GrandGreen

No, many of those players were very productive. Horrocks , John - 7'0 - C - 1981-1982 - - Maybe the best true center NT has ever had. Was offensive force on team Riley , Sean - 6'11 - C - 1995-1996 - Katy HS , Houston, TX - Very good first two seasons before transferring, could completely dominate a game; Never understood why he was not more successful at Illinois State Anstey , Graeme - 6'11 - C - 1997-1998 - San Jose St Univ , Melbourne, Australia - Only lasted a season on Trilli team, went back to Australia to play pro Howerton , Justin - 6'10 - C - 2005-2006 - Howe HS , Howe, TX - Showed flashes but was never more than bench player Grissom , Greg - 6'10 - C - 1981-1982 - - Recruited in same class as Horrocks, transferred to TCU after freshman year and became starting center there Masters , Unjel - 6'10 - C - 1999-2000 - South Oak Cliff HS , Dallas, TX - Never was a big factor, disappeared after a couple of years Barnett , Justin - 6'10 - C - 2001-2002 - Martin HS , Arlington, TX - Lots of injury problems, mostly a bench player *Byrd , Sam - 6'10 - C - 2002-2003 - Hastings HS , Alief, TX - *Muse , Curtis - 6'10 - C - 2006-2007 - Mineral Area JC (Vashon HS) , St. Louis, MO - Schindler , Doug - 6'10 - - 1988-1989 - -Doug started a couple of years with Gipson below; probably the biggest front court in NT history Schindler was not a great athlete but not a bad player Gipson , Thomas - 6'9 - C - 1990-1991 - Univ. of Texas , Seguin, TX - Get criticized a lot on board, but he was a good college player just probably underachieved *Jackson , Chris - 6'9 - C - 1999-2000 - Kimball HS , Dallas, TX - Johnson , Shawnson - 6'9 - C - 2003-2004 - LSU Transfer , Shreveport, LA - Good to great player for one semester; still don't understand a two year ship for one semester Wooden , Keith - 6'9 - F - 2006-2007 - Arizona St , Lawrence, KA - Injury prone and often out of shape but one of the best offensive centers at NT Miller , Jason - 6'9 - C - 1999-2000 - Livingston HS , Livingston, TX - Good player but transferred to OSU after soph year. Got to be a bit player there,would have been a star here Teddar , Paul - 6'9 - C - 1975-1976 - Richardson , Richardson, TX - Only guy on list, I don't remember at all Bailey , Terry - 6'8 - C - 1974-1975 - Henderson County JC , Crandall, TX - Good offensive game, maybe the best all around center to play for NT Morgan , Ronnie - 6'7 - C - 1987-1988 - South Oak Cliff , Dallas, TX - Closer to 6'5 but a great rebounder, key player in NT's first NCAA appearance; Left team after junior year, NT cited health issues ( high blood pressure) but he went on to play overseas

Interesting, in that NT's prior coach led the world in suspentions that will be nothing new to this team.

First, I stated only use the ship on a post that is deemed to have more potential than the players here. Evey time I opine about needing a post player I get a similar response; there are not many big kids and they are hard to sign. Well, I said not one thing about them having to be 6'10 or any other height and there are lots of inside players out there that are better than what NT had coming off the bench last year. NT got killed on the boards in a lot of games last year even with Odufuwa and it was not by potential NBA stars. I have nothing against Edwards, even though I posted many times that I didn't understand the signing. Whether it was due to injury or whatever; he was hardly a factor last year. I am not sure what a senior laden team had to do with his lack of success being that there was only one senior post player and overall relative weak competition on the inside. No one will be happier than I if he turns it completely around next year and become the player he way too infrequently flashed last year. I agree that he has demonstrated the intensity and desire along with occasionally great moves, but something obviously is holding him back. It may be injury related, but remember that Edwards has played four years post high school and is yet to even approach that potential everyone is counting on. I think by looking at next year team right now the biggest uncertainty is at the post. Therefore, a good inside player should be the priority in late recruiting. That does not mean, that NT signs borderline players just to fill that position or doesn't go after much better players at other positions.

