Side Show Joe
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GoMeanGreen.com
Posts posted by Side Show Joe
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9 hours ago, greenminer said:
I've seen how different people demand different types of consequences. Some board members have gotten pretty vocal about how they demand some explanations. Apologies at a microphone in a front a broadcast. I personally don't need that. I need them to shut up and get to work. If they can't fix it, fire them. And maybe what we are learning from this is that Wren has no desire to show the public dirty laundry.
I get what you're saying though, and I think the frustration in those big game losses was amplified when we still threw more money at SL.
So here we are, now, recruiting better and I believe (not the only one) that any termination would be counterproductive. Billy has touched on this a couple times:
UNTAPPED POTENTIAL:You make some good points, but I for one have no interest in apologies at the microphone. I want evidence of real change.
I get tired of hearing the same "we have to focus on getting another day better", and "we have to be accountable and make sure our players are too". Because we hear the same excuses every time we lose. And, that is too often. I see no point in trying to prevent the airing of our dirty laundry, when everyone already knows it. So to me Wren's silence comes off as indifference.
I actually pay very close attention to recruiting. That is why I have been posting for a few seasons about our issues on both offensive and defensive line. Have we improved in recruiting? Absolutely. North Texas has become one of the better recruiters among the G5. But that doesn't tell the whole story in this new age of the transfer portal. To put it simply, the recruiting game has changed, and Littrell hasn't figured it out yet. Just like his lack of attention to recruiting the lines got Mason Fine pummeled and cost us bowl wins and conference titles. Littrell's failings in using the portal to address needs will continue to cost us when we play teams like SMU.
I'm not totally doom and gloom. I do expect us to be better next season (if we play). I can see us contending for our divisional title and playing in a bowl game. But, until we get better at the new system of recruiting, we will probably continue to lose those bowl games, and OOC games against AAC level competition (like SMU) or higher.
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20 minutes ago, greenminer said:
We are fully invested into our program. The one consistent problem, IMO, was lack of recruiting up until 1-1.5 years ago. SL figured something out. In theory, these new guys should start emerging/contributing by the time they're sophs....some even earlier.
In retrospect, I think we also threw too much money at SL his first two years. We should be handing out bonuses and extensions for conference titles, rankings, and bowl wins. Not as rewards for hitting 5 wins, or getting obliterated in the postseason after not winning a CUSA title.I disagree. I think for a program to be fully invested, there has to be consequences for failure. As it pertains to football, I have yet to see any consequences under Wren's watch. And, no word at all regarding Littrell's failings.
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I'd like replica championship rings like we are doing for basketball.
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16 hours ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:
So I know I’ll probably get backlash from this like saying I’m “cherry picking”, but there is no doubt that SMU has done a great job handling the virus and how it spreads through the program. They haven’t had a positive test since like July, and haven’t missed a game.
The rules that are in place for them are clearly more strict and compact, unlike our program that has done the opposite. Now of course it can be easy to catch the virus, but I’ve seen many of the players out partying (some without masks) at Fry and others. For example, after the MTSU game, I saw many players at Fry street all partying and around others like it’s nothing.
My main point is, does our staff really put a priority at these kind of things? Because if they did, I don’t think we would’ve missed 2-3 games.
Did the athletic department do something about this? No wonder we haven't played a game since.
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Playing as an Independent is only an option if North Texas were to actually outgrow C-USA and have no better conference options. Right now, we can't even win this dumpster fire of a conference. The fact that Marshall enjoys a top 20 ranking while residing in C-USA proves our problems are completely self inflected. The bigger questions are... What have we been doing wrong? & How do we correct it?
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15 minutes ago, greenjoe said:
Remember that I said this today:
LIBERTY WILL BE RANKED IN THE TOP 25 WITHIN 5 YEARS AND BE IN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP HUNT WITHIN 10.
While I believe Liberty will still be a strong G5 in 5 season, I'm skeptical about them being in the playoff discussion. I will say, they appear to be serious about being a dominate G5 program and a top 25 team. I'm jealous.
Speaking of being a serious G5 program... Utah State fired Gary Anderson today after just one season in his second stint with the program. In 2019 Anderson led Utah State to a 7-6 record with a bowl appearance. Utah State started 2020 with an 0-3 record. Seems like Utah State is serious about winning too.
