MeanGreenZen

Tee Goree’s football skills are so magical that his Rivals page is now showing a scholarship offer from Hogwarts. While it is becoming more and more apparent that Goree’s father is Zeus, let’s first examine the half of him that is human. Goree lost a fumble last night and on another play while returning a punt, he dove at a dying ball Leon Lett-style that was already surrounded by three members of the La Grange coverage team. Let’s also remember that Goree is playing against Class 3A competition and it will be a big jump up to Conference USA. And if we are being really picky, Goree’s listed height of 6-3 might be fudging just a little. Now that I got that out of the way, I am so freaking excited that Goree is committed to North Texas. He can be a special, special player in Denton. His upside is so much higher than Johnny Quinn, George Marshall, Casey Fitzgerald or any other receiver we’ve had here in as long as I can remember. I saw someone on Twitter saying that he is an SEC receiver. He is. Goree caught every catchable pass last night and his speed allowed him to get behind the defense with ease on his routes. The pass to him on the 45-yard touchdown seemed to be overthrown but Goree hit his boosters like the cars in those Fast & Furious movies and pulled it in. The most impressive aspect of his game was his runs after the catch. He NEVER got tackled by the first guy. His change of direction is absolutely elite. Twice during the game he gave a defensive back a juke that made the defender fall down. Now it was just one game and the cornerback primarily matched up against Goree was a FRESHMAN (A freshman good enough to play both ways on a state semifinalist who also scored on a 64-yard burst playing running back and was La Grange’s leading receiver in the game). But still a freshman. Goree is the type of player we have to sign to become a Top 25 program. I believe he will develop into the kind of player opposing coaches will have to gameplan around. I was impressed with his intangibles, too. He was a captain and he was at the front of the pack when the team ran on the field before the game. He is a leader and has a little Marcus Trice in him as he would motion to the crowd to get loud at key moments in the game. My bet is that Goree is starting for us next year by the time conference play begins. Our other commit from Carthage, wide receiver O’Keeron Rutherford, is every bit his listed size of 6-5. He is also SKINNY. He looks like Hasheem Thabeet in shoulder pads. He is fast enough and has solid hands, doing most of his damage against La Grange on slants across the middle. He wasn’t afraid of contact, but he didn’t any break tackles until his touchdown reception late in the fourth quarter when he dragged a defender with him into the end zone. A lot of kids that tall are also a little clumsy, but Rutherford has smoothness to his movements. He has been a very productive player at the 3A level, averaging more than a touchdown reception a game. And you have to wonder how much more he could have produced if he didn’t have to play in the shadow of Goree. Rutherford is a very strong candidate to redshirt. Put him on a 5,000 calorie a day diet and sic Frank Wintrich on him. I could see him developing into a unique offensive weapon, and not just as a red zone target. Another prospect from Carthage that we are rumored to be interested in is running back Tevin Pipkin. After watching Pipkin, who will go over 2,000 yards rushing on the season next week, I am bummed that we don’t have a scholarship left to offer him (Call it the Kenny Buyers tax: which I will happily pay). I still prefer Willie Ivery, but Pipken has great acceleration. His style reminded me of Lance Dunbar. He is not big. He can be tackled, but if you give him any daylight he will take it to the house. He is an FBS-level talent and if we could somehow convince him to come on board as a preferred walkon that would be a grand slam. I wouldn’t mind if we tried to grayshirt him either or placed him at a junior college. Let’s examine the Carthage quarterback who is committed to UTSA. Blake Bogenschutz has thrown for 55 touchdowns and three interceptions this season. He is listed at 6-0, but I would bet he is closer to 5-10. I assumed he was the JV quarterback while watching them warm up. He is VERY mobile, throws a good deep ball and has excellent velocity and a tight spiral on his short to intermediate throws. He will have to improve his touch in college although his completion percentage is excellent. Early in the second half, Bogenshutz went to Rutherford on short-yardage near the end zone on consecutive plays. He led Rutherford too much on both of them instead of just throwing it high and letting the receiver exploit his significant height advantage and win a jump ball. In a best-case scenario, Bogenshutz is the next Eric Soza. Worst case he is Chase Baine. I trust our staff’s talent evaluators and understand why we never offered him, but Bogenshutz is the kind of quarterback I like to watch play. He has a strong arm, can scramble and make plays with his legs, was VERY productive in high school and has won a lot of games. Playing with elite skill position players certainly makes Bogenshutz look a little better than he probably is, but I can see why Larry Coker likes him and am maybe a little jealous that he is not coming to UNT.

