MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF

Scout also shows that La Tech already has a QB committed as of June 16th: http://247sports.com/player/aaron-allen-46036828 247 shows that Allen's offer came within days of Bean's alleged offer from them: http://247sports.com/Player/Aaron-Allen-46036828 Good point on Cumbie, forgot about him. Am I wrong to remember that he turned down another P5 who wanted to hire him away from TCU as OC? I am getting old.

Yes, I saw those. However, Scout listed his June 7th offer from SMU, but none other. No other site lists Colorado State or Louisiana Tech offers, which seem to come before the SMU offer. Were the offers pulled? Why would sites hide or not report offers? Anyone with insight re: how the sites work? Do they simply take tweets, or do they also follow up with the schools to make sure kids aren't just pumping themselves up to gain interest of other schools?

? Rams http://coloradostate.247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/Offers http://www.scout.com/college/colorado-state/2018-football-prospects?minimumInterest=Low&sortBy=LastName ? Bulldogs http://www.scout.com/college/louisiana-tech/2018-football-prospects?minimumInterest=Low&sortBy=LastName http://latech.247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/Offers ? http://www.scout.com/player/209488-jason-bean/recruiting

Awful. Worse, though, is that opponents of the death penalty will shill for both of them, claiming they are mentally ill and didn't understand what they were doing. I think their actions in planning the killings - even the original killings that landed them in jail in the first place - clearly demonstrate that they are not mentally ill, but knew exactly what they were doing. Also, I don't buy the argument that the death penalty is a deterrent. It's not. Evil people are just evil people. No criminal sits and reads law books. They simply do not give a f*ck about anyone else's life. Shit...go sit in a criminal defense attorney's office or a DA's office and listen to stories long enough and you'll see plainly that there are some people in society who are just plain evil.

Look...if Littrell and Harrell can get the right QB in here, WRs will be making 13 catches a game, not a season. That's what spread offenses are supposed to do, anyway. Hell, even Dodge had that angle down. Next man up is right, MBA,

Philip Montgomery's success goes beyond two years at Tulsa. He was with Art Briles as QB coach and OC at both Houston and Baylor. Both of those programs did well offensively while he was training QBs and calling plays. He's proves he wasn't just Briles' puppet by taking a Tulsa squad which had been losing and turning them into a record-setting scoring machine within two years. Let that last part sink in. Tulsa was 3-9 and 2-10 the two years directly before Montgomery arrived. He took them to a bowl game his first year, then led them to a 10-win season last year. He didn't wait to get his own recruits. He used what was there. There were no excuses. If he goes bowling again this year, he will be gone, as we've discussed here before. If he goes, and Littrell wins here, it is conceivable that TU comes after Littrell, with his hometown Muskogee being less than an hour away from the TU campus. His wife's family as well. I expect regional dominoes to fall in November and December after Hairgel Hands misleads Texas Tech again and is fired. Montgomery would be the perfect replacement for him inasmush as he runs the spread and has been a successful Big 12 assistant. I'd say it's a no-brainer...but, we are talking Texas Tech here. They were dumb enough to give Hairgel Hands a fat contract. They might not be able to figure out that hiring Montgomery would make them Big 12 title contenders. The dust on the plains wreaks havoc on the brains.

Yes. Louisiana Tech and Colorado State are schools that are now regular bowl participants. In particular, Colorado State, though. They've hired two coaches in a row who were SEC offensive coordinators - Jim McElwain from Alabama and Mike Bobo from Georgia. Those guys know what college QBs look like. If they have offered the kid, he's legitimate. If Littrell beats them, that's as good as beating Rocky Long and Philip Montgomery. Skip Holtz is a fine football coach as well at Louisiana Tech. He's the first coach to lead the Bulldogs to three consecutive bowl games, and he's won them all. La Tech has five total bowl wins in their history - Holtz has three of them. He knows what it takes to consistently find players that are ready to play G5-level football. Beating him on a recruit like Jason Bean would mean a great deal towards proving we are moving in the right direction. Where are you seeing he's been offered by La Tech and Colorado State, though? The sites I have show that he's only been offered by us and SMU.

