untjim1995

Haven't the costs to travel to and from Denton always been cheaper than to the other outposts you mentioned? Since we moved back up to D-IA status, we have played SMU twice, TCU three times, Rice and UH once, and UTEP none. We won one time against these in-state schools, so us beating them can't be a reason that we don't play them regularly. The real reasons are exactly why we will never be in a conference with these schools--their administration and fans don't want anything to do with having us in a conference with them. That is why our only paths to the future in I-A involve a SBC that continues to get stronger over the next few decades or by getting an E-WAC division going. It will not involve any current FBS schools in Texas, IMHO.

I enjoy reading your posts--but after I read them, more often than not, I really do believe that UNT will never give you what you expect as a fan. Look, you talk about raising expectations, but in the last 14 years of the program, we have had exactly 3 winning seasons as a D-1 school. We can't even get a stadium built without jumping through about 10 rings of fire. We cannot afford to hire a really good coach--we always have to take a flier (i.e. Parker, Simon, Dickey, and Dodge). None of those coaches had any college head-coaching experience. I realize college coordinators make the leap often, but often they don't work out as head coaches. So we get what we can afford. Rice gets Bailiff, SMU gets Jones, Tulsa gets Graham, and UTEP got Price. Places like Tulsa, SMU, Rice, and UTEP want to have their football programs succeed--we want music and arts to succeed (See Phillip Young types). I understand your frustration, but I just wonder why you keep banging your head so hard against the wall on the subject of TDodge and the program's flaws. Until we get that new stadium built and can get financial support to pay for a good coaching staff, we will be a program that will be stuck in SBC land. With Fouts getting worse every day, with a putrid record of late, and with the coach having a few more years on the contract, as well as the previous one, too, the only hope is that Dodge finds success with his new QB. Recruits and their families aren't stupid. Its the whole thing that stinks--and until someone up at the top decides that we need to support and fund a better athletic program than fine arts and music, then our fortunes could change. But since that has never happened, I wouldn't hold my breath.

I respectfully disagree. UH is a much better conference, has much better media coverage, and has a much higher budget and donors. They have rivals that want to play them and be in a conference with them. UNT has none of these and probably won't even come close for some time. UH also will probably get to be a Tier 1 University. I really am envious of them when compared to our situation. IF RV is interested and UH is interested, that would be a very good fit for both.

Gonzaga plays in the WCC with: San Diego, Portland, St. Mary's, Pepperdine, San Francisco, Loyola Maymount, and Santa Clara. Over the years, with Portland being the exception, all of the other teams in that conference have made the tournament and have had some level of success. But, again, most casual hoops fans who only follow the conferences that they "know" (BCS or close-to-home conferences), so I can understand how you feel. The SBC is a good league for hoops, better than many others, but WKU doesn't make people from all over the Metroplex flock to the Pit for a home game against them. But, even if we were in CUSA, I doubt very seriously that a game against Memphis would sell out because college hoops just doesn't matter much here in DFW--and it never has, which is really too bad. College hoops is my favorite sport, just ahead of college football. Luckily, college hoops knows how to crown a champ, unlike football.

Interesting pricing for their season tickets--6 games. I am not sure if you also have to donate first to get these prices or if this is the all-in-one price for their tickets. It would seem to be the latter, but here goes: Stadium Club $1100/seat Mustang Club Sideline $280/seat Sideline Reserved West $150/seat Sideline Reserved East $120/seat Family Section $72/seat End Zone Reserved $72/seat I wonder if they are giving a discount for the last two seating options for season-ticket buyers versus just paying at the time you walk up. Anyway, it all interests me because if we get our new stadium, what will our prices be? Will the majority of fans pay a much higher price to come there and watch SBC games?

There is only problem to your thinking bigger and better than playing in a conference with UTSA and TSU: Those other Texas colleges look at UNT the exact same way that we look at UTSA or TSU, especially the Metrpolex teams and their fans. UTEP, UH, Rice, SMU, and TCU have more to gain if a TSU or UTSA join their conference or play OOC games against them in the future because they get more exposure in an area of the state that they can recruit better. Unfortunately, our location, which is a hotbed for recruiting anyway, already has exposure in the two conferences that we would love to be a member in--and SMU and TCU want nothing to do with us being in their conference. The best hope for UNT, in my opinion, is for the larger public universities in the SBC and CUSA to create their own conference. Then, a conference of La Tech, Ark State, UH, ULL, UNT, UTEP, NMSU, USM, UAB, Troy, MTSU, and WKU would be a great combo of all of the SBC and CUSA. UNT would be a prominent player as the only Metroplex school in this scenario and we would upgrade our conference immediately. Sadly, though, if SMU is in CUSA, we won't be--its just that simple. And probably the same with TCU and the MWC, too.

