[Evan Roman]

Evyn (is anyone going to correct the spelling on this thread title?), at least has been spoken well of by the North Texas radio announcers for hitting hard (and making the tackle). Who else on defense fits that description?

[For What It's Worth]

Yeah, the secret of Carroll football was how great their defense played. Everyone looked to their offense, but defense was what won them championships.

I have to agree, based on the Euless Trinity/SLC playoff game last year, which turned out to be a defensive struggle between two otherwise very high scoring (and widely recognized) offenses, 22-21. It really wasn't a very impressive game by the SLC offense; their offensive line was having a hard time protecting Riley Dodge, who may have received a concussion during the game. It probably is true that SLC only won because of a coaching mistake-an easily read fake punt by Trinity, in the last few minutes of the game. Both defensive units were outstanding in that game; I wish North Texas could have signed Trinity's Youri Yenga, rated as best defensive player in the state by some (signed by SMU). I don't think I've seen a more athletic hit on a quarterback than the one he delivered on Dodge by leaping over the SLC offensive line. Still, for the SLC defense to hold that Trinity offense the way they did for most of that game was no small achievement.

[When Was North Texas Football At Its Best...]

Rod Rust preceded Hayden Fry.

Thanks for the correction, Ibleedgreen; now corrected. I actually started doubting that sequence shortly after posting, but got busy elsewhere.

[When Was North Texas Football At Its Best...]

It would be great to say that Odus Mitchell or North Texas, for that matter, were great visionaries, but they were not.

North Texas was integrated in 1956 due to a court case. If I recall correctly (and I've slept a few times since then) a woman, who was trying to get a doctorate in education, brought suit against the then all-white university. She won and was admitted in 1956. In 1957, Abner, Leon and a handful of other students enrolled as undergraduates. While there were a few isolated incidents, the transition went rather smoothly.

In that era, freshmen could not play on the varsity. The major schools, which North Texas had become a few years earlier, had a freshman team. They played other major college freshman teams, junior varsitys of the small colleges, and junior colleges.

Odus Mitchell gave very few scholarships. If you were a heralded all-stater then you might be given one. Mostly, he had players come to Denton and tryout. He would then evaluate those who tried out and then award scholarships to those whom he thought were the best. He didn't recruit Abner. Abner's brother brought him to Denton for a tryout. I've heard that Odus didn't think very highly of Abner at first because his clothes (probably hand-me-downs) were too large, making him look small. However, as soon as he saw Abner perform, he had his scholarship. Abner Haynes and Leon King, were personable and talented enough, that they survived the sometimes harsh treatment of some players on the squad. A few of the team leaders took them under their wing and helped make the transition as smoothly as was possible. Abner was an instant success; Leon, less so, and did not return for his varsity years.

Hayden Fry was revered by the president of the college, recent alumni, and monied townspeople. Two of his biggest allies were the president of the university, C.C. 'Jitter' Nolen, and Newton Rayzor. Nolan was able to hire Hayden by combining the salaries of head coach and athletic director. Newton Rayzor was the primary source of funds for any of Hayden's projects.

Rod Rust was a good coach when he had the talent but wasn't a very good recruiter. He won big with inherited talent but couldn't sustain that same level. He was mostly a defensive coach who was at his best as a coordinator.

That's pretty good insight, GrayEagleOne. I am aware that the desegregation was court ordered, but it seemed limited. I do wonder if Mitchell be seen as taking any initiative, or was he just responding completely to outside pressure, whether from the Court, or University administration.

[When Was North Texas Football At Its Best...]

After just visiting Arkansas, and I do realize it's much different than it was then, but during the late 60's UA was bidding for a national championship three years straight. In '68 UA finished 10-1 when their only loss was against Texas(39 to 29). Considering that NT finished 8-2 that year and amazingly includes a 17-15 nail biter loss to that same Arkansas team a week after UA's game with Texas then I would say the late 60's era teams were our greatest in regards to all-time.

From '66 to '69 NT went 30-8-1

Thanks for that analysis, Rick. Pretty good stuff. I haven't followed the program long enough (I enrolled in 74) to know that much about the coaching, players, system, etc. for that time frame. I had suspected that late 60's era would be favored by someone; I'd love to know more details about it.

[When Was North Texas Football At Its Best...]

I just thought this might produce some positive thoughts. Not necessarily just single seasons, but maybe spans of years like the late 50's and early 60's after North Texas was the first Texas University to integrate. Ws it coaches like Odus Mitchell who saw that the future was integration of college athletics? The players such as Abner Haynes he recruited? Support of the administration and community in the Hayden Fry era? Was the early success of Rod Rust at all related to his coaching, or just the talent base Mitchell left him?

[The Real Reason We Are Getting Drilled]

Or maybe we should recruit from Odessa Permian, after what they did to Trinity...