This is where the coach will either earn or not earn his $1 million (yes, he'll get the $1 million one way or the other; whether it's well earned or not, I should say). Right now, assuming Littrell's staff were equal to Montgomery's and Long's, the only selling point I can see is distance to home. Tulsa and San Diego State are both farther. We have a nicer stadium than Tulsa. The Aztecs play at, but do not sell out Qualcomm, a pro football stadium. Hard to say Apogee is better. However, if ever sold out, I'd bet the atmosphere is better than a half empty Qualcomm. It's a tall order, of course. Currently, we shouldn't beat either school, as he said we should, unless both were as down as we are - or, we were as up as they both are. As stated, though, if we did win a recruit like Brin, that would make a statement. But, look...that's what they are paying Seth Littrell and his coaches to do. If they are not paying him to win recruiting battles against successful G5 schools, then why are they paying him at all? To outrecruit SFA and Texas State? Seriously? If so, cut his salary in half and give the money to a more competitive program within the athletic department. This is what San Diego State did this week - picked up a four star recruit who had many P5 offers: http://www.scout.com/player/209785-j-r-justice/recruiting?year=2017&s=73 Again, no one is standing still. Littrell and staff are paid to recruit better than they currently are. We've paid them more than any other coaching staff we ever have. He's got better facilities than any other coaching staff. He's got an IPF coming. We just completed a season where we went to a bowl game. This is the third class he will sign. He's been at bigger schools. He should know recruiting down doesn't lift you up in the long run. The recruiting is on the coaching staff. We've spent many years making excuses. We are now paying enough to lay the excuses aside and expect results.

Getting a commitment from a kid we've offered like Davis Brin: http://247sports.com/Recruitment/Davis-Brin-94497/RecruitInterests Why? (1) Brin has multiple offers from FBS with some FCS mixed in, but the majority of the offers are from FBS schools. What that says is during camps and on film, several FBS coaches see similarities in him and FBS QBs they've coached before and know can succeed at the FBS level. (2) Two of the FBS offers are from San Diego State and Tulsa. Why does that matter? Well, Tulsa is coached by former Baylor OC/QB coach Philip Montgomery, whose Golden Hurricane squad just set is shit ton of records last season with their version of the spread. If Montgomery thinks this kid is worth a scholarship, he's worth a scholarship. Ditto with the San Diego State offer. Aztec head coach Rocky Long has been successful at New Mexico and now San Diego State, neither of which are consider traditional powers. He took New Mexico to five bowl games in 10 seasons there, all five in his last seven seasons. He's guided San Diego State to bowl games in all six seasons he's been there. The Aztecs have won 11 games each of the past two season, rare territory for that program. (During last year's bowl game, they spotted our beloved Houston Cougars a 10-0 lead in the first quarter before waxing them 34-0 in the remaining three quarters. By the way...while on the topic...did anyone see where Houston QB Greg Ward, Jr. was drafted? Oh...he wasn't drafted? Never mind.) Rocky has been a head coach at G5-level programs since 1998. Before that, he was defensive coordinator at then Pac-10 schools UCLA and Oregon State. In short, if anyone knows G5-level talent, it's Rocky Long. So, if Littrell beats Philip Montgomery and Rocky Long for a recruit both have offered, that would say something. And, that is simply the crux of the matter at all positions for all recruits. Coaches see the kids at camps. They see them on film. They know who probably will and will not pan out in the FBS, whether P5 or G5. You simply can't pooh-pooh the successes of guys like Montgomery and Long. If they've offered, it means something. So, if Littrell beats them, it will mean something. And, by the same measure, it only makes sense that it also means something if the only schools we are beating are FCS and Division II. I'll hold to this belief because of how public recruiting is in the second decade of the 21st century with game film and camps everywhere - very, very few truly "slip through the cracks." And, so, you can't just build a roster on "slip through the crack" guys. You have to start winning some real head-to-head battles with guys like Philip Montgomery and Rocky Long. I know that sound like a tall order, but...no one is resting on their laurels in college football. As a coaching staff, you have to compete with other coaching staffs 365 days a year. The wins and losses during the season are in direct correlation to the wins and losses during the off-season. I love you all. Dearly. And, also, those RX Energy Herbal Tonics that Arizona tea makes. Brin's twitter: https://twitter.com/davisbrin?lang=en

This is where I am, as an alumni going into my 28th season following the program. High school coaches have seen the post-1995 UNT football movie over and over again. Only consistent winning will convince them. We've tried every other type of coach: -Coordinator from another school: Dickey and Littrell -High school coach: Dodge -Former head coach who built a loser into a bowl contender: McCarney This has been discussed in the past: it is the head coach's job to sell the school - to everyone! Alumni, casual local fans, strangers, supporters...and, yes, high school coaches and their players. We've talked about how Littrell isn't a rah-rah guy. Okay, well, he still has to sell. McCarney was a rah-rah guy, and he didn't get enough FBS-types in here. At the end of the day, what works is winning consistently. But because we don't exist in a vacuum, you do have to be realistic when you see what we are getting and realize that it's simply not different than what we got in the past. Sadly, it's as though the bowl game gave us zero advantage in recruiting. None.