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We can't get on the field, but in just their 2nd FBS season, Liberty has won their 7th straight, taking down a 4-2 Virginia Tech team. Just venting since I'm not watching us play today.
On a side note... I will take a day off from work and drive 2.5 hours to be at the Dec 3rd make up game with LA Tech. I may complain a lot, but I do love my Mean Green. I'm just tired of watching other programs rise, while we flounder. Rant over.
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This is the game I've been waiting for all season. LT has been the most consistent program in C-USA since joining the conference with us in 2013. The Bulldogs have won 6 straight bowl games, against the likes of Miami, Illinois, SMU, and Navy. And, they have done it all with a fraction of our budget.
Littrell is currently 1-3 versus the LA Tech program. They ended our incredible 4-0 start in 2018, on the same day we unveiled the Mean Joe Greene sculpture at Apogee. I do not like them....
In my opinion this is a game we must win, and it is a conference series we must begin to dominate if we are going to elevate our program. I cannot wait for Saturday.
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17 hours ago, GrandGreen said:
I don't expect you to get too excited over any positive NT stat. Just continue your fire Littrell mantra.
SMU was just a superior team when NT played them. NT was behind by 10, 14, and 7 at the half in the other games.
Not good, but the opponent is hardly going to stop playing defense with those leads. You could, but would never just as easily support the theory that NT's offense just got better in the second half.
Before you post it, you certainly can state your views as many times as you want.
I am unlike you willing to wait till more games are played, to come to an overall opinion on this year's team.
Nope. In those games our offense was most productive in the 4th QT, after we were too far behind to win. At the end of the 3rd QT in our losses we were losing by even more points than at halftime of those games. Since our deficits only grew in the second half of these games, the offense actually got worse. At the end of the 3rd against SMU we were behind by 41, against Southern Miss we were behind by 17, and against Charlotte, NT was behind by 21. None of that is evidence of being one of the best offenses in the country. If we had one of the best offenses in the FBS, we would post more than 2 TD's through 3 quarters against the likes of SMU, USM, and Charlotte.
Let's be honest, against SMU, USM, and Charlotte, most our our offensive scoring was garbage points in the 4th quarter. Against SMU, we posted 14 4th quarter garbage points. Against Southern Miss, we posted 14 4th quarter garbage points, and against Charlotte we posted 7 4th quarter garbage points.
Here are the scores at the end of the 3rd quarter in those games...
NT 14 SMU 55
NT 10 Southern Miss 27
NT 14 Charlotte 35
NT 42 MTSU 28
The truth is our offense played great against a terrible MT team, but aside from that has put up some big numbers mostly late in games against some of the worst teams in the FBS. #8 Southern Miss, Charlotte, and #3 MTSU are all ranked in the bottom 10 this week or on the waiting list. While the rankings are a spoof, they are fairly accurate in projecting just how bad G5 programs are.
Also, we are half way through the season, and the easy part of the conference schedule is done. It is only going to get harder from here. I honestly believe every team left on our schedule will play better defense than those conference teams we have already played.
My stated opinion of our offense is based on where we are at this moment. As we play better defense it will certainly evolve. But, you are correct about my opinion on firing Littrell. He needs to go after this season is done.
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6 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:
NT is apparently full of fans that think one of the top offenses in the land does it with a poor offensive line. As far as some of the comparisons being offered, NT is at this point not as good as SMU and very top G5 programs.
NT has done well offensively against every team they have played. It is the defense that must improve. Hopefully, the Muts game signals a continuing improvement in the defense.
Overall the North Texas offense has done well in the second half of games after opponents have put us away. Sure we are posting some points on the board, but a lot of those points are coming after the games have been decided. The MT game is the only game where we scored meaningful points late in an FBS game this season. In each of our first three games this season, our offense could only muster one touchdown by halftime. That is not the sign of an offensive juggernaut. Facts are stubborn things.
Halftime scores from this season's FBS Games...
North Texas 7 SMU (5-0) 34
North Texas 10 Southern Miss (1-3) 20
North Texas 7 Charlotte (1-2) 21
North Texas 21 MTSU (1-5) 28
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2 hours ago, GrandGreen said:
When can we be positive in your view? Give us your criteria, after winning the national championship or after a winning CUSA record.
Most teams can only win one game at a time.
Again that bad team was favored. NT has not turned any corner, but any win is a lot better than losing.