Smitty, based on the results of that game, and the way Permian has played so far, we SHOULD recruit from Permian. However, most of us Eulessers (or whatever we're called) would agree with coach Lineweaver that Permian is good, but Trinity played badly that night. I DO think that, whatever the results of this season (and Trinity's prospects are looking better recently), that Trinity has consistently had strong offensive line play. I don't think they should just be judged entirely on the Permian game, where a Trinity quarterback, starting his 2nd game, as I recall, turned the ball over 5 times. I also think those turnovers make it hard to judge the Trinity defense, as they were defending a short field all night. Living in this area, I don't really know enough about Permian's players, other than hearing their quarterback, Taylor Byrd, being highly praised. I'm not sure we're looking for more QB's at this point. I think many of us will see more detailed media coverage of other Permian players by the end of the season. If we see players in the positions we need, we certainly should make an effort to recruit them. In my opinion, we need better offensive linemen, and a variety of defensive players. Trinity, in my opinion, would be a good place to look for such players. Another question is how much relationships between coaches and programs matter in recruiting. From what I've read about the signing of Micah Mosley, it mattered there. I've read about negative feelings Dodge has had about Permian, but don't know if that's just intenseness of a rivalry, or something that would present difficulties recruiting from there. I know there are personal and professional relationships between Dodge, the Carroll coaching staff, and coach Lineweaver at Trinity. Sorry to go on this long, but feel the shellacking Permian gave Trinity this year was just one game-although I hope they have a rematch in the playoffs.

[Wow...now I Know We Are In Trouble, When]

I have noticed in the recent posts that DD has been defended quite a bit.

Will there be a "Bring Back Coach Dickey" campaign now???

Anyway...we need to move on from either bashing or defending DD and focus on the current coaching staff.

I agree; no matter how anyone feels about DD, he's gone and has his own problems. Time to deal constructively with our own. By the way, are you in N.C.? I and family will be there to vacation near Blowing Rock in a couple of weeks.

[Is This Our Worst Team Ever?]

Now, see, I take the opposite viewpoint. It is HOW we lost that gives me hope. The OU game could have been dickeyballed into maybe a 50 point loss, and Arkansas perhaps a 35 point loss. We could have just rolled over, conceded the game, and then tried to make final margin as nice as it could be.

What's interesting to me is how many folks from the big schools realize that's what's happening. That "never say die" attitude is what has really been missing from the program, and it has been noticed. I heard some OU fans on the way back to the NT Exes bus shake their heads in amazement and say "you guys just don't know when to give up, do you?" My boss told me the other day that the way we fought overshadowed the way we lost.

I am always bummed that we lose. I always hate getting shellacked by a bigger, stronger, and faster team. But I'm proud of the team for not calling it a day until the final whistle. It is easy to talk about these things when you're winning. When you are getting your ass kicked, it tends to be a little harder. But they've done it. And that what makes me proud of the team.

You know, I hear you Illuvius. It's no secret that I'm a big fan of the Euless Trinity FB program, and was glad to see them handle the 2nd ranked 4A team, the Waco Lions, handily 2 weeks ago. However, I really loved seeing that Waco team keep fighting and finaly getting on the scoreboard with a few minutes left in the game; that almost made me wish their star RB wasn't out from injury. There's something about that never say die attitude! Another North Texas like thing-they had a great band!

[The Real Reason We Are Getting Drilled]

I'll stick with my original post on this forum, that we need to recruit more guys from Euless Trinity! Wanted: blockers and tacklers!

[Can Anyone Tell Me?]

Well, someone should always do a head count, either a player on the field or a coach in the pressbox and use a timeout if the count is off. Georgio alluded to this one play later in the radio broadcast as having a negative impact on NT for the rest of the game.

Well, this, in addition to the 2 blocked punts against FAU last week, makes me wonder if a little more attention needs to be paid to preparing the special teams.

[Can Anyone Tell Me?]

I missed the start too but was told we held Arkansas on their first series and when they punted we had too many men on the field (12) which was a 15-yard penalty and they got the ball back and scored in like 3 plays. How can a player/coach get confused and have too many on the punt return team at the start of a game?

Thanks, NT80! I believe I've got it now. And, sorry to answer your question with another question (or 2), but who is our special teams coach, and are we cutting him a little too much slack in this forum?

[Can Anyone Tell Me?]

Sorry that I missed the start of the game, or if someone else has posted about this, but how was it that Arkansas got the ball at our 35 after we received, I do understand there was a North Texas penalty, but how did it result in Arkansas at UNT 35?

[The Real Reason We Are Getting Drilled]

Hey, I noticed one guy in the game chat tonight seemed to be making fun of my town (which is evident from my screen name, I guess). One reason I came up with that name was to call attention to the kind of hard hitting Offensive Linemen AND defensive players we have in the Euless Trinity program. Call me old fashioned, but it's a thing of beauty to watch the local kids moving the line of scrimmage towards the opposing secondary.

[Drc: Dodge To Let Vizza Play The Next Several Games, Yes!]

Here is what I hope. Since this is a non-conf game that we're not expected to win, we could use this as an opportunity to reevaluate the QB position against some of the best defensive talent they will see. Treat it almost like a scrimmage. Rotate Meager and Vizza right from the start. If the score is close at halftime, then stick with whoever is playing best and make a run for the win. If the score is not close (due to the HS DC that can't make adjustments ), then let Vizza finish out the game and get a really good look at him.

