TodgeRodge

if so it better have a concrete plan of how to actually raise those funds (while paying for 50% of a stadium and having under 25K butts in the seats) or it will just be telling people with a clue something they already know

not to mention one guy had next to no light at the end of the tunnel for facilities and the other guy has a huge light of improved facilities shining right on him

while the WAC is obviously struggling now.....this is not the first time the WAC has taken a hit and gotten back up from it and how many coaches have moved up from the WAC for a better situation VS the number that have moved up from the Sunbelt as for the original question UNT fans are never going to want to have anything to do with programs they see as "lesser" than them they are too busy trying to tear down programs they see as only being "perceived" as better than them in a feigned attempt to get into a conference with those programs......of course never understanding how or why those teams and conferences view UNT the same way that UNT views TxState and UTSA my advice is do like the WAC and everyone else with some success has done and forget about UNT, forget about crying what conference or programs you are associated with, and build your program and take what that gives you and build more.....stop worrying what some other school or program or conference thinks of your program and just go and outperform them because UNT and UNT fans are an excellent example of what you get when you run around concerning yourself with who has "banned or boycotted" you from the conference you "deserve" to be in VideoEagle is a perfect example.....talking about all the years in "university level" and pretending that means anything when you were one of the programs that decided to DROP DOWN for a number of years, still did not do much of significance at the D1-AA level and then moved up and pretended that you had arrived when the reality is you had not done much before the drop down (if you had you would have not dropped down) and you have not done much since the move up the deal that everyone that has had little success forgets about a conference is that at the end of the season EVERY conference will have winners and losers no matter how weak or strong that conference is.....so winning even a weak conference over time catches the eyes of fans and TV and everyone else......this is one of the fallacies that could well kill upper division football if super conferences are ever formed.....because some formerly "super" team in that super conference is probably going to take the position of being the loser and over time one or several may take that position long term....that or fans will have to get used to 9-3 national champs it is also the fallacy of what is so often advocated on this forum of some type of new SWC with mostly Texas teams.....because at the end of the day several of those teams will still sift out to be the losers over the long term....and when the target market of the entire conference market is so small you have small interest in your top programs and you have even smaller interest in the bottom feeders....and all that equals small interest in that conference overall I will be the first to say that 120+ programs in D1-A is a joke, but thinking that shrinking it and THEN going with bigger conferences is even worse than what there is currently if I was doing what I felt was best for every program in Texas to have success I would move UTEP back to the MWC and replace them with LaTech, assuming UTSA and TxState move up I would place them in the WAC and I would have the Big 12 play a schedule of round robin -1 so they still keep 4 OOC games and I would do it in a way where the weakest program in the Big 12 avoids the top program in conference and on down the list of top and bottom finish.....the idea being then Baylor or ISU instead of getting a sure smashing in conference can hopefully schedule a more winnable game and build fan support through wins instead of through "hey Texas filled OUR stadium yet again" and schools like Texas can have yet another choice of a very winnable game OR if needed a stronger team than Baylor usually is then SMU, UH, and occasionally Rice could rotate trying to win CUSA, UTEP and TCU could rotate trying to win the MWC, UT and maybe TAMU and TTU could rotate trying to win the Big 12 (or rotate trying to get into a BCS game with only a single conference loss) and Baylor could try and schedule to win 4 OOC games or even 3 OOC games and then try and go .500 or better in conference and get into a bowl game to have something to end the season and UTSA and TxState could try and build momentum in their conference without competing in state with 6 other Texas teams and UNT can do what ever it is they do in the Belt no one on earth outside of Texas and a hell of a lot of people in Texas are not going to tune in to see a conference match up of a 2-6 Texas school taking on a 4-4 Texas based conference mate......maybe not a lot more people, but I am positive more people might tune in to see a 3-1 Texas school take on another 3-1 non-Texas school especially if those two teams got those 3 wins over their non-Texas schools it is one of the things I think has really hurt the PAC 10 over the last few years and made it hard for teams to get USC off the top.....you only have 3 games to build a rep for your conference before you head into conference play and every week half your teams are going to take a loss and drop in the polls......same thing with an all Texas or nearly all Texas conference....you have a couple of games before you get into a schedule of every week half the Texas teams are going to take a loss and people will look down on the whole thing....I would rather see Texas teams have the chance to take on others out of state and then fight it out right at thee end for all the marbles UTSA and TxState need to team up, forget about other Texas programs for the time being, build your program winning against anyone you can, and then take it to conference and try and be at or near the top of that conference as often as possible worrying what other Texas programs think of you or what they do in their conference, what facilities they have or don't have and how those compare to yours, and what the number of fans they have in the seats is nothing but a recipe for thinking you deserve something that other Texas programs are just flat not going to HAND you and nor should they

and the fact that the fan support was horrible even during the best run in UNTs last 3 decades or so and the horrible shape of the facilities had nothing to do with that