There are only two good teams in the league and NT plays only one. So I guess if NT doesn't beat UAB, it's a bad end of the last half of the season.
It is still a free country. People can be positive any time they want. I think everyone on the board was happy for Darden following the game. And many of us were very happy to see Bean finally get another shot at QB.
For me, and this is my personal criteria, I need to see North Texas beat more winning programs. I highly doubt MT will finish their season with a winning record. The simple fact is Littrell hasn't consistently beaten winning programs since 2017, when we beat 5 of them. Since 2017, Littrell only beaten 1 (Southern Mississippi 2018). And, that is a major reason why I am done supporting him as our coach.
LT is a thorn that must be removed, but we'll discuss that issue soon enough.
Right now, I'm just hoping we can handle UTEP in El Paso. If we win two in a row, that would be nice.
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1 hour ago, greenminer said:
Oh man, I think we're perfectly in line with our priorities: take care of the trenches or nothing else matters. I just happen to think there has been an uptick in recruiting in the lines. @BillySee58 just elaborated on that.
Time will tell! Thanks for your honesty. #GMGI agree. Littrell has improved his recruitment on the lines. No doubt about that. On the surface it looks good and should help us be more competitive against the lower to middle of the road G5 programs. The problem is that our improvement isn't enough to help us catch up with the likes of SMU. When looking at the 2019, 2020, and even the 2021 classes, we are not recruiting offensive and defensive linemen at the level of SMU. In 2019, our highest rated OT came in at #144, while SMU's OT recruit came in at #47. In 2020, we sign the #43 OC recruit in the country, but SMU signed #16. Even in our current 2021 recruiting class, our WDE recruit is ranked #90, while SMU's is ranked #70. And if you look at our head to head battles for linemen, we are not even competitive with SMU. Since the 2019 class, we are 0-7 against SMU in head to head recruiting battles for offensive and defensive line recruits. So yes, we have improved in our recruitment of linemen, but not to the point where we can close the gap with the programs we wish to call our football peers. I just feel like if we don't acknowledge this fact, we cannot move forward and fix the problem. I appreciate you hearing me out and GMG!
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43 minutes ago, Udomann said:
What is there to say? We beat what might be the worst FBS team or close to it. We've still never accomplished anything meaningful. Players are leaving. And our coach has a contract so bad we can get out of it.
Sure we are optimistic that we can improve. Cautiously. But we ain't there yet. Just taking a breath and hoping we don't make bottom 10 again with our 1.8mm albatross.
Folks just have nothing left to say.
^ This. I think it's funny that some think we have turned the corner after just one win over a very bad MT team.
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On 10/19/2020 at 4:43 PM, greenminer said:
When I read posts from members like @Side Show Joe, I get the feeling that they are to the point that it doesn't matter until we start winning big games. I can be on board with that. And they believe it won't ever happen under SL. 2019 and 2020 signees be damned. I'm not on board with that.
I personally think consistent recruiting has been missing in Denton for a long time, up until the 2019 class, and this is the root of a lot of our problems. I am excited to see how the program responds to this recent W, and moves forward through 2021.You are not far from my thinking. I honestly believe Littrell will never lead us to consistently winning the bigger G5 games necessary to challenge for the new year's access bowl. It has been years since he has beaten a program that finished their season with a winning record. As for the '19 and '20 recruits... Yes, they are much better than the quality he was bringing in when he first got to UNT. But, he still isn't bringing in enough high ranking talent on our offensive and defensive lines, and he isn't utilizing the transfer portal as effectively as the better G5 programs. So, I believe we will continue to fail against the likes of SMU. I want more for North Texas. I know it isn't popular to make these remarks, but I have to be honest about where I feel we are headed.
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8 hours ago, GrandGreen said:
No, Littrell does not need to go and isn't likely to go anywhere. It would serve no purpose, the terminate him during the season. Now if you want to find an extra few million to buy him out after the season go to it.
A lot of people like you are downplaying the win. Obviously, MTSU is a bad team if NT can beat them; so the game means nothing. I will take any kind of win this season and this was an away game.
This was NT's best game and it had a lot to do with most of the players being available to play. Just like some of the losses were abetted by a lot of key players being out. Coronavirus cannot be dismissed as a factor this year, no matter how many opine that every team has to deal with it.