I am a little concerned that NT is apparently still heavily in the recruiting mode to fill those last two ships. With the great start in recruiting, I would have hoped that JJ and group would have this class completed by now. Some good analyses above, but I side with the thoughts that NT should be aiming for that next plateau not being just being satisfied with vying for the top of the Belt. Frankly, if Mitchell plays; this team should be capable of much more than being a good Belt team. NT is stacked at the point with Chris Jones and Trey Norris coming in. Alzee Williams and Brandon Walton are also capable to handle the position. JJ has basically played a three guard offense and some of advocating a four guard approach. In the current NT offense there are basically two wings with one being the secondary ball handler or the 2 guard. Alzee Williams would seem to be the player at the 2 assuming he is back to full health. He was NT's best defensive guard and although not a great shooter does have a good drive to the basket. I see Walton as his backup. At the other wing or 3, I think it will be Jordan Williams backed up by Walton and Holmen. Williams is tough on the boards and offensively is not a replacement for Thompson but he should be a better defensive player but will have to learn to play against quicker guards. It is the two inside positions that I think are NT's biggest question. I really like Hogans energy but he is not consistent on the offensive side and hasn't shown he is anymore than an average rebounder. Outside of Hogans are three big question marks: Edwards, Holmen and Knox. Holmen was showing something right before his injury, but more at the wing than inside. Edwards looked uncoordinated, although showed some great athleticism at other times. Maybe an operation is the answer. Knox is 6'10 but hasn't realized it yet. All three of these guys could be the missing part, but I surely would not wager my season on it. Robinson will be available but I wouldn't count on him much at this point either because he seems to like to play outside and hasn't had the competition the other freshmen have. I think he will need at least a year to develop into the inside player NT needs. I don't think there is any doubt despite what the overall numbers indicate, that NT needs another post. Obviously, just signing anyone is not the answer and they should have more upside than the players already on the squad. The other ship should go to a wing player who can if nothing else provide depth if NT has anything like the injury issues of last year. This could be crucial if in fact NT does sign another post. Obviously, a transfer who has to set for a year would provide no depth and if it was my decision: that player would have to have super potential. I do hope that NT is pass the point that every rebound player from a major program is considered a great get for NT.

What are you saying? JJ is currently the second highest paid coach at NT only behind McCarney. I really don't understand all this get JJ a raise stuff, he was given a raise last year to around $300k and his senior laden heavily favored team just went .a disappointing 500 in conference. Yes, JJ has resurrected the basketball team and has signed a great recruiting class, I certainly am not oppose to JJ getting another raise, but I fail to see why so many seem to think he is vastly underpaid. Basketball unfortunately raises little revenue compared to football and JJ is already one of the highest paid in the conference. I think Jones can accomplish a lot more at NT and I am more concerned with NT raising his salary at this point than now.

Number 1, I don't how anyone could interpret the school as being anyone but La Tech. Surely, the IQ of their fan base is above the delusional myopic people who dominate their message board. Their AD would be remiss in his duties if he did not at least investigate membership in the Belt. I would oppose their membership because I don't think the Belt needs two marginal members in North Louisiana. I think their membership in the Belt much like UTSA and TSSM would give them a leg up in their programs. Although, La Tech has continually kicked NT's arse in football recruiting; I think that will quickly end especially if they are stuck in the WAC. La Tech is at a cross roads and although the majority of the fan base expresses horror at joining the Belt, the facts align more with it could be the lifeline they need to stay competitive. It is not that La Tech is not Belt worthy, the facts are they based on history would be in the top quarter, but look a little deeper. I think there are a number of programs in the Belt that have brighter prospects including NT. FAU, FIU, WKU, MTSU are all rising programs. I don't think La Tech adds anymore than ASU or ULL. I am not a fan of Troy, but they do win. USA is an unknown in football but so far so good. I am not totally opposed to La Tech, it would be a closer game and would almost be the end of the WAC if they join. I do believe if the Belt takes La Tech, they should just go ahead and get NMSU and kill the WAC for all practical purposes

Looks like RV is really spending the money, her contract with all those incentives at Charlotte is significantly higher than Stephens. Add to that the buyout and Stephens severance and RV is definitely pouring some money into WBB. Anyone else think it is ironic that we are going with a Slinker assistant. I wonder if this deal was made before Stephens was dismissed.

You are correct, baseball was only started because it was a requirement of the Southland conference and NT did the very minimum. No field much less a stadium, 11/2 ships, and a coach who only was paid the max that would not reduce his social security payments. Given the funding or lack of, NT actually was fairly competitive. The Southland after a few years dropped the requirement and NT dropped baseland.