You are telling me that the reason people will come watch a losing football team is because food trucks are parked outside before the game? Boy...RV really was a dimwit if it's that easy.

Exactly. Thank you. Bring competition in against our own vendors where none of the money comes to us? Plus, the concession stands in the stadium are often run by some community organization who benefits from each sale. You are not being cynical. We hired a younger guy who already had his lunch eaten by the former Baylor AD at Liberty. Gotta watch him.

You are way out of whack with the Brady/Manning thing. Manning didn't "make" Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne. Those were both First Round draft picks, like Manning himself. And, even with New England using spare parts receivers, you still have to have a QB that can get the ball where it needs to be. You must be kidding if you think we have anything close to a QB like that on our roster. I think we've gone three seasons in a row now without a QB who could complete 60% of passes attempted. We don't have the QBs or WRs to do it. And, that's the point - we aren't recruiting the type of QBs and WRs who can do it at this level. We are recruiting players coveted by FCS and Division II schools. FBS coaches pick up early and at camps that they aren't ready. This is what we do, "Okay, he winds up like a baseball pitcher; we'll coach it out of him." We take on projects, not ready pieces. At FCS and Division II level, where the action is slower all around, it doesn't matter as much that a QB's mechanics are a mess...or, that WRs run sloppy routes and/or take off plays that aren't going to involve them more than being a blocker or decoy. So, we'll simply agree to disagree, for the sake of ending the discussion: -Some of us see the same thing happening with Littrell's recruiting that happened to the four prior coaches and call it like it is - we are spending more to spin our wheels. -Others will continue to hold out for the one in a million "slip through the crack" combination of "overlooked" QBs and WRs to win maybe two seasons in a row, believing we are spending $1 million wisely for that lottery chance.

Morris threw for multiple TDs every game he played. Fine did not. Many here will argue, and rightly so, that Littrell panicked far too soon on Morris. Also, neither Brady nor Manning played in spread offenses in college, okay? Bringing them into a UNT QB discussion is...I don't even know what it is. Graham Harrell never sniffed an NFL starting position, and wasn't worthy of even carrying the clipboard for more than a couple of seasons. To pretend that he had anything to do with Green Bay's Super Bowl win is to do just that, pretend. We are not getting great talent at QB, and certainly not anyone any other FBS is seriously considering. That is a problem for the future of the program - if we want to be consistently competitive.

Agree 146%. The NFL analogy is spot on, dude. Hadn't thought of it from that angle. Everyone loves the Bill Bates-type stories. But, how many undrafted guys become Bill Bates. You can't have 52 on your roster. I'd argue you wouldn't even be able to find 26, or 13 like that. Talent is talent. And to each level - NFL, FBS P5, FBS G5, FCS, D II, etc. - it exists to whatever degree. So, again, when a kid who has been through camp after camp after camp over three to four summers, and coach after coach after coach has seen film of him or his team, and he has no FBS offers...something has been determined by people who have been working at that level for years. If we have a kid who has at least another G5 offer to two, I'm good. It shows me that another FBS-level coaching staff somewhere sees that the kid might develop. I believe after years of watching football, coaches do know to which level each player can realistically aspire. They see Adrian Peterson or D'Onta Foreman on film, and they see Antoinne Jimmerson or Jeremi Mathis. Okay, there's a difference. Peterson and Foreman were obviously men among boys. You knew they'd be pro if they could just stay relatively injury and police botter-free for three or four years. Jimmerson was a good back for us. Had a really good prep career. But, he wasn't Peterson or Foreman. There's no shame in that. He never rushed for even 600 yards for us, and finished with just under 2,000 in a four year career. He was, at times, excellent. For the vast majority of the time, he simply was what he was...a pretty good prep back who occasionally made a big play at a G5 college. But, again, he was a one offer guy, us and no one else: http://www.scout.com/player/124367-antoine-jimmerson/recruiting?year=2010&s=537 Jeremi Mathis from the Dodge era was the same. Nice high school back. Like Jimmerson at DeSoto, he played at a reliable prep football school that regularly has kids signed to college scholarships in Arlington Martin. Mathis even had FBS offers from G5 schools. But, he never panned out. And, again, there's no shame in that. The P5s knew not to offer him. A few G5s thought he might have something in the bag. At some point, there has to be a coach that can change the recruiting. Somehow UTSA landed a guy. It's frustrating to a degree. We all want the best for UNT. The issue isn't whether Seth Littrell is a good, nice guy or not. We all know he's football smart. His coaching staff also seems to be comprised on nice guys who are football smart - even if he chose not to hire very experienced guys on the offensive side. The issue is, what are we getting? So far, it is not any different than Simon, Dickey, Dodge, or McCarney. Not better, not worse. Just about the same. Which would be fine, to me, if they were paying Littrell and his assistants the same. Like anything else in life, if I'm paying more for something - a car, a house, a service, a product...dishwashing liquid...whatever you can name - I expect more out of it that if I shlep into the Family Dollar and start filling my cart. With few exceptions.