Completely agree. I see 1-2 wins in 2009--at the most. (WKU and an upset--maybe Army??) I think this will be the end of the road and we get to start all over again, which bums me out because I like TD and think he is a terrific family man. It just appears that TD and UNT are not a good fit together. All of which leads to this question: Knowing how stellar our leadership has been in hiring football coaches in the last 30 years, who on here thinks that we will get the next hire anywhere close to being right? We haven't gotten the right guy here since Corky Nelson in 1982--and we fired him in 1990 to bring in Dennis Parker/Matt Simon/Darrell Dickey/Todd Dodge over the last 17 years. And we wonder why we have no support--with these "terrific" hires, who would have ever guessed that we cared more for music than football? Good things are happening for coaches getting passed over by UNT!!

No, but his brother, Reggie Finch, did. And he was a huge disappointment.

Can We??? Will We??

Well, if memory serves me, only once did we send another team to a bowl game during our championship years, which was Troy in 2003. People remember Middle because they beat Vandy in the first year of Sun Belt, but they had just moved up from I-AA so they had many I-A transfers, IIRC. After that, the great coaching of Andy Mac really showed up for MTSU. Also, at the same time, Roberts at ASU was just getting going, as well. Bustle at ULL was new, as was Weatherbie at ULM. NMSU was average at best, Idaho and USU were just bad. Basically, DD got the beenfit of a new conference with teams that were either terrible or had coaches that were just starting to build their programs. Let's say we had a coach here at that time like Turner Gill, a guy who has been very energetic in building a program and wanted to watch it grow into a success. Turner Gill (not that he was a choice back then, but you get the idea as an example), in my opnion, would have enjoyed similar success as DD and we would have been better off because of attitude and energy, not to mention no bore-us-to-sleep, run-the-draw-on-every-down coaching that DD was known for. That is why I think it is imperative to have your coach be a guy that fans want to support, but one who also knows what they are doing X's and O's wise, unlike Dodge apparently. DD may have been a decent X's and O's guy, but he was massively horrible in regards to energy or fan appeal, which is why I cannot beleive we have anything named after him at this school, but have nothing named after Hayden Fry. Only at UNT.

Perception wise, I think most folks would agree that the SBC of today is stronger than it was back then. I know that the numbers and the results say differently in his story, but I still believe that the SBC is much better than it was back then. As a matter of fact, I beleive that the SBC of today isn't that bad of a conference. But, I didn't think that back in 2001-2004. I think that Troy's program and FAU's program would have won the conference back then. This isn't saying we wouldn't have competed as well, but DD supporters make that stretch out to be HOF worthy. It wasn't. That is what makes me look at DD's timeframe as just being average--that any other COLLEGE coach could have done as well or better here. And, just to be fair, I think Dodge has been terrible, much worse than Dickey.

The way I look at the Dodge vs. Dickey thing is really pretty simple. Dickey was not that good of a coach, he just benefited from the early SBC. Otherwise, his record would have really sucked. And, Dodge has been worse. Both were/are not what this program needs in a HC. Prior to these two, Simon was a joke (trust me, I worked under him for two years), and Parker was in way over his head. Except for Corky Nelson, who we somehow fired even though he led us to hang with programs we had no business competing with at a I-AA level, and Hayden Fry, who did what most coaches at small schools do--leave for greener pastures, the last 35 years of coaching picks at this fine institution have been well below par. Just goes to show what happens when the university is apathetic toward athletics. The next year will be interesting no matter what happens because we either see major Dodge improvement and he stays, or we see him get fired and we try again to hire someone to get us going in the right direction as we enter a new stadium (hopefully).

It amazes me just how much can change in such a short amount of time...

JJ is currently a good not great coach but he is actually a lot better than the program deserves based on it's support level.