I would like to see those chair backs you are going to buy for 30 cents a piece.

I wonder if capacity means seats or Jerry Jones style, everyone you can cram in.

I didn't give you a negative, but Lyons was arguable the best basketball player ever at NT. Kenneth scored 42 on Karl Malone and is the NT all time leading scorer. If you want to live in the past, it is great to have one like his. I have no idea why you felt it necessary to make these comments, but the discussion centered on playing college basketball nothing else.

Good grief, that was a one year's signing class, Fred Mitchell, Melvin Davis and Kenneth Williams were all signed as freshmen the same year, all would surely be considered top 10 seniors in Texas high school that year . Bailey, Pride, Mitchell, Davis and Williams were in one recruiting class. Understand? On paper that class is better than the current one excluding Tony Mitchell. However, this year's class is not over but the mid=seventies class would be almost impossible to beat based solely on high school seniors who graduated in the same year. Three top 10 seniors in the state is a class not easily matched.

KInd of conflicting statements, the best class ever, which hasn't been proven, but don't put pressure on them. Pressure can be a good thing, Jones and Williams played on the equivalent of an all star team all year and both ended up in the state championship game. About as much pressure as you can have on a high school level. Obviously, nothing is a given; look at last year's NT team. I will state unequivally if this team even without Mitchell does not have a much better conference record than last year I will be disappointed. Best class ever until proven otherwise IMO was the Robbins/Tubbs class that Blakeley inherited. It contained Fred Mitchell and Melvin Davis who where both members of the five man all state team at the highest classification. It also had Kenneth Williams a second team all state player which probably also but him in the top 10 rated players in Texas. Add to this a first team juco all american in Terry Bailey and the leading juco rebounder in Joe Pride. If you want to be generous you could also throw in Carl Jones one of the the best off guards in NT history who technically transferred the year before but became eligible with this class. All these players with the exception of Pride ended up being very good.

I think this is more reflective of the class, but Jones is still ranked too low IMO. If Mitchell plays, this could be NT's version of the Michigan Fab Five. People talk of holding off on expectations at least in the first year. Bull, great players are immediately productive. Kenny Lyons, Chris Davis, Jessie Ratliff and recently White were special players as soon as they got on the floor. All of the freshmen will not have that kind of talent but my guess is that at least one out of Robinson, Norris, Jones and Williams does and odds are great that Mitchell is. By the end of the season I think next years team could be substantally better than last year.

BS, no one yet believes that SMU is a good program and you are hanging way too much value on the CUSA conference. The Belt is bad but CUSA is not much better. If you disregard the fans, the rpi, and a post season bid you don't have to pay for; I guess SMU's scheduling makes sense. Frankly, at this point a NT loss to SMU would be worse for NT than a SMU loss to NT would be for SMU. NT gains nothing from your type of prospective by beating SMU and risks the mythical area best BB program title with a game against any metroplex rival. However, the fans would have a great game that would probably one of the highest attended contests for either school of the year., but those things I guess are of little importance

I really don't agree, a SMU win over NT would be viewed as a big one for their program specially in light of their weak schedule. The fact that both teams are now recruiting the same local players makes a potential game even bigger. I do agree the scheduling philosophy you outlined is now prevalence for most programs. However the Belt is trying to mandate a much braver approach to improve the leagues standings. It appears to me that SMU's schedule is more to save your coaches job than advance the program. It is certainly not for the fans with one of the worst oc schedules in the nation. As an aside, your coach took way to long to recognize what Magrum could do for SMU. He could have made NT a much better team this year.

You would have to throw in a lot more "what ifs" before Dodge would have been a success. Outlaw had a bad game, it happens to everyone who plays. He was the starter and NT's deep threat his junior year and is a most welcomed addition to the team. I actually think the wrs will be stronger this year, with Carey, Bynes, Strafford, Taylor and now with the surprise return of Outlaw and Olawale being switched to the position. Also as much as I would have liked to have Riley back, I think the wrs will fare better with a stronger arm at QB.

I am sure none of the Oklahoma State coaches noticed that a kid who certainly couldn't afford it was wearing thousands in jewelry, just like the SMU coaches before the death penalty didn't notice they had the worst cars in the athletic parking lot. It seems to me if college athletics really wanted to clean up, the NCAA could root out a lot of the most blatant stuff with a minimum of effort. The problem is they are far from an impartial party.

