to attract any grad transfers, late qualifiers, or guys that find themselves without a spot after NSD.

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2 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

The answer to the question, would UTSA's Frank Wilson have the same kind of class at poor ole losing NT.  Is yes he would.  

Good job on the broadcast as usual.  

 

Agree. Listen through about half of it and heard a lot of the same, tired excuses for failure. 

What Brett Vito didn't say was maybe UNT has just made crap hires, and that maybe UTSA hired a guy that could coach AND recruit.

UNT hasn't, at least to this date and time, hired a guy like that. 

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33 minutes ago, GOMG2013 said:

I want to agree, but UTSA has some intangibles that many UNT fans dismiss.  San Antonio is a well known city compared to Denton. No matter what sone on here personally think about San Antonio, it has more to sell than Denton.  

Many on here also think that Apogee is a great advantage.  Yes, apogee is a nice stadium...Once you visit...that's the key.  You have to get kids to visit to even capitalize on how nice it is.  UTSA has the Alamodome.  I was not impressed with it since I have been in several NFL domed stadiums.  But to a 17 year old kid who hasn't been to many places, that ragedy sradium could look awesome.  The Alamo dome is a help in recruiting and if marketed right, like playing indoors, can become a big plus. 

UTSA has a great schedule.  UH, Texas State, Arizona, Baylor...

I will sound like 90 on this, more excuses.  NT does not lose the facility battle to UTSA, the Alamo Dome as you noted is not on campus and is overall very unimpressive.   As far as San Antonio, I disagree it may appeal to some and not so much to others.   The big city allure is certainly not why La Tech and USM and others are ahead of NT in recruiting.  For all practical purchases the metroplex is what NT is recruited to, and San Antonio is not even close.   Also NT is just a better school by almost all parameters. 

Here is something to ponder, if NT is such a hard sell, how come Benford can recruit to it.  NT's mbb history is not much better than football, and yet Benford has been able to get some pretty nice recruits despite his horrible record.   

The obvious answer to me is it is that Benford can recruit.  The same even more so is true for Wilson.   

 

 

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The better example would be Dodge's early recruiting classes, but ya. 

It all comes down to selling your program. Wilson has been able to do it. Littrell has not. Wilson also beat our supposed great Xs and Os coach on the field in both of their 1st years when they were playing with others talent. 

Right now, it looks like UTSA made the much better hire.

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9 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

I will sound like 90 on this, more excuses.  NT does not lose the facility battle to UTSA, the Alamo Dome as you noted is not on campus and is overall very unimpressive.   As far as San Antonio, I disagree it may appeal to some and not so much to others.   The big city allure is certainly not why La Tech and USM and others are ahead of NT in recruiting.  For all practical purchases the metroplex is what NT is recruited to, and San Antonio is not even close.   Also NT is just a better school by almost all parameters. 

Here is something to ponder, if NT is such a hard sell, how come Benford can recruit to it.  NT's mbb history is not much better than football, and yet Benford has been able to get some pretty nice recruits despite his horrible record.   

The obvious answer to me is it is that Benford can recruit.  The same even more so is true for Wilson.   

 

 

UNT does not lose the facility battle in YOUR eyes.  In MY eyes...in UNT FANS eyes.  Too bad the recruiting game involves teenage kids.  I even know a few UNT football players that were excited about playing in that thing. 

I also think selling San Antonio TO A 17-18 YEAR OLD is much easier than selling Denton.  San Antonio is not high on the list of US destination cities...but it's on the list though...it's a selling point.  Denton is not.  I'm sorry.

If the athletic department follows the same thought process of many fans (and it sure seems like it does) and they think Denton and Apogee is some huge advantage, they will continue to lose battles and continue to keep sending their coaches out there to recruit with a disadvantage.  

I do agree that Wilson would have done a better job than this current staff...his look is a recruiting advantage...NOT THE ONLY REASON, but an advantage...I won't go any further on that point...

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28 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Agree. Listen through about half of it and heard a lot of the same, tired excuses for failure. 

What Brett Vito didn't say was maybe UNT has just made crap hires, and that maybe UTSA hired a guy that could coach AND recruit.

UNT hasn't, at least to this date and time, hired a guy like that. 