CBL, Good points on where we should be in a year or two. One thing that I would caution everyone on is the fact that the talent doesn't always stay--issues pop up often--whether its grades, drugs, personal issues, etc. What looks good down the road, doesn't always manifest itself into being what we think we see. Secondly, I think JJ will be here for a long time--unless he does get us to the tourney again and attracts bigger programs. His salary fits our budget, his personality doesn't stir up too many emotions around here, and his legacy here will forever be that he brought the program up from the most embarrassing level that it has ever endured (Trilli years). In many ways, the next football coach after Dodge could look similar to JJ in that just by doing something positive--win 4 or 5 games, he will look like a genius compared to what we are seeing right now. But, as for JJ, even if we don't make the tournament (NCAA or NIT), I just can't see him being fired--unless they only win 7 or 8 games. And maybe that says more about UNT and its expectations than it does about JJ or the team.

Serious question for all alumni/fans: What would it take, aside from abolishing the program, to make you walk awya from the program? Some folks,like FFR, I suspect would say nothing--others may have a different opinion.

Emmitt, I think we all respect your opinion, so I am curious to ask these questions. What steps do you think we need to take today to get this program going in the right direction? Would you ever see a point where the university would close things down instead of trying to build this thing up?

Generalization here big-time, but Southlake, Alamo Heights, Kingwood, or Westlake are all examples of areas that I believe would not be a good fit with UNT Football at the moment.

No, I wouldn't have typed that after Dodge was hired. As a matter of fact, I may have been the most excited fan about getting Dodge here. I expected great offense and a coach that interacted with the fans in a better fashion than DD. Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case on the offense. I can't really speak to the interaction part, but I haven't heard Dodge call us MFers, so he's got that going for him--which is nice.

Here are my thoughts on all of this: 1.) Vizza and his buddies from the "privileged" areas around the state are not a good fit here, in my opinion. IIRC, there was a really good thread about this a few months ago that talked about the kids from the rural schools and the inner-ciy schools being more tough-minded to deal with the situation here at UNT. 2.) Vizza is a great talent--he will do well at whatever school he attends because of the fact that he wants to be there and the coaching/talent at the other place will be much better. That leads to #3. 3.) Riley was probably going to be the starter here anyway...in other news, we need oxygen to breathe. Coach Dodge didn't bring his son here to not play QB. Whether he can or can't is to be determined, although I don't think anyone could succeed here at QB with the line play that we have. 4.) If we go 0-12 or 2-10 next year, both Dodges will be gone after next year--no way I can see Riley staying here if Dad is gone. But the problem won't ever go away here at UNT until the Board of Regents, the President, and the Chancellor beleive that the funding for the program needs to be increased dramatically. The head coach here should not make $250K when the two private universities that you recruit against down both sides of I-35 make $2Million or more. If you can't pay the head coach a package of at least $500k, the trend will continue. Remember that we don't get to be a part of a start-up conference again like DD got the benefit of doing in 2001-2004. Its gonna take a lot to CATCH UP to other SBC teams--I can't believe I just typed that. That alone is depressing and makes me wonder if we really will get back to beign a winning program again in the near future.

Interesting information on what probably lies ahead in 3 years. http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/story/11238522

If you go to the MWC and say that you will be invited to join if you take on Boise, Hawaii, and Fresno, then the BCS just eliminated the top three non-BCS challengers to their party. That is why I think that the MWC will eventually get in to the party--and it will be with 12 teams, not 9.

This is the exact reason that I think either the BCS will expand to include a new 12-team MWC, or they will "ask" the PAC-10 to expand to include Utah and someone else. Too much litigation risk that is still out there. http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/story/11230586

I would rather us drop football than go back to FCS-level football. We are a huge-freaking school--we should never be playing in a conference full of SFAs or Nicholls States again. If the school doesn't want to fund the program properly, it will eventually fold anyway. The costs of running a legitimate FBS program is expensive. But, again, how many folks are lining up to attend the big Jazz concert that the school puts on or the big Art Exhibit? Nowhere near 17K. But, if the school just always wants to be a liberal arts oriented university first, I guess its their prerogative. But, to the anyone who thinks athletics costs to much, there is a cost as well in the missed opportunity that we should have had for years with a school of this size and location. There is no reason that UNT shouldn't at least resemble UH or UTEP right now. Heck, there is no reason that our program shouldn't at least resemble Tech's either. But moving down to I-AA knocked us backwards for so many years, that trying to make our way back now during this time period is going to be an uphil battle--especially if we can't get decent coaches to come here.