Where you sitting Cooley?

RB is the easiest position to replace. Andrew Tucker, Zac Whitfield, Carlos Harris and even Blake Dunham (haha) were good RB in high school and could be moved there in emergency.

Here is his family's business website, which says they do a lot of work for churches. http://www.cleburnesheetmetal.com/press.html

Rumor on Tech message boards is that Mayfield is transferring because Kliff opted not to offer him a scholarship. Mayfield was a 3-star recruit out of high school with offers from Rice and FAU. As a true freshman walk-on at Tech, he completed 64% of passes for 2315 yards, 12 touchdowns and 9 int. Mayfield is not a running threat. He was just a freshman, but that was the Tech offense, and Kliff's previous starting QB was Johnny Football. I don't see Baker Mayfield being an upgrade over Derek Thompson.

Means is retweeting UNT bowl announcements today so I am guessing he is still committed.

This situation seems strange to me. I am betting it is one of three things... 1. One of our returning QBs has indicated to coaches they are not returning. 2. Connor Means is no longer committed to us. 3. We did not, in fact, actually offer Josh Greer. If we were looking for a transfer QB, why not be more patient and wait until JW Walsh inevitably transfers from OSU?

How did you ever pass the reading comprehension section of the firefighter exam? In the previous post to which you are referring, I never said Derek "Derrick" Thompson had bad high school passing stats. In fact, his high school stats were impressive all the way around. In the context of that post, it is actually important to understand that. We will have to disagree on whether "Derrick" is a mobile quarterback. I think not, but his lack of mobility did not prevent him from posting a 8-4 record as a starter this year. In regards to your previous comment about football being tennis and whether a single player can swing a win or a loss... I believe one player can win or lose a football game. Football is often a game of individual matchups: WR vs. CB, OT vs DE, a RB in the open field vs. a SS, etc. If all the other matchups are battling to a draw then football can come down to one player vs. one player. It can come down to a final play and it can be a game of inches. If one player is strong enough to get that extra inch against his opponent then it can mean the difference between winning and losing. You can talk all you want about football being a team game and it is. But it can come down to ONE player making a play. Ask the backup kicker from Alabama. His long-snapper did his job. His blockers did their job. The holder did his job. If the kicker could have hit that long field goal then Alabama would be playing for another national title.

DT was average this season which is definitely better than having a below average quarterback. I will gladly take the eight wins and hope he plays well enough to help us win the bowl game. My opinion of DT (as a player, he seems a outstanding young man) would certainly be different had he had a "Miracle in the Desert" moment but he ended two potential come-from-behind wins with game-ending interceptions. If he had made just one of those comebacks happen, he would be a hero to all of us. We can win with DT, but we have rarely won because of him. I will be excited to have a running threat taking snaps for us next year.

Dan McCarney is a better talent evaluator than the online recruiting services. But those of you who claim that we don't need highly-rated recruits because Patrick Cobbs and Johnny Quinn weren't highly-rated are wrong. You know who was highly rated? Lance Dunbar, Jamario Thomas, Zach Orr, Jonas Buckles... Yes, you can find some diamonds in the trash like Cobbs and Quinn, but as Darrell Dickey discovered, it is hard to sustain a bowl eligible program by finding guys that other programs didn't notice. I like the higher quality of recruits McCarney is bringing in and know that you don't judge a class on signing day, but overall, the fewer longshots you sign, the better. And just so I am clear, I don't see Means as a longshot. Atleast five FBS programs offered him an engagement ring.