Not in your frame of North Texas history. But in my frame of North Texas history it was Hayden Fry.  And (IMHO) coming in second would be Corkey Nelson. But Nelson didn't beat other coaches/schools in recruiting the high profile player, he could find "diamonds in the rough" and actually turn them into productive players.  

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55 minutes ago, GOMG2013 said:

UNT does not lose the facility battle in YOUR eyes.  In MY eyes...in UNT FANS eyes.  Too bad the recruiting game involves teenage kids.  I even know a few UNT football players that were excited about playing in that thing. 

I also think selling San Antonio TO A 17-18 YEAR OLD is much easier than selling Denton.  San Antonio is not high on the list of US destination cities...but it's on the list though...it's a selling point.  Denton is not.  I'm sorry.

If the athletic department follows the same thought process of many fans (and it sure seems like it does) and they think Denton and Apogee is some huge advantage, they will continue to lose battles and continue to keep sending their coaches out there to recruit with a disadvantage.  

I do agree that Wilson would have done a better job than this current staff...his look is a recruiting advantage...NOT THE ONLY REASON, but an advantage...I won't go any further on that point...

This could go on forever.  UTSA would trade the Alamo Dome in a second for an on-campus stadium of close to the quality of Apogee.  I like San Antonio, but based on your analysis Tulane, Hawaii, and UNLV would be perennial  recruiting leaders.   I guess you are unaware of all the excellent press Denton has gotten recently, Denton is not a negative recruiting factor. 

Again, why is Benford able to recruit to NT if the factors you state are so important.   As far as race being a factor, sure it is; but I doubt it is a major one   The facts are that Benford and Wilson were both known primarily as recruiters because they were good at it.  McCarney was not a good recruiter and he and his boss were happy to blame the NT culture and history.   Incredible on RV's part being he was here 15 years and must have had a little to do with his perceived NT's culture faults. 

Praise to Littrell, he has not been anything but positive.  I expect a small uptick in last minute recruiting and though they will never admit it; I am positive that neither Baker or Littrell are happy with this year's recruiting.   I am sure they are much more concerned with the recruiting performance this year than any fan ever will be and will search for ways to substantially improve.  

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32 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

This could go on forever.  UTSA would trade the Alamo Dome in a second for an on-campus stadium of close to the quality of Apogee.  I like San Antonio, but based on your analysis Tulane, Hawaii, and UNLV would be perennial  recruiting leaders.   I guess you are unaware of all the excellent press Denton has gotten recently, Denton is not a negative recruiting factor. 

Again, why is Benford able to recruit to NT if the factors you state are so important.   As far as race being a factor, sure it is; but I doubt it is a major one   The facts are that Benford and Wilson were both known primarily as recruiters because they were good at it.  McCarney was not a good recruiter and he and his boss were happy to blame the NT culture and history.   Incredible on RV's part being he was here 15 years and must have had a little to do with his perceived NT's culture faults. 

Praise to Littrell, he has not been anything but positive.  I expect a small uptick in last minute recruiting and though they will never admit it; I am positive that neither Baker or Littrell are happy with this year's recruiting.   I am sure they are much more concerned with the recruiting performance this year than any fan ever will be and will search for ways to substantially improve.  

Tulane, UNLV, Hawaii...man, we are talking about 17-19 year olds in the state of Texas.  You really think a teenager is caring about reports of how Denton is a nice place to live? You are still thinking like a grown person and recruiting is a totally different mindset.

You may be right. UTSA probably would prefer a stadium on campus.  But a good salesman can still sell the Alamodome to recruits.  Alamodome has some history and still holds events for the State playoffs.  Didn't Notre Dame play Army there this year?  Don't they have a bowl played there? 

 Playing in the Alamodome, the weather is not an issue.  It can mean nothing to you, but that can be a selling point.  Especially if I were recruiting a QB.  It gets real cold up there in North Texas...you like playing on 100+ degree football field?  

My point is Apogee isn't some huge advantage over the Alamodome like some are making it out to be.  The right salesman can actually make it an advantage, and if some regular scrub on a message board can bring up good points about it, I know a good recruiter/salesman can.

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23 minutes ago, GOMG2013 said:

Tulane, UNLV, Hawaii...man, we are talking about 17-19 year olds in the state of Texas.  You really think a teenager is caring about reports of how Denton is a nice place to live? You are still thinking like a grown person and recruiting is a totally different mindset.