I like your "quarterback rotation" concept. So far, I've only watched a small part of UNT football in person, at SMU; perhaps for that reason, I haven't decided whether Meager or Vizza is best. But, since the Sun Belt School schools are really playing for the conference championship and a chance for the New Orleans Bowl, I must agree that the Arkansas game could be viewed as an opportunity to evaluate talent. I do think Dodge has the background, having lived through a quarterback controversy at UT, to finesse the situation. I like what the TCU coach said last week, to the effect that "We don't have a quarterback controversy, we have two quarterbacks".

[Hello From Euless, Texas]

is that Ed in your avatar?

Thanks for responding Greenminer; I just picked the Avatar off the forums "base avatar" list, although I must admit to bearing a physical resemblance to my own avatar (the glasses?). Also, I agree with your assessment of Vittatoe; a great kid with great character. Too bad UNT missed out on him, but I predict a great career for him at UTEP. Wish he could have pulled out the win against Tech last week, but just another great back and forth game there!

[Hello From Euless, Texas]

Howdy EulessisMore. I love your name. As the former Director of Parks and Recreation in Euless for 16 years, Euless is really MORE! No doubt, I was always upset how few players we recruited from the power Trogans. But, that goes for other programs in the Metroplex. As you said, Coach Dodge and Coach Lineweaver are friends and have great respect for each other.

I can't imagine us recruiting MANY Trogans in future years. The Black Attack will be GRAND in Mean Green!

Welcome Aboard! Texas Star ROCKS!

Rick Herold

ParksAndRecRick

Thanks for your kind words Rick; I am thinking that rather than " can't imagine us recruiting MANY Trogans in future years", you meant " CAN imagine us recruiting MANY Trogans in future years". Just my guess. By the way, your name sounds kinda familiar; I'm wondering when you left Euless Parks and Rec. I live next to Wilshire Park, and have talked with some Euless Parks and Rec staff over the last 6 years that I lived there.

[Hello From Euless, Texas]

I totally agree. Lineweaver is a great coach and he has a lot of big guys over there that I'd love to see playing for UNT.

Thanks for the kind comment. I met Lineweaver once while out walking my dog. I decided then that he was an excellent person and that I would start following Trinity football. After watching some games, I also came to consider him a "great coach". I can't wait to see their home opener weekend after next...from what I've heard, they have another bunch of great players this year! I'll have to check that schedule; hope it's not another Saturday game like Tyler Lee!

[Hello From Euless, Texas]

Neat. I live near Fuller-Wiser and Mid-Cities.

But only until October, when I move back to Carrollton.

Hey there neighbor! Thanks for making me feel so welcome on my first posting here.

[Hello From Euless, Texas]

I hope to see more recruits from Trinity. That fake punt y'all went for in Bi-district was a nice, early Christmas present!

Well, i wasn't going to bring that up, but now that you have...I just didn't want to appear to be blaming Steve Lineweaver for that loss. Hey, I never would have though of that fake punt, but then, his staff came up with a great defensive strategy for that game, putting Trinity in position to (darn it!) almost pull out the win!

[Hello From Euless, Texas]

I'm hoping this first post works! I just thought I'd mention that both the passing game (hallelujah that we're throwing now!) and running game (need more of it) could benefit from improved blocking. I've been lurking in the forum for months now, and couldn't help but notice mention of injuries in the offensive line. Solid offensive line play has been a hallmark of Euless Trinity football in recent years. Trinity won state in 2005 (5A Large School division, while Carroll was winning in 5A Small School division) behind great blocking. Many (myself included) think Trinity would have won again in 2006 if not for a late touchdown by Carroll in Bidistrict. A big (pun intended) reason for this success is Euless' large population of Tongans (immigrants from the South Pacific island nation of Tonga). The size and athleticism of these young men is impressive to watch. I had been wondering if the run oriented style of play at Trinity would be a poor preparation for the dodgeball offense, but noticed a thread discussing the introduction of the spread to the Trinity offensive mix. I congratulate Coach Dodge for recruiting the Trinity players he did; Marcus King and Jordan Scoggins will be great contributors at some point, but want the UNT-Euless Trinity pipeline to become even better established. By theway, Trinity head coach Steve Lineweaver has Southlake connections himself. He worked as an assistant there and has a son who is an assistant there. The son arranged for the Dodge White House visit to be as "welcoming" as it was; another Lineweaver, Steve's Daughter, is Laura Bush's aide (no political statement on my part, just to mention there are personal links between these football families that can lead to good communications). Speaking of communication, when Dodge announced his 2007 recruiting class, and told little stories about the different recruits, he mentioned that Trinity's Marcus King, after committing, would send him text messages about players to recruit. I hope he can keep that up, as he talked his teammate Jordan Scoggins into signing on! I'll try this link talking about Trinity's first game this year. Hope it works!

Trinity at Tyler Lee