Connor Means has been a starting QB for a Class 5A high school in Texas for two years. I am sure him and his family are used to his performance being judged by coaches, scouts, teammates, classmates, community members and football fans. If they aren't used to it, they better get ready because he just accepted a free college education in exchange for executing football plays on fall Saturdays in front of 20-something thousand fans who demand to win and be entertained. I never talked crap about the kid, just stated that he was an average high school quarterback. Now, that is subjective, but I based that assessment on my opinion of his stats and, if I wanted to take the time, I am confident I could prove his stats are, in fact, average. I follow UNT recruiting pretty closely, and there is no offseason in recruiting. When my schedule allows, I like to go watch UNT commits play on Friday nights. I also follow their box scores on the Internet. Means stats were an outlier compared to other QBs getting FBS scholarship offers. I wanted to know what our coaches saw in this kid to justify allocating a scholarship to him. I know from reading this board that other UNT fans were wondering the same thing so I just shared what I discovered and my thoughts on it. To be successful, UNT has to be able to identify and develop undervalued assets. I am rooting for this kid.

Vizza was highly recruited and had four FBS offers. Means had five FBS offers. Andrew Smith was not highly recruited.

When North Texas hired Mike Canales to be its offensive coordinator, Canales stated his desire to find a quarterback who could be a threat both running and passing. Four years into Canales tenure, UNT has had better luck finding Nathan Tunes dog than finding a dual threat quarterback. The Derek Thompson era (otherwise known as the Stone-foot Age) will end at UNT after this season. Can Deer Parks Connor Means develop into the type of offensive threat Canales wants in a quarterback? If I had a stock broker, I imagine he would tell me that past performance does not guarantee future results. I may not have an eTrade account, but I do have a Rivals account. And after a disappointing senior season of high school, North Texas is hoping past performance does not indicate how Means college career will play out. Without being able to account for variables such as the quality of opponents/teammates/coaching, lets look at how Means, our only QB commitment, compared as a high school senior with the high school senior stats of his future teammates and the starting QBs of each of UNTs opponents. College Player Comp Passing YDS Pass TD INT UNT Connor Means 49% 1,323 yds 10 TD 9 INT UNT Dajon Williams 58% 1,618 yds 15 TD 3 INT UNT Andrew McNulty 55% 1,438 yds 12 TD 5 INT UNT Brock Berglund 61% 2,150 yds 23 TD 5 INT Idaho Chad Chalich 73% 3,641 yds 42 TD 2 INT Ohio Tyler Tettleton 57% 1,947 yds 21 TD 11 INT Ball State Keith Wenning, 69% 3,629 yds 40 TD 12 INT Georgia Aaron Murray 61% 2,285 yds 33 TD 5 INT Tulane Nick Montana 58% 2,636 yds 34 TD 10 INT MTSU Austin Grammer 74% 3,007 yds 30 TD 4 INT La Tech Ryan Higgins 60% 1,804 yds 11 TD 4 INT S Miss Nick Mullens 64% 3,649 yds 40 TD 7 INT Rice Taylor McHargue 47% 1,309 yds 13 TD 11 INT UTEP Mack Leftwich 66% 3,331 yds 45 TD 4 INT UTSA Eric Soza 55% 1,523 yds 15 TD 6 INT Tulsa Dane Evans 64% 3,265 yds 36 TD 13 INT Now before we go jumping headfirst off the top of the Apogee tail because Means ranks near the bottom in completion percentage and passing yards with the worst touchdown to interception ratio, lets consider that Means stats are not HORRIBLE. In fact, they are average. Means was an average high school quarterback. Hey, as a 2013 North Texas football fan, I am an expert at watching average quarterback play. Of the guys above, Means stats most closely resemble Rices Taylor McHargue and UTSAs Eric Soza. If Means could go on to have a college career like those two, I would be happier than Darrell Dickey at 3 a.m. on Bourbon Street. But McHargue and Soza derive most of their value from their legs (Curse your legs, Soza! Your beautiful, pocket-escaping, playmaking legs. Oh how we long for a UNT quarterback with legs. Not Joe Namath wearing pantyhose legs. But its 3rd and 7 and all the receivers are covered and you can scramble for a first down legs.) What kind of legs does Means have? His 40 time is listed on recruiting sites as 