You may be right. UTSA probably would prefer a stadium on campus.  But a good salesman can still sell the Alamodome to recruits.  Alamodome has some history and still holds events for the State playoffs.  Didn't Notre Dame play Army there this year?  Don't they have a bowl played there? 

 Playing in the Alamodome, the weather is not an issue.  It can mean nothing to you, but that can be a selling point.  Especially if I were recruiting a QB.  It gets real cold up there in North Texas...you like playing on 100+ degree football field?  

My point is Apogee isn't some huge advantage over the Alamodome like some are making it out to be.  The right salesman can actually make it an advantage, and if some regular scrub on a message board can bring up good points about it, I know a good recruiter/salesman can.

I think you just made my point.  

 

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27 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

I think you just made my point.  

 

I was referring to me being the scrub selling the Alamodome...but I guess the same can be said for selling Apogee.  I'm not discounting Apogee as a selling point, it's the UNT fans (and AD) that are sleeping on other schools selling points though.  

And let's just say since we both prefer Apogee over the Alamodome, do we like it enough to ignore the other aspects?  Most CUSA schools are selling playing time to 3 star recruits.  Most CUSA schools are selling that up and coming speech.  

UNT has a location advantage over UTEP and a conference advantage over TX State.  Thats the only clear advantages out there for UNT.

So we send Litrell out there with Apogee and the Denton, TX location and that's about it. It's not enough.  Not even close.  

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I'm old now, so I'm just throwing this out there.  I would figure if UNT offered some sort of degree plan that caters to what these kids do, that could turn into a big selling point.  I know UNT is big on Arts and Music, and I'm sure there's something similar, but if there was a major or minor that was really focused on today's rap music, video production, beat making, etc it could become a huge selling point.  I know Rice had a class religion and hip hop taught by a local houston rapper.  I'm talking about something even bigger.  Yes, it will be a lot of kids wanting that degree and there's a huge risk they could come out and have to hustle for a job...but there's also other majors that fit that same category.

I also know many athletes follow sports and majors like broadcasting should be marketed.  Not just offered.  MARKETED TO THE ATHLETES.  TCU offers a sports broadcasting degree.  UNT offers sports journalism.  I would hope the coaches are selling that to kids who are undecided on majors.  I would sound good to me.

Another thing that TCU does is allow their football players to run track.  UH also had success in the past with dual sports too.  Some schools say they are good with it, but are really not once the kid gets on campus.  UNT should really go after these kids that love both football and track and be serious about allowing the athlete to participate in both.  At least we would know the high school track coach would be the recruits ear.  

I'm just throwing stuff out there, cause the coaching staff needs a whole lot more than what UNT is giving them to sell.

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6 minutes ago, GOMG2013 said:

I'm old now, so I'm just throwing this out there.  I would figure if UNT offered some sort of degree plan that caters to what these kids do, that could turn into a big selling point.  I know UNT is big on Arts and Music, and I'm sure there's something similar, but if there was a major or minor that was really focused on today's rap music, video production, beat making, etc it could become a huge selling point.  I know Rice had a class religion and hip hop taught by a local houston rapper.  I'm talking about something even bigger.  Yes, it will be a lot of kids wanting that degree and there's a huge risk they could come out and have to hustle for a job...but there's also other majors that fit that same category.

I also know many athletes follow sports and majors like broadcasting should be marketed.  Not just offered.  MARKETED TO THE ATHLETES.  TCU offers a sports broadcasting degree.  UNT offers sports journalism.  I would hope the coaches are selling that to kids who are undecided on majors.  I would sound good to me.

Another thing that TCU does is allow their football players to run track.  UH also had success in the past with dual sports too.  Some schools say they are good with it, but are really not once the kid gets on campus.  UNT should really go after these kids that love both football and track and be serious about allowing the athlete to participate in both.  At least we would know the high school track coach would be the recruits ear.  

I'm just throwing stuff out there, cause the coaching staff needs a whole lot more than what UNT is giving them to sell.

I've heard they are doing this now with the Frisco campus, which has a sports business program. Things like being an agent or in marketing etc. Hopefully it helps.