Cheating will never go away, but it could be greatly curtailed by assessing major penalties on the athletes as well as the institutions involved. There may be a few coaches that are unaware of the situation like Wacker at TCU but in most cases they are aware of it and are involved or just look the other way. It is somewhat amazing that some of the teams with the most in resources are the biggest offenders in going over the line. It is a largely unspoken but cheating is another factor that gives the "big" programs a big illegal advantage over the "have nots". I am not naive enough to believe that NT's programs have never been penalized because all the coaches that have served here and the Administration have been truly pure at heart. A bigger factor is that NT has not developed the number of rich and die hard fans that would be inclined to unethically sway players to NT. Most lower level programs are the same, but if they do transgress they seem to be much more likely to suffer major penalties than the "Big Boys" of college athletics. The legal system is not suited to for the task of dealing with college athletics and currently there is more upside than not to cheat. A coach knows that if he does not consistently win he will lose his job and most are smart enough to keep the illegal stuff far away from them. The athletes know with only a minimum of care they can escape any consequences. The only real answer to control college athletics cheating is college administrations that will not allow it. Not likely to happen, when the head football coach is much more powerful and many cases compensated much better than the President of the university.

They posted the results two days after the meet which I appreciate. No one asked anyone to recap the whole meet or anything more than they ultimately provided, so I have no idea why you think that is an excessive request.

This thread like most has taken a turn from being about NT keeping their metroplex best basketball program to playing SMU and TCU which as been discussed a lot. On the original subject, I think NT can maintain a lead for a while but it is going to be increasing tough with all three other programs taking major steps that will enhance their teams. With this years recruiting class, NT took a significant step to improve the program with not only signing a good class but with a focus on local players. Again, I think TCU will likely rapidly substantially improve their program, if their current coach doesn't have a much better year, look for his termination and a big dollar coach hired before they go to the BE. SMU much like NT has signed a great class with several local players. UTA will be interesting as they have a new arena which should upgrade their program but they do lose a big home court advantage leaving the stage. I really believe TCU, SMU and UTA will all get substantially better. As for as playing the area privates in the oc, it should happen but probably won't. It is hard to argue against if you don't believe it; read some of our SMU friend's posts. Every team not just SMU plays enough patsies that scheduling each other should be welcome by the vast majority of fans. It is not like football were oc games are few and therefore more important. SMU only scheduled NT in football because they were a horrible program and wanted to play someone they could beat. Thankfully, I guess they don't view our basketball team the same way.

NT held two track meets this weekend. I guess you shouldn't complain about something that is free, but it would be nice if they furnished results; not just the recaps. I am happy to hear about all the NT winners but not knowing who the competition was and what the comparative times, distances, and height were takes a lot away. Also only highlighting the winners and not providing the whole teams' results does IMO a disservice to the athletes and the few fans that follow T & F. Track is also a sport that even if you attend you are not likely to see all the events and identify all the participants. A minor rant, but it seems that more news could be provided. The coverage seems to be getting significant worse as year to date times are seldom updated, but having a home meet without the complete results is very small time to me. On a positive note, the team does have some very good athletes and with a couple of new coaches hopefully will show some good improvement this year and the future. It would be nice to have better coverage to follow their progress.

Jeez, what I thought was an interesting subject is interpretated as worrying about NT basketball and certainly not worthy of discussion. I would imagine most fans like to check out the local competition. If you think TCU won't improve dramatically in the BE, SMU isn't improving, and UTA doesn't give NT fits already, than I guess the subject is of little interest to you; but keep worrying about who supports the program. I hope having season bb tickets for over 20 years gives me your permission to discuss NT basketball. If it does not, let me know.

NT has been without question the best BB in the Metroplex for the last five years. However, the price of poker is going up. UTA with a brand new arena and they have always been competitive playing on the stage. SMU has signed their best BB class in a long while and is always willing to throw money at sports. The one I fear may be the most likely to improve substantially and challenge for area superiority is TCU. They will start out as doormat but their basketball will have to improve being in a league that just sent eleven squads to the NCAA's. With the class coming in NT should be able to strongly vie for the best in DFW, but it is going to be more difficult. In fact IMO NT is going to have to get significantly better to continue their position as king of Metroplex college basketball. This post has been promoted to an article