Does The Coaches Deserve Another Year? they done knot

did they already find his cat Fluffy I noticed the thread to help locate it was gone

he was in the "boof" calling a game

everyone does understand that Georgio does not keep a single dime of the money he is "paid" to do the games and I am about 99% positive he makes financial contributions over and above the money he gets "paid" and turns right back over to athletics if they don't know this they need to

I think so because I saw a thread about leach and UNT on htt://TotallyIgnorantFoolsThatWillBelieveAnything.org saying leach was interested

come back for the ages here!

this is where Todge shows us all what he can do

not sure I are gagree......in fact I think I are disgagreeing

and UNT has given a lot of verbal capacity counts.....and even put some on the web.....only to remove them later http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=unt+stadium+capacity&aq=f&aqi=g2g-o1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=ab5cdb1806fef4aa New Stadium at University of North Texas - What's New Jun 30, 2010 ... UNT stadium moving forward easy choice for Story of the Year ... The official proposal listed a seating capacity of 28000 seats, ... www.unt.edu/stadium/whats-new.htm - Cached - Similar and even then seating capacity, fans in the seats....really means nothing to anyone if the wins are not there.....and that is what UNT has a major issue with

UNT pays their fans to show up

let me know when any fan base would trade butts in the seats for wins on the field

let me know when your 28K seating capacity and 32K max capacity stadium gets 34,500 there for a game and just because something is new does not mean it is suddenly the nicest around

SMU had more wins last year than UNT has in several years SMU won the same amount of bowl games last year than UNT has in the last two decades (or than SMU had as well) but SMU will probably be in another bowl game this year and I would imagine they will win it SMU plays and beats better teams in a conference that UNT dreams of playing in SMU has a coach that has coached at every level of football and has proven success in the college ranks....UNT has a coach that is about to be let go and had some success (pretty impressive success) at a program that has been one of the strongest in Texas for a long time, but before that his coaching record was not that impressive SMU will still have a larger stadium and a stadium that is just as nice and probably nicer than the one UNT will have and the SMU stadium will be hosting a bowl game for the next 2 years at least so let us all know when that upside comes because until then SMU has something of substance and UNT has a bag of wishes and next years and attendance numbers I don't think anyone at SMU would trade places with UNT and their "upside" now or in the next decade

on scout UNT this year is currently tied for 98th in recruiting in 2010 they were #117 (out of 120) in 2009 UNT was #116 in 2008 UNT was #68 in 2007 UNT was #103 and UNT has suffered a large number of players leaving especially from those first two classes.....so not sure where the "we got talent" comes from it looks like it is a huge part coaching, a huge part recruiting, and a large part talent......when you are bad at all three and down in the 100s 3 out of 4 years in recruiting it is hard to say the talent is there

leach did not destroy the Tech football program, but he divided the fan base and was only ever concerned with himself and his ego and his "quirky" reputation and he had reached a level he was never going to get past in the 2008 season and 2009 was right back to typical leach and leach being unhappy so yes Texas Tech needed to clean house and they would have been better off not giving him the new contract in 2008 and letting him prove something in the remaining two years and even with a single bad season and an administration that had tried to undermine him in the past Tuberville still did more at AUBURN (he never was at Clemson as a head coach) than what Leach did at Texas Tech including winning a Cotton Bowl, winning the SEC, going undefeated, playing in, and winning a BCS bowl and having a team ranked in the top 10 twice leach never did any of that and he never would have which is why his act grew old the rest you pretty much have down and no

if he is here to stay why were there 20 for sale signs from every Realtor in Denton in his yard this morning

http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/research/2009_NCSE_Public_Tables_Endowment_Market_Values.pdf 389 University of North Texas TX 80,976 94,922 -14.7 390 Harding University AR 80,885 99,303 -18.5 391 Texas State University-San Marcos & Foundation TX 80,862 93,315 -13.3 what year did TxState "win win win"......what was mikes record when he coached there? Lamar University TX 67,699 63,075 7.3 what football record did Lamar have last year.....oh wait they did not play football last year.....they just restarted their program this year.......boy UNT better be glad they did not hire mike and all his financial giving prowess http://www.nacubo.org/documents/research/NES2008PublicTable-AllInstitutionsByFY08MarketValue.pdf 382 Texas State University-San Marcos and Foundation TX 93,314 82,539 13.1% 390 Angelo State University TX 90,386 85,566 5.6% 391 University of North Texas TX 89,967 89,498 0.5% so was mike the reason that Angelo joined the TTU system....is mike the reason that in the 07-08 reporting period Angelo had a larger endowment than UNT?.....UH-V does not seem to care that mike is gone now because they met with Tech officials to talk about leaving the UH system to join the TTU system after mike and his donors had left the building...and even though their flagship embarrassed mike and the TTU flagship just one year earlier maybe you are right UTSA with their coach that had a better overall record and more single seasons of success (except for one) only has a 47 million dollar endowment even with Coker.....although they have not played a down of football yet to flush out all those large football fan donors......but they will be closing in fast on UNT with any success at all http://www.txhighereddata.org/Interactive/Accountability/InteractiveGenerate.cfm Total Endowment ($ millions) (FY 2009) University of North Texas $85 Texas Tech University $389 University of Houston $441 The University of Texas at Arlington $54 The University of Texas at El Paso $134 The University of Texas at Dallas $195 The University of Texas at San Antonio $47 Texas State University-San Marcos $65 better hope UTD or UTEP does not scoop up mike before UNT does I believe the TxState is not counting their 20 million McCoy College of Business endowment foundation in this as well which would explain the almost exactly 20 million difference between these numbers and the NACUBO numbers....that ot Tx State needs some better financial managers because they would have taken an endowment % hit larger than any other university in the USA