At this point, NT is actually favored in the next game. So it will be a meaningless win, I suppose if NT prevails.
Save your fire LIttrell mantra to after the end of season. It won't happen, but at least it is a remote possibility.
I have already explained that he should be allowed to finish the season, with the understanding that he would not return next season. I just don't want him back next year.
If you honestly think the other teams are not dealing with the same COVID issues, than I don't know what to tell you. You are choosing to only account for half of the factors. MT was down 6 players yesterday. Those are the facts.
North Texas is favored in our game against UTEP, but don't sleep on UTEP. They are 3-2 and gave LA Tech all they could handle in their last game.
I will not save my fire Littrell position for after the season. You have your opinion, and I respect that. I also have an opinion. And in my opinion, our team will continue to be drug through the mud by the better teams we schedule as long as Littrell remains in charge. Yes we beat MT yesterday, but will they finish with a winning record? I doubt it. Until we begin beating winning programs, we still have major problems. I know it isn't popular to express this opinion on the board, but it is the truth.
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6 hours ago, UNTLifer said:
Fire Coach O, Herman, Riley, etc...
Apples to oranges...
We got a much needed win against a really bad MT team, and I'm happy we got it. But, lets not pretend this is the beginning of a turnaround just yet. MT may well lose the rest of the games on their schedule. I don't think anyone is disputing that we have some serious talent at the skill positions. My main problem is with the talent on our lines, because I feel that is where games are won and lost. MT had worse lines and we were able to take care of business. That won't be the case when we face the likes of UAB, LA Tech, and maybe even UTSA. Littrell still needs to go.
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I'm really shocked MT hasn't put a spy on Bean. At this point why not?
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If the defense doesn't give away too many more TD's we should win this one. But, I'm going to tap the breaks a little. Middle is pure garbage. The real test is how we play against LA Tech (who has owned us), and UTSA (who played Army tough today).
Despite how this season ends, Dardin has been a joy to watch. So, happy for him. I'm glad Bean finally got back on the field. I have to wonder how our games against Charlotte and USM may have turned out. Also, the RB stable is incredible. Hats off to those players and Cobbs. What a job if coaching he is doing.
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Stock has been at MT for a long time. He knows how to make halftime adjustments. I expect Bean to have a spy on him in the second half.
I hope Littrell is ready to make adjustments too.
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12 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:
Most of us have no idea what Baker is doing or not doing. It should be obvious an AD is not going to publicly berate an active coach.
Many would think it unfair to judge a coach this season, when multiple players are routinely unavailable. . Plus all teams are losing unparalleled attendance dollars, while adding high expenses for dealing with the coronavirus environment. So buying out a massive contract (at UNT's level) is probably not even an option.
This is just an excuse. Every program is dealing with multiple players being out. Our problem is that Littrell never acquired the talent needed to begin with (recruiting/portal), and now we are trying to develop young guys before they are ready. This was supposed to be a rebuilding year (.500), not a basket case.
Regardless of the factors surrounding our program, it is Wren's job to fix it. Keeping Littrell for a few more seasons in the hope that he develops our young players is not a realistic option if UNT is serious about football, and it will hurt the health and overall perception of our program. Wren doesn't have to publicly berate Littrell to let the fan base know he is working on the problem. There are simple statements that would imply he is actively working on the issue.
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In just their 3rd season as an FBS program, Liberty is setting at 5-0 on the season with wins over Syracuse, WKU, and FIU. But, Littrell needs a few more season to develop our young players.....
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6 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:
Unless our team full of sophomores and freshmen develop like they should and this season is just part of the process.
I understand your position, but don't you think it is fair to question why we are even in this situation?
A head coach making $1.865 million a season, should not have us in this situation in his fifth season in charge. Other coaches don't need this much time to develop players. Liberty just beat Syracuse today. We are not what we should be. If Littrell was going to build us into something special we would be there by now.
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I added the $13 a month regional sports package to my Dish subscription. Now I can watch it on Ch. 412-28.
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This is as optimistic as I can get for today's game.... Go Mean Green.
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UTSA DC placed on adminstrative leave
in Mean Green Football
Posted
I will go ahead and eat my crow. I wanted Nix here at UNT. I'm still not a fan of Bowen. But, if Nix is let go by UTSA, than I certainly admit Littrell was smart to pass on him.