4.65. But high school 40 times are less reliable than a Ron Mendoza defensive game plan. As a runner, Means averaged six yards a carry and scored 10 touchdowns. That seemed kinda impressive until I noticed that Derek Thompson ran for 6.5 yards a carry and scored 13 rushing touchdowns in his final year of high school. I also heard that Means runs the 300 hurdles in track. (Hey, so did RG3!) But cant find any results that indicate how good he is at it. It has also been reported that Means is a basketball player (his dad is the varsity basketball coach). But as far as I can tell, Means averaged 2.7 points a game before permanently disappearing from the Deer Park basketball box scores halfway through his junior season. Means football highlight film shows a long run where he weaves his way through a defense to score a touchdown and has other runs where he demonstrates decent straight line speed. Means played Class 5A Texas football in a good district. Its not like the guys hes playing are a bunch of suburban Colorado hippies wearing hemp shoulder pads. But Means elusiveness will not remind anyone of Riley Dodge. He is not a future 1,000 yard rusher. So why would North Texas give a scholarship to a high school quarterback with average passing stats, a sub .500 record as a varsity starter (he did lead his JV team to a 10-0 record as a sophomore!) who does not possess elite running ability? Well, UNT wasnt the only school to offer Means a scholarship. Recruiting sites list other offers from Boise State, Texas State, La-Lafayette and La-Monroe. Going back to the mid-90s, I cant think of an incoming UNT freshman, who was recruited as a quarterback, with that many FBS offers. If Means cant play quarterback at the next level, UNT isnt the only program he fooled. While Means has yet to prove he is a college quarterback, his picture could certainly be used to catfish an unsuspecting Internet user to believe he was one. Means is a full 6-3 and 205 with the frame to get heavier. He looks comfortable in the pocket and can take a hit. While his arm is not anything to tweet about, it looks like he can make all the throws necessary to spread the field and keep a defense honest. So why wasnt he a better high school player? The scouting reports mention a small mechanical flaw in his delivery (his elbow is too low when he throws) which impacts his accuracy (thus the low completion percentage and high interceptions). This will be the key to Means success in Denton. Means attended the UNT satellite camp and has thrown in front of Canales and Dan McCarney a couple of times. They must think they can fix him! UNT is hoping that Means can be the new car you buy on deep discount because the dealer left it outside during a bad hail storm. Just give it a new paint job and a little body work and your friends will never know! The truth is, if Means already had a perfect delivery and impressive stats, hed probably be heading to the Big 12. For a FBS QB, Means moves well, possesses ideal size and has acceptable arm strength. Those are assets you cant coach. It is smart football to include a quarterback in every recruiting class and this is the time in the life cycle of the UNT football program to invest in one with raw upside. If Andrew McNulty, Brock Berglund and Dajon Williams are who we hope they are, then Means doesnt have to be anything more than a 4th string QB for at least two years. That gives Canales time in the laboratory to work through his flaws and improve his accuracy. If Canales can do that, Means past performance will have no bearing on his future results.

Give me Willie Ivery from Sulphur Springs. I would actually rather have him than Dez White. Ivery can step right into the Brelan role.

Jimmerson should have caught that ball in the end zone. Thompson overthrew Brelan twice on deep balls. On another play, Thompson forced the ball over the middle for an incomplete pass while Jimmerson was open in the flat with nothing but I-35E in front of him. UTSA players executed and made plays. Our players did not.

The lack of football games on Mean Green Premium now is ridiculous. I have been a year round subscriber since the early Dodge days and it was fantastic when you couldn't make a game for whatever reason. I cancelled my subscription last week since they are no longer showing football games.

I was involved in SGA back then and the OP is just flat wrong.