and you are ignoring that OK state sucked for many of the years leach played them and TAMU is going through their worst string of football in several decades you are also ignoring that leach failed to get a #2 ranked team (with only two games left in the season) into a BCS game and leach failed to win the conference or sniff a BCS game one time in 10 years and even if Tuberville loses to UT next week he still has 9 more years to beat UT 2 times to equal the record against UT of the great mike leach......but that of course will not stop "leach fans" from pointing to that game as a reason that Tuberville is not an upgrade in coaching over leach......which he is......by a million miles......and the proof that many many more people believe that over the few foolish leach supporters is in the record number of season tickets (at the highest prices ever during a down economy) and the record amount of athletic donations to Tech in the last year in a down economy VS anything that was ever done while leach was at Tech 9 or more wins this year for Tuberville would equal anything leach ever did except for that single season and leach had 10 years to have that single season.....and the next year was right back to poor coaching, poor clock management, a loss to UH (because of coaching) and a typical leach season that probably would have ended with an Alamo Bowl loss to MSU if leach had been around to coach that game....and all that for #11 coaching money at 2.8 million per year.......I would take a pass on that in a heart beat for Tuberville

and to think that people that make the kind of money that is required to donate millions to a university at a single shot live or die and make or don't make donations based on what a football idiot does is to be smoking crack or to be believing that "fans" that want a change in administration at Tech because the football fool was sent packing actually carry any weight or have any influence over what happens at a university much less that they ever will Tech is about to announce a billion dollar campaign and they already have the video for it made and they are already through the (dreaded at UNT) silent phase of that campaign (and the campaign has actually already been discussed in the news in the past) so we will see what not having mike does for Texas Tech and their university financial support I imagine that Tech will actually get to 1.2 billion in the time frame they offer up for a 20% increase over what they have set their goal for I will not deny that having a winning program AND A PERSONABLE COACH LIKE TUBERVILLE (vs leach the geek) can make a difference in overall support and in the % of total alumni giving especially at the smaller levels, but it has ZERO to do with the donations that really move a university forward and that will be proven when Tech goes well beyond the billion dollar goal in the set time frame

but UNT currently has sunbelt level talent.....and mike liked to play sunbelt level teams (or worse) to open the season and get that "swagga" going.....UNT can't afford to bring those types of teams in with a sunbelt level budget which means mike would be playing better teams on the road to start the season to develop his "hang 70 on someone that SUCKS swagga" or mike would be "building fan support" by playing teams that are worse than the belt before playing those horrible belt teams......which really does not give you much "cred" with recruits and T-Shirt fans or with alumni eager to actually have something to talk about with their team hey we won 8 games......yea going 500 in the belt and playing 2 D1-AA teams a year and San Jose State.....that really develops support, "swagga", "cred" and fans again SMU was horrible and so was Baylor, but at least DD beat them one of the two times he played each of them.....and there was no "swagga" or "cred" for any of that even when he went on to win the belt 4 years in a row if you think leach and his circus act of coaching is going to come in and beat clemson on the road or any of the schools UNT has to play to have any decent competition on the schedule you are dreaming......and lsoing even close one to good teams is not how mike leach and mike leach teams develop their "swagga"

no Texas tech had deep pocketed donors long before mike that is why Tech was able to build their basket ball facility after United Food Stores donated a large amount of money that is why Tech was able to get a large donation to their college of business from a former engineering student and that same person also donated the money for the Rawls golf course (with mike having nothing to do with any of it) and that is why Tech was able to get SBC/ATT to donate a large amount of money for stadium improvements two different times and able to get ATT to donate a large amount of money to the college of engineering recently and to have another donor donate 15 million to the petroleum engineering department and the 78 million in donations including a single 50 million dollar donation to the El Paso medical school had nothing to do with mike as well which is why Texas Tech has just under 400 million for a university endowment and just under 700 million dollars for a system endowment (excluding Angelo state and their 90 million endowment (more than UNT)) VS the 81 million dollar endowment for UNT and the system as a whole because Texas Tech has had donors and supporters from long before mike leach ever stepped foot on the Tech campus