Excellent points, but there has to be a battle to being with; that's the point many of us make. With these latest recruits, the battle isn't against FBS schools, it's against FCS and Division II schools. In time, that's a problem. So, then, it's a numbers game: how many "slip through the crack" players will actually become real, FBS-level players? The answer is, not many. So, then you are stuck in the mouse wheel every four or so years when a new coach comes in: most starters are the "not many" and you have a "slip through that really was good" in just a handful of positions. It's not been a good recipe for success here. And, I want to post something here that I've posted in the past: there is no shame in being an FCS-level talent. You are still talking about a kid who is athletic and has some drive. But, it is simply a step below what is real FBS level. Otherwise, you'd have a sh*t ton more upset of P5 schools by G5s and FCS schools instead of just a handful season in and season out. I point to us being annihilated by Portland State in 2016 as an example. Think about it. Can you think of any other school on its worst day that could be run off the field, at home, like that, by an FCS? I think partially, the players quit that day. But, that cannot be the full explanation to losing 66-7 a a school one division lower than you. I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell Portland State could have done that to a lower P5. Say, Kansas or Indiana. I don't even think they could do it to any other lower G5. Tulane? UTEP? The fact of the matter is each coach inherits a roster of mainly sub-FBS players because no coach has been able to raise the bar. And, because the recent commitments have the same qualities of those landed by Dodge and McCarney before him...it just looks like trouble on the field for years to come for many of us here who have watched it for three decades now. (NOTE: I can't even imagine being an NTSU oldtimer and seeing the drop off in our competitiveness. From Abner Haynes Mean Joe to winning at Tennessee...to being blown out by Portland State and APRing our way into a bowl game at 5-7. All in one lifetime.)

And, so what does that have to do with UNT recruiting non-FBS players. Brady, Manning, and even GH played at schools that were D-IA/FBS. You are making my argument for me - the best players will win. It isn't a system winning. How many Super Bowl have the Colts won with Andrew Luck? How many did New England win before Brady? How many Super Bowl did the Houston Oilers win? They brought the high flying spread into the NFL. The players play the game. The best will make any system work. Colleges who can't get top recruits have coaching staff who are forced to say, "Well, we recruit to our system." Dumb. As if no other college "recruits to their system." Other colleges are simply recruiting the best players into their system/scheme. Sorry, man, some of us are too long in the tooth to be fooled anymore.

This is exactly right. All of the kids go to camps, most beginning in the ninth grade; some sooner. So, by the time these guys are finished with their sophomore seasons, they've been seen. The best are offered before their junior year. The rest of the best are offered between their junior and season years. If you have a guy going into his senior year who has no FBS offers, that tells you something. He has been seen by college coaches, live and on film. He has been seen by recruiting services, live and on film. (Too) many people here got whipped up about Mason Fine. He threw six TD passes, never more than one in any game, and was injured by the end of the year. It's about par for the course, I suppose for a guy who had no FBS offers either. I've said this going back at least as far as the Todd Dodge era - North Texas football doesn't exist in a vacuum. We laud these players with no other FBS offers, while our opponents, in and out of conference, are signing class after class with guys with multiple FBS offers. It's the reason we've only had four winning season since 1995. Four in 22 years. Recruiting means something. Simon, Dickey, Dodge, McCarney...none of them recruited enough D-IA/FBS-ready players. You can name some hits here and there. But, when you stack four winning seasons up against 18 losing seasons, you have to face reality. Littrell is going down the same path. And, that's fine to a point. And, for me, that point was crossed when they decided to pay him $1 million a year after a 5-8 season, then saw the recruiting class he signed.