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5 minutes ago, GOMG2013 said:

I'm old now, so I'm just throwing this out there.  I would figure if UNT offered some sort of degree plan that caters to what these kids do, that could turn into a big selling point.  I know UNT is big on Arts and Music, and I'm sure there's something similar, but if there was a major or minor that was really focused on today's rap music, video production, beat making, etc it could become a huge selling point.  I know Rice had a class religion and hip hop taught by a local houston rapper.  I'm talking about something even bigger.  Yes, it will be a lot of kids wanting that degree and there's a huge risk they could come out and have to hustle for a job...but there's also other majors that fit that same category.

I also know many athletes follow sports and majors like broadcasting should be marketed.  Not just offered.  MARKETED TO THE ATHLETES.  TCU offers a sports broadcasting degree.  UNT offers sports journalism.  I would hope the coaches are selling that to kids who are undecided on majors.  I would sound good to me.

Another thing that TCU does is allow their football players to run track.  UH also had success in the past with dual sports too.  Some schools say they are good with it, but are really not once the kid gets on campus.  UNT should really go after these kids that love both football and track and be serious about allowing the athlete to participate in both.  At least we would know the high school track coach would be the recruits ear.  

I'm just throwing stuff out there, cause the coaching staff needs a whole lot more than what UNT is giving them to sell.

UNT just created a Sports Management program inside of the college of education, with plans to do Atheltic Admin in the future as well. But the problem with the Sports Management is that it is the process of going from more of a public rec program to a sports program, with limited classes offered because of the limited facility to teach it. (I'm currently in the Sports Management program). UNT needs to be asking what these kids want and pushing/expanding into these degrees, because some kids may like UNT but we don't offer a program/major that they want so they go  else where

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2 minutes ago, MeanGreenHoops said:

I've heard they are doing this now with the Frisco campus, which has a sports business program. Things like being an agent or in marketing etc. Hopefully it helps.

Would have been a great selling point had it been at the main campus.  Probably can't play sports and attend Frisco.  

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2 hours ago, GOMG2013 said:

Tulane, UNLV, Hawaii...man, we are talking about 17-19 year olds in the state of Texas.  You really think a teenager is caring about reports of how Denton is a nice place to live? You are still thinking like a grown person and recruiting is a totally different mindset.

You may be right. UTSA probably would prefer a stadium on campus.  But a good salesman can still sell the Alamodome to recruits.  Alamodome has some history and still holds events for the State playoffs.  Didn't Notre Dame play Army there this year?  Don't they have a bowl played there? 

 Playing in the Alamodome, the weather is not an issue.  It can mean nothing to you, but that can be a selling point.  Especially if I were recruiting a QB.  It gets real cold up there in North Texas...you like playing on 100+ degree football field?  

My point is Apogee isn't some huge advantage over the Alamodome like some are making it out to be.  The right salesman can actually make it an advantage, and if some regular scrub on a message board can bring up good points about it, I know a good recruiter/salesman can.

Apogee Stadium?   Former Dallas Cowboy Super Scout Gil Brandt who computerized the NFL draft after his tour of Apogee said: 

"Apogee Stadium is the Taj Mahal of college football and trust me, I've seen every football stadium in the NCAA." 

So Gil Brandt was selling Apogee Stadium before any of our coaches back then seemed to be. 

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1 minute ago, MeanGreenHoops said:

I've heard they are doing this now with the Frisco campus, which has a sports business program. Things like being an agent or in marketing etc. Hopefully it helps.

It does help but only a few classes are down in Frisco, and when they are students normally have a class at the Denton campus before or after... So either you gotta have an hour break between classes to get back to Denton, or try and fit in the random 2 or 3 classes that would be offered within the Sports Program at Frisco... Honestly, they have a gold mine, with the Star/FC Dallas, Frisco RoughRiders, and the stars training complex but the school doesn't help out students get jobs/internships with these programs nor have speakers come from this different teams to come recruit either.

1 minute ago, GOMG2013 said:

Would have been a great selling point had it been at the main campus.  Probably can't play sports and attend Frisco.  

If they offered up a bus or something between Denton and Frisco, I think a lot more people would attend.. or if they offered more classes... but them offering 2 or 3 maybe 4 classes for a degree(if your lucky) makes it a huge turn off to students. Students don't want to shuttle back and forth between class let alone make the drive from Frisco that could be 10-20 minutes or 1 hour if you hit traffic

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