If we want to be a great program, we better get used to having to replace great players. To do that, good players need to make the leap to great and new talent needs to be continually infused into the program. Look at guys who have made the leap since last season, Trice was ok last year, he is great now. Abbé has been "just a guy" up until this season. Suddenly he is all-conference. And DT has gone from slightly below average to pretty good. Couldn't you see Jimmerson jumping to that Cobbs/Dunbar level next season? Carlos Harris will surely be featured more. We have a lot of depth coming back at DE: Polk, Mason, Quenton Brown and Jarrian Roberts. Sed Ellis is catching my èye at LB in his limited playing time. What talent is already on our sidelines wearing a redshirt (personally I can't wait to see Sid Moore play)? What new talent will be faxing us their signature In a few months? The bottom line is we finally have a coach and a program that can identify talent AND develop it. I agree with Harry about next season. PS - I can't tell if people are joking about Thompson as a first ballot Hall of Famer. He has put in a little more than a half season as an above average college QB. He is a good QB this season. He might deserve 2013 UNT Offensive MVP but calling him a Hall of Famer is ridiculous.

I don't understand why some people here believe that just because we are winning NOW we can't discuss the future. It is a football message board... Beat UTEP.

After the Rice game, I am thinking Lee and Trice have eclipsed Buckles and Jones as the best safety combo I have ever seen at UNT. While the Dickey LB's were better as a whole, I am thinking as an individual that Zach Orr is better than any of them.

Whatever you want to call it. As a hs recruit, the dude was ranked up there with Johnny Football. Now he is (at best) a third string QB. I am rooting for Berglund. I expected him to come here and win the job. I'm sure he did, too. I just wonder why he is so far down the depth chart? I wasn't trying to be negative with this thread. We are 5-3. I was just pointing out that large factions of fans are excited about Dajon and Berglund but it looks like McNulty is the favorite for next year right now. The backup QB is usually the most popular guy on campus, but everyone is disappointed when McNulty enters a game and not Berglund or Dajon. I will root for whoever is our QB. As an athlete, McNulty reminds me of Scott Hall. Hope we get up big more this season so he can get additional snaps.

Sorry to offend the thread police, broseph. Why don't you go post your hockey gif on a Stars message board? We're 5-3.

We couldn't wait to give Thompson's job to Berglund when he committed here. Then when Berglund flamed out, we decided Dajon was the heir apparent. But Mac has made McNulty the obvious No. 2 this season. If Mac thought Berglund was going to be the starter next year, seems like Berglund would be getting the garbage snaps this season so he could have some reps under his belt. Also think they would try to work Dajon in a little more this season if he was the obvious choice to take over next year instead of getting the medical redshirt. Seems like McNulty is the favorite right now to be our starter next year. How do you feel about that?

Personally, I believe if you make a commitment you should honor it. But he is a young kid and allowed to change his mind. I wish him the best, but hope he loses every game he plays at TCU (except against SMU). He was an interesting prospect, especially since he was such a high profile high school player in DFW, but I trust Mac to find his replacement in our class. Can you think of any players who decommitted from us and went on to have significant college careers elsewhere?

Very interesting recruit. His side-to-side quickness was amazing. Elite. A couple of times I thought he was going down for sure in the backfield but he would just dance away from the defender and complete a pass downfield. His pure speed is ordinary by D1 standards. He had a 49-yard TD run, but he almost got caught from behind by two db's. He is certainly fast enough for CUSA, but not a burner. Before seeing him play, I completely discounted his ability to play QB at the next level because of his size, but if I was Mac, I would certainly give him a look there. And wouldn't be surprised if that is already the plan (although that is probably being kept quiet because if this kid can play QB at the next level he is a Big 12 caliber player.) White is a THROWING QB. His accuracy was unbelievable and his arm was strong. He is just a little small. Not TOO short, but VERY light. He was hard to catch, but I saw him get tackled several times last night by a defender who pulled him down with just one arm. I would compare White to Riley Dodge: just slightly smaller with a much stronger arm and without the injury history. I could see White contributing as a QB, slot receiver, cornerback or returner. We definitely need to utilize that kid's arm somehow if we don't make him a QB through trick plays or Wildcat formations. Excited about him.