State-themed helmets: La Tech UTSA Indiana State Northwestern (La.) State SFA

Makes sense. There are 12 FBS schools in Texas, and we are getting a guy no P5 in or out of state wants. If you assume the QB were to go in order to the top FBS Texas schools, yeah, 8-12 is us...and UTSA, Texas State, UTEP, Rice...so, it's the right place. In the real world, though, when you go to a real, national recruiting source, though, you see who the top QBs from Texas really are, and this kid isn't listed: Dual-Threat - https://n.rivals.com/position_rankings/football/2018/DUAL Texas preps check in at #11, #18, #20, #21, and #26 #s 11, 18, and 20 are committed to Mississippi State, Oklahoma State, and Oklahoma, respectively. #s 21 and 26 are not committed yet, but do not list us. #21 does have an offer from Arkansas State; SMU is the top G5 offer for #26. We have offered neither of them. Pro-Style - https://n.rivals.com/position_rankings/football/2018/PRO Texas preps check in at #16 and #22, and are committed to Texas Tech and BYU So, what does it tell us? Well, it tells us what we already know: our coaching staff isn't recruiting the top QBs in Texas. Teams from our of state are. Other G5s are. We are left, then, with what we are left with - a "Texas Football" list guy who has already been seen and passed over by everyone else...even in Texas. Very sad that a nationally ranked kid from Texas has an offer from Arkansas State, and we are where? Again, some of us are simply not buying the same bullsh*t we may have bought with Dodge and McCarney. The results have looked the same for Littrell's first two classes; and the third class isn't being filled with anything different either.

No, they shouldn't because they don't have any QBs that know how to play QB like they do in the NFL. The Chiefs wasted a draft pick on Mahomes, who will sit behind Alex Smith anyway. That was their prerogative. All other NFL franchises understand the failure of Texas Tech QB in the pros.

The players at OU must be dumb. If this kid had just knocked out a girl instead of stealing property from baseball players and fencing it, he'd be given a redshirt year: https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/collegesports/2017/06/19/oklahoma-s-will-sunderland-suspended-indefinitely-following-arrest-concealing-stolen-property

The "fit into scheme" bit is baloney. It's an excuse. Troy Aikman...the guy ran the wishbone at OU under Switzer, broke his leg, then transferred to UCLA and slung it around to the tune of becoming an NFL star. He played under whatever scheme the school he enrolled in at the time ran. "Fit into scheme." We are not getting top players. Scheme or no scheme. We're not even getting the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh, etc. best. Every player who is offer by anyone is going to be part of whatever scheme a coaching staff has. The whole, "well, we don't get certain players because of our scheme...." What kind of stupidity is that? In Texas, and everywhere else, almost every school throws the ball more than they run now. They all are running some form of the spread "scheme." "Scheme." Baloney. We're just not recruiting FBS-ready players. "Scheme" talk is nothing more than admitting that you can't get the best, or anywhere near the best, so you are throwing in the towel and just taking whichever players will commit. Lazy. "Scheme."

Note to all: We didn't hire P.J. Fleck, we hired Seth Litrrell. Here was P.J. Fleck's 2nd recruiting class: https://westernmichigan.rivals.com/commitments/football/2014 Of note: -Western Michigan had just gone 1-11 under Fleck -In spite of that, he signed 14 3-star players After a 5-7 season where we APR'd our way into a bowl game, Littrell signed a class with four 3-star players. So, again...enough with the "P.J. Fleck did this, P.J. Fleck did that." Littrell has not come close to what P.J. Fleck did with his first two Western Michigan classes.

I do have an idea of whether or not they can compete. I watched them go 5-8 last, winning three on second half outbursts from one player: Jeffrey Wilson. I saw a "spread" offense with as many TD passes as the 2015 Dan McCarney squad. Nothing has been added on either side of the ball, or in the coaching staff, that would lead to anything more competitive. The ceiling is 6 or 7 wins, if all goes perfect. All rarely goes perfect, so 4 or 5 wins is more likely. Then, with another class akin to his first two signed in February 2018, the roster will be mostly his recruits; and, so 2018 is likely when we'll see the really big drop off in competitiveness. Also, because I became a student and began following UNT football in 1990, I don't need a re-hash of why were haven't been competitive. There are a myriad of reasons - all true, unfortunately. The simple fact is whether you are playing a one on one or a team sport, the better talent almost always wins. And, they do win more consistently. It's not schools signing FCS and Division II-only offers that are winning championships in FBS football. So, we do have a pretty good idea of who will compete in the future and who will not based on recruiting. Dam McCarney didn't raise the level of recruiting, though he had a hit here and there. And, so far, Littrell isn't raising the bar either. Some will be willing to wait for the failure to go ahead and call if failure. Those of us who have seen 18 losing seasons over the last 22 years will simply not wait. The recruiting looks underwhelming, so we expect the football to be underwhelming. We can't say we didn't expect it when it happens. Every year, I predict we will go 6-6. And, that's my prediction again this year. It leave little room for disappointment when we don't hit it.